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madnezz

Terraforming Balance

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 You can terraform dirt up and down easy as pie, you can surface mine to lower a rock level in and out of mines with the swing of a pickaxe but when it comes to fixing a mine by raising it or adjusting a rock surface while retaining a certain slope above water its almost like its a crime.  You are allowed to have concrete, you are allowed to have as much concrete as you want, you are allowed to raise any tile to a certain slope outside of deeds where you don't have permission, why the harsh creation process still?

 

Starting from scratch with newbie starter tools:

 

To raise a corner with dirt requires 2 actions, dig up dirt from another place and drop it in the corner you wish to raise if the slope is under 40. 

 

To use the campfire method it takes a minimum of 11 actions to make 1 concrete

(assuming no fails requiring you to get more material). 

 

  • Chop down a tree, chop up to get log, make 2 kindling, make 2 campfires, wait and gather ash, dig 1 clay, dig 1 sand, make mortar, make lye, and finally make 1 concrete to raise 1 corner by 1 slope.

 

Can you fix this imbalance to terraforming in a game based on terraforming?  Concrete creation should be 3 actions.

 

 

Edited by madnezz

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+1

 

concrete sucks if you need to mass produce this stuff, even a simple tunnel can end up with holes into the water table due to low ceilings that takes dozens of concrete to fix

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mortar+rock shard, 5 actions and still uses nat subs, dunno why some people are so adamant that it must keep using lye to add value to nat subs or some junk like that

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Have to agree with this, 3 to 5 actions seems like plenty and have never really understood the reasoning behind the difference in difficulty involved between raising a dirt tile and raising a rocktile, in a cave or not.

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In a cave to make a building I once had to use 80 concrete to raise the floor out of the water, then another 40 concrete above ground so I could raise the ceiling below ground, this took quite a bit of effort to simply fix a single tile, if you had to do this on a large scale it quite simply would not be worth the effort.

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Crazy to think how nothing to sea here was made on the  current concrete making method, madness indeed, +1

 

If this guy says it needs changing, nobody can argue lol

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-1

they just added back in forges and ovens giving ash so instead of looking at it in 1 of the most inefficient ways of producing it look at the most efficient way and you see how simple it is

if you dont want to make it because its too long or difficult then maybe find a different game might i suggest minecraft?

or you know pay people to make it for you like we do with everything else we dont want to make

most efficient method right now

tree+axe 2-3 times over to chop down tree = 3 actions
chop up felled tree into 1 log min to turn into kindling =2 actions
light forge make sure forge is lit for 30 min then empty it with shovel and there you go ash = 2 actions
gather water = 1 action
ash+water = lye = 1 action
dig 1 sand dig 1 clay and combine for mortar = 3 actions
combine lye+mortar tada concrete = 2 actions

total 14 actions

now we never create it like that so going of the fact that all of us have woodscrap laying around we turn the first 5 into 1 action

10 actions

we already tend to have water laying around so thats 1 less

 

9 actions

so realistically if you sit down and make a lot of concrete to level out a mine(like i am doing right now) you mass make it and it really isnt that hard

its easier to make 3k concrete then it is making a boat it really isnt that hard

now a great way to look at this is this: why make an "end game" / "late game" item easy to get?

 



i rather see the ability to bulk make concrete then make it easier to make individual ones
so make it so that a stack of mortar can be used of the container containing the lye has enough lye in it that way you dont get as annoyed at the 1 at a time process

 

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I'm not saying i'm against this, but most of the OP info are biased, and that must be pointed out.

-Chop down a tree, chop up to get log, make 2 kindling,
Kindlings can be made directy from wood scraps, most people have too many of them to even count.
make 2 campfires wait and gather ash
This isn't the most productive way of creating ash by far, it's both a byproduct of coalmaking and you also can get 3 ash from 1 kindling 
dig 1 clay, dig 1 sand,
You only need 1 sand and 10 clay to create 20 mortar, also less than 1 mortar is required for 1 concrete
make lye
You can create 64kg at once.



I'm too lazy to do the math, but creating concrete with an optzimized method is harly more than 500 action for 100 concrete.

Edited by Davih

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Ok, i did the math for 1000 concrete
1500kg mortar (750mortar) and 1500kg lye (1500 ash)
--------------------------------
what we need :
500 kindlings (500 actions from wood scraps)
500 furnaces lit + cleaning = (1000 actions ) (let's say 2000 actions cause cleaning forges is slow and i'm counting that action as 3 actions.)
making lye = 33 small barrels, 33 filling and 33 creations (66 actions)
digging sand = 38 sand (38 actions)
digging clay = 380 clay (380 actions)
making mortar = (750 actions)
making concrete = (1000 actions)

Total 500+2000+66+38+380+750+1000 = 4734 actions for 1000 concrete.

----------------------------
I don't think the problem is in making concrete, the problem is how much you actually need to fix some serious cave problems.
It can easily go from needing 10 of them to needing thousands if you realize you messed up too late (as i did, i just used 450 concrete to fix the result of a slight negligence on my cave)

Edited by Davih

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My example is very specific to starting from scratch, of course you can extrapolate the numbers and add advanced methods with pre-fab materials but that is not the point I am making. 

 

Let's keep it simple so you can follow along.  Say you just came back to the game, you are somewhere in the wilds of Xanadu and you only have basic tools in your inventory, you are alone on the server with no ready made materials laying around and you need to make some concrete to fix your mine or raise the rock layer to make a nice boat entrance, 11 actions is the minimum amount of actions you can do with your tools at hand and sufficient skills to make 1 concrete.  Compare that to fixing a slope with dirt which is 2 actions, dig up elsewhere and drop on corner you want to raise.  That's the only point I am trying to make.  11 vs 2 to basically do the same thing just on a different surface is unbalanced.

Edited by madnezz

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if i came back to the game after being gone for how ever long it took for everything to disappear and be left with no wood scraps and only my tools(not even going towards the basic tools) my first priority will be a house and fences for animals and farms and thus wood scraps are around again

like i said before make it so that we can create concrete in bulk like we can with lye for example would be something i can get behind

but comparing a early game mechanic to something that is supposed to require work(creating a mixture of materials to fix something) is just silly

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Where is it written that its supposed to require 5.5 times as much work? 

 

I guess I wasn't clear enough, I am comparing apples to apples and summarizing the absolute minimum amount of actions to raise a corner with concrete vs dirt.  11 actions vs 2 is unbalanced.  I wouldn't mind if they kept the current recipe for the masochists who think wurm should be hard and tedious but there should also be a 3-4 action recipe for the sake of balance.  What is the problem with reducing the amount of actions, an abundance of concrete?  Also take note, I am not even asking that the skills and the amount of those skills be changed, just the amount of required actions to raise a rock tile.

Edited by madnezz

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hence my allow bulk creation of concrete to create  entire stacks at once as we can do that with lye

so why not this let concrete and mortar be made at stacks at a time? that should cut down actions required with quite a lot if you wanna go bulk concrete yet still not make it that easy to get on everything?

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A simple fix for this would be to change the weight of concrete from 3kg's to 1kg and on creation instead of the 3kg you get now you will now have 3x1kg each creation.

 

 

If the dev's think this is making things too easy and still need some form of complication, rename it from concrete to cement and add the requirement of having rock shards in your inventory when you go to apply the cement to raise the rock, each raise action takes 1 cement and 1 rock shard to accomplish the task.

 

 

Edited by JakeRivers

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Best most brazen suggestion to raise mine floors: Activate a rock shard, target corner, select raise. I raise per each shard. Timer= 3.0 seconds. Done!

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
Ha!

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1 hour ago, Ayes said:

Best most brazen suggestion to raise mine floors: Activate a rock shard, target corner, select raise. I raise per each shard. Timer= 3.0 seconds. Done!

 

=Ayes=

you are a madman +1

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6 hours ago, Ayes said:

Best most brazen suggestion to raise mine floors: Activate a rock shard, target corner, select raise. I raise per each shard. Timer= 3.0 seconds. Done!

 

=Ayes=

 

how about this but if you raise a tile like this it will show as a rubble ( or other name) tile. and after its flat you need 1 concrete to smooth the tile and turn it back into a normal floor tile. while its a rubble tile it slows you down.

 

 

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20 hours ago, elroth said:

 

how about this but if you raise a tile like this it will show as a rubble ( or other name) tile. and after its flat you need 1 concrete to smooth the tile and turn it back into a normal floor tile. while its a rubble tile it slows you down.

 

 

I am starting to really like this idea. Fast filling of the corner but additional work to make it useable.

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It needs to work for both in and out of caves.  So you get a marsh like speed on the unfinished rubble and regular speed on rock with the smooth concreted surface.

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