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Gladiator

Light of Fo OP

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This is a serious disruption to pvp which allows for already one sided battles to be even more one sided.

 

I'm not buying this with the evidence presented thus far. What I actually see is a disruption to the way you all are used to doing business: which is whale away at enemy heads.

 

If, however, you all go into combat with targeting assignments for your focus squads (player 1 always attacks right, 2 attacks left, 3 attacks high, 4 attacks low, 5 attacks center), then you spread your wounds around (without wasting time in combat switching up). That's at least 10 individual wounds (and clearly there's still a chance for more). Additionally, if you're using poison weapons, then you're stacking at least 15 wounds. LoF can only heal 5 of them. That's really OP?

 

Of course, if you all just stubbornly stick to targeting the head, then yeah, LoF healing the 3 wounds you all are stacking will be bad. :P

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LoF in pvp sucks so much, no idea how it works now since i not tested it out but by the sounds of it is even more powerful.

Why not remove the spell on pvp servers and let the Freedom people keep it so they can heal when they fall down the stairs in their castles and scrape their knees...

Edited by Meep

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

I'm not buying this with the evidence presented thus far. What I actually see is a disruption to the way you all are used to doing business: which is whale away at enemy heads.

Have you ever been in a fight where your enemies do 10 LoFs for the full duration of the skirmish ? I dont think you ever fought anyone actually. What evidence do you want? We just explained exactly why and how this affects PVP and you want more? What do you want?

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

If, however, you all go into combat with targeting assignments for your focus squads (player 1 always attacks right, 2 attacks left, 3 attacks high, 4 attacks low, 5 attacks center), then you spread your wounds around (without wasting time in combat switching up). That's at least 10 individual wounds (and clearly there's still a chance for more). Additionally, if you're using poison weapons, then you're stacking at least 15 wounds. LoF can only heal 5 of them. That's really OP?

If, however, we all go into combat with targeting assignments for our focus squads( player 1 always attacks right ,2 left 3 high 4 low 5 center) we would never catch the guy running away from us because one targetting the legs is not enough, we would never kill the champion because you need multiple people attacking his head because he is really tanky. LoF does heal 5 wounds, but they just made those wounds fewer and bigger, which means MORE will be healed . It was overpowered to begin with. What more evidence do you need? Also the poison weapons are bad, they only deal 87.5% of the damage, NOONE will use them

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

Why do you need to turn this into a pvp vs pve argument? The only reason you'd need lof on Freedom is during Rifts so people can be lazy. The real influential use of the spell is on pvp servers. Besides, we are not asking for the spell to be nerfed. We are pointing out this change negatively completely throws off the little balance pvp combat has.

 

This is a serious disruption to pvp which allows for already one sided battles to be even more one sided. Where a group without lof before had little chance of survival, they now have no chance. Leaving things the way they are have no effect on your chosen gameplay style. Why are you complaining?

 

How is it a "PvP vs PvE" arguement to say that folks who play PvE really wouldn't want to see a LoF nerf come in?  Take the soapbox elsewhere.

 

I've seen a lot of "LoF is OP" in this thread, that seems like a pretty good pointer to folks asking for a nerf.  I might be wrong, I might be right.  I'd rather get a word in edgeways before I see a patch saying "LoF healing reduced".

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

I'm not buying this with the evidence presented thus far

 

This topic wasnt made to explain to freedom players how pvp works, or to convince anybody to anything so if you dont get it please stop the offtop. You really think you're gonna change the way pvp worked for years? We're addresing a current problem, if you have any new suggestions about how the pvp shoud look like, there's a forum for that.

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6 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

I've seen a lot of "LoF is OP" in this thread, that seems like a pretty good pointer to folks asking for a nerf.  I might be wrong, I might be right.  I'd rather get a word in edgeways before I see a patch saying "LoF healing reduced".

Why fix a problem making other problems though? They changed something, why not change that something back because it doesn't help at all, nobody, not PVE not PVP, that wound stacking thing, literally useless. 

Also, you can rift on a 70fs lowend no meditation no strength no nothing character, you just need an LT weapon... It's the easiest thing i ever did, i know people that rift with 4 characters at once, do you think they need LoF to stay alive? No  they don't its a mindless experience.

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10 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Have you ever been in a fight where your enemies do 10 LoFs for the full duration of the skirmish ? I dont think you ever fought anyone actually. What evidence do you want? We just explained exactly why and how this affects PVP and you want more? What do you want?

 

Have you actually tested the changes?

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Just now, Roccandil said:

Have you actually tested the changes?

yes.

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1 minute ago, Roccandil said:

 

Have you actually tested the changes?


Of course we did. Why wouldnt we? It affects all of us directly

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7 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Why fix a problem making other problems though? They changed something, why not change that something back because it doesn't help at all, nobody, not PVE not PVP, that wound stacking thing, literally useless. 

Also, you can rift on a 70fs lowend no meditation no strength no nothing character, you just need an LT weapon... It's the easiest thing i ever did, i know people that rift with 4 characters at once, do you think they need LoF to stay alive? No  they don't its a mindless experience.

Honestly?  If they changed it back, I would have no issues ^_^

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3 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

yes.

 

You tested spreading out wounds with and without poison weapons? I see at least the following base scenarios:

 

1) Everyone attacks the head with non-poison weapons, with one LoF at (say) 50% damage

2) Everyone attacks the head with poison weapons, with one LoF at 50% damage

3) Everyone attacks a different area with non-poison weapons, with one LoF at 50% damage

4) Everyone attacks a different area with poison weapons, with one LoF at 50% damage

 

Do it a bunch of times; compare the results (and throw in champs/non-champs if you want). If you already have that data, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it.

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1 minute ago, Etherdrifter said:

Honestly?  If they changed it back, I would have no issues

So you have an issue if they nerf LoF? Do tell, why so? I mean, im curious. What is the usability of this spell on freedom? Do you cast it everyday when you're fighting the troll you two shot with your rare adamantine huge axe? Do you need it fighting the mobs at the rift that deal barely any damage and people will hold them off for ages for you to bandage? Oh yea, you want to AFK at rifts thats the thing. Well at least ur having fun not playing the game.

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3 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

You tested spreading out wounds with and without poison weapons? I see at least the following base scenarios:

 

1) Everyone attacks the head with non-poison weapons, with one LoF at (say) 50% damage

2) Everyone attacks the head with poison weapons, with one LoF at 50% damage

3) Everyone attacks a different area with non-poison weapons, with one LoF at 50% damage

4) Everyone attacks a different area with poison weapons, with one LoF at 50% damage

 

Do it a bunch of times; compare the results (and throw in champs/non-champs if you want). If you already have that data, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it.

 There is absolutely no point in doing so. We tested the number of wounds a person gets from fighting against a frostbrand weapon. They get WAY LESS wounds. Let me put it straight. The number of wounds is smaller but the wounds are bigger. Light of fo heals for more HP because of this. It's simple math. And i mentioned why the poison weapons are useless 

 

27 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Also the poison weapons are bad, they only deal 87.5% of the damage

Why would i use a weapon worse than iron?

Think about it logically for one second. Please.

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4 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

 There is absolutely no point in doing so. We tested the number of wounds a person gets from fighting against a frostbrand weapon. They get WAY LESS wounds. Let me put it straight. The number of wounds is smaller but the wounds are bigger. Light of fo heals for more HP because of this. It's simple math. And i mentioned why the poison weapons are useless 

 

Why would i use a weapon worse than iron?

Think about it logically for one second. Please.

 

So, you didn't really test. :P

 

Consider this:

 

- Right now you're claiming that there is only One True Way: target head for damage, and legs if needed to hinder movement;

- This patch introduces changes that diminish the effectiveness of your One True Way;

- You clamor to effectively eliminate yet another PvP game mechanic: LoF, so that your One True Way can be maintained.

 

Being lazy and wanting PvP to be easy appears to be a real problem! :P

 

Instead of eliminating choices, however, let's -add- them. Let's -make- it viable to target other body parts. So, poison weapons: sure, they do less raw damage than iron, but when used to spread out wounds, I see a real potential of them doing more NET damage AFTER a LoF cast. (And if they don't, then I'd balance them to do so.)

 

LT weapons and PoL "Healing Hands" should also be PvP-viable choices. Again, this patch is a step in that direction.

 

So, these changes are good, even if they do buff LoF. The real problem is that you all want to solve OPness by eliminating choice, rather than increasing it, and that's bad for the game.

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I feel LOF has been a bit of a let down lately tbh. 

I wanna see this change in action before we cry for patches. 

Also LOF isn't able to be used until faith unless you link

Edited by Mclavin
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1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

Have you ever been in a fight where your enemies do 10 LoFs for the full duration of the skirmish ? I dont think you ever fought anyone actually. What evidence do you want? We just explained exactly why and how this affects PVP and you want more? What do you want?


that your team fault for not take the priest down first...

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1 hour ago, Vomusu said:

 

This topic wasnt made to explain to freedom players how pvp works, or to convince anybody to anything so if you dont get it please stop the offtop. You really think you're gonna change the way pvp worked for years? We're addresing a current problem, if you have any new suggestions about how the pvp shoud look like, there's a forum for that.

Roc isn't a Freedom player, he plays on Epic full time. He has been in fights with LoF used however as far as I know not in a 30+ player battle yet.

 

Doesn't make his opinions any less relevant.

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11 hours ago, Nappy said:

Roc isn't a Freedom player, he plays on Epic full time. He has been in fights with LoF used however as far as I know not in a 30+ player battle yet.

 

Doesn't make his opinions any less relevant.


Well the freedom part was more towards the previous posts, "or to convince anybody to anything" was meant for Roc. I didnt want to belittle his achievements, just wanted to get an answer on the wounds stacking and people started the offtop. This is a post about FB stacking not about opinions on PVP.

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17 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Why would you need LoF on freedom???

 

Because IT'S HOW WE FRIGGIN LIKE TO PLAY THE GAME.

 

If you get your nerf (PvP complains A LOT about the combat system but you hate any and all changes to it and inevitably demand nerfs that affect the PvE side, taming still being the prime example here), which, why not, it's a PvP thing, what exactly is your problem with a code-split being implemented on that spell so that it remains unchanged in PvE?

 

No, really, give ONE good reason as to why the code shouldn't be split into "PvP LoF" and "PvE LoF"? ONE

 

"PvP combat is dull and boring and needs improving"

"A bug was fixed, you need to vary your hits a bit more instead of AFK aiming for the head"

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" 

Good grief... 

Edited by Mordraug
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49 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

 

Because IT'S HOW WE FRIGGIN LIKE TO PLAY THE GAME.

 

If you get your nerf (PvP complains A LOT about the combat system but you hate any and all changes to it and inevitably demand nerfs that affect the PvE side, taming still being the prime example here), which, why not, it's a PvP thing, what exactly is your problem with a code-split being implemented on that spell so that it remains unchanged in PvE?

 

No, really, give ONE good reason as to why the code shouldn't be split into "PvP LoF" and "PvE LoF"? ONE

 

"PvP combat is dull and boring and needs improving"

"A bug was fixed, you need to vary your hits a bit more instead of AFK aiming for the head"

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" 

Good grief... 

I like this guy. He is always calm and seems to like PVP.

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If changes come into effect I would like the option to ask for my money back for the Fo priest I just premmed for a year.

 

Edit: On Freedom it is used at rifts, dragon and unique fights. Fun times.

Edited by Fairyshine

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5 minutes ago, Fairyshine said:

If changes come into effect I would like the option to ask for my money back for the Fo priest I just premmed for a year.

 

Edit: On Freedom it is used at rifts, dragon and unique fights. Fun times.

 

So you premmed a FO priest for a year because of the FB wounds stacking? I dont see the connection here. Even if they revert it back, it doesnt affect any priest at all, what are you talking about?

 

Only people talking about nerfing LoF are freedomers, and the mad guy 2 posts up.

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20 minutes ago, Vomusu said:

 

So you premmed a FO priest for a year because of the FB wounds stacking? I dont see the connection here. Even if they revert it back, it doesnt affect any priest at all, what are you talking about?

 

Only people talking about nerfing LoF are freedomers, and the mad guy 2 posts up.

 

Pretty much premmed a Fo priest for the LoF at weekly rifts (which is great fun and gets me logging in almost every time I can possibly attend, i.e. worth a premmed char), and whenever unique fights fall within a time Aussies can attend.  Other stuff?  We can charm using a rune now and all my mailboxes are couriered to a level of almost instant transfer...and getting any enchant on a weap would be much cheaper to pay another priest to do the once off task.  I only ever use one weapon, it is not as if it is a weekly thing. 

 

Nerfing LoF would probably see me not need or want to prem the Fo again.

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Some lof is better than no lof, you'll be fine kid

 

Remember lof use to have no resistance

Edited by Mclavin

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35 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Some lof is better than no lof, you'll be fine kid

 

Remember lof use to have no resistance

...so was nerfed already.

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