Bringing a gasp of life back to Epic

[MrGARY 12,421]

Epic is in quite the delicate state at the moment, but many of the problems can give worse effects if fixed the wrong way

 

The most glaring issue is the simple fact that you are either grinding on freedom to get the skill on both clusters, or you are hurting yourself grinding on epic pretty much investing your time into something on par with a test cluster.  Removing the transfers from freedom to epic will just mean people stick to freedom cluster, this is obviously bad for the health of epic.  As a long time epic player since the start, I only really started playing freedom once epic was just staying dead for too long and appearing to stay that way and post skill merge I'm going to keep grinding on freedom even if I can't take the skill to epic anymore.  The best way I can see to fix this issue which obviously the devs won't/don't like is to copy over current epic skills as highest skills on freedom with a x3 to. 1.00 blacksmithing on freedom and 90 on epic becomes 1.00 x3 to 90 on freedom.  Epic skill system reverts back to what it was before, and will constantly transfer to freedom at the skill conversion previously used.  Faster timers on epic will remain as is to further enforce that Epic will be an action/adventure cluster not a grindfest.  Some of this might not be fair or it might be fair, but people have already lost skills in the name of fairness, when there is less than 500 total in wurm on 7pm est friday we need to take some proper leaps

 

The map.  It's too big, we warned this before the reset and as stated it was why first ele was the size it was, but it happened and it is what it is.  The map no doubt needs to go back to original ele size, and tread cautiously with all these "I want big mountains and chokepoints but not the chokepoints we have now!"  But as evident with the epic hype surge horses were a massive issue, so animal crates really need to come in before a map reset so the active kingdoms can take their stock to home servers and bring back to a new ele map.

 

The concept of grind on freedom, fight on epic has already been embedded.  Focus on this.  Give a reason for people to be on epic, and further on elevation.  Treasure chests were a good step in this direction, and are good as is imo.  But further ideas like this.  Reasons to adventure, reasons to have people moving around and active and pvp will happen naturally.  Don't add more stationary things on a timed schedule like hota or depot that fully rely on people logging in at a set time and getting as many as they can, this leads to stagnation and snowballing.  The best fights have always been random take what you got brawls, and these fights that can have 2-5 people on each side benefit the smaller and newer guys where they aren't able to compete vs a 10-20 man group of experienced pvpers with god tier accounts

 

The constant lag on elevation is a massive turn off.

 

The only ones that seem to really be interested in missions post-update are new guys/guys from freedom.  I have no interest, but for a long time I only really bothered when other people had the ball going and mrh were spamming missions 24/7, but none of them care anymore and all grind on freedom now.  Myself I think I've done maybe 2 or 3 missions since 1.6 on epic.  There's countless new bugs, the mission difficulty is way too high, and there are things that just don't work.  Sacrifice missions are horrible, no one seems to do them on freedom, idk epic but the ones I randomly see remain untouched.  They were removed before, and now they are a literal nuisance.  Who wants to half kill an animal that can't be led, then stay in combat with it while holding a special knife after dragging just one animal to god knows where to find the right influence, or have to convert to an unfavorable god to spam altars or make/use an alt to spam altars...  Why are we suddenly getting spammed with avenger of the lights all over the maps, after we just had serious issues with valrei creatures spamming the maps being a massive pain?  Nevermind that sometimes you have to actually sacrifice something that can just stun you whenever and stop the action repeatedly and just kill you if you don't run away?  There are some good things like traitors being found with lurker in the dark is really nice but majority of it needs to go back to the drawing board.  Mission items, before you could run your laps around the secret hotspots and around the forests/coasts and get what you need, could be 5m could be a few hours.  Now on freedom I've spent up to hours investigating with a 90ql trowel on old deeds and not gotten mission items, and I have dug with an 85ql shovel for up to an hour before getting one item.  When you might be the only one completing a mission, is it enjoyable to spend actual days working on it?  Even with the faster timers, is it enjoyable to make 700 decent hats?  And then after all this, only one actual tome will drop.  Between all the potential tome fragments, wand fragments, egg, and lumps and the rate scenarios end, you could actually win scenarios for years before completing an actual tome.

 

Remove purchased res stones from epic.  Make everyone on epic have a natural 50% res stone.  Many people are already using trash armor like leather, studded, chain, iron/steel plate, (drake is rare, but not even special anymore. studded/chain is nearly as good or better and offers similar movement speeds) people don't need to loot that but while some might leave it some will take it.  Giving a chance for newer players to keep their junk vs having to pay 5s would be more encouraging.  It would also further encourage dual cluster playing, maining freedom and going to epic for fun

[SmeJack 5,798]

1 hour ago, Entendu said:

 

Old Elevation had to go, it was absolutely trashed because of the amount of events. I think a similar size map needs to come back. 

 

My bad I thought it went without saying that no one wants the last backup of it with deeds of people that long forgot the game and the events that no longer happen and terrible gm attempted fixes

[Wargasm 1,927]

I forgot to mention another valid complaint regarding skills, and that is starting with 1.00 faith.  As much as I'd really like to jump into epic, start building a deed and such, it really is demoralizing to start with being unable to do any enchants for my weapons, tools or armor, and not having access to utility spells.

 

"Ask someone in your kingdom" - there's 5 people online.

"Just spend a few weeks doing sermons" - again, there's.... 5 people online...

 

I don't think it's unfair to allow priests from freedom to be able to transfer 70 faith in the religion of their choice on Epic.  The population on Epic, in ANY kingdom, simply does not support faith grinding.

[Roccandil 959]

6 hours ago, MrGARY said:

The most glaring issue is the simple fact that you are either grinding on freedom to get the skill on both clusters, or you are hurting yourself grinding on epic pretty much investing your time into something on par with a test cluster.  Removing the transfers from freedom to epic will just mean people stick to freedom cluster, this is obviously bad for the health of epic.  As a long time epic player since the start, I only really started playing freedom once epic was just staying dead for too long and appearing to stay that way and post skill merge I'm going to keep grinding on freedom even if I can't take the skill to epic anymore.  The best way I can see to fix this issue which obviously the devs won't/don't like is to copy over current epic skills as highest skills on freedom with a x3 to. 1.00 blacksmithing on freedom and 90 on epic becomes 1.00 x3 to 90 on freedom.  Epic skill system reverts back to what it was before, and will constantly transfer to freedom at the skill conversion previously used. 

 

The old skilling system sucked. Instead of bringing it back, I'd simply make it even quicker/easier for people living and skilling on Epic to catch up to Freedom accounts. That would be an interesting choice:

 

- Skill quickly to PvP power levels on Epic;

- Skill slowly on freedom, but get the benefit of both worlds.

 

I'd rather encourage new players to live full-time on Epic then encourage seamless jumping between clusters.

 

[MrGARY 12,421]

24 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

The old skilling system sucked.

 

like 99% of wurm would disagree

 

literally the difference is using higher ql tools for gathering which means more resource drain for the same skill, great system

[Mclavin 3,704]

I can't bring people or friends to elevation, map sucks, a lot of purple got no motivation for it, they rather just do hota and log off. 

[Jaz 2,665]

9 hours ago, Wargasm said:

I forgot to mention another valid complaint regarding skills, and that is starting with 1.00 faith.  As much as I'd really like to jump into epic, start building a deed and such, it really is demoralizing to start with being unable to do any enchants for my weapons, tools or armor, and not having access to utility spells.

 

"Ask someone in your kingdom" - there's 5 people online.

"Just spend a few weeks doing sermons" - again, there's.... 5 people online...

 

I don't think it's unfair to allow priests from freedom to be able to transfer 70 faith in the religion of their choice on Epic.  The population on Epic, in ANY kingdom, simply does not support faith grinding.

 

I'm not against the suggestion -not sure about the faith of choice part though-, it was a pain to grind faith up again. With sermons, 2 priests myself and a bunch other in the group. Next wave coming in right now.

There are groups with sermons.

 

[Wargasm 1,927]

2 hours ago, Jaz said:

 

I'm not against the suggestion -not sure about the faith of choice part though

 

 

So what- if I'm a Freedom Vynora priest and I join hots- I'm automatically Libila and have lost my ability to farm?  Unacceptable.  Oh, so I'd stay Vynora and be a WL priest in a BL kingdom?  Also unacceptable.

 

Look, the whole point of the epic skill transfer was to allow Freedom players to "jump in" to PvP.  With no priest on Epic, I have no ability to replace anything I lose in PvP.  The only thing I'd be jumping into would be suicide if I'm using un-enchanted tools, armor and horse shoes to participate in HoTA.

[Jaz 2,665]

Well, if you go alone it is a suicide either. In a group the enchants will be provided until you had the sermons... but anyway if it would get higher population it is very fine for me, I'm above the 70 faith on all my priests already and I don't mind if others get it easier.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Jaz

[Eltaran 79]

One thing that could make me try Epic is highly cooperative play. That is something that really irks me on Freedom - I am in an alliance with quite some members who are spread over a wide area and everyone is happily living inside his little shell. No incentive to work together. The last post on the alliance forum was by me in June last year. People help each other when there is need but there is just no real feeling of community.

 

Kingdom size or being on the winning team doesn't matter. What would be a good choice then?

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

What yall mean bring the life back, thought it was back already from the skill transfers lulz. 

[Wargasm 1,927]

1 minute ago, Nomadikhan said:

What yall mean bring the life back, thought it was back already from the skill transfers lulz. 

 

It was for about a week, before I got a good look at the map and realized my priest was useless.

[Nappy 1,369]

At this point it's time to hear from @Retrograde, @Buddaand the devs. This thread has representation from all kingdoms on Epic, the players in this thread are passionate and show that they care to see Epic continue. They represent a solid core of players who could help bring it back to life. There has been no kingdom drama or posturing in this thread either.

 

What we need now is clarity from Wurm staff. The lack of clarity is leading to uncertainty which is indeed one of the root cause problems of our current situation.

 

We also need to know your views on many of the suggestions/recommendations posted here.

 

Will you either replace Elevation with a new map or add a smaller server to the cluster that could be that highly intense battle ground? If not, why not? Help us understand the thinking so that we can help figure out a solution.

 

What about the other items mentioned?

[Sjarn 81]

14 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

What yall mean bring the life back, thought it was back already from the skill transfers lulz. 

 

Lol... just woke up did you?  This conversation's been going on a while now.

[Wargasm 1,927]

What we need now is clarity from Wurm staff.

 

Keep holding your breath.

[BrQQQ 2,854]

34 minutes ago, Eltaran said:

One thing that could make me try Epic is highly cooperative play. That is something that really irks me on Freedom - I am in an alliance with quite some members who are spread over a wide area and everyone is happily living inside his little shell. No incentive to work together. The last post on the alliance forum was by me in June last year. People help each other when there is need but there is just no real feeling of community.

 

Kingdom size or being on the winning team doesn't matter. What would be a good choice then?

 

Cooperative play is a must on Epic. It's extremely community oriented and you'll likely keep talking to players even outside of the game. Sometimes it's fun, because they might call for your help to do something at times when you're bored. At other times it's a bit painful, because you might be at work and hear that your capital is getting raided or something and you can't do anything. Naturally every community will have a bit of drama going on too.

 

If you try to play completely alone, you'll quickly get bored and frustrated.

 

Another thing to note is that you don't need any silver to participate, outside of your own prem and whatever trader items you might want to buy. Communities will give you items based on merit and trust, not for money. If you die all the time to stupid things, nobody is going to trust you with valuable items. If you actively participate in PvP and you do a good job (even if you die sometimes), they might give you a scale set to walk around with if they have one. Nobody will ask you anything for basic gear, weapons, tools or enchants and you're expected to do the same.

The only except might be exceptionally rare and valuable items, like Valrei items and even then, same-kingdom trading is quite rare with those items.

 

All active kingdoms have their own community. Best is to ask friends and alliance members if they know any Epic players. Or you can try your luck and apply at one of the existing kingdoms. There should be recruitment threads for each.

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

3 minutes ago, Sjarn said:

 

Lol... just woke up did you?  This conversation's been going on a while now.

Don't play on epic, just find it silly these threads keep going on and on.  Nothing done has really helped this cluster in the long term.  I just don't see the point in continueing to beat a dead horse.  Hence the "lulz"

[Wargasm 1,927]

Yeah they're about as repetitive as the "WTB Rare mats" threads in the market sub-forum.... but they're part of life, so get used to it.  This is what happens when players are frustrated trying to increase a dying population.

[Wilczan 2,048]

3 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

Don't play on epic, just find it silly these threads keep going on and on.  Nothing done has really helped this cluster in the long term.  I just don't see the point in continueing to beat a dead horse.  Hence the "lulz"

 

1 minute ago, Wargasm said:

Yeah they're about as repetitive as the "WTB Rare mats" threads in the market sub-forum.... but they're part of life, so get used to it.  This is what happens when players are frustrated trying to increase a dying population.

 

"Hello. It's not my cluster dying so I don't give a f..."

[Wargasm 1,927]

He said it, not me.  I actually go to Epic sometimes.

[Sjarn 81]

1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

Look, the whole point of the epic skill transfer was to allow Freedom players to "jump in" to PvP. 

 

Was it?  I think the real issue here is that no one actually knows what the intention was on the part of the Devs, so everyone makes assumptions based on their own personal situation.  As a largely full-time resident of Epic, I'm not convinced I want to see it become just a trash pvp destination for Freedom - largely Chaos - Players who don't care about anything because death has virtually no consequences to them. 

 

The main point here, though, is that there seems to be almost as many opinions as Players (well forum accounts, anyway) on some of these issues... and until we have clear idea of intended directions from Dev Team, it's really hard for anyone to figure out how they should be spending their time in-game.  

 

 

30 minutes ago, Nappy said:

What we need now is clarity from Wurm staff. The lack of clarity is leading to uncertainty which is indeed one of the root cause problems of our current situation.

 

I second this.

[Roccandil 959]

9 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

like 99% of wurm would disagree

 

My observations aren't based on consensus.

 

9 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

literally the difference is using higher ql tools for gathering which means more resource drain for the same skill, great system

 

The difference is that the new skilling is intuitive: I use the best to get the best result, as opposed to the really bizarre gyrations required to get results within 1 - 39.

 

For me, at least, skilling has been a lot more fun since the update.

[platinumteef 2,201]

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

The difference is that the new skilling is intuitive: I use the best to get the best result, as opposed to the really bizarre gyrations required to get results within 1 - 39.

 

For me, at least, skilling has been a lot more fun since the update.

 

I enjoy the idea of adjusting difficulty to get better skill gain but at the same time  I do think its healthier for the game to get away from that system as its not very intuitive.

 

But damn there needs to be a middle ground.. I don't want to spam 2second mining actions for 60 minutes worth of the same gain that I got before that was much more relaxed. Oh well though, theres not really a reason to grind on Epic for the foreseeable future anyway I guess. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by platinumteef

[Wargasm 1,927]

2 hours ago, Sjarn said:

As a largely full-time resident of Epic, I'm not convinced I want to see it become just a trash pvp destination for Freedom - largely Chaos - Players who don't care about anything because death has virtually no consequences to them. 

 

 

Death has no consequences on Epic?  Explain.  Does gear not drop when you die on Epic?  Sure it does.  Do you get ridiculed as a coward for not coming out to fight and stupid for dying when you do come out?  Yes.

 

The consequences of death on Epic are apparent-  I can't replace my gear after death.

 

As for the rest of you thinking the devs will clear all of this up and weigh in on your situation.... I got news for you.  The freedom/epic skills transfer was about the only attention you're going to see this year.  Everything else is wood models, painted sails and QoL adjustments to distract them from what they should be working on.

[Roccandil 959]

12 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

I enjoy the idea of adjusting difficulty to get better skill gain but at the same time  I do think its healthier for the game to get away from that system as its not very intuitive.

 

I agree: I'd like to see difficulty matter, within the context of 1 - 100, not 1 - 39.

 

In that vein, I would consider making difficulty provide a CoC-like bonus. That would reward doing the most difficult actions you could consistently do successfully, which might not be perfect, but I think would be an improvement.

 

12 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

But damn there needs to be a middle ground.. I don't want to spam 2second mining actions for 60 minutes worth of the same gain that I got before that was much more relaxed.

 

I agree. Ideally, I'd just make filling the floor with 100 ore one button click. Right now, even with just holding down a key to fill my queue, it's a carpal tunnel nightmare.

 

At any rate, even if skill gains were identical on Epic and Freedom, I suspect that wouldn't really help (not for what it would cost). I don't mind making it easier for Freedomers to jump in (faith/priesthood/med paths, I'm looking at you), but I -really- want to see more people living full-time on Epic.