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Getting more players to Wurm - A brainstorming session

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I pointed out the first stage whilst others were thinking about the mid game stage, it then also occured to me we were getting pretty argumentive and focused on a certain part even if it was me that started that, we were arguing about what is more important or not, after reading your points i could see how it was important to also highlight what's down the line but overall really with the replies Nobody was wrong since they both focused on different parts of getting and keeping players, which this thread is about. If I said not dying clothes would help, we'd have more reason  to debate this. B)

 

Would they benefit with a fresh look on site, yup. Would they benefit with more customization, yup. So who is wrong? Nobody, hence my last reply after stepping back, reading the title and noting your points. If that's trolling then ok. 

 

The players i mentioned did quit over the ui.

 

I personally like the ui, but it's about the ones who don't and aren't here, right. And on a side note im super use to the current ui and  not looking forward to learning again :D

 

 

Edited by Mclavin
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It is weird tho how devs have been pumping out these updates, better graphics, better mechanics overall and yet we are declining in player base. 

 

Compared to years ago when rolf might put an update out that month and break ten things that didn't get fixed because it was a weekend. This team is a lot more ready to take feed back and ideas and actually implement them yet we still decline. I think thats why i had my original view of how adding more just isn't helping. 

 

I do feel rolf did a bit of a cash and run with WU

Edited by Mclavin

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I think, best and only solution will be, that WU and WO will be merged together, including full character transfers ofc.

Just a copy of our java based Wurm Online servers, which are then accessible through the Wurm Unlimited Steam client. THAT would bring us plenty of new players, cause they like to play all through steam.

 

I would buy Wurm Unlimited, if i could play with my old Char and on the same Server with the Same people. I hate tiny little player owned servers, would never ever buy Wurm Unlimited just for that.

 

Edited by Daryan_AT

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12 hours ago, Daryan_AT said:

I think, best and only solution will be, that WU and WO will be merged together, including full character transfers ofc.

*Makes WU account with 1000x skillgain* that is possible right? I didn't buy that thing

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Wurm Online needs to go on Steam F2P games, remove premium charge and increase deed costs (maybe triple, see quadruple... Add a curve for deed sizes costs, so that bigger deeds start costing less the bigger they get).

 

-I would see a great increase in player database since you could have 2 avatars without breaking the bank.

-This could make deed owners happy.

-Entice new users to play the game. 

-Revamp tutorial (I must agree, it is bad. I'd rather get thrown directly in the starter town to figure it out myself than do the tutorial). 

-Make it so that there is guaranteed skillgain for every action done until 20 skill is reached. 

 

IT HAS TO BE FUN AND EASY FOR NEW PEOPLE TO TRY! Then, the retainer MIGHT be 10%... But it's still an increase from what we have now. 

 

Not sure how much work that would be, but I'm sure its worth the month of work with paid overtime for the changes :) 

Does Wurm accept private investments with guaranteed returns over the next 3 years?

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Increasing deed costs would drive a good many players out.  Why increase that if you are trying to get more players?  Deeds are an intricate part of the game and the only way to keep your items safe.  Before you say.....join a big deed.  Someone  has to pay for said big deed and most do not ask for assistance from their villagers.  And lots of people do not wish to be a part of a big deed.  And yes I'd wager that is a much bigger portion of the pve side than people in larger deeds.

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I would much rather see larger deed costs and no subscription fees. I guarantee that many new players would stick around if they weren't capped at 20 skill, at which point you can do almost nothing but grind bricks and be a slave of someone elses deed.

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10 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Increasing deed costs would drive a good many players out.  Why increase that if you are trying to get more players?  

 

I think that increasing deed costs while removing the ENTIRE Premium pay system would encourage new players to make their own deed at a portion of the current costs for Premium. 

 

My question is: Would you rather pay 3-4s a month in deed upkeep (on a current 1s deed), or pay for 2 account premiums at the current cost? I guess that yes, it depends on what your needs are, but would cut down costs for about 70% of the population.

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1 minute ago, Budzilla said:

I would much rather see larger deed costs and no subscription fees. I guarantee that many new players would stick around if they weren't capped at 20 skill, at which point you can do almost nothing but grind bricks and be a slave of someone elses deed.

 

I couldn't agree more! Technically, its turning Wurm Online into a complete F2P game with "side-benefits" for people seeking long-term play... Such as costs for deed upkeep, magical chests etc. 

 

I'd be much more inclined to shop in the Wurm shop and spend 20-30$ in silver a month if I didn't have to pay for a Premium subscription :) *Reviving the Kingdom coffers*

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6 minutes ago, Allenkey said:

 

I think that increasing deed costs while removing the ENTIRE Premium pay system would encourage new players to make their own deed at a portion of the current costs for Premium. 

 

My question is: Would you rather pay 3-4s a month in deed upkeep (on a current 1s deed), or pay for 2 account premiums at the current cost? I guess that yes, it depends on what your needs are, but would cut down costs for about 70% of the population.

God no! I'd leave in a heartbeat, not only would that drastically increase my real $ costs of playing Wurm you also FEEL deed upkeep more sharply than premium subscription. It's right there in your face the way buying a few months or year of premium isn't.

 

This plan would effectively cost CCAB both my premium sub AND what I spend on silver for deed upkeep, since even if I didn't leave I'd close up my deed and move in with someone else.

Edited by Darmalus
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6 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

God no! I'd leave in a heartbeat, not only would that drastically increase my real $ costs of playing Wurm you also FEEL deed upkeep more sharply than premium subscription. It's right there in your face the way buying a few months or year of premium isn't.

What if deed upkeep was let's say 20% more expensive but you have no Premium to pay? Rather than 2-3x the current rates? 

 

Also, if you don't mind me asking, how do you feel upkeep more sharply than premium? Don't both end up being a transaction? I feel like a year of subscription is quite sharp compared to 40-50 silvers... 

 

Just trying to see both sides of the coin :D

 

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5 minutes ago, Allenkey said:

What if deed upkeep was let's say 20% more expensive but you have no Premium to pay? Rather than 2-3x the current rates? 

 

Also, if you don't mind me asking, how do you feel upkeep more sharply than premium? Don't both end up being a transaction? I feel like a year of subscription is quite sharp compared to 40-50 silvers... 

 

Just trying to see both sides of the coin :D

 

I buy 1 year of premium once per year,2 minutes and done. if it expires, meh, just premium again and I've lost 2 minutes of gameplay because thats how long it takes to get it back even if it's expired for weeks.

 

I check upkeep frequently, at least once a week (even though I have months of time), because if it expires ALL MY STUFF DECAYS AND GETS STOLEN.

Edited by Darmalus
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4 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

I buy 1 year of premium once per year,2 minutes and done. if it expires, meh, just premium again and I've lost 2 minutes of gameplay because thats how long it takes to get it back even if it's expired for weeks.

 

I check upkeep frequently, at least once a week (even though I have months of time), because if it expires ALL MY STUFF DECAYS AND GETS STOLEN.

Why not have 1 year of upkeep and not bother at all with subscriptions? :) 

Or allow players to buy more "bank space" for a one-time fee?

Edited by Allenkey

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You get discounts buying the premium if you buy in large chunks.

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14 minutes ago, Allenkey said:

Why not have 1 year of upkeep and not bother at all with subscriptions? :) 

Or allow players to buy more "bank space" for a one-time fee?

How about a subscription fee and no deed upkeep? Want to get skills above 20 and have a deed, hand over the money.

 

This smells like the suggestion of someone who doesn't own a deed trying to sneakily ask for free premium by offloading the cost to others.

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8 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

How about a subscription fee and no deed upkeep? Want to get skills above 20 and have a deed, hand over the money.

 

This smells like the suggestion of someone who doesn't own a deed trying to sneakily ask for free premium by offloading the cost to others.

 

No deed upkeep is a horrible idea. There would be no land left to claim in just a matter of days. And we all know how successful the freemium model is in this game....a 20 skill cap means anyone who can't afford prem literally has 0 reason to play. At least if we removed prem costs we would have a plethora of new players joining already existing deeds, because they can actually do something with their time rather than praying to RNGesus they get enough silver from foraging/botanizing so they can maybe afford 1 month of prem time.

Edited by Budzilla
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for a lark I went and ran around the area outside Esert on Exo with a fresh account to have a bit of a "New Player Experience" I can say that in the 2 hours I was able to find 4 mobs to kill with 1FS and only made it to 1.4 FS. I am very surprised that we retain any new players at all if this is what they are seeing on the other servers.

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I think the biggest ways of finding new games these days are on platforms such as Steam or via Youtube and Twitch. Unfortunately it's not the sort of game that makes for exciting Twitch streams so we don't really have a presence there. Would be good if somehow WO was put onto Steam much like WU is. Would get a lot more traffic and people browsing it from the steam store especially since it is free-to-play technically. Would also love to see some better trailers advertising the game, more edgy and updated. Sometimes when I'm not sure about a game I'll look for a trailer on youtube (or for the steam games the one on the steam page). Or on the front page of the game website.

 

I also agree with Mclovin, the website is not very modern. Could really use a facelift and, like some of the other games out there, maybe some more basic info that is a lot more newbie friendly telling people what they can do in the game.

 

But I also think it's hard to try to pull in new players until some of the major updates are done like the UI, religion overhaul etc. I also think that player retention needs to be looked at as well.

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As I have always said and will say again..Always good to make financial decisions, when someone else has to pay for it. Things like, "If you make X change, I will start paying €50 per month".. come on, if you find it hard to pay 8 euros per month and then suddenly will go to 50?

Also Steam and all that. When we look at smaller games, sooner or later the players come up with ingenious idea.. "Let's go to steam, and million players will come". That doesn't happen though, when the games are listed on Steam. There will be initial rush, of course.. but once the novelty wears off, the games will struggle the same as before. You can look steam charts of for example Xsyon, Uncharted Waters Online(think this is now completely gone from Steam, but can still see the numbers from past), Fallen Earth. These are games I have been watching going to Steam from the first idea until now. Steam isn't a magic platform. Just like without Steam, your gama has to stand out.

And let's face it, CC already got experience with Steam too: WU. When it was announced, it was meant as saviour for WO. Even at the devs level there was thinking that "Players will try WU and then come to WO, because WU servers can disappear". How good it was to WO, we know now. My point is, less wishful thinking and more changes based on actual analysis, instead of "I believe, if you do what I want, millions will join", experiences of other games etc.

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7 hours ago, rixk said:

And let's face it, CC already got experience with Steam too: WU. When it was announced, it was meant as saviour for WO. Even at the devs level there was thinking that "Players will try WU and then come to WO, because WU servers can disappear". How good it was to WO, we know now. My point is, less wishful thinking and more changes based on actual analysis, instead of "I believe, if you do what I want, millions will join", experiences of other games etc.

 

I come from WU and I played WU for so long and didn't even know anything about WO... or that it even exisited. Would be great if there was more awareness for WU players that WO exisits. Even when I found out about WO for the first time it was just from other players who had left and all I heard was negative comments. What finally made me want to try WO was when I started getting into PVP on WU and realised that it lacked the population and was having issues with client hacks like no trees and xray vision just as examples. So I turned to WO to try Chaos. My point is that aside from a very small box on the login screen saying "try WO" and nobody reads the login screen.... most players that come from stream probably don't even know WO is a thing. The ones that do probably don't know enough about it.

 

Also this is why we need to look at player retention. If we get better at holding onto new players that an initial rush of new people would be exactly what we need.

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While I've already pointed out a simple yet critical change IMHO.  I think many things need to be acknowledge and reviewed.

 

  1. Most people do not like the idea of dual supporting 2 separate toons, and not be able to use them
    • People can only focus on 1 toon at a time.  This includes all of you dual-, tri-, quad-, etc -boxers.  Even if you do it, it takes focus away from other toons.
    • I tried dual boxing for a year and it was a great deal or frustration as my non-primary toon would spend hours daydreaming of doing an action while slowly starving.
  2. Many people are used to Other MMO's where they are forced to specialize a toon.
    • being able to specialize a toon would be great, however the current system actual punishes any kind of specialist.
    • These specialty toons have guaranteed roles to fill.  Wurm's one toon can do it all, really demands players do it themselves.
    • Due to a lack of quick trade mechanisms in game, co-operative work is hampered.
  3. Wurm has no organized external threat or conflict.
    • Right now, unless you PvP with the current system.  There is no challenge.
    • The two non-player intelligence races (Goblins and Trolls) do nothing other than randomly wander.
    • NPC camp's, villages, forts would give players something to test their skills. 
  4. Deeds do not provide any personal security short of dictatorship.
    • Everything you have on a deed is only truly protected if you are the sole owner. (this pushes people away)
    • Any real thought of control on a deed by a non-owner is an illusion.
    • I'm not saying deed owners should have their authority, this just hinders a lot of people being able to join together under 1 banner.
  5. Deeds will never be cohesive unless you can remove a perimeter so that 2 deeds can be flush together.
    • I was certain that I listed this awhile ago, but in case it's lost to the abyss. 
    • If we want to build towns, then deeds NEED to be able to annex their bordering tiles with a neighbor.
    • Perhaps requiring both deeds to close the gaps with paid perimeter would make a "common area" for the connected deeds?
  6. Ability to rent out a building.
    • Another function that would be rather amazing is the ability to rent out real estate on a deed.
    • Have a mailbox that could be placed on an exterior wall that would also be the focus for renters and landlords?
    • Some sort of in game lease/rent system.
  7. Building Specialty bonuses.
    • Right now, there is nothing more than aesthetics (looking good and not like crap.)
    • A system that would check for clutter near a crafting station, and penalize accordingly.
    • The same system would provide bonuses for crafting with associated equipment.
    • This same system could be used to make tools in player's tile or adjacent be used for improve/crafting/repair actions.
    • This would allow people to not have to carry every tool they own thus opening up more role playing options.

 

Ok, well I'm a bit bored or tired of brainstorming without feedback (not sure which).  Compliment, Rip, Flame, and Extol at your discretion.   

 

Thanks all!

Edited by Tallios

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If we want to build towns, then deeds NEED to be able to annex their bordering tiles with a neighbor.

 

That sounds cool. :)

 

As to character specialization, I know LiF enforces it, although I have no first-hand experience with how it's played out thus far.

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11 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

That sounds cool. :)

 

As to character specialization, I know LiF enforces it, although I have no first-hand experience with how it's played out thus far.

 

Personally, I have pitched an idea behind the scenes to separate deeds into a tile by tile arrangement, so that these gaps could be closed and towns with districts (individual deeds) could be formed.

 

The gist of this concept is simple.  Deed cost is increased based on border edges, just like building a building.  The # of tiles + exterior edges increases the cost of the deed claim.   Which would allow for a great amount of freedom for players to craft very specific deeds.

 

Edited by Tallios

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The problem with no borders has always been those few bad apples that will block an entire area by use of deeds.  While this might not be a problem for most but if you are the one following the edge of the lake trying to find a spot to get up only to find that it is all blocked, you might be a bit upset.  Or perhaps you are trying to find your way up a mountain or even down one only to get to a stop gap that has no way to get around it.  Just my 2 cents having dealt with someone like that in the past.

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2 hours ago, Tallios said:
  1. Deeds will never be cohesive unless you can remove a perimeter so that 2 deeds can be flush together.
    • I was certain that I listed this awhile ago, but in case it's lost to the abyss. 
    • If we want to build towns, then deeds NEED to be able to annex their bordering tiles with a neighbor.
    • Perhaps requiring both deeds to close the gaps with paid perimeter would make a "common area" for the connected deeds?

 

 

 

Reason behind the perimeter is for a safe passage between deed which have you on KOS. There is a 10 tile safe zone where Templars don't chase you. While they are not exactly a threat for experienced players, I have 4 of them on one of my deeds. They slaughter unbranded hellhorses in seconds. Newbie/lowbie players wouldn't stand much chance either. Removing the perimeter will allow me or anyone else to lock any other deed using micro-deeds in order to make someone's life miserable. More rules and support calls to resolve grieffing issues like that.

 

On ‎28‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 6:10 PM, Allenkey said:

Wurm Online needs to go on Steam F2P games, remove premium charge and increase deed costs (maybe triple, see quadruple... Add a curve for deed sizes costs, so that bigger deeds start costing less the bigger they get).

 

 

No, thanks.

 

Removing premium would bring in a lot of problems on it's own, just to mention a few off the top of my head:

Any public slaying would be swarmed with dozens of alts per real person (free blood/hide/scale/whathaveyou). Prices of unique mob drops would plummet.

It would increase workload on the servers without bringing any benefit.

"Everyone" would have a sermon group, one of the few things remaining that bring people to one place.

PvP with hordes of alts would basically be "which kingdom has the strongest machines" and eventually that might become recruiting criteria. Your PC is too slow to handle 10 accounts at the same time? - Go elsewhere.

 

Deed upkeep increase:

 

Many people would reduce their deed size to keep upkeep at the same level.

Many people, like me, would just quit, I'm already paying almost 1g in upkeep for one of my deeds and I have several of them.

People would still be slaving making bulk bricks and mortar, to pay their upkeep instead of premium and the bricks would be higher quality perhaps since no premium required.

 

 

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