Crop Rotation

[Trenix 31]

I've seen this mentioned before on the forums but in different ways and some not actually hitting the mark of what it actually is. Right now farming is rather basic and not as in-depth as other mechanics. I wish to see a bit more from it. So one step further would be to make us rotate crops in order to obtain optimal yields. What I mean from this is that you should not be able to grow the exact same crop multiple times on a tile without consequences. By doing so, you are taking out essential nutrients from the soil, making it become infertile. So let me give an example on how the system should work in my opinion.

 

Option 1
You grow a crop, wait till ripe, then harvest.

 

Afterwards you have two options.

 

1. You grow the same crop on the same tile, wait till ripe, then harvest and obtain less yield.
2. You grow a different crop, wait till ripe, then harvest and obtain optimal yield.

Now we can leave it at that and the system would be better economically already and making it more fun and interesting, however we can go EVEN further.

 

Option 2

You grow a crop, wait till ripe, then harvest.

 

Afterwards you have two options.

 

1. You grow the same crop on the same tile, wait till ripe, then harvest and obtain less yield.
   • If this is your second time doing this, the tile becomes infertile soil. Growing crops here will generate no yield. This can be remedied in one, two, or three ways depending on what the developers feel should be added.
     1. Growing a crop on the field and then letting it fallow. This is making the crop reach it's seventh stage. When cleared, the infertile soil will become regular fertile soil again.
     2. Adding compost to an infertile tile. Compost can be obtained from a compost heap. The compost heap would be a structure similar to a trash heap, but can only hold food items. When a certain amount of food is decayed with required weight, it will become compost.
     3. Adding manure to an infertile tile. You can use a rake on a tile near bigger animals, such as cows to have a chance of finding manure.
2. You grow a different crop, wait till ripe, then harvest and obtain optimal yield.

[MrGARY 12,421]

Massive step back in QoL.  People want to grow the same thing for many reasons.  Optimal skill gain, optimal weight for carrying for taming/enchanting, they need a lot of what they're growing like cotton/wemp for grinds or healing, and so forth

[Trenix 31]

6 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

Massive step back in QoL.  People want to grow the same thing for many reasons.  Optimal skill gain, optimal weight for carrying for taming/enchanting, they need a lot of what they're growing like cotton/wemp for grinds or healing, and so forth

Yes, that's the point. Challenges make the game more fun and less repetitive. You'd still be able to remedy the problem while mass producing the same crop, but you will produce a bit less.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Trenix

[Pashka 707]

no.  If you wish to have this as a roleplay for yourself, have fun.  But to be forced?  No.

[Wargasm 1,927]

-1  because stupid.

[Trenix 31]

1 minute ago, Wargasm said:

-1  because stupid.

Well that's immature and very inappropriate of you. No need to act nasty to ideas you don't like or don't agree with. Also some constructive relies would be nice.

 

16 minutes ago, Pashka said:

no.  If you wish to have this as a roleplay for yourself, have fun.  But to be forced?  No.

This game is one big roleplay. You roleplay a farmer, carpenter, mason, and so on.

[Pashka 707]

Yes it is one big roleplay.  Which is why it doesn't need to be forced on those that do not wish to roleplay that way. 

[MrGARY 12,421]

1 hour ago, Trenix said:

Challenges make the game more fun and less repetitive

 

Forced penalties and chores make the game less fun and results in less players

[Yiraia 427]

+.5, People on wurm are wimpy people that say no to effort. Instead Id recommend an xp boost for performing crop rotations.

[Finnn 3,303]

Realism is cool, but we play games instead for a reason.

 

Accept that some people like some freedom, there are habits and certain needs.

 

Unless players need or could use the produced crops, it's wasting their time.

Skill for harvest limits your options to trade 1:1 with other players...

[Fablecrafter 171]

Honestly I really like the idea myself, I like having depth to the things I do, especially in a sandbox setting, and Wurm going as far as being somewhat of a "life simulator" I think this sort of depth would be a good thing.

+1 from me

[Yiraia 427]

11 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Realism is cool, but we play games instead for a reason.

True, lets remove hunger and make eating just for affinities.

[Trenix 31]

4 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

Forced penalties and chores make the game less fun and results in less players

Yes this may be true, but Wurm has always been about chores and penalties. It's actually the reason why I play this over Minecraft. Wurm is basically Minecraft for adults. I also don't see the big problem about rotating crops, unless someone is overly mass producing and in that case, they sort of need some more difficulty, don't you agree? It's not so hard to just flip crops around. Personally I'd like to see even more be added, this is just basics. Like for example, being able to figure out the nutrients that are found in the soil, finding what nutrients crops take, and messing around in that manner. Now I'm not saying my ideas are perfect, maybe people should farm continuously without any penalty. Yet people who put a little more thought into farming, should be able to benefit from it, wouldn't you agree? I believe there was a mod for minecraft called terrafirmacraft which added plenty of depth in farming and made it way more enjoyable than just planting and waiting. https://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Agriculture

Edited February 4, 2018 by Trenix

[Wargasm 1,927]

The majority of farmers use one single crop-  garlic.  While I might plant tomatoes or potatoes on occasion for cooking, 99 out of 100 vegetables I use are garlic for casting on my priest.  If I were forced to "rotate my crops", I'd really have no use for the excess veggies I'd be forced to grow every other week.

 

In addition to being one of the key ingredients to make passata (pizza), being a staple material for grinding natural substances AND being the lightest vegetable for a priest to use for casting, garlic is one of only two grown vegetables that can be used to make a potency 2 healing cover.

 

And there's nothing immature about rolling my eyes at someone trying to over-sophisticate an already complicated game.  Like the moron that suggested we should have to boil/distill our water before drinking it, you are making a suggestion that is unpopular with the majority of the players.... expect negative feedback on this one.

[PumperNickel 127]

4 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

And there's nothing immature about rolling my eyes at someone trying to over-sophisticate an already complicated game.  Like the moron that suggested we should have to boil/distill our water before drinking it, you are making a suggestion that is unpopular with the majority of the players.... expect negative feedback on this one.

There is a difference between saying something is stupid and ending it there vs actually giving helpful criticism. Even though the majority of the players probably won't like this idea, at least he/she is trying make the game more challenging/interesting and I don't mind that at all.

[Yiraia 427]

14 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

Like the moron that suggested we should have to boil/distill our water before drinking it, you are making a suggestion that is unpopular with the majority of the players.... expect negative feedback on this one.

I expected a person with the name Wargasm to be less of a ninny... My suggest was no where near that easy XD. My suggestion was to make saltwater and lake water less effective for imping, people could still spend a longer time drinking it. I was basically making a suggestion to make wells and fountains much more useful than a source of water further from the shore. Its okay to admit that you don't want to play a "game", and that simple clicking and rewards is satisfying enough for you. One of my village-mates wanted to be the town farmer and asked "What do i do." We responded just plan the seeds and check at least once a day to farm. She asked "Anything else, should I replant the high ql seeds?" and i told her it doesnt matter if its 1ql or 100ql. Just plant, and farm, and eventually you will be good. You know how boring that sounds? Or maybe "How do i quench my thirst, the 1ql lingonberry juice is doing nothing." and hearing "Ah just live near the a water source and drink from it, doesn't matter what water."

[Kadore 926]

Things like this are the beauty of WU, Wurm Online caters to the masses as a whole, it has some difficulty to make some challenge but not everything is made hardcore to keep everyone happy enough.

 

If want Wurm Second Life you are more than able to mod your perfect survival game and fill it with like minded and willing players, that would be the easiest solution instead of trying to browbeat others to conform to your ideal way of gameplay.

[Hailene 362]

Seems excessively complicated and makes growing even more of a pain. Sowing, tending, and harvesting is already enough of a butt.

Having to plant extra crops I don't want and waiting a week for them to ripen to plant the actual crops I want again? No thanks.

I see what the idea is trying to do, but the net change seems more of a bother than what it contributes.

 

-1 from me.

[Wargasm 1,927]

55 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

I expected a person with the name Wargasm to be less of a ninny... My suggest was no where near that easy XD. My suggestion was to make saltwater and lake water less effective for imping, people could still spend a longer time drinking it. I was basically making a suggestion to make wells and fountains much more useful than a source of water further from the shore. Its okay to admit that you don't want to play a "game", and that simple clicking and rewards is satisfying enough for you. One of my village-mates wanted to be the town farmer and asked "What do i do." We responded just plan the seeds and check at least once a day to farm. She asked "Anything else, should I replant the high ql seeds?" and i told her it doesnt matter if its 1ql or 100ql. Just plant, and farm, and eventually you will be good. You know how boring that sounds? Or maybe "How do i quench my thirst, the 1ql lingonberry juice is doing nothing." and hearing "Ah just live near the a water source and drink from it, doesn't matter what water."

 

Funny thing Yiraia, I had no idea you made that suggestion.  I just made the "boiling drinking water" thing up entirely.

 

Point is, there's no way to positively criticize something that I completely disagree with.  I don't want to make it better, I don't want a compromise, I want farming to stay exactly the way it is, therefore there is nothing to criticize.

[Trenix 31]

2 hours ago, Wargasm said:

The majority of farmers use one single crop-  garlic.  While I might plant tomatoes or potatoes on occasion for cooking, 99 out of 100 vegetables I use are garlic for casting on my priest.  If I were forced to "rotate my crops", I'd really have no use for the excess veggies I'd be forced to grow every other week.

 

In addition to being one of the key ingredients to make passata (pizza), being a staple material for grinding natural substances AND being the lightest vegetable for a priest to use for casting, garlic is one of only two grown vegetables that can be used to make a potency 2 healing cover.

 

And there's nothing immature about rolling my eyes at someone trying to over-sophisticate an already complicated game.  Like the moron that suggested we should have to boil/distill our water before drinking it, you are making a suggestion that is unpopular with the majority of the players.... expect negative feedback on this one.

If everyone favors one crop above all others, well then clearly we have a problem with balance already. Also barely is another crop you can grow to get potency 2 for healing covers. As for casting, can't you also use corn and wemp plants? I mean the fact of the matter is, the point of this suggestion is to add more of a challenge. You're not required to rotate crops, you could also use compost, fallow, or use manure. Why not throw in a hoe and plow in to make up for the frustration. A hoe would cultivate faster and the plow will do it instantly when it goes over a dirt tile. Hell, attach a plow to an animal and make it go even faster.

 

1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

 

Funny thing Yiraia, I had no idea you made that suggestion.  I just made the "boiling drinking water" thing up entirely.

 

Point is, there's no way to positively criticize something that I completely disagree with.  I don't want to make it better, I don't want a compromise, I want farming to stay exactly the way it is, therefore there is nothing to criticize.

There is a saying, it goes like "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all". Calling someone's idea stupid, is pretty disrespectful. You know how to bring up constructive criticism, you've just did with the quote above. Therefore is no need for that type of nasty attitude just because you "strongly disagree" with something.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Trenix

[Wargasm 1,927]

Quote

 

If everyone favors one crop above all others, well then clearly we have a problem with balance already.
 

 

 

No, we don't.

 

Quote

 

Also barely is another crop you can grow to get potency 2 for healing covers.
 

 

 

Barley cannot be chopped, and is only therefore useful for baking, making healing covers and for Nahjo priests to sacrifice for favor.  I am not a Nahjo priest.

 

Quote

 

As for casting, can't you also use corn and wemp plants?
 

 

 

Corn and wemp can be sacrificed by a Nahjo priest (raw) for 3 favor each.  Wemp is only useful to a non-Nahjo to create ropes to sacrifice, but it's a slight pain to farm due to the weight while harvesting (similar to cotton).  4 wemp makes three cordage ropes (roughly), and your average rope (using a rare 90 ql rope tool @ 93 ropemaking) comes out to 35 QL, which is only 3-3.5 favor per cordage rope.  3.5 favor for 1.33 "veggies" is not as preferable as getting 5 favor for 1 garlic, which weighs 1/14th as much as a wemp plant and 1/10th the weight of a wemp fiber.

 

Quote

 

I mean the fact of the matter is, the point of this suggestion is to add more of a challenge.
 

 

 

Which has been stated by several players in this thread to be an unwelcomed change, yet you keep arguing.

 

Quote

 

You're not required to rotate crops, you could also use compost, fallow, or use manure. Why not throw in a hoe and plow in to make up for the frustration. A hoe would cultivate faster and the plow will do it instantly when it goes over a dirt tile. Hell, attach a plow to an animal and make it go even faster.
 

 

 

I don't need to do any of that, because farming is fine the way it is.  Dunno how else to tell you buddy.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Wargasm

[Reylaark 1,100]

12 hours ago, Kadore said:

Things like this are the beauty of WU, Wurm Online caters to the masses as a whole, it has some difficulty to make some challenge but not everything is made hardcore to keep everyone happy enough.

 

If want Wurm Second Life you are more than able to mod your perfect survival game and fill it with like minded and willing players, that would be the easiest solution instead of trying to browbeat others to conform to your ideal way of gameplay.

 

I agree that WU would be a better place to suggest this.  I think it fits right in with the winter mod that doesn't allow growing crops in cold weather.  I just like Wurm as close to a real experience as possible.

Drove across the country a few months ago, went past cotton fields.  I immediately knew what they were and thought, "time to harvest!"

I like learning from Wurm.

 

I don't really see the browbeating though.  I actually looked it up : intimidate (someone), typically into doing something, with stern or abusive words.

Dictionary

If anything, I see the usual way people browbeat back anyone who makes a suggestion they don't like.  It's sad really.  It's completely unnecessary and just makes the community of Wurm Online look bad.

[Demonix 79]

-1 for reasons stated in this thread.

[Roccandil 959]

I kinda like the general direction of the suggestion, but I'm increasingly opposed to realism for the sake of realism. Reality can suck, and games can be a way to forget that.

 

So, as a developer, I would ask these questions:

 

- Does the suggestion fix an immersion-killer? Realism for the sake of realism may be undesirable, but lasers in a medieval setting, for instance, would be a real immersion breaker. (In my view, growing crops in winter is farming's worst immersion issue. Following would be the sheer number of harvests we can get per year, and how easy it is to cultivate farmland.)

- Does the suggestion provide more interesting gameplay choices? Given some of the responses on this thread (garlic being the clear best crop, for instance), it would seem there's room to provide more real farming choices. I'm not sure this suggestion provides that, though.

- Would it be fun to play? (Probably not!)

 

The suggestion also feels uneven. That is, farming is fairly simple across the board; thus, giving farming deeper realism in one place, while leaving the rest as-is, is a kind of gameplay unbalance.

 

For instance, if we were to provide a wholesale realism upgrade to farming, at a minimum I'd expect to see the following:

 

- A new tile type called topsoil (or farmland);

- Topsoil can be created by plowing dirt tiles to break up the ground and remove rock shards;

- Dirt tiles gain a "rockiness" rating, so some dirt tiles are more suitable for farming (they produce fewer rock shards, and are easier to convert to farmland).

- Topsoil has inherent QL, can be examined, and can be improved via fertilizing, plowing, and watering, and diminished by neglect or lack of crop rotation;

- Farm animals provide manure for fertilizer, perhaps leaving random deposits on fields, or converting food into manure in stables;

- Distance from farmland to water tiles and/or the water table would matter. "Bottomland" would be the place to farm more easily, since it would require less (if any) manual watering, whereas growing crops at higher altitudes would require more manual effort to keep the farmland irrigated.

 

Also, the following would fit right in:

 

- Rain would be the primary means to keep topsoil irrigated (this also could lead to a more rigorous weather system, in which rain tends to fall in certain places dictated by geography).

- Growing seasons would take much longer, and would not persist in winter.

- Wild animals would eat crops, and might even attempt to break in to do so.

- Crops could get diseased (perhaps balanced by a trait system; growing disease-resistant or drought-resistance crops could be a thing).

 

While some parts of that might be interesting, I can't see it being implemented now; it would wreck too many deeds.

[Kadore 926]

People ask for constructive criticism, then as usual focus on the way answers are delivered etc.

 

Lets makes things real easy, add everything to the game, make it as realistic as possible in all things, make things take as much time as possible and we'll see how it plays out, if subscriptions support your way of doing things you'll know your on the right track.

 

Lets please wait no longer and get all this, boiling water and the rest in the game by the next possible update.