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Vannin

Breeding Broken

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Breeding animals with high animal husbandry skill is very broken. I first played this game in October 2011 and the main reason for breeding has always been 5 speed horses. The benefits of additional traits has really only come to light since WU but still it's the 5 speeds that people want. So how can it be so broken for someone with high animal husbandry? Speed traits are lost, negative traits are gained and colours seem to be somewhat random!

 

Here's four foals from my latest round of breeding. The parents traits are in spoilers.

 

This foal has 8 traits as expected, but 2 speed traits have been lost and "it has some illness" has been introduced. It's also come out gold from ebony black parents! Pretty sure mama horse has been a good girl .....

[15:51:27] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It is a tough bugger. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has some illness. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

[15:51:27] Its colour is gold.

Spoiler

Father - [20:06:26] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

Mother - [20:05:03] It has fleeter movement than normal. It is a tough bugger. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It has keen senses. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has been bred in captivity.

 

This foal has 8 traits, but lost a speed trait.

[19:58:40] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It has very strong leg muscles. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity. ]

Spoiler

Mother - [21:06:16] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

Father - [21:05:38] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

 

Due to the loss of speed trait this foal has become very unmotivated ....

[20:00:42] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It has very strong leg muscles. It has keen senses. It looks very unmotivated. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

Spoiler

Mother - [21:07:25] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

Father - [21:08:48] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

 

This foal has 8 traits, but lost a speed trait.

[19:56:32] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has keen senses. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

[19:57:12] Its colour is gold.

Spoiler

Mother - [21:01:50] It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It has keen senses. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

Father - [21:02:05] It will fight fiercely. It has fleeter movement than normal. It has a strong body. It has lightning movement. It can carry more than average. It has very strong leg muscles. It has keen senses. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It has been bred in captivity.

 

5 more foals were born from ebony black parents, came out 5 speed, but 2 are grey and 1 is a blood bay.

 

I keep animal ratio on deed between 16 and 19.

 

Now to the uninitiated this may not look too bad, but when someone with much lower animal husbandry skill (meaning they are capped to 5 traits) can churn out pure 5 speeds far more succesfully than some with 90 skill can then it is BROKEN.

 

As an aside I've been breeding a few unicorns for a couple of years, as they're always born with 8 traits I've not yet got a 5 speed from probably 40 foals. :blink: Also, what's the point of a 5 speed sheep. :D

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When I got 50 Animal Husbandry I stopped grooming animals and did all I could to avoid more skillgain.

 

It's bizarre that having higher skill penalises you in this way.

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Even more so, I have 67 AH, and keep breeding stock to ALL five speed traits plus USH. Lately I've been getting fight fiercely and keen senses instead of one of the speed traits. Neither of the parents have those traits. 

 

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The colours aren't really random they just have like an hierarchy where dominant ones will never produce anything below them combined with horses being able to have several colours bred into a single one which can potentially give them a disposition for certain other colours

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Some people have done an amazing amount of work showing all the stats involved and how the numbers play out.

 

Your 4 foals are not a statisticslly significant example of this, however.

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1 hour ago, Wulvarik said:

Some people have done an amazing amount of work showing all the stats involved and how the numbers play out.

 

Your 4 foals are not a statisticslly significant example of this, however.

Indeed they have and it all points to the problems that need to be addressed.

 

Thanks for you attempt to belittle me though, Much appreciated.

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You don't convince anybody that the dice are rigged by saying that you didn't roll a 6.

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10 minutes ago, Wulvarik said:

You don't convince anybody that the dice are rigged by saying that you didn't roll a 6.

 

 

Breeding animals at high skill should not be rolling a dice and hoping to hit the lucky number. it should be consistent - if 4 foals in a batch have LOST traits and gained random, bad traits, something's not working right.

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*rant*

I agree something has changed.  I used to be able at 51AH breed 2x 5 speed horses and 50% of the time get a 5 speed foul and never bad traits.  Now I keep getting jacked up horses with bad traits from 5 speed parents I have to kill.  Thought it was deed ratio so moved all horses under 5 speed to an off-deed pen and still can't breed another 5 speed horse for couple months.

 

I don't know if this is a real issue.  I haven't been doing well playing craps at the casino either.

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Bumping this post because this is a real issue and honestly needs to be addressed. Awen has been a Breeder on Deliverance for years now  (80.46 AH). Even with a Huge deed (99x65) and deed ratios normally around 20 we still have a problem of getting only 7 trait horses, 3-speed horses with negative traits, horses with inconsistent colors, and so forth. If necessary, I have a chart that I use to track all our animals and will be willing to create a history to help the developers see the long-term issues the Higher level breeders are having.

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Am following out of interest as I don't know if this is broken or intended, was always told once you hit 60ah it gets harder and weirder to breed successfully etc. True for me too, all of the  above, the one that gets me the most is two parents same color churning out every other color instead, very frustrating, especially with ebonies. Otherwise any bad are removed with genesis, and anything under 5 speed goes in my freebie pen, but I'm not seeming to have a lot of problem getting five speeds, its just the sixth trait for me now that is unreliable and at least half the time a bad trait.

 

If this is not intended, i.e. breeding goes insane after level 60, then yeah we need devs to fix it please!

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I hope for the sake of you breeders out there that this gets seen to one day, but for me it's now irrelevant. o/

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Bump, could someone please take a minute just to tell us whether all this  heartache is a problem or actually intended?

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On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:48 PM, Tilda said:

Bump, could someone please take a minute just to tell us whether all this  heartache is a problem or actually intended?

 

I think intended or a problem, this is still a huge problem and needs fixed. It's odd getting higher animal husbandry gives you worse results. Very odd that people need to stop training animal husbandry at level 50 in order to get breeding to work nicely. I continued training my animal husbandry past level 50. Now I did not collect statistics, but I do notice that most of my new horses are glue, got negative traits.

 

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 5:27 PM, Vannin said:

Breeding animals with high animal husbandry skill is very broken.

 

Thanks post this thread.

 

TeeeBOMB

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I don't think there's a bug here per se, but some design problems, some of which could be resolved by the addition of more positive traits that people actually care about. Being able to get 6+ traits on a horse would be a positive thing if there weren't only 5 that matter to you.

Edited by Ostentatio

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Bump again, it would still be nice to get an official comment on this. At this point horse colors have no meaning at all. I usually keep 2 breeding pairs of each color, 3 for ebony, but it makes no difference what colors you breed together, the resulting foals seem completely random colored. This is NOT just for toons with over 60 AH either, my alt has slightly under 50 AH and when she took a breeding round she got the same screwed up results on colors. Might as well just keep and breed some old plain grey horses, get the same sort of results in foals :D

 

This can't be right, and is not the way it has been in past so something changed in breeding other than my toons going over 60.

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There seem to be more than one issue here.

On the behavior at 60+ AH, concerning 5-speeds, this report is related:

 

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Breeding seems to have gotten completely ridiculous now.  Upon my return after a few months off, I decided to get my animal breeding program up and running again (have 71 AH). So far I'm 0 for 12 on breeding 5 speed champ unicorns. Every baby has been a 4 speed with at least one bad trait. I'm 0 for 6 breeding champ doggies, everyone has been a runt (normal size dog).  I'm 3 for 8 breeding 5 speed hellhorses (4 speeders with bad trait). And lastly 2 for 10 breeding 5 speed greenish unicorns (4 speeders with bad trait or regular unicorn).  That adds up to 5 for 36, a grand total of 13.888% success rate. Please tell me again why I skilled up AH to 70+. 

Oh yes, am 0 for 3 on 5 speed black sheep as well.  New total success rate = 12.8%   :(

 

 

Edit: and 4 for 17 on breeding 5 speed bison (4 speeders with bad trait)

 

Edit 2 : 1 for 4 on the five speed black sheep. oh glorious day

Edited by Gumbo
to add an edit

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I know for a fact that champ doggies are tough to breed, just ask Attenia about the stress she had in breeding them once we secured a valid vulnerable female, a few of them actually and it was a long time before she got results.

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I've been breeding champ doggies for about 5 years. In that time I'd say I've had around a 60 - 70% success rate when it comes to getting a champ or a runt.

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