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Neville

The Wurm Online Market Overall

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5 hours ago, rixk said:

I think this is the biggest mistake being done.. The assumption, that driving prices down is good for new players. It is based on assumption, that new players are consumers only. But they want to get into the game and start selling stuff also as fast as they want. And there the problem starts, when they realize, that everyone and their dog is selling stuff for peanuts. Basically making things harder for longtime players on the market does not make things easier on new players, they are affected probably even harder.

 

The market is not one item, it is a collection of many items. Some or which are relatively easy to do and some are quite difficult.  Favor and enchants, which are the items your response referred to, are difficult, it is not a new player friendly market.  Driving enchant prices down is good for new players, no question about it, as it is not a market they can realistically expect to participate in without some skills and time under their belt.  Getting some decent tools is is a necessary first step to get the skills flowing nicely so they can even hope to participate in other markets.

 

I think what you are talking about is something they can do fairly soon that is useful enough to earn some income and won't be just swamped by more senior players who can do it better and faster.  In my view such an item must have the following characteristics:

 - Has to be consumable;

 - Has to be something relatively easy to get but not too easy;

 - Has to be something that using multiple toons at once won't really help with;

 - Has to be a very high demand for it but not really critical.

 

In thinking about my own play experience, I can't for/bot on more than one toon at a time effectively so might be one game mechanic that would work.  It already has rare coins as well so definitely some income potential.  A couple of ideas that spring to mind are a very desirable ingredient in cooking or a shorter term skill gain boosting potion to apply to tools or even provide sleep bonus.   Add in several items like this from different areas and there should be enough for new players to do. 

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9 hours ago, GoldFever said:

 

The market is not one item, it is a collection of many items. Some or which are relatively easy to do and some are quite difficult.  Favor and enchants, which are the items your response referred to, are difficult, it is not a new player friendly market.  Driving enchant prices down is good for new players, no question about it, as it is not a market they can realistically expect to participate in without some skills and time under their belt.  Getting some decent tools is is a necessary first step to get the skills flowing nicely so they can even hope to participate in other markets.

 

I think what you are talking about is something they can do fairly soon that is useful enough to earn some income and won't be just swamped by more senior players who can do it better and faster.  In my view such an item must have the following characteristics:

 - Has to be consumable;

 - Has to be something relatively easy to get but not too easy;

 - Has to be something that using multiple toons at once won't really help with;

 - Has to be a very high demand for it but not really critical.

 

In thinking about my own play experience, I can't for/bot on more than one toon at a time effectively so might be one game mechanic that would work.  It already has rare coins as well so definitely some income potential.  A couple of ideas that spring to mind are a very desirable ingredient in cooking or a shorter term skill gain boosting potion to apply to tools or even provide sleep bonus.   Add in several items like this from different areas and there should be enough for new players to do. 

Driving prices down is good not only for new players, it is good for any consumer(old or young). Buyers want to buy things as cheap as possible. Seller wants to sell for as much money as possible, so driving prices into the ground is not good for sellers. And that was my point, new players are not only consumers, they want to sell stuff also. So we can't claim, that low prices are universally good for new players.

The main question is tho, where to find that perfect balance, where buyer and seller are both happy. Going from one extreme into another is definitely not a good idea.

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Trade is required 

WHEN 

person A can find or craft something that person B needs but can't easily find or craft

AND 

person B can find or craft something that persion A needs but can't easily find or craft.

 

That's all there is to it actually. Here's why it's not working in wurm online and how it could hypothetically work:

 

PROBLEMS

 

Problem: Established players can find or craft most of the resources themselves.

 

Accounts that are ten years old are able to produce most of the things by themselves. There's no more blacksmith, or chainsmith, or platesmith. Most high end accounts have all those skills at high level and if it weren't for the priest restrictions, people would only need 1 premium account to do everything by themselves.

 

Problem: Resources can be found everywhere.

 

You can plant farm 1000m up on a cold windy mountain, plant a forrest next to the salty water and produce lots of wood, have high quality metal veins in a populated area next to your house and find enough rock next to the water to build the great wall of China.

 

Problem: New players cant produce anything of value for older players.

 

A new player has to invest way too much time in order to participate in the trade. 

 

Problem: Trade & transportation mechanics cost much more than production mechanics.

 

If it's easier for me to mine 4000 rock shards than have someone transport them to me via cart or ship, i'll do that myself. 

 

PROPOSED SOLUTIONS

 

Limit multi-skilling

If you think about it, the introduction of priesthood was just the introduction of new tradeable materials/services which required players to use a different account. While most people can afford a 2nd account to have everything producable by themselves, that wouldn't be the case if we had a "class" system that would allow only certain skills to be leveled up. This is why all games introduce classes in order to force players to cooperate. If a warrior could be a healer, a mage, a druid  an archer and a rogue at the same time, he wouldn't need the assistance of other players thus he wouldn't need to join a guild or trade his services for the services of someone else. It would be great if we'd group the new and upcoming skills in classes and players would be required to select one of these classes on their accounts. 

 

Limit resource production to environment

 

Trees shouldn't be able to sprout (easily) next to the water, a farm shouldnt be able to grow on a mountain and rock layer shouldn't be so easy to find next to water. That way people would either need to have 10 different deeds and move around them for all required resources or contact someone living on a different area to provide locallly produced goods.

 

Make transportation easier

 

We're leaving in the Year of the Bulk. 10.000 of an item is nowadays the norm. The current containers, carts, wagons and boats are living in the Year of the Raft. Production has gone up, storage has become easier, but transportation is still how it used to be back in 2010 in wurm. We have to allow containers to hold more. We have to allow transporting vehicles to hold more containers and we have to make transportation faster. 

 

Frequently introduce new useful skills

 

New skills that would produce valuable items for players would allow newer players to get into a market not already established by over-grinded old accounts. 

 

 

Edited by Psychelock
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Decreasing the price of CoD helped kill the local markets. You get more bang for your buck buying that 90QL tool from that 99+ blacksmith on another server that buying from your 80 blacksmithing neighbor.

But  if, for example, cross server mailing was 1s and 50c for intra-server mailing, then your neighbor becomes a much more tempting offer.

This wouldn't be a popular change, but as someone with high skills, I definitely felt an uptick in demand when they dropped mailing prices to 1c. I also felt the crash of our server's primary merchant market, too. Why would people travel to a distant market when a CoD costs just 1c?

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One thing to consider is all accounts, had to do this at one point, not disagreeing but this is not something new, when we started in 2010 we had the same challenge.

 

Outside of buying a character every player has to " Grind ", if anything skilling is faster than it was years ago.

 

8 hours ago, Psychelock said:

Problem: New players cant produce anything of value for older players.

 

A new player has to invest way too much time in order to participate in the trade. 

 

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grinding isn't in the "modern" gaming market everyone want fast instant stuff. its become unpopular and it feel as if the umpf of achieving something great isn't enough anymore. 

Edited by Cybrochara
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4 hours ago, Cybrochara said:

grinding isn't in the "modern" gaming market everyone want fast instant stuff. its become unpopular and it feel as if the umpf of achieving something great isn't enough anymore. 

 

That's not true, grinding has, is and probably forever will be the cornerstone of MMORPGs. Modern games just hide it better. Getting a new shiny item that is just slightly better than the one you had before or a new flashy skill that is just slightly stronger than the one you use now is more exciting to players than seeing

 

[01:29:04] Body strength increased by 0.000005 to 67.533020

 

in a text window. 

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It seems that for *some* players the ability to sell goods for Silver (which is tied to RL currency for those who purchase it) is their primary motivation for playing the game. This is evidenced by the replies within this thread with their focus on the Wurm "Economy", which of course is *their* ability to make Silver from playing the game. What percentage of the playerbase this is I have no idea but lets look at this "Economy" from another perspective, those who do not participate in creating goods or services to sell to others for Silver. For them this only increases the price they pay to play the game when certain proposals to change the game mechanics to improve the "Economy" (their ability to make more Silver) are put forth.

 

I think it is unfortunate that the game was setup on the above basis (the ability to make Silver from playing the game) as a lure to draw players to it and yet this is the situation that we are in. For those who play the game for other reasons that it seems these players can't comprehend as being a sustaining one, falling prices for goods and services are a good thing, as their costs for playing the game are reduced. Here then the quiet battle is fought, perhaps unnoticed by these Silver Merchants with their eyes focused upon the Wurm "Economy" and its seeming vital importance to the *health* of the game. Does this really draw in *new* players or deter them with its lofty heights that must be scaled to profitability? Who is looking out for whose interests here?

 

Perhaps the evolution of the game over the years has had a subtle effect upon the Devs to lessen this focus upon the Wurm "Economy" and more upon the other pleasures of playing the game. Maybe it is just a more natural evolution as new creative features have been added to the game which have either no focus upon Silver making profitability or lessen it with less strict requirements which make items and services more available to everyone. I see this as a positive progression of the game, not something to be resisted for the sake of player profitability. It may be proceeding in this slow manner so as not to alienate the Merchant/Trader type of players, so that again is a good thing.

 

This whole concept and how it has influenced the game is intriguing to reflect upon. What the future holds, who knows. Time will tell.

 

Farewell

=Ayes=

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The drop in prices is a symptom of the actual issue. Excess supply compared to demand.

 

Most alliances and group of friends have their own leatherworker, carpenter, and smith. Prices have dropped because most people aren't shopping on the market anymore. Demand on the open market has shrived up and supply just  continues to expand.

 

It's great for the individual but it's a nightmare for everyone that plays as a crafter. And not the mega 99+ skilled crafters, but the little 70 blacksmith that wants to sell some hammers, too.

 

We have to revitalize demand for crafters of all different skill levels somehow.

 

 

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i have a very realistic solution too:

 

Step1 : we build a time machine for Budda. Step2: he goes back to 2010 and rethink every decision they made since then. Step3: we profit¿?.

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23 hours ago, Tpikol said:

i have a very realistic solution too:

 

Step1 : we build a time machine for Budda. Step2: he goes back to 2010 and rethink every decision they made since then. Step3: we profit¿?.

 

Step 4: you find something else wrong with whatever decision he made instead, and start yet another thread on the forums whining about how wurm isn't your perfect game, and the devs don't cater to your every whim.

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3 hours ago, Wonka said:

 

Step 4: you find something else wrong with whatever decision he made instead, and start yet another thread on the forums whining about how wurm isn't your perfect game, and the devs don't cater to your every whim.

learn how to read.what im complaining about is that the "solutions" proposed in this topic arent solutions at all

 

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/profile/2597-tpikol/content/&type=forums_topic&

there is not 1 topic ever started by me complaining about wurm. unless you count bug reports.but if you are going to say that every decision they ever made worked out well (including the ones the took back a few hours later) then you are just clueless or blind.

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An interesting thing to note is that as players perhaps leave due to their frustrations of trying to profit in a crowded market, then the population comes down.  As the population comes down, and less players produce "X" then the demand for "X" is strengthened, and eventually makes a return.  Not necessarily the desired outcome, losing players, however, just something interesting worth pondering.  All things in seasons.

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3 hours ago, Slickshot said:

An interesting thing to note is that as players perhaps leave due to their frustrations of trying to profit in a crowded market, then the population comes down.  As the population comes down, and less players produce "X" then the demand for "X" is strengthened, and eventually makes a return.  Not necessarily the desired outcome, losing players, however, just something interesting worth pondering.  All things in seasons.

100% agree with this

 

I think when that happens its best to add more markets in the game to better facilitate a saturated economy.  As I've said this before in other places in these forums, add more for new players to earn money besides bulk, bulk is stressful to a new player, the turn over rate is incredible. Add something for higher tiered players instead of imping blacksmith items for coinage it goes both ways, not everyone can bare the grind. Example: new player comes into the game, wants to make money, is told to make bulk. They proceed to make large nails to sell and levels blacksmithing to 50. This doesn't last long.. says nope I don't want to grind but I want to imp items and make money like (insert player here) does. They proceed to buy a 90 blacksmithing account, they play for a year maybe, realize its hard to sell blank non rare 90ql hammers without enchants, they stop and play another game. Chances are they didn't improve the account value, and only imped a few items when they realized it's still kind of grindy. They kind of don't think the game is for them, they might never play again and might or might not sell the account. 

 

Might not be the best example but I think you get the idea. I'm not saying we should change the game to make casual players feel more interested, but I think adding some economies would help somewhat. Just my thoughts on this. Thanks.

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You need more things to do entice people to play , adding rifts helped some and new eye candy also.

New ways to pay helped like 2 s for new char to prem . yes you don't get a referral but it got someone in to try and test the waters called wurm.

 

As for making tools or other items none repairable to increase sales makes no sense what's  so over since not everyone can repair there weapon or armor back to 80 or 90 yet alone replace the enchant as they ware off faster now.

 

As for bulk items rock and ore I had suggested  long ago that amount of ore and stone you receive from a vein should be equal to its QL .

 

Poor ql should take less swings to destroy the vein and also give less rock or ore, in that way having a larger demand because less is being produced .

Can this help ? possible is it to late to add such a system who knows .

Yes people have tons of rock stored but not that much .

 

You need a reason for new players to stay mini rifts with lower lvl mobs not same reward but that's up to devs to decide , as is now I see a lot of new players wanting to try rifts but don't have the skill or armor/weap to do so.

Lower form of rifts that can appear at any time and place may be handy or timed same as major rifts , it would be good practice .

 

People hate to grind not everyone but most , they need brakes and a distraction find that solution and Wurm will attract more new players.

Adding new rewards or rare is not the answer , add mini quest a npc in the middle of no-were just ask for help something like the missions maybe same reward sleep bonus and karma ..

 

Plus ADVERTISE FFS...    I don't see anything for Wurm ..

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Slickshot said:

An interesting thing to note is that as players perhaps leave due to their frustrations of trying to profit in a crowded market, then the population comes down.  As the population comes down, and less players produce "X" then the demand for "X" is strengthened, and eventually makes a return. 

 

That's how this works. That's not how any of this works.

 

First, more and more skilled accounts pop up as people skill. Next the really high skilled accounts stay forever. No one is going to let 500-1500 dollar accounts sit idle when they can sell it and go on vacation or buy a new computer. They're kept in the system.

 

In the end, more and more high skilled accounts are created. The accounts being lost (the 20-90 skilled accounts) are the traditional buyers!

 

In the end, the buyer pool shrinks and the selling pool keeps creeping (relatively) upward. It's a mess.

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A fly sat on my desk and asked me to post this. Don't hammer me if that's a bad idea, it was the fly!

 

Fly says she's a skilled cook. Her spoons and cauldrons are all top quality, well designed for masterchef, and with those she can do most delicate poocake in town. Just poodelicious!

However, she's a horrible carpenter. She said, at one point she thought a top quality hammer would help her build better cupboard for the million kids, but she was mistaken. She was just crap at carpentry, the cupboard turned out to be a staircase and on top of that, she also ruined the hammer! She just didn't have the skill to use such a delicately balanced tool. So now she's using a cheap hammer. This hammer can take a beating and doesn't break at first inaccurate move and even though she can't create a masterpiece cupboard with it, she can craft good enough stools.

She then had to leave, something about 120 eggs whatnot. I don't know much about cooking.

 

Now I'm still trying to figure out the whole meaning of this fly's point behind all this story. Let's face it, I'm not the brightest and some brilliant ideas just fly over my head.

But I think it has something to do with tool quality, skill level and the damage on the tool when being handled by some incompetent user. 
 

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2 hours ago, Shmeric said:

But I think it has something to do with tool quality, skill level and the damage on the tool when being handled by some incompetent user. 

 

That's already a thing, people under 25ish skill do a lot more damage to tools, i remember once my alts prem ran out mid crafting and i changed from doing around 1 dmg /minute to a 97ql supreme large anvil to around 25/minute.

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On 24.02.2018 at 11:26 AM, Ayes said:

It seems that for *some* players the ability to sell goods for Silver (which is tied to RL currency for those who purchase it) is their primary motivation for playing the game. This is evidenced by the replies within this thread with their focus on the Wurm "Economy", which of course is *their* ability to make Silver from playing the game. What percentage of the playerbase this is I have no idea but lets look at this "Economy" from another perspective, those who do not participate in creating goods or services to sell to others for Silver. For them this only increases the price they pay to play the game when certain proposals to change the game mechanics to improve the "Economy" (their ability to make more Silver) are put forth.

 

I think it is unfortunate that the game was setup on the above basis (the ability to make Silver from playing the game) as a lure to draw players to it and yet this is the situation that we are in. For those who play the game for other reasons that it seems these players can't comprehend as being a sustaining one, falling prices for goods and services are a good thing, as their costs for playing the game are reduced. Here then the quiet battle is fought, perhaps unnoticed by these Silver Merchants with their eyes focused upon the Wurm "Economy" and its seeming vital importance to the *health* of the game. Does this really draw in *new* players or deter them with its lofty heights that must be scaled to profitability? Who is looking out for whose interests here?

 

Perhaps the evolution of the game over the years has had a subtle effect upon the Devs to lessen this focus upon the Wurm "Economy" and more upon the other pleasures of playing the game. Maybe it is just a more natural evolution as new creative features have been added to the game which have either no focus upon Silver making profitability or lessen it with less strict requirements which make items and services more available to everyone. I see this as a positive progression of the game, not something to be resisted for the sake of player profitability. It may be proceeding in this slow manner so as not to alienate the Merchant/Trader type of players, so that again is a good thing.

 

This whole concept and how it has influenced the game is intriguing to reflect upon. What the future holds, who knows. Time will tell.

 

Farewell

=Ayes=

That's your point of view. But you can't deny a great part of Wurm and it's community, in form of it's economy. You also can't deny, that possibility of making profits in the game is biggest advantage, and challenge for a great number of players. 

My point of view as well as my expierience are totally different. 

To me, making profits and trading with other players always was and still (I hope) is, the best possible thing to do in game. In any games, where trading was possible, it always was the greatest thing to do with me. And don't get me wrong, I've never sold any coins for RL money. I did buy them multiple times from other players, even now I'm still doing so, regardless of fact that I don't really need to do that. I'm just supporting idea and possibility of selling ingame currency for RL currency. I'm buying coins from Wurm's shop as well as other players, thou for me what I'm buying for a game, stays within a game. That's it. 

Well, as I mentioned above, trading, selling, buying is most important to me in Wurm, within it's community in fact. So I'm highly afraid that this part of game is slowly and unstoppable going away. And I have a right, by saying that it's not only me who concerns about that. Also most if not every of my friends, allies and- New players, that I'm talking with are afraid of same thing. Yeah, to new players it's also important. And because of that, many of them already lost any interest in game. And you can't just judge them as "game's not for them then". It's not only about profits. It's about awareness, that everything you've made, every minut you've put working on something is worth something to others. People buying stuff from you, are mostly paying for your time. Time that you've put into the game grinding amazingly high skill, and also time necessary in creating and imping items (like armor crafters). Sometimes they also pays for a bit of your luck (rares etc). But time, time is the key. It's not always that easy for everyone, to spend so much grinding all these skills. So even most of new players I know, are loosing interest in game at their very beginnings. 

Why? Because there's pretty much no point for them to compete in the market. Someone said, that lower pricess are cool and dandy for new players. In short term, perhaps it's fine for everyone. But in longer term it's obvious destruction of Wurm's trading. Completely devaluation of players time. It's not easy to get so high in terms of skill in Wurm. It requires huge amount of time, sometimes even some money invests for special tools, sleep powders or anything else. Still, comparing to other games Wurm's stuff takes much longer. And when you finally do it, you've reached your goals and scored few 90 in crafting skills, then you pretty much can't sell anything. Or if you really want to, you have to sell it for dirt price. 

Within last few days I've bought rare 92QL+ and 95+ casted tools for a price of 4s each. Price of it stands probably only for rarity of an item. Even that's horrible cheap as rares used to be like 6-7s. But neverless, 4s, what means that player who put work into crafting 92QL tool, so must be atleast 91+ BS, then casted fine 95 BotD, which might be luck, might also be 90+ channeler, didn't even get any credit for his time and work. Even if we forget about grinding skills to 90-95 for a while, it still takes a bit to imp and cast such stuff. For nothing. 

I used to trade a great bit in wurm. I was working myself on bulks, other players were working for me, when i could only organize whole business to make any order within few hours. I was crafting a lot of stuff, I was taking part in private/ public slayings, so i pretty much know a bit every way to get some money in game. I always stated, that 90 skills aren't even needed to earn enough. I've earned my first 4-5G without any 80skills i think (but I'm not sure). Then i started crafting and selling mid QL stuff. And I'm doing it all the time. It's not like i can't make any 90QL tools. I've chosen QL range of 75-85QL because for many months it was the best middleground between profits/ time needed for improving. But now id doesn't matter. Even with 92-95 skills, stuff is barely worth anything. I have many 89.5 skills (some time ago i had a vision of getting multiple 90 titles within a few minutes). And now I don't even try to get these last halves. There's no point. Also I have many Rare/ supreme stuff for sell. But last time, when i tried to sell for example supreme forge or supreme longsword, i had an offers of 12-15s. When back in days, not so long time ago even, i could sell that for 25-30s. In this case I just prefer to keep this stuff and use it as decorations in my deed. Like rare/ supreme tools decorating my castle and smithy. It's no more worth to make this stuff for enything else than decorating my upcoming deed. And that's really destroying all good feelings about Wurm, when I was sure that everything i have to offer is really worth something, unlike other games. 

I have (yet) an idea of creating a huge deed, place for new players as well as returning ones. However, longer i think about it, longer i can't see any point in this as well. I was always all about helping newbies, even now i can travel for few hours, just to help some new soul, or show a right way, or help with anything like building or so. But i can imagine now, that on or (i wish) few new players comes to me and asks: "what skills are worth grinding to be able to pay for premium and basic needs?"
What will I say? Back then i could answer, some sort of smithing, always priest, and of course in meantime at the beginnings making bulk goods. But now? Few days ago I've bought 20k of bricks for 22s with crates included. Also what can I answer about skills? Simple: none skill. Now market is flooded with everything, and steps in making game even easier and easier doesn't help at all. Only answer is: nothing. Before you get 90+ skills, stuff will be worth few coppers. Better go and forage, and that's the only way of making your time profitable to you. And that's why new players often leaves the game. Because they need a great invests in premium and most important- time, with no a slight chance of getting back or enjoying that stuff. 

Because why should I enjoy making new 90 in next skills? For example, now I can buy 90QL tools for 10-20c, and that's not so uncommon. No, go back, forget about money. why should I enjoy grinding next 90? Literally typing 2 keys on keyboard for days, sometimes weeks, maybe months, depends. When i finally get my 90 let's say blacksmithing. All I can is to create and repair 90QL stuff. So I'm making new and shiny 90QL toolset. And? ok, I'm making maybe another for my alt and yet another just in case. But? Why should i create more tools? I don't need it, i just need to reimp it from time to time, so literally type these 2 keys few times more and that's it. My set is at 90QL again. Without necessary of making new tools. Amazing. Fun. Wow. 

So if i can't really sell my stuff, or i can sell it for few coppers from time to time, what's the other point of making 90 skills, beside title collecting? These skills are all about marketing them. Selling, buying. If market wouldn't be a biggest part of wurm's expierience, then most people would stop at 60-70 skills, because that's the level when you can make almost everything for your own needs. 

In short, we have a really hard time trying to get new players to the game. But even if we have some sort of new soul, it's even harder to attract him/ her to stay. And by saying that he/ she must put a ton of work just for... for what? We can't make it better. 
And make no mistake, we won't get many new players, never. Someone said (advertise Wurm! Make some marketing, promote the game!) How? How the hell you wanna promote 12y old game? It's a dream. None now want's to play that outdated games. Most would look into it and just by looking at first seconds of any clip will skip to another page. This game is too old for promotion. Where? TV? FB, YT? For real promotion devs would need a bit of money. More, better. But in case of that old game it makes no sense, because it's highly, highly doubtful that invest would return in form of new players and subscriptions. Let's face it, Wurm's too old and outdated for that. And will never catch up to modern gaming. 

Now I'm refusing to do anything more in market. I'm getting back to a shadow, because I don't believe that my stuff is worth selling. Even if I'm selling something in my shop, It's mostly for some roleplay feeling, kind that makes me feel like my toon is really "on his own" in Wurm's world, and this stuff is important and needed for someone. But because i don't wanna change any prices, i don't expect to sell anything, and that's fine. But doing so, my best experience in Wurm has gone.

I'm actually working on my deed project. Maybe I'll found also another. But when it'll be done, I see no place for myself in Wurm anymore. I'll just throw few golds into upkeeps and I'm afraid that's might be all for me. Everything what I'm doing, by losing value, lost also whole sense and idea of making it. And I say once again, it's not like I'm into RL profits. I've hoarded many gold coins by trading, buying from game and selling, never sold them for RL currency. So i also don't need them really now. I have also multiple accounts, yet I'm using only one because that's most immersive to me. Sometimes I'll log an alt for bulks, that's it. But never selling. 


What's my idea of fixing economy problem? I have none. I thing it's too late or maybe it'll be a simple natural process of dropping prices to zero. Maybe if repair of items would depend on actual crafting skills?
In fact to fix something i need to know how it works and how it's made. So capping repair by crafting skill would be an idea? If you have for example 30WS, then (100WS- 30)- so you can repair dmg only when i get higher than 70? Also make this repair more destructable for item QL? Dunno,  anyway it's too late for that. 

Another idea would be ship/ wagons/ carts sinking after let's say 3 months of not logging. Or so. Yeah, too late for that also. 
No idea. 

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Re: players selling coin for IRL cash, everyone supporting it says "the player buys the coins and they disappear into upkeep! magic!" ... except when player A sells bulk for example, sells the silvers to player B, player B buys bulk from player C, player C sells the coins to player D, player D buys tools from player E with the money, player E sells the coins, player F buys the coins and finally uses them for upkeep. <--- Yes, generally oversimplified but not exactly implausible.

 

See how many dev-hiring dollars were lost there?  See how many less silvers are now circulating in the economy?

 

Meanwhile, players A, C, and E at some point quit, their accounts were sold for IRL cash too... B, D, and F along with their buddies can grind all they want, the "ACE" accounts are still there and way better established in the market.

 

If there's a dev decision to blame for collapsing markets, it's letting "ACE" drown out any discussion which would open up the markets.  For many people, the best way to enjoy Wurm is just generally stay out of the economy with the exception of a couple of "muuuuust buy" purchases or face ingame financial frustration.  But at some point you'll run out of building projects/land and then... grinding a craft is only handy to make your own stuff *further removing yourself from the market*.

 

What I like about WU servers in general.... the weaponsmith quits, it creates a gap for newer weaponsmiths to fill.

Edited by Mordraug
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33 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

See how many dev-hiring dollars were lost there?  See how many less silvers are now circulating in the economy?

Where do you think that silver is coming from? You do realize that if for example for one year devs would shutdown the silver / premium store, the amount of silver that is currently circulating around in the game through many many players will eventually dwindle into nothing? It's not an infinite number of silvers xD

33 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

What I like about WU servers in general.... the weaponsmith quits, it creates a gap for newer weaponsmiths to fill

I understand the point of WU accounts being impossible to sell , but there is also a big downside to this : You cannot play on two accounts at the same time, and the way the game is designed it kindof wants you to. It wants you to have a priest and a crafter, it wants you to have a path of love for enchanted grass and a path of knowledge for the smithing, it wants you to have insanity for fighting, it wants more accounts from you. The only way i could open two accounts at once on the same server on WU was with the steam close glitch and even with that you will randomly get kicked off the server. 

Edited by Gladiator

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I cant believe people are defending RMT. If you make money through this game, good. If your nest egg dries out and you can no longer make money, then just as well. However, your virtual business should never be the basis of any development decision. Any. Suck it up.

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9 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I cant believe people are defending RMT. If you make money through this game, good. If your nest egg dries out and you can no longer make money, then just as well. However, your virtual business should never be the basis of any development decision. Any. Suck it up.

Not when it is one of the selling points of the game:

from WO website (main page): "Trade in-game items and services for virtual or real life currency."

This is funny "development decision" tbh. People are invited to trade for real currency, then there is a crusade started against the same people.

 

RMT IS Wurms strength, not a weakness. Pretty much all the changes made to Wurms economy have been made on emotional basis, because "Some people are making money in Wurm".. Obviously! Making profit is the main motivation to trade in the first place. If you take away the profits, you take away reason to trade. Also real money is no factor here.. people trade even in games, where ingame money isn't tied to real money.

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1 minute ago, rixk said:

Not when it is one of the selling points of the game:

from WO website (main page): "Trade in-game items and services for virtual or real life currency."

This is funny "development decision" tbh. People are invited to trade for real currency, then there is a crusade started against the same people.

 

RMT IS Wurms strength, not a weakness. Pretty much all the changes made to Wurms economy have been made on emotional basis, because "Some people are making money in Wurm".. Obviously! Making profit is the main motivation to trade in the first place. If you take away the profits, you take away reason to trade. Also real money is no factor here.. people trade even in games, where ingame money isn't tied to real money.

Its a marketing point, not a strenght. Its actually a weakness. If silver was to dissapear today, people would barter and the game would go on. I have bartered with players many times. I have met many players who cant offload goods for silver, but when offered bulk or enchants in exchange, it moves instantly.

 

There is more to trade than just making money. You are wrong.

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