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Malcore

Why nobody pvps in wurm.

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

 

"Player versus environment, or PvE (also known as player versus monster, or PvM in some communities), is a term used in online games, particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs, and other online role-playing video games, to refer to fighting computer-controlled enemies—in contrast to PvP (player versus player)." -Wikipedia.

 

Yes, PVE is specifically about and only about combat. Everything else (The building, the skilling, the crafting, and the trading) is not called PVE, its called "playing a game". The definition does really help much... Did anybody actually think of this definition or just thought "PvE world" and "PvP world"

 

50 minutes ago, Mclavin said:


so we just ended the pvp convo. Cool. Because you're just repeating what i said about pvp at this point. Yep, what you said are facts and i'm telling you people simply don't like what you are talking about in PvP. Awesome!
Everybody go to their respective clusters and enjoy. Yas!

also ty angel, i didn't think i'd need to explain what i was reffering but you got it in one for me.
idk what clay has to do with PVE and PVP but afk killing a hellhound sounds even more dull. Talking about things to do in wurm PvE, and how as time goes on it gets boring.
I go get clay and get ganked by 3 players. :D Many conflicting info in this chat. Many would say that pvp is so unpopulated you can go out and not worry about others, and you are stating that you get clay and its a gank spank on you.

 


This is a very bad example.

it's more like, I bought a plate of spaghetti but I will only eat half. You're the person who literally said you saw a youtube video of a duel and said no to pvp. So i'm not looking for any more opinions or arguments from you now lol. That had nothing to do with what I used the example on... You said that PvP has more than what PvE has. I stated that because there is more, doesn't mean it should be considered better. Then i said what if you had spaghetti and add more in the form of sprinkles. Some people may like the more, some people may not want the dish anymore. Your example is for something completely off topic from the topic the example i made relates to...

 


Shame on this thread tbh, 85% of it is literally hypotheticals and imaginations, new players looking for a full loot pvp game are gonna come check the forums, read this thread and possibly be turned away. So the "waiting for rng" or "Its not the PvP, its the hype and talking to friends" or the combat videos you showed that made wurm combat look even more horrifically boring wouldnt do it alone? It was also PvE's false comments?

PVE has Nothing on PVP lol. PVP is the Wurm Online package and dream it was built for. You side gamers need to understand you got given a PVE world inside a PVP based game. sorry if this hurts. It doesnt hurt, PvP is awesome, its amazing, and i agree with you, but wurm sucks at it. There is certainly more fun combating a player rather than a predictable computer, but if I had to choose between wurm and another game, its another game. Obviously this is the case with others as well. I remember several people in my village joining discord would play wurm one moment, and when they left they played league of legends (or perhaps some other game, i forget). Obviously they enjoyed PvP as well. Another left for life is feudal and joined a private server that had pvp. There is no doubt that people in wurm PvE world enjoy fighting, but again... Wurm sucks with combat. Also, even if wurm started as full loot PvP (it has right? thats what i heard) I think its pretty obvious what side of the game is dominating, and thats because the fighting is so unattractive we just rather do without it.

@Pandalet@Firestarter

This thread should be locked and slowly allowed to be pushed away - Hurts the game imo and nothing good is coming from this thread except opinions about how clay and afk hellhounds makes pve great. By the way you are talking on the side of pvp, you are making it look even worse :P
and pvpers just shouting back that they can get loot and build dirt walls, no point to this thread apart from turning off people. It was to look at why people don't want to Pvp, and rather than sticking to facts to correct people and seeing the opinions to look at suggestions, you show ugly walls and videos where you stood still to shoot an arrow at a group and walk towards people you targeted while communicating with others. Honestly though...

Quote of the day 

96c7ba17a3e9a6c859fefa732705727b.png
https://gyazo.com/96c7ba17a3e9a6c859fefa732705727b

Are you are Ciray friends? I don't seem to see him pointing out how much of a moron you are behaving.

 

1 minute ago, Mclavin said:

why pvp pve in wurm when you can pvp pve in other better games. 

^ This was actually considered a point today by a certain somebody. This thread is done lmao............................................................................

Aha there you go!!!! That is a good question. There are those who like a simple game, and wurm offers a big variety and there comes a point where the game grows onto you. Crafting in any game is almost always the click of a button with a challenge of going towards the resources. Wurm's challenge is near the beginning of the game if you play by scratch. At that moment where the game is fun (as long as you are okay with clicking the timer several times and waiting) you decide to make goals and set out for them, JUST like you guys do for PvP. Yours are more combat related in PvP, and in PvE we just work on building a world to look nice and progress in contributing to the island. The only difference is you get what you expect when you come to wurm PvE, just really slow in comparison to other games. When you come to wurm PvP starting from scratch, and ready for a good fight against the world with your kingdom, you are presented with crap the moment you target a cow. If you decide to stay longer and hope things get better, the combat is still lack luster. I was talking about it with Pumper earlier and we both easily agree, there is a difference between shooting a creature in wurm with a bow (and by the looks of your video, its the same as a person), and shooting a person in minecraft with a bow. In wurm you go based on skill and heavily limited by the game. Max distance and min distance for wurm. In minecraft, the "max" requires SOOO much planning and knowledge of the path of your arrow, and Pumper and I have gotten several shots (not spammed, only took 1 arrow each time) where we shot people 70-100 blocks away. When that arrow lands, you drop everything you are doing and cheer. Thats just 1 arrow, not the total fight (Usually shots like that would be to knock a person off a ledge to their death, otherwise we wouldnt perform such shots) There is still the communicating between defenders and attackers, accumulation of items, loss of items in combat, etc . Try looking at the videos that get the most views on youtube in terms of PvP and tell me where the PvP audience is at, rather than telling me what the wurm PvP audience loves. We are looking at why people rather not pvp in wurm, not why wurm pvp people love wurm pvp. 

 

Again, before you say "That minecraft stuff is crap" I completely understand you saying its crap, Im talking in the wurm forums. However If you look at the online gaming population as a whole, you can see where people lean towards and why wurm pvp is not popular... pvp people as a whole often don't like things like wurm, pve community as a whole likes wurm as long as they can tolerate a slow pace. I have seen many people join, like, and leave due to money or advanced onto the portion of wurm that is boring.

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12 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

Are you are Ciray friends? I don't seem to see him pointing out how much of a moron you are behaving.

 

Aha there you go!!!! That is a good question. There are those who like a simple game, and wurm offers a big variety and there comes a point where the game grows onto you. Crafting in any game is almost always the click of a button with a challenge of going towards the resources. Wurm's challenge is near the beginning of the game if you play by scratch. At that moment where the game is fun (as long as you are okay with clicking the timer several times and waiting) you decide to make goals and set out for them, JUST like you guys do for PvP. Yours are more combat related in PvP, and in PvE we just work on building a world to look nice and progress in contributing to the island. The only difference is you get what you expect when you come to wurm PvE, just really slow in comparison to other games. When you come to wurm PvP starting from scratch, and ready for a good fight against the world with your kingdom, you are presented with crap the moment you target a cow. If you decide to stay longer and hope things get better, the combat is still lack luster. I was talking about it with Pumper earlier and we both easily agree, there is a difference between shooting a creature in wurm with a bow (and by the looks of your video, its the same as a person), and shooting a person in minecraft with a bow. In wurm you go based on skill and heavily limited by the game. Max distance and min distance for wurm. In minecraft, the "max" requires SOOO much planning and knowledge of the path of your arrow, and Pumper and I have gotten several shots (not spammed, only took 1 arrow each time) where we shot people 70-100 blocks away. When that arrow lands, you drop everything you are doing and cheer. Thats just 1 arrow, not the total fight (Usually shots like that would be to knock a person off a ledge to their death, otherwise we wouldnt perform such shots) There is still the communicating between defenders and attackers, accumulation of items, loss of items in combat, etc . Try looking at the videos that get the most views on youtube in terms of PvP and tell me where the PvP audience is at, rather than telling me what the wurm PvP audience loves. We are looking at why people rather not pvp in wurm, not why wurm pvp people love wurm pvp. 

 

Again, before you say "That minecraft stuff is crap" I completely understand you saying its crap, Im talking in the wurm forums. However If you look at the online gaming population as a whole, you can see where people lean towards and why wurm pvp is not popular... pvp people as a whole often don't like things like wurm, pve community as a whole likes wurm as long as they can tolerate a slow pace. I have seen many people join, like, and leave due to money or advanced onto the portion of wurm that is boring.

I think the reason is you think Wurm Online is an MMO with a crappy combat interface, when in reality Wurm is a MUD with an incredibly intuitive and rather interactive combat interface. What I mean by this is that you easily compare Wurm to mmo's out there and go 'gee, this game is crap.' Again, thats because you are comparing apples to oranges. 

 

Wurm is a game intended to give fans of old school MUD games something they have never had before: An user interface. MUD games are text based games where everything is decided by the roll of the dice: there is no aiming, leading an enemy, timing your strikes, etc. You roll the dice and get your result. 

 

If you dont like rng and reading mounds of text logs, then you don't like MUD games. If you don't like MUD games, you will find Wurm lackluster. But those who enjoy MUD games find in Wurm an experience like no other, and the pvp is an aspect of that. 

Edited by Angelklaine

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32 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

In wurm you go based on skill and heavily limited by the game. Max distance and min distance for wurm. In minecraft, the "max" requires SOOO much planning and knowledge of the path of your arrow, and Pumper and I have gotten several shots (not spammed, only took 1 arrow each time) where we shot people 70-100 blocks away. When that arrow lands, you drop everything you are doing and cheer.

Agreed, and I'm still so proud of myself for those shots lol :wub:

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2 hours ago, Mclavin said:

This thread should be locked and slowly allowed to be pushed away - Hurts the game imo and nothing good is coming from this thread except opinions about how clay and afk hellhounds makes pve great
and pvpers just shouting back that they can get loot and build dirt walls, no point to this thread apart from turning off people.

 

I think it's showing exactly the type of nasty people we have on this game (Who for some reason often gravitate towards PvP). People who want to trash talk others but can't handle when something is thrown back at them, who'd rather hide it from view/act as though it didn't happen.

Thanks for showing just one more reason we should avoid PvP. Let's get right on locking another thread so someone can make another one for you same people to jump in and attack others in, over the same issue.

It's so wonderful to read these every day. (/sarcasm)

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I think the reason why no one from freedom would want to pvp is because it is not going to be easy to compete against the most established players. I have stepped into Chaos before and usually the player who will kill you has godly armor and weapons, tomes, very high skills in archery, weapon skills, etc. 1 very experienced pvp player can take on probably 4 or 5 fresh from freedom pvpers all at once.

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4 hours ago, Nukacola said:

I think the reason why no one from freedom would want to pvp is because it is not going to be easy to compete against the most established players. I have stepped into Chaos before and usually the player who will kill you has godly armor and weapons, tomes, very high skills in archery, weapon skills, etc. 1 very experienced pvp player can take on probably 4 or 5 fresh from freedom pvpers all at once.

Or a couple cunning newer players in plate can take on 3 "godly geared" pvpers at once and walk out with a drake set and moon metal weapons.

 

 

Is not always about gear and skills and godly characters, its also about fighting smart.

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4 hours ago, Nukacola said:

1 very experienced pvp player can take on probably 4 or 5 fresh from freedom pvpers all at once.

If they're 20 str 1 fighting maybe, the outnumber bonus/penalty is quite strong, you won't hit or parry anything if 5 people are targeting you when you're by yourself.

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I still can't get over the fact they don't know what pve means. 

 

Can't believe that apparently if you buy spaghetti you have to add an inedible substance to say you got more, aka to pvp. Don't think they know you pay 1 sub you already got the full plate, you don't add more you eat less. Lol. And that had Nothing to do with what she said??? 

 

Never met such ignorance. 

 

And now she thinks she knows how collectiong clay can be. Can you people make up your mind you say we get killed if we step out off deed then we apparently don't???? 

 

You can try to insult and belittle my points, but you haven't played pvp so you cannot comment on what or what doesn't happen and you can't reply with anything but fabrication. 

 

Ciray, i need an official Moron stamp for her please. 

Edited by Mclavin
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4 hours ago, Mclavin said:

I still can't get over the fact they don't know what pve means. Are you talking about Angel's definition??? Because even you were not going by it. If PvP and PvE is all about combat towards people and computer enemies, then your statement about PvP being 90% building is off... Building is not combat itself, but it is necessary to build to keep your stuff safer. Nobody here was talking about PvP and PvE in the form of Angel's definition from wikipedia. If we look back, plenty of people said "If you think wurm pvp is just fighting, then you have it all wrong" and now Angel comes in saying "PvP and PvE by definition is just fighting, just different targets" to prove me wrong, but not other pvper's comment. Very one sided might I add

 

Can't believe that apparently if you buy spaghetti you have to add an inedible substance (inedible?) to say you got more, aka to pvp(I was stating that maybe some people like sprinkles on their spaghetti, and that it improves the dish entirely. There are others who thing that the addition of something to the dish would simply ruin it. This was a comment based off of you saying PvP is PvE with more. Do you not understand or just trolling?). Don't think they know you pay 1 sub you already got the full plate, you don't add more you eat less. Lol. And that had Nothing to do with what she said??? what... who is she... who is eating less.. what are you saying ?

 

Never met such ignorance. This is coming from the guy that said the area of the game that is more populated is only a side of the game. Even if that was the intention its obviously the more dominating feature of wurm. More islands were needed to fit more PvE players, and after so long you can't even keep your islands at a good population because of how many people don't like wurm pvp.

 

And now she thinks she knows how collectiong clay can be (I was not talking about collecting clay in PvP, I was talking about collecting clay as a new player in PvE. Its one of the more fun trips because you come across things you can't combat against and have to find your way around and not die. If you don't understand something just ask, I'm a tutor and I love to help :D. A persistent one might I add). Can you people make up your mind you say we get killed if we step out off deed then we apparently don't???? Am i she? Is it the cat profile picture. I'm a chemistry major and I decided to make a cation as my profile picture. You really don't understand what im trying to say to you and you aren't even trying to.

 

You can try to insult and belittle my points, but you haven't played pvp so you cannot comment on what or what doesn't happen and you can't reply with anything but fabrication. Your points about enjoying it are valid, because its true. Your points about PvP being the best part of wurm is  an opinion and if there was a survey on which is better for all wurmians that log on... I think the result would be clear (Unless PvPers just have a crap ton more alts to get things done faster). I don't need to fight a person to realize that the way to hit something in the game is boring (Your video was a good example of it), again communication is fun but I have experienced it in several other team based PvP games. 

 

Ciray, i need an official Moron stamp for her please. yep you are talking about me, Im a guy. Because Ciray disagrees with me I will understand why I get a moron stamp. If Ciray doesn't put one on you then I will just see how one sided he is and how much more invalid his stamp is. Its more than obvious that players who come to PvP in wurm don't stick around or even get thrown away by seeing the combat, while PvE players see an awesome environment, one with history, that they would like to contribute to. There are more games out there and you should be able to realize that the options in the world aren't wurm PvE and wurm PvP. Its both of those along with many other games, and wurm PvP just doesn't cut it for the majority of people who LOVE to fight other players in video games. As long as you are okay with a slow pace and you want to build something, wurm PvE is very enjoyable.

 

11 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I think the reason is you think Wurm Online is an MMO with a crappy combat interface, when in reality Wurm is a MUD with an incredibly intuitive and rather interactive combat interface. What I mean by this is that you easily compare Wurm to mmo's out there and go 'gee, this game is crap.' Again, thats because you are comparing apples to oranges. There is nothing wrong with comparing apples to oranges, https://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off-topic-31/poll-apples-vs-oranges-why-oranges-are-obviously-b-484305/. We are talking about why less people PvP. As you can see in that post, a lot of people prefer apples over oranges. A lot of people prefer games that involve interactive combat rather than rolling dice. Even if they like rolling dice, they may not like the slow pace wurm offers. When the challenge server was out I badly wanted to participate but I had no money for prem. I was not into going on chaos or epic though.

 

Wurm is a game intended to give fans of old school MUD games something they have never had before: An user interface. MUD games are text based games where everything is decided by the roll of the dice: there is no aiming, leading an enemy, timing your strikes, etc. You roll the dice and get your result. Sounds like oranges to me. Would this comment be considered down talking wurm or just stating what is it? Just curious

 

If you dont like rng and reading mounds of text logs, then you don't like MUD games. If you don't like MUD games, you will find Wurm lackluster. But those who enjoy MUD games find in Wurm an experience like no other, and the pvp is an aspect of that. and those who enjoy MUD games as slow as wurm consist of a really small population... cool you came up with a reason why "nobody" pvps. 

 

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? It's already been established that pvp is freedom but extras. (you said combat was dull, living on a pve world, ha) you haven't got anything which we haven't, in fact it was said also that pvp has More involved when it comes to the combat yet the cluster referred to as pve has dull combat. Reading back people said they didn't like pvp for the loot drops, skill loss and the fact your work may be undone in a raid, you are the one saying pvpers left because of the combat, but this isn't true. Pvpers left because of bugs/lack of support and at times, unfair gm intervention. Now why should i listen to your opinion on pvp and the combat when you admitted you only saw "pvp"  on a youtube video in the form of a spar which just involves two people hitting each other. You clearly haven't experienced pvp yet you tailor claims that pvpers leave because of the combat? Me and my friends played across four kingdoms in 4-5 years and in that time i met players new and old and they never quit because of the fighting system. Just so you know, wurm subs are down 200-300 since start of January, just so you know pvp never had 200-300 players in December, so this is 90% a pve loss. We've gained 15 new players in our one kingdom alone, all new since January and all the other kingdoms show signs of growth too. Players are not quitting pvp on the grounds you claim, from our view, pvp keeps them around.  You keep reffering to "pve" as the sandbox yet you are limited by rules and mechanics. Understand that pvp clusters are open to all mechanics and are not locked awsy from use and gameplay with that, not locked away from use. 

 

PVP servers have the most beautiful and wide ranging history, from battles, to sieges to areas which were fought for over something as dumb as a passage, to amazing creations and sightly wonders, tell me how freedom has more history over a pvp map in this sense. We don't just have history we have stories of individuals, groups and kingdoms, from tony green getting clay ontop of a mountain, the Mongels ravaging epic and the other kingdoms grouping up to try defeat it and "undrainable" deeds getting drained. Pssh. Don't over do yourself by saying people go to freedom for the history, again this isn't somthing you have over us. 

 

You just replied to angel saying "less people play for pvp" and then you say "nobody pvps" which is it? And as stated, this isn't the case. Yes there is less of a population these days for the pvp clusters But not for what you tried to say. Lol. And read back, most of my points are still true. You don't have any access on freedom to stuff we don't which limit our gameplay. I can do everything you can, but more. 

 

Your points haven't even been true, thats the sad part. 

 

Also why do you assume the players want wurm combat to be fast paced?? Imo, go 10 vs 10 with somthing to lose, i will bet 50 euros you get the "pvp shakes"(have you even had this feeling) and cannot keep up with the basix requirements of watching your stam, calling for heals, hell i bet you can't even dehorse sombody. You are trying to tell us we need faster pace pvp but infact we have pvp shake inducing heart pounding adrenaline pvp. You really need to experience that then come back and tell me players left because of the combat. You haven't touched wurms pvp, again, i will invite you to come try then you can come back here and give ba real reason with experience behind it as to why pvp is bad, until tben i would stop begging ciray to come to your side because Ciray has played even longer than me and will never side with your view simply because it isn't realistic. 

 

Again, come to my kingdom and try real pvp. Or keep pretending you know what pvpis in wurm. I don't choose any other game for full loot pvp, with terraforming over wurm. Name me one right now that has the systems in place that wurm does, or similar. I've played many, i still choose wurm pvp because it pulls off the balance between time invested, persistent, sanbox pvp. 

 

Your horse and gear is waiting if you want it. 

 

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15 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

 

"Player versus environment, or PvE (also known as player versus monster, or PvM in some communities), is a term used in online games, particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs, and other online role-playing video games, to refer to fighting computer-controlled enemies—in contrast to PvP (player versus player)." -Wikipedia.

 

Yes, PVE is specifically about and only about combat. Everything else (The building, the skilling, the crafting, and the trading) is not called PVE, its called "playing a game".

 

 

Ehm..... Player vs ENVIRONMENT.  That includes the monsters but is in no way restricted to them.  Some games (including a WU mod) have the weather and such play against you too.  That's why in some games the distinction is made and PvM (Player vs MONSTER) is used instead.

 

Let me further clarify:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/environment

 

 

Back on topic..... 

 

So if you don't PvP, and someone asks why more people don't PvP, your opinion doesn't count.  The only valid opinions on why people don't PvP come from people who PvP, not those who don't.  Funny how that works.... 

 

Y'all don't like the state of affairs on PvP, Epic and Chaos have made that brutally clear and quite frequently so.  Y'all also shun any ideas that don't come from your tight-knit inner circle.  Y'all also shun any input from people answering YOUR questions regarding why more people don't join (at least you're consistent on not accepting external input).

 

So if PvP isn't going the way you'd want it to, and only your opinions are valid.... sounds to me like you have no one to blame but yourselves for the low numbers.

 

And that's why so few people PvP and that's apparently why devs seem more focused on Freedom stuff lately:  The general PvP community (or at least its ultraloud component, apologies to the more reasonable ones left in that cesspit).

 

 

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Only reason I still play this game is because of the PvP servers. Also anyone who thinks adding new furniture or textures will save this game at this point are just delusional. 

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1 hour ago, Mclavin said:

Now why should i listen to your opinion on pvp and the combat when you admitted you only saw "pvp"  on a youtube video in the form of a spar which just involves two people hitting each other.

 

Quoting out of context, but if you're asking why more non-pvp people don't try pvp, then perhaps you should listen to the opinions of as many non-pvp people as possible.  Even if you don't like them.  The big difference between pvp and pve is that pve works fine on your own or with a group, but pvp only works with a group.  So it's a little wierd that pvp also seems to attract some of the most anti-social players we have (I'm NOT pointing fingers at anyone particular in this thread either).

 

And, for what it's worth, as an epic refugee, I love the new furniture and colours and textures (the old textures were better, of course).  They're part of what keep me playing.  I guess I don't count as pvp anymore, though - I doubt I'll go back now.

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5 hours ago, Yiraia said:

 

 

So does less people play or does nobody play? Which is it?

 

MUD games have a very small following. But that is not why less people pvp. That is why less people play Wurm. I am sure you have noticed, Wurm has a very small community, and by small I mean small (about 600-700 people on a peak times?) That is incredibly small. There are even coop and multiplayer non mmo's out there that have a larger population.

 

To add a bit more to what Mclovin said, a month or two ago we were having fights and activity on Elevation with over 50 players logged in and active. Thats more people than some of the smaller Freedom servers. Then as of about a week or so ago, both groups who comprised of the majority of the pvp population on Elevation up and left the server. The reason? They are fed up with the inattention from the developers towards the pvp community: game breaking bugs, troublesome mechanics recently implemented, the changes to the skill system which forced everyone to freedom... Most of them simple things that could be fixed in a weekend's time.

 

When you spend money or great amounts of effort obtaining your gear, and then you loose it because of an embark bug or because massive, random disconnects, you tend to loose your will to play.

 

This is why many pvpers have chosen to quit or go to Freedom, not the combat system.

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This conversation has been played out countless times in countless game and it's always the same thing - people who enjoy PvP and think its the greatest thing since sliced bread want to share this joy with the other 90% of the players in the game who would really rather not and continue to grow potatoes or bake bread or what have you.

 

PVPers, you like that playstyle and that's cool - you do what makes you happy.  All we ask is that you don't try to drag people who don't want to deal with a PvP environment into your world.  There will be some who are curious and may end up joining you but that's about as good as it's going to get.

 

PVEers, perhaps we shouldn't reject the notion of visiting a pvp server to see what it's all about and make a decision from there.

 

Personally, I've had enough experience in MMOs and MUDs to know that PvP really isn't for me - if I want a PvP competitive enviornment I'll play an FPS where it's more about skill than how much time or money is sunk into the game by each participant.  My gaming time is limited and I would like to make the most of it.

 

Can we all just agree to disagree and play the game as we like?

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5 hours ago, Mclavin said:

? It's already been established that pvp is freedom but extras. (you said combat was dull, living on a pve world, ha) you haven't got anything which we haven't, in fact it was said also that pvp has More involved when it comes to the combat yet the cluster referred to as pve has dull combat. You still fail to understand the sprinkle analogy. Reading back people said they didn't like pvp for the loot drops, skill loss and the fact your work may be undone in a raid, you are the one saying pvpers left because of the combat, but this isn't true. So you are relying on the information of PvE players that stuck to the game and are more into wurm? Not everybody that plays wurm PvE also goes on the forums. I have met many people that never stepped foot on the forums to avoid people like us XD. I know people who left because of combat and they aren't going to be looking at the forums.  Pvpers left because of bugs/lack of support and at times, unfair gm intervention. Sounds like people you were around more, aka people who liked/tolerated the combat. Now why should i listen to your opinion on pvp and the combat when you admitted you only saw "pvp"  on a youtube video in the form of a spar which just involves two people hitting each other. Because there are 2 things in that video. Great communication and crap combat. I see how you shot the bow, and I see how you swing your sword. I love the communication but I will move elsewhere just like other pvp lovers. You clearly haven't experienced pvp yet you tailor claims that pvpers leave because of the combat? The combat is the method of swinging and shooting a bow to me. Me and my friends played across four kingdoms in 4-5 years and in that time i met players new and old and they never quit because of the fighting system. You don't need to join a kingdom to see if the combat sucks lol, you just need to step out and try to fight the nearest pheasant. Just so you know, wurm subs are down 200-300 since start of January, just so you know pvp never had 200-300 players in December, so this is 90% a pve loss. Nice way to look at the information. It couldn't POSSIBLY be anything else other than the fact that PvE sucks and PvP rocks right??? wrong... Near the end of december and beginning of january is an event where premium players get a 1 time only gift that can not be acquired by any other means. Yule goats, Yule deer, picnic baskets and other treats, stuff a person who prefers a defensive base rather than attractive base would not care about. Where is Ciray to call a PvPer a moron for twisting information XD seriously.  We've gained 15 new players in our one kingdom alone, all new since January and all the other kingdoms show signs of growth too. How many kingdoms are there? Players are not quitting pvp on the grounds you claim, from our view, pvp keeps them around. Look at your population... There are plenty of gamers out there and your population increases at the slowest rate and I barely see new faces, mainly old faces in pvp for the forums. Not much is changing over there. The only recognizable new face to me is Roccandil, and then a crap ton of new PvE people I can't even keep track of. You keep reffering to "pve" as the sandbox yet you are limited by rules and mechanics You can view us as being limited because we can't attack one another, but we view you as limited because of the amount of time you need to spend on defending yourself. We have all the time to build what we want without the disturbances of other players. Understand that pvp clusters are open to all mechanics and are not locked awsy from use and gameplay with that, not locked away from use. 

 

PVP servers have the most beautiful and wide ranging history, from battles, to sieges to areas which were fought for over something as dumb as a passage, to amazing creations and sightly wondersThe history must be interesting, but the fight involved in it was boring as hell, tell me how freedom has more history over a pvp map in this sense. Everybody witnesses their own event and develop history, just not something we "fought" over. If I go back onto release and head left of spawn I will find the area I began playing the game like 4-5 years ago as a non prem that wish he had the money to continue (I started the game like maybe 14-15yrs old?). There I had issue fighting things and back then, everybody i saw wore chain, leather, and occasionally plate. I never met a person in dragon or drake. They were all nice and very generous, offering the fish they got and safety from a spider den that spawned a bunch of greenish cave spiders. If I go back there I'm probably going to see the same canal, but another home developed there and it would have a lot of meaning to me. I completely understand if that means nothing at all to you. We don't just have history we have stories of individuals, groups and kingdoms, from tony green getting clay ontop of a mountain, the Mongels ravaging epic and the other kingdoms grouping up to try defeat it and "undrainable" deeds getting drained. Yeh we don't like the fighting Pssh. Don't over do yourself by saying people go to freedom for the history, again this isn't somthing you have over us. I didn't say we have it over you, you said "Why PvE" and I said history is one of it. Wurm pvp def has history as well I bet, but why bother when other games also have historical events and BETTER COMBAT.

 

You just replied to angel saying "less people play for pvp" and then you say "nobody pvps" which is it? And as stated, this isn't the case. Yes there is less of a population these days for the pvp clusters But not for what you tried to say. Lol. And read back, most of my points are still true. You don't have any access on freedom to stuff we don't which limit our gameplay. I can do everything you can, but more. You aren't understanding that what you state are factual but can be interpreted in several different ways. Lets say there are 2 actual sandboxes in a playground suitable for 10 kids each. 1 sandbox allows you to build whatever you want and tear down whatever you want by throwing sand around (not just kicking with feet). Another sandbox allows you to build whatever you want and you may not disturb anybody else's place. The sandbox that represents PvP has 2 features and the sandbox in PvE has 1 feature. Boom you have more features and we are viewed as limited. However the people in the PvP sandbox have to build strong walls and focus less on attractive stuff in order to prevent getting their base destroyed. the people in the PvE sandbox are able to build weak frilly walls (hopefully enough to withstand wind) and if possible, even take the time to make the land around them nice and interesting, maybe even pick up a few twigs around the playground and furnish the place. In the PvP sandbox you can do that, and then see it collapse because somebody has the urge to destroy it. Viewing it like this shows that the additional feature changes everything completely, and makes it so some people simply don't want to join PvP. This is a good way to look at one of the reasons people are on PvE and not PvP. Combat itself is one the reason why people PvP on other games and not in wurm. There are several audiences, and its not easy to say its just 1 reason.

 

Your points haven't even been true, thats the sad part. You are simply blind due to the fact you love it so much. And I don't plan on changing your mind but i enjoy seeing you talk in such an erratic form. You don't usually see somebody sound so dumb in public so I'm enjoying it while it lasts.

 

Also why do you assume the players want wurm combat to be fast paced?? Did i say fast paced combat is prefered for wurm????Or did i just say the game was slow in general. I was refering to obtaining materials and crafting when it came to pace. Imo, go 10 vs 10 with somthing to lose, i will bet 50 euros you get the "pvp shakes"(have you even had this feeling) and cannot keep up with the basix requirements of watching your stam, calling for heals, hell i bet you can't even dehorse sombody. Oh dude I know the Pvp shakes. I once did a 10v1 in minecraft on a game of eggwars. I don't expect you to know what that is but when spam pvp was allowed in minecraft my team's egg was destroyed and all my teammates died while i collected materials. I then killed people 2 to 3 at a time, occasionally knocking people off of bridges until I got into their base and destroyed their egg (Against 10 people!!!). Then I fought several groups of people (They all didn't pile on because some needed resources and would die instantly) and I destroyed them all while wearing gear worse than most of them. I prefer calling it the PvP jitters, but yeah I had them. At 10 people i felt hopeless and just tried to play. After taking their egg down i realized the chance to win and thought to myself "I can't screw this up, oh crap oh crap" and then took people out while shaking until I won the whole game for my team. You are trying to tell us we need faster pace pvp but infact we have pvp shake inducing heart pounding adrenaline pvp. You guys must have weak hearts if you are shaking over losing the gear you supposedly have LOADS of due to grinding, and combat where its a bunch of dice rolls lol. You really need to experience that then come back and tell me players left because of the combat. Trust me when I tell you I have experienced the same feeling you have but with a different game, and im simply not going to drop down into a less interactive game to have the same communication.  You haven't touched wurms pvp, again, i will invite you to come try then you can come back here and give ba real reason with experience behind it as to why pvp is bad, until tben i would stop begging ciray to come to your side because Ciray has played even longer than me and will never side with your view simply because it isn't realistic. And your views are realistic in saying Wurm PvP is amazing and you only don't like it because you haven't tried it? We can see whats going on and you really think because we don't know how its done we wont enjoy it.

 

Again, come to my kingdom and try real pvp. Or keep pretending you know what pvpis in wurm. I don't choose any other game for full loot pvp, with terraforming over wurm. Name me one right now that has the systems in place that wurm does, or similar. I've played many, i still choose wurm pvp because it pulls off the balance between time invested, persistent, sanbox pvp. Maybe you have plenty of time to invest then, I don't and other games allow less time to be invested and much more enjoyment for me.

 

Your horse and gear is waiting if you want it. I would not waste money on wurm PvP, premium isnt worth it. Combat isnt either. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Yiraia said:

 

 

But really, you should try it before you knock it.

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1 hour ago, Yiraia said:

 

I am not sure what are you trying to accomplish by typing your responses inside the quotes of someone else, but I want you to know its cancer to read and I am done reading it lol. Not going to bother anymore.

 

At least on the previous ones you were going paragraph by paragraph, which in itself is pretty bad. But now you are mixing your responses inside the paragraphs of whatever the other person replies. I am just going to assume you are saying something nonesensical and move on from there.

 

My God.

Edited by Angelklaine
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This is what I see.

 

e9fb162554b484bcff4838cf464db227.png

 

Really? lol I rather not have to reread every person's other posts to try and figure out what you are trying to say.

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Tbf I do consider Mclovin a moron, but for different reasons than why I consider you to be one, Yiraia. You speak as if you know Wurm PvP without even trying it. You are entitled to your opinions just as any of us are, but you're continually try to state facts about Wurm PvP whilst comparing it to other games, when Wurm PvP in itself is truly unique and unlike any other game.

 

You can get a sense of what Wurm PvP is like from the videos, but you can't truly understand PvP without experiencing it first. This is why I agree with Mclovin on 90% of his points; he and I share the same opinions because we've done our fair share of PvP in Wurm. Thus, we know a thing or two about what we're talking about.

 

17 hours ago, Corsan said:

 

I think it's showing exactly the type of nasty people we have on this game (Who for some reason often gravitate towards PvP). People who want to trash talk others but can't handle when something is thrown back at them, who'd rather hide it from view/act as though it didn't happen.

Thanks for showing just one more reason we should avoid PvP. Let's get right on locking another thread so someone can make another one for you same people to jump in and attack others in, over the same issue.

It's so wonderful to read these every day. (/sarcasm)

I've met plenty of 'nasty' people on freedom servers who steal, take advantage of people, screw with highways, and deed large portions of lands just to spite their neighbors. Just look at all the name and shame threads on the forum; 90% of them involve freedomers. So saying that PvP players are nasty people is incorrect, and quite frankly rather prejudiced. At any rate, at least on a PvP server you can do something about these so called 'nasty players'...

 

"If PvP and PvE is all about combat towards people and computer enemies, then your statement about PvP being 90% building is off..."

Whilst his statement might be partially off, there's still a fair bit of building done during PvP. When a deed is being raided, the kingdom being raided must repair and rebuild to keep its invaders out, often times during PvP. You might've known this if you PvP'd in Wurm prior to posting in this thread.

 

"This is coming from the guy that said the area of the game that is more populated is only a side of the game. Even if that was the intention its obviously the more dominating feature of wurm. More islands were needed to fit more PvE players, and after so long you can't even keep your islands at a good population because of how many people don't like wurm pvp."

Let us not forget that the Devs have been focusing far more on PvE for years now, even whilst there was still a sizable group of PvPers between all PvP servers. If you're really wondering why freedom has become the superior cluster it's simply because of the lack of dedication by the devs to improving PvP. When there are bugs and broken mechanics that are left untouched for years, coupled with the lack of content being introduced to PvP whilst freedom gets new furniture nearly every update, PvPers get rather frustrated and begin to leave the game. 

 

Now, as for more islands on PvE, there were never enough freedomers to fill the initial servers (Independence, Deliverance, and Exodus) that were opened and once the new servers (Celebration, Release, Pristine, and eventually Xanadu) were opened the population per server thinned considerably as a result. PvP had nothing to do with this. 

 

"(I was not talking about collecting clay in PvP, I was talking about collecting clay as a new player in PvE. Its one of the more fun trips because you come across things you can't combat against and have to find your way around and not die."

If you think collecting clay in PvE is fun because you "come across things you can't combat against and have to find your way around and not die," then you should definitely try PvP. Trying to run from a mob of enemies, or even trying to fend them off, can be quite exhilarating and isn't as boring as the videos can sometimes make it out to be. And if that isn't enough for you, Epic has Valrei creatures that, with the new creature AI, especially, make combat much more interesting. Definitely worth a try if you're looking for a 'fun trip!'

 

"Its more than obvious that players who come to PvP in wurm don't stick around or even get thrown away by seeing the combat, while PvE players see an awesome environment, one with history, that they would like to contribute to."

This is not always the case, and again, you'd know this if you actively contributed in the PvP community. Whilst Epic is obviously failing (do to lack of dedication by the devs to the cluster), Chaos has been seeing a steady rise in player count, many of which are actually new players. Wurm University, for instance, has slowly been training its players for combat and have recently become a force over here on Chaos, with 10-15 new fighters getting in on the action. Additionally, in the past month alone, I've seen upwards of 7-10 new Freedom Isles players skilling up around the various starter towns across the server. Despite the occasional death, which comes with living on a PvP server, they seem to be enjoying their stay and are often given advice/help from established kingdoms to give them a better chance at survival.

 

Now, about that 'awesome environment.' Chaos (Wild), being the oldest server to date, has the most history in the game. Just take a look at the map and you'll see it's covered in ruins of old deeds. I don't know about you, but seeing all those ruins really made me wonder what the heck happened; why the deeds were placed there; who owned them; how/why did they fall? 5 years ago I started getting these questions answered when I, a freedom newbie with no PvP experience, decided to try out Chaos. I've been a full time PvPer ever since. Spend some time on Chaos and I can assure you you'll learn the landmarks, what they stood for, and who knows, maybe you'll make some history yourself! 

 

Now, with that said, I'm done arguing in this thread. I think this thread was intended for a different purpose and by continuing to post here I'm just feeding the trolls and those who wish only to argue in favor of freedom over PvP. We've all heard 100 times from the same 10 people why they do/don't like PvP, and it's clear this has become nothing but a public pissing match. 

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Yule goats, Yule deer, picnic baskets and other treats, stuff a person who prefers a defensive base rather than attractive base would not care about. Where is Ciray to call a PvPer a moron for twisting information XD seriously.



d9d8d0f96576a015eaf98b3315ff249d.png

 

It's ok, keep implying things :D

Edited by Mclavin
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im slowly gonna break down her replies with pictures, give me a day.

Edited by Mclavin
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Oh dude I know the Pvp shakes. I once did a 10v1 in minecraft on a game of eggwars

 

IM DONE. NO NO NO NO NO NO

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Thread looks like a pve vs pvp thread lol,

 

wonder what camp I belong in as a pve carebear who has played on pvp servers for years without doing much pvp

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ust so you know, wurm subs are down 200-300 since start of January, just so you know pvp never had 200-300 players in December, so this is 90% a pve loss. Nice way to look at the information. It couldn't POSSIBLY be anything else other than the fact that PvE sucks and PvP rocks right??? wrong... Near the end of december and beginning of january is an event where premium players get a 1 time only gift that can not be acquired by any other means.


Population is dropping across the board, pvp always had the less players so it looks like we got impacted more than PVE, but the truth is PVE lost 659 players since this time last year, thats a 20% drop.

Oh right, pictures only.

72d68893229490ae0c6b0591c7a8fa1e.png

 

So your saying the christmas event almost brought us back to post christmas event numbers last year? But we tanked even lower after :D

Edited by Mclavin

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