Zuzanazan

Evicted from Serendipity Bay area

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Yaga just unkindly informed me that because he and his friends have deeds all over this place I am not allowed to invite whomever, since I am working on a dock to hand out free boats and other stuff to help out new (and old) players this more or less means I have to leave the area, as I am not about to start some sort of turf war with a CM. Do note that me and my friend who were residing here are both paying customers and we have a deed.

 

The conversation started when I invited someone who said he would leave the server into the area over the Deliverance channel, Yaga then PMd me and the full transcript is as follows:

 

[21:02:43] <Yaga> Better not invite random, unknown people to our area ;)
[21:03:11] <Zuzanazan> why? That is sorta the point of what I am building
[21:03:17] <Yaga> it is a secluded, remote area for a reason
[21:03:35] <Zuzanazan> because no one is invited here?
[21:03:52] <Yaga> Our alliance likes to pick their people, not just let anybody we don't know come and settle here
[21:04:30] <Yaga> You never know what kind of people they are. Have to get to know them first. (We had some bad experience in the past)
[21:04:41] <Zuzanazan> ok, well I am inspired by the open source community where everyone is allowed to contribute
[21:05:21] <Zuzanazan> very hard to judge someones character beforehand, most abuse happens in homes between married people who've known eachother previously very long
[21:05:25] <Yaga> If youz look at our low-scale map you will notice that the area is pretty much taken by out alliance
[21:05:34] <Yaga> *our
[21:05:44] <Zuzanazan> to me it seems you are the only one around
[21:06:28] <Yaga> Not really. Although some of the allies are taking a break currently. (You already met at least 2 of them - or at least Acire did)
[21:07:22] <Yaga> What is your point, by the way? Want to mess with the local population? Not a good start
[21:07:36] <Zuzanazan> being inviting to new players is extremely important
[21:07:46] <Zuzanazan> this is like you are messing with me
[21:07:54] <Yaga> What?
[21:08:53] <Zuzanazan> why are you afraid?
[21:09:40] <Yaga> I am not afraid, but you should respect that our alliance who lives in this area has certain rules and procedures
[21:09:51] <Yaga> You are new, and you cannot know - so I am telling you
[21:10:27] <Zuzanazan> so you are like the mob boss around here and dictate rules about undeeded land
[21:10:36] <Yaga> One of the rules is that we like to pick our new neighbours ourselves. (Btw, that Mathob guy is not new - he has a large deed)
[21:11:27] <Yaga> You are being pretty ungrateful now, do you realize?
[21:11:48] <Yaga> If I remember correctly I have been friendly and helpful to you, so far
[21:11:56] <Zuzanazan> Personally I think your behaviour, especially as a CM, is completely unacceptable
[21:12:03] <Yaga> Why is that?
[21:12:35] <Zuzanazan> as I said, being inviting and including everyone is extremely important
[21:13:23] <Yaga> So I was not inviting towards you and Acire? :o
[21:13:42] <Yaga> See? That's what I call ungrateful :(
[21:13:48] <Zuzanazan> Now you are telling me I cant invite who I want here, that is not very inviting and very unfriendly
[21:14:08] <Zuzanazan> wow, I don't want the protection of your mob, that isnt ungrateful
[21:14:53] <Yaga> And better don't start being rude. Don't call me and my friends a "mob", please
[21:15:05] <Zuzanazan> you want to be alone so badly? Fine
[21:26:16] <Zuzanazan> Also, don't you dare call me rude, the mob reference is an analogy to illustrate how deeply inappropriate your behavior is

 

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Nobody should tell you where not to live or who to invite to your own village.  

 

I will tell you though, speaking from experience, you will enjoy the game more if you don't live next to someone you can't get along with.

 

I can't believe a staff member would do that, especially a CM.

Edited by Wargasm

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The saying deed it or lose it once again rings true.  If you deed an area you are free to invite who ever you wish.  Plain and simple. 

 

Sorry, Yaga, you may enjoy the company of your choosing but as life shows, tis not always realisticly done.

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Welcome to Wurm elite-ism.  I have seen this countless times.  

The rules are Deed it or loose it.  (I know because I lost land when they changed the rule)

So, he can't tell you what to do on your deed.

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Don't let anyone tell you who you can and cannot invite to your deed, its your deed.

Plenty of staff are like this and unfortunately they act as if they have some sort of power in this regard.

Just because he is a CM doesn't mean he can tell you what you can and can't do and believe me he has little to no power to be able able to harass you as staff, and if he does Enki doesn't take kindly to that nor would the LCM.

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I'll back Yaga in that discussion, you have no clue who you could be inviting.

In this case you were a part of an alliance?

Next time just follow the basic rule to talk with the others before inviting strangers.;)

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That is a very cancerous way to look at things. The moment yaga pays this guys prem and deed upkeep he can tell this guy how to play and run his deed. Otherwise he has no right what so ever to tell this guy he cannot invite people to his deed.

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2 minutes ago, Finnn said:

I'll back Yaga in that discussion, you have no clue who you could be inviting.

In this case you were a part of an alliance?

Next time just follow the basic rule to talk with the others before inviting strangers.;)

 

There's nothing to "back".  If I'm not in your alliance, you have no right to tell me who I can invite to my village.  If I AM in your alliance, however, if I invite someone you don't like to my village, it's your right to remove me from the alliance.  

 

Either way, this looks like bullying over territory to me.

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58 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

I will tell you though, speaking from experience, you will enjoy the game more if you don't live next to someone you can't get along with.

 

Yea, heading to the Southport clubhouse.

 

8 minutes ago, Finnn said:

I'll back Yaga in that discussion, you have no clue who you could be inviting.

In this case you were a part of an alliance?

Next time just follow the basic rule to talk with the others before inviting strangers.;)

 

Never even heard of any alliance.

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4 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

There's nothing to "back".  If I'm not in your alliance, you have no right to tell me who I can invite to my village.  If I AM in your alliance, however, if I invite someone you don't like to my village, it's your right to remove me from the alliance.  

 

Either way, this looks like bullying over territory to me.

 

Doesn't matter if they are in the alliance or not.  If they do not like who you invite to your deed, they can take your deed out of the alliance but I'm not sure that is a big loss.  Alliance should be people that you get along with and like talking to.  Just because you live next to someone does not mean you need to be in their alliance.  You can ally with deeds on the complete other side of the server.   

 

I do agree that if you do not get along with the people near you they can make your playtime not so much fun.  I do know though especially with this log that if that happens that you should not be the one to suffer in the end.  But if it was me, unless I was extremely attached to that particular spot, I would move so I was not near the cancer that it is going to become.  I'd rather be somewhere that I did not have to deal with the headache.

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Personally I think scaring people away or being selective is bad for the game. Happened to me a few times on other servers, I have yet to find a decent alliance also that doesn't run this way. I tend to move back to my alliance with only my friend on indy. It works. People really need to get off their high horse and stop with the with cliquishness. We need more players not less. This is a serious issue but it up to the players to fix it.

 

This happens all over @OP, sorry this happened to you.

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@Zuzanazanno need to overthink it than :)

Thought you were part of his deed or alliance at some point.

 

If none of that applies, you're free to do as you like anyway, it's free world for the most part.

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1) Leave the alliance if you are a part of any

 

2) ignore the user ( bit tough with a CM char, perhaps ask Idony the head CM you wish no interaction with a char you lack the ability to block

 

3) Profit??

 

4) Invite who you please, over time become jaded and paranoid like the rest of the game.

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Guys, may I ask you to calm down for a moment, please?

 

Actually I didn't plan to reply to this post, because we really don't need that kind of drama. However, as some of you seem to jump at conclusions and have already found the bad guy in this story, I may have to put a few things right - just to avoid any misunderstandings. Every coin has two sides - just take a few minutes to look at the other side.

 

I totally agree with most of what you said:

  • Every player is free to settle anywhere on undeeded land (as long as no rules are broken and no obvious griefing is involved).
  • Zuzanazan and her friend are more than welcome to stay in the area (in fact I invited her friend to come here and suggested to place a deed in my neighbourhood).
  • Of course they are free to invite other people to their village, nobody is denying them that right.

Ever since Zuzanazan and her friend arrived as new players a few days ago I did my best to help and assist them. I helped her friend to find a nice suitable coastal spot and showed her how to place her first deed. As most of my allies are currently taking a break I was more than happy to have new neighbours, and I told them so. I took them on a sightseeing tour around the area to show them places, our deeds and the surrounding area. I was always there to help and protect. I gave them a horse and some farm animals to start their first little farm.

 

Zuzanazan is not yet a member of our alliance - she isn't even a villager of her friend's settlement, as far as I know. All I intended with that personal message she publicly posted (well, it's not so "personal" anymore now ;)) was to ask her to be a bit careful about randomly inviting unknown people to settle down close to our villages. (That's what it actually was about - not about inviting anyone to their deed.) We had some unpleasant experience with griefing by strangers in the past, so we prefer to be cautious and we like to talk to newcomers first, whenever we can. As I said: everybody is free to come here and settle down - I just tried to sensitize her to possible risks and ask her to be careful! Maybe I should have worded that first line she quoted a bit differently; it may have been not clear enough!

 

Nobody is being "evicted" and nobody is "scared away"! In fact, I was looking forward to having her and her friend as new neighbours. I never expected she would react like this - and cause a public shitstorm about it! I'm sorry if my wording caused such a big mess. (And: being a staff member or not has absolutely nothing to do with this. This is a matter of misunderstandings and, maybe, different opinions between players. No reason for the usual round of staff bashing.)

 

Having read this, you may want to read the original PM text again, and try to spot where I was "unkind" or "evicting" or "scaring away". Everyone who knows me should be able to confirm that I always try to be polite and friendly.

 

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32 minutes ago, Yaga said:

Guys, may I ask you to calm down for a moment, please?

 

Actually I didn't plan to reply to this post, because we really don't need that kind of drama. However, as some of you seem to jump at conclusions and have already found the bad guy in this story, I may have to put a few things right - just to avoid any misunderstandings. Every coin has two sides - just take a few minutes to look at the other side.

 

I totally agree with most of what you said:

  • Every player is free to settle anywhere on undeeded land (as long as no rules are broken and no obvious griefing is involved).
  • Zuzanazan and her friend are more than welcome to stay in the area (in fact I invited her friend to come here and suggested to place a deed in my neighbourhood).
  • Of course they are free to invite other people to their village, nobody is denying them that right.

Ever since Zuzanazan and her friend arrived as new players a few days ago I did my best to help and assist them. I helped her friend to find a nice suitable coastal spot and showed her how to place her first deed. As most of my allies are currently taking a break I was more than happy to have new neighbours, and I told them so. I took them on a sightseeing tour around the area to show them places, our deeds and the surrounding area. I was always there to help and protect. I gave them a horse and some farm animals to start their first little farm.

 

Zuzanazan is not yet a member of our alliance - she isn't even a villager of her friend's settlement, as far as I know. All I intended with that personal message she publicly posted (well, it's not so "personal" anymore now ;)) was to ask her to be a bit careful about randomly inviting unknown people to settle down close to our villages. (That's what it actually was about - not about inviting anyone to their deed.) We had some unpleasant experience with griefing by strangers in the past, so we prefer to be cautious and we like to talk to newcomers first, whenever we can. As I said: everybody is free to come here and settle down - I just tried to sensitize her to possible risks and ask her to be careful! Maybe I should have worded that first line she quoted a bit differently; it may have been not clear enough!

 

Nobody is being "evicted" and nobody is "scared away"! In fact, I was looking forward to having her and her friend as new neighbours. I never expected she would react like this - and cause a public shitstorm about it! I'm sorry if my wording caused such a big mess. (And: being a staff member or not has absolutely nothing to do with this. This is a matter of misunderstandings and, maybe, different opinions between players. No reason for the usual round of staff bashing.)

 

Having read this, you may want to read the original PM text again, and try to spot where I was "unkind" or "evicting" or "scaring away". Everyone who knows me should be able to confirm that I always try to be polite and friendly.

 

Good spin on it, honestly if you have talked to me like that I'd have been more than a jerk in return, you seemed to have an air of " I control how things work in the area " whether meant or not it seems very clear to me from the chat log.

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Sorry, but you can't spin pure intimidation.  "Our area", "pretty much owns", "we choose our neighbors" doesn't sound befitting of a staff member.

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Every alliance I've ever been a part on has had some level of exclusivity, ranging from wanting to veto all potential alliance members to requesting that even villagers be invited cautiously, an alliance has every right to dictate who can and cannot join it and what can be done within it. Just as if those things are not followed, the village in question can be removed,

 

But that aside, this person was not yet a member of the alliance, was just someone in the local area asked to be respectful of those already living there, much like any of you would likely ask a new player building a shack just outside your perimeter

 

I've read through the logs, and I see no situation in which yaga used his status as a staff member, as a player he is welcome to place all manner of requests, and if they're not followed on undeeded land so be it, but he also has the right to remove any village from his alliance for any reason. 

 

Again, these are perfectly acceptable things

 

Now I bet that every person commenting in this thread has grumbled about neighbours ruining the landscape, or deeding right next to you without asking, or repaving/building a road that inconveniences you, asking someone new in the area to run things by you, or to be cautious with who you invite isnt against rules, nor is it against any fair play. Threatening repercussions for not doing so would violate fair play, but in no way did that happen

 

Yaga in no way used his staff position to leverage any result, nor did he threaten any repercussions for not following instructions, he simply requested that someone new to the area be respectful of those around. The person who was asked did not take kindly for whatever reason, and chose to bring this up here. 

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11 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Threatening repercussions for not doing so would violate fair play, but in no way did that happen

 

[21:07:22] <Yaga> What is your point, by the way? Want to mess with the local population? Not a good start

 

This is a threat, a subtle implied one, but stating that it isn't in any way appears overly lenient.

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Thats not a threat at all, it's definitely not a good start to warm relations with the community in the area to ignore any kind information, it';s not threatening harm or a bad time, it's just saying you're going about things incorrectly if you wish to get on with everyone, which in the end, we all do, right? 

 

It's certainly within your rights to do whatever you please, deed it or lose it totally applies.

 

Groups exist everywhere on servers, alliances remove villagers for disputes, people arent invited to events because of past issues, any social game will have these aspects. 

 

A threat would be warnings of harassment or griefing if you failed to follow their guidelines, neither of which are mentioned or even subtly implied, just pointing out that if you wish to get on with everyone in the area, this isn't the way to do it. 

 

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While I have grumbled about a few things in my life, I have never told anyone they couldn't invite someone to their deed with one exception for one person. I have never asked anyone to run something by me unless it was on a deed that I owned and paid the upkeep on.

 

They are not even in his alliance but his alliance has alot of deeds there.  So he is trying to tell them what they can or cannot do when it really has nothing to do with him.   They aren't building a road (in this text) but who knows.  His alliance has rules and regulations.  Again nothing to do with the new guy.  He does come over completely overbearing to me.  If he wants to help someone in some way, that should be what it is.  Nothing that needs to be paid back.  If it needs to be repaid, that is not doing something just to help.  That is creating a debt of some kind.  So exactly which is it that is happening?  The guy doesn't cave so he is called ungrateful because of some 'help' that really in this instance was Yaga creating a debt he wished to call in.

 

If they wish to tell them how to protect themselves from a possible bad apple they might invite, might I suggest that they show them and teach them how to use permissions.  And how much or little they might wish to give someone until they know they can trust them.

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Given permissions are extensive now, it's pretty easy to avoid any issues on alliance deeds, village roles can disable the ability to perform an action on an alliance deed even if the alliance deed allows it, which is something I'd recommend to ANY village taking on new players, for everyones safety. 

 

Asking someone to abide by rough guidelines doesnt cross any boundaries, threats or harassment if they fail to do so would likely fall under GM discretion however. 

 

If you move into my area, and I ask you not to cut down my off deed orchard, I have zero way of enforcing that, it's just a request, if you choose to cut it down, I can be upset with you, and not invite you to my tuesday afternoon tea parties, but I have no standing to push it. 

 

If I tell you if you cut it down I'll dig your perimeter to dirt and learn new languages just to rename abusive signs around your deed, then that would be a clear cut case of abuse or threats.  

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No offence Retro, I never believed it to be an abuse of staff, just that the guy came off as an ######, to validate him by saying anyone that has responded to the thread would do no different is further spin to whitewash the whole thread into " hey guys, we all do this ", you'd be best served to save your smoothing over the masses to your weekly updates on the game.

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This isnt any smoothing over, this isnt an eviction, this was someone asking another deed owner in the area to be respectful of other people in the area as a precaution, given they've had issues with people in the past. 

 

The person in question took it offensively and started this thread, No action has been taken, no harassment, nothing.

Their play is in no way affected by anything here beyond likely not being included in that alliance. 

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2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

This isnt any smoothing over, this isnt an eviction, this was someone asking another deed owner in the area to be respectful of other people in the area as a precaution, given they've had issues with people in the past. 

 

The person in question took it offensively and started this thread, No action has been taken, no harassment, nothing.

Their play is in no way affected by anything here beyond likely not being included in that alliance. 

Just as well lock it and remove it so no one else will ever see the thread, it's quite obvious where this is headed, guessing a friend of yours, I get it.

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