Neville

The Wurm Online Market Overall

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19 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

Truth is, that without new players boom, fixing economy seing it's actual state, is beyond repairation. (A few players that comes every month isn't nearly enough)

 

The really tragic truth is that, even if there is an influx of new players, you're not going to see market recovery.

It would take the kind of boom that only a new mmorpg gets to push wurm back up to the numbers needed to sustain its economy in the current form.

Changes to the economy are likely to be detrimental to QoL, which empties the already low player bank.

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28 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

The really tragic truth is that, even if there is an influx of new players, you're not going to see market recovery.

It would take the kind of boom that only a new mmorpg gets to push wurm back up to the numbers needed to sustain its economy in the current form.

Changes to the economy are likely to be detrimental to QoL, which empties the already low player bank.

This is right. We can't expect even a thousand players boom, so regardless of anything we do or talk about, market and economy will sooner or later, most likely sooner go to the dirt. 

I only fear, that it'll be equal to even greater player drop. Many will loose their interest and satisfaction. 
What we think and what we're discussing here about repairing economy is irrelevant. Most sense would make a discussion about bringing more players to the game. Brainstorm like consideration of what we, as players, can do to cause another player boom. If there's any chance for that, which is very unlikely, but, never say never. 

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Decay is not going to fix any market problems in this game, everything is reimped so easily with so many high accounts. what we need is item durability, like in minecraft.
 
In short:
 
-> Remove enchant decay on items
-> Put a maximum usage on items (lets say, 5k, 10k, and double, triple for rare supreme) actions before the said item gets destroyed.
Pickaxes for example, destroyed after 10k actions
Meditation rugs, 1k actions
etc.
 
This will create a market for:
 
Tools that need to be remade
Enchants that need to be recast
 
What this means:
 
Nobody wants this, everyone wants to make an item once and keep it forever and re-imp it once every 6 months. (killing the market)
 
Wurm needs it. But is it really possible with all the old players being against this?

 

-

 

Boats:

 

made once, never destroyed. How many boats do actually decay away?

 

Boats needs to have durability, based on the amount of kilometers they're used. Big boats higher durability obviously, perhaps increasing QL To lose less durability per k/m but still an amount that makes it so they're replaced every once in a while.

Edited by whykillme

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Why not introduce the old skill decay system if an account is no longer premium for skills above 70 unless used? This was in the game a long time ago, but as people say old accounts simply get passed around and left inactive for periods but never leave the game. It'll ensure Wurm retains players with premium costs to prevent skill decay, and those who don't will reduce the high skilled accounts exisiting in Wurm so you can't do everything.

 

Another idea is limiting the number of skills above 70/80/90 you can have if we don't remove skill decay? Meaning accounts must be specified for a role/task and can no longer be a JOAT with 90+ in all skills?
 

The issue with the market isn't the items directly, but the accounts around to make the items surely?

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I'd really be interested in a number of premium accounts vs skill points graph for WO. I'd wager a bet that is is NOT the usual Gaussian curve you have in that kind of graphs.

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forced limits on item usage, or forced skill limits, or forced skill decay in any form will see many of the remaining players leave, surely.  especially when they can get mad enough to play wurm unlimited that they buy for a dollar when humble bundle has it and play forever on their own terms

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6 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

forced limits on item usage, or forced skill limits, or forced skill decay in any form will see many of the remaining players leave, surely.  especially when they can get mad enough to play wurm unlimited that they buy for a dollar when humble bundle has it and play forever on their own terms

Fair, but do you have anything to add to the suggestion pot?

 

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7 hours ago, whykillme said:

Decay is not going to fix any market problems in this game, everything is reimped so easily with so many high accounts. what we need is item durability, like in minecraft.
 
In short:
 
-> Remove enchant decay on items
-> Put a maximum usage on items (lets say, 5k, 10k, and double, triple for rare supreme) actions before the said item gets destroyed.
Pickaxes for example, destroyed after 10k actions
Meditation rugs, 1k actions
etc.

 

I like this idea, but I think I would add a spell to bring back 0 durability items.  It needs to be stupidly expensive to cast it, for those who want to keep their rares or better.  They can decide if its worth the price of the spell to bring it back.

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On 4/30/2018 at 3:15 PM, Ascorbic said:

 

I like this idea, but I think I would add a spell to bring back 0 durability items.  It needs to be stupidly expensive to cast it, for those who want to keep their rares or better.  They can decide if its worth the price of the spell to bring it back.

I gotta agree, let us not forget that while they may be pixels to some people, almost every item I ever owned I made myself, ripped out of someones dead hands, or has a great deal of sentimental value due to age.

 

Edited by FranktheTank

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8 hours ago, whykillme said:

Decay is not going to fix any market problems in this game, everything is reimped so easily with so many high accounts. what we need is item durability, like in minecraft.
 
In short:
 
-> Remove enchant decay on items
-> Put a maximum usage on items (lets say, 5k, 10k, and double, triple for rare supreme) actions before the said item gets destroyed.
Pickaxes for example, destroyed after 10k actions
Meditation rugs, 1k actions
etc.
 
This will create a market for:
 
Tools that need to be remade
Enchants that need to be recast
 
What this means:
 
Nobody wants this, everyone wants to make an item once and keep it forever and re-imp it once every 6 months. (killing the market)
 
Wurm needs it. But is it really possible with all the old players being against this?

 

-

 

Boats:

 

made once, never destroyed. How many boats do actually decay away?

 

Boats needs to have durability, based on the amount of kilometers they're used. Big boats higher durability obviously, perhaps increasing QL To lose less durability per k/m but still an amount that makes it so they're replaced every once in a while.

Interesting ideas WKM but I feel having all items destroyed after a certain amount of time is just going to piss people off and make less players. 

 

We need new systems similar to runes that would get people to replace items more or imped more. Example, have a buff that can be applied to a item that has a chance to make the tool take 10x damage, but make the QL rise 10x faster. Another one could be The QL of the tool will lower by 2 points every action; the item will eventually get destroyed but transfer rarity to the new item. Developers need to be clever, if they really want to tackle these issues. 

 

I still think disenchanting common/rares/supremes (more dust/higher grade dust - per QL/rarity) to give us a new reagent/dust that could be used to make a new tier of weapon/tool is simply the best fix period. People talked about expansions in other games, you get a new reagent to make stuff with. The market is reborn. 

 

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forcing decay, destruction and loss of skills will mean a short lived uptick in sales maybe, but then new players and mid game have even less to look forward too. items dying, casts dying and skills too maybe. all things they cant make themselves and so they will need more money to have these things. another reason to not play this game.

Please, stop trying to make the game work for the high end accounts to have a market, make the game interesting for people to join in and keep playing

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, elroth said:

Please, stop trying to make the game work for the high end accounts to have a market, make the game interesting for people to join in and keep playing

 

 

This exactly. Let the market fall where it will and worry about game play.

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Funcionaria agregar un nuevo idioma y aparecerán nuevos jugadores deseosos de ver como es. Para mi que soy de Argentina es difícil de por si el chat para comunicarme, a eso agrégale la interfaz en ingles y no cualquiera se acerca. si la interfaz seria en español ya tienes medio continente como posible "cliente". yo lo encontré buscando juego de comerciar por Steam y como no podía pagar el unimited me vine a este y aunque sea un poco viejo cubre mucho mis expectativas(no saben lo difícil que es encontrar un juego con un sistemas de habilidades ta complejo y a la ves con sentido a mi parecer) pero el idioma de la interfaz solo en ingles aleja a cualquier jugador que no tenga un nivel medio o ganas para usar el traductor.

 

 

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1 minute ago, leandro said:

Funcionaria agregar un nuevo idioma y aparecerán nuevos jugadores deseosos de ver como es. Para mi que soy de Argentina es difícil de por si el chat para comunicarme, a eso agrégale la interfaz en ingles y no cualquiera se acerca. si la interfaz seria en español ya tienes medio continente como posible "cliente". yo lo encontré buscando juego de comerciar por Steam y como no podía pagar el unimited me vine a este y aunque sea un poco viejo cubre mucho mis expectativas(no saben lo difícil que es encontrar un juego con un sistemas de habilidades ta complejo y a la ves con sentido a mi parecer) pero el idioma de la interfaz solo en ingles aleja a cualquier jugador que no tenga un nivel medio o ganas para usar el traductor.

 

 

Your only option really is to find a Spanish speaking village on wurm or a spanish server on Wurm Unlimited. The official language of the forums is english as well as the game. But I get what you are saying.

Edited by FranktheTank

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As others may have said, every silver in the game is backed by a purchase from the CC store @ X amount per coin. Now, this silver is switched hand VERY often with users buying in-game coins amongst themselves and cashing out via Paypal. From what I understand, an economy has to present an end to the lifetime of a coin to be revolving properly. I'm almost certain that if lots of items on traders (prices) are too high to drain some of those coins. If prices were adjusted, MAYBE the use of drains might work better. I'd definitely buy items from traders if I didn't have to save up for 6 months to then forget what I was saving for.

 

Code Club has to encourage people to spend that money sitting in the bank... I'd love to have a census of how much money is sitting in EVERYONE's banks all together and how many players use in-game silver to re-prem their accounts. There has to be ways to make users spend money other than re-prem with silver or buy player-made items... I think a lower premium cost (to encourage new players to prem-up) and an increased price for the deed upkeep (once the player decides to stay in the game), would work. It most likely balances the current playerbase since most have 1-2 accounts, maybe 3... And from there, triple deed upkeep costs if the premium rates are halved. Remove the option to pay for premium with in-game silver, Code Club makes ZERO money with that, other than draining what someone else bought from them beforehand. Might contradict myself with what I said earlier, but people have to start paying for the premium... 

 

The fact that the demand is not present for sellers might be a myth and it might just be the appreciation of the cost of a silver coin that has dropped since players don't mind undercutting each other to the point of almost giving those tools away. 

 

We might have to blame the crafting window for being able to spam things, and this surely didn't help anything other than consumables, which are also stockpiled by the millions between the scattered population. Quite easy to add parts on a knarr while watching a tv show since the interaction in-game becomes a waiting game with MINIMAL interaction, compared to before. Might need to also blame some new player gods, which I don't understand why we didn't stay to the basic 4 (Vynora, Magranon, Fo and Libila)... I am quite disappointed to see where Wurm has gone in the past years. We have seen client improvements and I am VERY happy/grateful with those, whether visual improvements, new skills and items or general client improvement, but I feel like the CEO of this company has lost the drive to thrive for Wurm and was put on his back-burner. 

 

P.S. Can we start a fundraising campaign or purchase shares of Code Club? 

 

 

 

 

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Triple upkeep I guess works for people with large deeds and alot of villagers that 'might' help with said upkeep.  I think for many of the hermits that it might be an end to the game.  I spend way more in upkeep than I ever thought about spending on premium.

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Yeah raising upkeep would cost the game to lose way more silver in my opinion.  I know I would just let all my deeds go except for maybe one. What they would make off a increase on the one deed left would more than likely not cover the loss of what the other 3 earned them. Very likely I would start dropping premium on at least one toon to help cover deed cost. I cant see that being a win if other people start downsizing also.

 

Introduce more cosmetic/decorative items into the cash shop and bring all that crap down to a reasonable price.  They are virtual items that cost 0 for code club so anything they make is profit. I would bet that items like Wagoneer would make way more money priced at 3 silver than 12 silver from sheer qty bought. 

 

I have to say no to skill decay if it was implemented how it was in the past. If I remember right if you didn't use a skill for 2 weeks it took a .25 hit that really sucked if you were busy digging etc and didn't get around to doing blacksmithing. I was pretty sure it was bugged as there was times I got hit in less than 2 weeks and for amounts greater than .25.  It also sucked to have to do something in each skill just so you wouldn't lose any.  That was a chore all on its own. I might would be onboard with skill decay if not prem and logged off for 6 months but undecided.

 

I still feel that account selling has had a negative impact on the Wurm market. In most games when someone stops playing so does their toon. This allows a new group of people to thrive in games marketplaces until eventually they stop play and other people step up to fill the void. A cycle of attrition. Most games eventually hit a critical point in their markets where it just goes stale and the game has to add new skills/items and or increase game caps.  Account selling has just allowed us to reach that point a bit more quickly.

 

I realize that undercutting is valid in a market system but I think people have taken it too far. Wurm has always had a staple of items that the price was always stable at. Dirt, bricks, mortar, clay, sleeping powder. New players could make a bit of coin on these bulk items or from selling their sleep powder. Watching the trade channel I have seen all these items go for 50% or more less than traditional standard prices.

 

Some people say that all these people undercutting will eventually tire off providing this stuff for so little the prices will go back up. That might be partially true but there seems to be always someone willing to sell for even less. Once buyers get accustomed to paying low prices they refuse to pay more.Enchanted Items seem to sell for less than half of what they should and you cant even charge for the 90ql imp it seems to just be expected.

 

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On 4/30/2018 at 6:43 PM, elroth said:

 

Please, stop trying to make the game work for the high end accounts to have a market, make the game interesting for people to join in and keep playing

 

 

 

 

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