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Mclavin

Revise the pvp affinity change for pvp

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i am obviously thinking the same as many others in this thread, dont take something away from pvp which could always only be achieved in pvp

you arent fixing the problem, you are creating a bigger one, even less intent to look into chaos / epic

 

i posted my stance on stuff like this many times, had to post it in here again just to make sure its not gonna be argued like in recent other changes....."but there was only a handful people who were against it"
there obviously are more, but this is getting ridicoulus, and others, me included, dont want to repeat themselves over and over

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1 hour ago, Threap said:

The problems that are trying to be solved by this change are this.

 

1. People from freedom coming to chaos and killing alts or friends for affinities then leaving back to freedom. Or people selling affinities.

2. People killing a character repeatedly to transfer all the affinities to a new character they just bought.

 

Solution:-

 

A. After being on a deathtab you have a 1 hour logoff timer and you also cant leave the server via boat or epic portal for that hour.

B. Every player has a counter "Affinitiestolose" every week this counter increases by 1 up to a max of 5. On death if affinitiestolose is greater than zero they lose an affinity and affinitiestolose is decremented by 1.

 

These two items stop both points 1 and 2 and allow all other pvp mechanics and rewards to be unchanged.

 

 

 

THIS 

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Simple and effective, yeah Threap's idea works.

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you know.... just say players found to be abusing alts for affinities will be banned GG you did it no patch needed. 

 

no need to remove the affinities ..

 

 

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4 hours ago, Threap said:

The problems that are trying to be solved by this change are this.

 

1. People from freedom coming to chaos and killing alts or friends for affinities then leaving back to freedom. Or people selling affinities.

2. People killing a character repeatedly to transfer all the affinities to a new character they just bought.

 

Solution:-

 

A. After being on a deathtab you have a 1 hour logoff timer and you also cant leave the server via boat or epic portal for that hour.

B. Every player has a counter "Affinitiestolose" every week this counter increases by 1 up to a max of 5. On death if affinitiestolose is greater than zero they lose an affinity and affinitiestolose is decremented by 1.

 

These two items stop both points 1 and 2 and allow all other pvp mechanics and rewards to be unchanged.

 

 

 

+1 this. Great idea.

 

This idea allows Chaos to police themselves against affinity sellers. If you come to Chaos to farm an affinity, now you can't leave. You'll be located and that affinity you gained will be taken off you. It stops affinity sales dead on its tracks.

 

The second one is great for stopping someone from cleaning the affinities off someone like Ebo just did. Its a great way to stop over 90% of the affinity farming issues we have encountered. The 10% left over (such as someone kiling their ocassional alt here and there) is not worth worrying over.

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Yeah i'm all for options that allow the players to police things themselves where possible over changes to the game mechanics that affect everyone because a few people took something to an extreme.

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Affinities or just call them skill gain modifiers should come from the food system, armor, weapons, outfits/clothing and tools and lastly actions. For instance you ate some mining food and wear armor with bonuses to mining. For example this armor is mostly cloth but has a chain boot and a rare glimmersteel open helm. but by eatting the food wearing the equipment you gain roughly the same skill gain give or take, as someone with max affinities in that skill (mining). but that set mainly has a mining skill modifier. only because mining was randomly selected on the creation of the armor along with 3 other modifiers for different skills. The armor as is goes up in quality and rarity grants additional % to said random skill modifiers. this would still basically give people affinities but it would be in the form of food and equipment. the meta would change to crafting and boost that economy (freedom anyone?) and to killing people and taking their equipment to boost their modifiers, which in tail would make the best skill mods on an item. Where do can you find items? on people, in villages or crafting. for instance in pvp, you would want modifiers more focused on pvp related skills when fighting, while someone else might want gear more focused towards a crafting or harvesting skill for those reasons. Once that is all ready, remove affinities as they are currently entirely. otherwise 2s for an affinity is cheap, especially if it's a good one. With that affinity system there will always be someone who gets away with farming a friend or an alt, instead of 1 a day to try and not get caught it might be once a week. Why not remove an avenue of unsavory acts, by improving upon something already in the game which is items/equipment..

 

As for the "affinitiestolose" that still doesn't change someone having max affinities not getting the "affinitytheyearned" correct?

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18 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

Yeah i'm all for options that allow the players to police things themselves where possible over changes to the game mechanics that affect everyone because a few people took something to an extreme.

 

If something is done from the safety of a war deed, or any highly protected areas, the policing will be hard. Clear rules will be a step in the right direction... hardcoded solutions, probably not seeing how the code usually 'works'.

 

While i'm hyped for the freedom side, i'm waiting for more (and clear details) on the pvp side. Because the system was abused by a few doesn't means it's bad, rendering it useless instead of having clear rules (and the possibility to let the players enforce them themselves could be an option).

 

But please, lets have the full details before it goes live and is exploited or nerfing badly any side of the game.

Edited by Odynn

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Since almost everyone from this thread agreed that the problem is not the random alt farming made by an occasional freedomer.. but the blatant abuse of killing chaos players for affinity transfer or chaos alts for affinity farming by other chaos players.. policing made by the kingdoms on Chaos will not work, and it will only lead to more and more drama.. just look at the skirmishes thread and see how accurate players are at spotting which one is an affinity farming and which one is regular pvp (excluding the obvious long kill lists..).. everything will turn into an ugly witch hunt.

 

What if one of the top kingdoms starts doing it ? They get 20+ players in their safest deed.. then start killing alts.. who will go to their deed and knock on the door to let them know they are being naughty boys/girls ?

 

The system has to be fair for both the strong and the weak.. If it's actually considered an exploit then both rules and mechanics should prevent it from happening.. not players.. that may or may not have the same timezone.. or may or may not have the time to run around the server all day locating people in random death tabs... and may or may not ride the moral high horse..

Edited by faty

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A rule will not stop people from selling affinities, that is my whole argument from the beginning, this is a PVP server, the second you try to police what a real kill vs a fake kill is you are shooting yourself in the foot. Threaps suggestion does cover it a bit by stopping or making it much harder for those who just cross over the boarder kill and leave, now they are stuck like he said for an hour. But thats simple as well to get past, just hang out at landing or gold coast for a while and there is always down time to chaos and they can sail back off. So does it really stop the transfer? No it just makes it a tab bit harder and gives a bit more risk on their part. If a rule remains in place, (which Wurm was never a game to have stupid rules in pvp side) all that will happen is all affinity trades/sales/transfers will end up being through a black market, (look at all over games with hard rules against something) Again there is no way the gms policing who killed who and if its legit will be possible without them making personal decisions about it and can and will be wrong.. Look at all the random kills at times, there are people who play as Hots and also as Freedom and at times they are ran across and killed Look at wulfgars recent kill against a freedomer, If that kill was done by Ebo we wouldnt have heard the end of it from the cry babies on the server, meanwhile no one gives a rats arse about the kill he got even if it wasnt legit. Gm's are forced sometimes to make stupid decisions because of all the crying some people do.  

 

Part 2 of threaps suggestion only prolongs excessive affinities from being able to transfer, but again how does that stop all the once a month guys from coming over setting themselves up with things to do at either of the starter towns and happen to run up on a random kill? It doesnt.  So stop complaining about stuff that has NO affect on you and just leave it be and police things yourself if you want to.  You realize that using real alts generating and taking the affinity is really much worse then slaughtering a real toon to transfer already received affinities not being generated. Not only that also the actual skill loss involved where as a newb alt has noting to worry about its just a simple affinity generator. 

 

No suggestion so far from players has been balanced but only one sided. The devs suggestion at least adds a new level and a real risk of death for no reward other then the pvp aspect of it which actually affects sales/transfers of affinities of 2 of more affinities because of risk vs reward factored in. Thus the reason why i and many Ebo lean more towards the new system because it at least is attempting to remove the pure reward associated to affinities for kills.  

 

And i want to make one more thing clear, besides TC currently because of being the top group no other kingdom is affected as much and all other kingdoms dont play on chaos for reward of affinities, All other kingdoms who have been the bottom of the pile or just on the other end of tabs (vs TC) they haven't stayed on or came to chaos to fight because oh they will get affinities, all smaller group are on chaos because they want to be and because they want to pvp against some other opponent. So this crying about so many people look forward to the affinities gained is mainly just the upper class. 

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 Maurz, this affects epic aswell, can the guy who lead the mass alt abuse by ebo take TC out his head for one day. It's really sad to see that when ebo interests are stopped, cause it is abuse, they want to see the whole system hurt. As peeps have said you've really changed the way people view your kingdom now. 

 

This isn't about TC. 

 

"UPPER CLASS" LOL

Edited by Mclavin
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As a guy with little to gain except by proxy leaving the affinity system as it was but with stringent measures towards obvious abuse (its not like its such a huge community that we dont know who owns what) is the sensible approach. I'm not against giving freedom a way of gaining affinities either. So I'd personally urge the dev team to find the middle ground. 

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I dont give a rat's rear end over the occasional alt slaying. To be honest, a guy who once a month comes to kill his alt is of little consequence to the game, and it would take him about two years to get his affinities. The issues are those who farm.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but can't you get into a starter deed? Can it be catapulted / lockpicked? 

 

But regardless, affinity sales are so rare that its inconsequential. I think filling pages upon pages of death tabs by the same people is the issue and its what the focus should be.

 

This change addresses that very inefficiently. Its such a bad change that the reason behind it is to stop of affinity farming and sales. Yet it does not accomplish that. You can still roll 10 alts and kill them all and get all the affinities as long as they dont have an affinity you already have. And if you do? Sell it to someone on your pmk for the cost of the alt prem and wait for the next month. Or sell it to a freedomer. It doesn't even stop affinity sales. What it does is nerf the gains from pvpers and give Freedom a pve way to obtain it. 

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16 hours ago, Niki said:

 

 

Please don't add decay on affinities, just why - is your kingdom really this salty right now? You're making me actually dislike you guys now.ike_where_this_thread_is_going-vi.jpg

my kingdom salty? I think you have me mistaken for someone else. Elders dies, Children cry Silver-eyed lion.

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Why are you surprised and angry?

 

Instead of fixing the 'problem' with an actual in-game solution (see: value transfer), it's always just some basement production attitude where you piss off customers first, then later come up with some half-ass solution at your leisure. It's been going on for years, dont expect anything to change beyond some low level reactionary thought processes to perceived problems.

 

tldr; LOL

 

 

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I think the dev's needed to look at the problem more closely.... the affinities received by kills was not the problem, so why take it away.

I problem was someone/s were killing alts repetitively to gain affinities, fight skill and battle rank. Introducing bans on this behaviour was a step in the right direction.

Freedomers selling occasional affinities wasn't the problem, that is how I came to Chaos years ago, and I stayed.

Edited by Evarya

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Affinity transfers been going on for years why the sudden urge last month to lobby for it to stop? Just because your buddies stopped doing it does not make anything different. It appears to me that this uproar over affinity transfers is just more of your meta gaming.

 

You ignored my question before, I will ask it one more time, how did someone getting more affinity's affect your game play?

 

It didn't before and now by the looks of it you will no longer have to worry about affinity's at all.

 

LoL

 

Reap what you Sow

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2 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

Affinity transfers been going on for years why the sudden urge last month to lobby for it to stop? Just because your buddies stopped doing it does not make anything different. It appears to me that this uproar over affinity transfers is just more of your meta gaming.

 

thats like saying hey wrath of magranon was fine as is for years... you know until we linked champs/priests and deleted an entire deed

 

then people wanted it changed.  i wonder why it was so sudden

 

but fwiw many people have been against alt abuse for many years since long before you got here but theres never been a fix its always been play as is and deal with it

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