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Why nobody pvps in wurm.

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Just now, Mclavin said:

so fighting that troll has more penalty than the player.

I hate when trolls loot my items after killing me

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6 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

You lose 8 skills in PVE, so fighting that troll has more penalty than the player.

I know right, you gota hate it when that troll takes 100e worth of gear :(

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13 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

I hate when trolls loot my items after killing me

In 1v1 you loose gear. In group fight, your death doesn't mean that you loose your gear.

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res stones are also a thing.  if one can afford to use 100e armor vs wildcats in pve then they can afford a res stone for a chance to keep gear, or priest up and get it for free

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35 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

If affinities aren't gained in combat by the killer, the affinities go "poof", right? If so, I'm thinking the total number of affinities on Epic, at least, has to be dropping, because now the only way to add to the total lootable affinity pool is PvE grinding.

Correct. But also notice that all these freedomers coming over to Epic from freedom only have ONE affinity to begin with, and since no one is grinding on epic there's literally NO CHANCE of getting an affinity from them when you kill them. And since most of the skilled accounts with several affinities on Epic are rarely dying, the actual number of affinities changing hands is EXTREMELY LOW.

 

Same goes for Chaos. Many of the players actively PvPing these days (apart from TC and Panda players) are new blood, meaning they only have one affinity to begin with. So when someone does get a kill the chances of getting an affinity are very slim to none. 

 

To put this into perspective, imagine you're new to Chaos and you've only got 1, maybe 2 affinities (from grinding) and you manage to finally get a solo kill. You're excited because, not only have you just gotten a solo kill, but this also means you have a 100% chance of getting an affinity because you're the ONLY killer on the tab. But wait, the person you killed only had one affinity to begin with so now you don't even get that sweet affinity that was guaranteed to you! Kinda sucks, eh? 

Edited by CIRAY
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5 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

res stones are also a thing.  if one can afford to use 100e armor vs wildcats in pve then they can afford a res stone for a chance to keep gear, or priest up and get it for free

In a PVE death there is pretty much a 100% chance you get to keep your gear

In a PVP death with a rez stone that works 50% of the time, there is still relatively big chance you will lose gear

Therefore that point "troll has more penalty than the player" is pretty much invalid

 

Then again context is important, say Big kingdom vs Small kingdom

Idk, what do I know right :P

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1 hour ago, Yiraia said:

I hate when trolls loot my items after killing me


there is more skill penalty from PVE, which was what I was replying to.

You're very clever tho :D

But yes, PVE = more skills loss than PVP and you get no reward from a troll except some FS and a huge club. 
I'll take my chances with less skill loss and more reward.

Edited by Mclavin
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PVP = take what you're prepared to lose. Don't want to lose items I got a very good tip, don't die.

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3 hours ago, Mclavin said:

PVP = take what you're prepared to lose. Don't want to lose items I got a very good tip, don't die.

Not to mention if you lost 100e of gear then its because you -chose- to loose 100e of gear. If all you use is your kingdom supplied equipment, you loose 0e. Most pmks supply you with whatever you need.

 

Thats always the excuse against pvp. The money. The value of things. How about you dont buy stuff and earn what you need through normal gameplay? Then you wont loose anything, right? Value on a videogame is whatever price you give it. 

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7 hours ago, CIRAY said:

To put this into perspective, imagine you're new to Chaos and you've only got 1, maybe 2 affinities (from grinding) and you manage to finally get a solo kill. You're excited because, not only have you just gotten a solo kill, but this also means you have a 100% chance of getting an affinity because you're the ONLY killer on the tab. But wait, the person you killed only had one affinity to begin with so now you don't even get that sweet affinity that was guaranteed to you! Kinda sucks, eh? 

Now imagine that you are new to Chaos and the one killed and you had only one affinity, a good one that you like, and you didnt loose it! Kinda doesn't sucks, eh?

Edited by kochinac

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6 hours ago, Mclavin said:

PVP = take what you're prepared to lose. Don't want to lose items I got a very good tip, don't die.

Well there is your answer to this thread, people aren't prepared to lose :D

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3 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

.....

Thats always the excuse against pvp. The money. The value of things. How about you dont buy stuff and earn what you need through normal gameplay? Then you wont loose anything, right? Value on a videogame is whatever price you give it. 

You lose time. The time you have spent into earning stuff, THIS is what gives value to things, not whether you buy it for silver.

And this is what is wrong in Chaos/Wurm PvP in general. Things that might have required hundreds of work hours, can be destroyed in a heartbeat. Be it demolishing someones deed and/or looting stuff.

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2 minutes ago, rixk said:

You lose time. The time you have spent into earning stuff, THIS is what gives value to things, not whether you buy it for silver.

And this is what is wrong in Chaos/Wurm PvP in general. Things that might have required hundreds of work hours, can be destroyed in a heartbeat. Be it demolishing someones deed and/or looting stuff.

 

can be the other way to.

I'm in one of the weeker kingdoms that gets killed quite easy and we loose stuff all the time, but in euro value we still is on the plus.

We lose plate armors and regular enchanted weapons, but when we win we loot drake and MM items.

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Just go out in low value gear thats fast to replace, get that path of insanity started while practise pvp with cheap gear and get used to it, in just a month or 2 you are good enough to be realy usefull.

We have ppl that have been saying they will never go pvp in Wurm, but when they come over just to try it it's been like "screw freedom this is the way the game should be"

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9 hours ago, rixk said:

You lose time. The time you have spent into earning stuff, THIS is what gives value to things, not whether you buy it for silver.

And this is what is wrong in Chaos/Wurm PvP in general. Things that might have required hundreds of work hours, can be destroyed in a heartbeat. Be it demolishing someones deed and/or looting stuff.

The problem I can see is everyone assumes that you will have to sit down and imp everything you lost for hours on end until you replace it all. Or cast. Or buy it with your silver. This is a completely wrong assumption.

 

Most people have something they want to.grind on. Hardcore pvpers spend their downtimes digging clay or making mines and tunnels, thus making resources others can use. Crafters continuously make platesets or weapons or shields to skill up on. Blacksmiths make tools or horseshoes. A healthy pmk has either crafters or extra loot from pvp, or both. You will have your own skill you want to level up too.

 

All these players combined generally create a surplus of gear and materials that gets stashed away for later use. Unlike people on freedom who have no use for extra gear and end up smelting it or selling it, these players put it to good use by pooling resources. When the unthinkable happens and you die, being on a healthy pmk allows you to simply go to your group's storage, regear with these surplus equipment, and get back out there to participate once more. 

 

Now some people would of course look at their bank accounts and pat their wallets and say "I rather just sell everything I make and make a few bucks for my slush fund." In this case, then yes, you are correct. These people have no business in a pvp kingdom. I would even argue and say they have no business in a videogame. When the sole purpose of their gaming experience is to support themselves, then they are playing for the wrong reasons and this is never a proper argument towards any game activity and thus has no validity in a discussion as this one.

Edited by Angelklaine
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10 hours ago, kochinac said:

Now imagine that you are new to Chaos and the one killed and you had only one affinity, a good one that you like, and you didnt loose it! Kinda doesn't sucks, eh?

Risk of PvPing, my friend. Its not like you don't get a new affinity over time or anything, or have a chance at getting that affinity back (or a better one) through PvP. 

 

I can't even begin to tell you how many good affinities I've lost whilst on Chaos. But IMO it was well worth it, because even though I lost my mind logic, digging, huge axe, soul strength, and body control affinities, I now have regained a soul strength affinity, body control affinity, body strength affinity, as well as several other good affinities to replace what was lost. It's part of the PvP game; just like there's a chance of losing gear, you can lose your affinity. BUT, just as you have a chance at getting better gear through PvP, you can also get better affinities through PvP. 

 

For me, though, I could care less about losing an affinity every now and then, because no matter how good or bad it is, it won't stop me from PvPing whilst I have a chance of looting rares, drake, scale, and pretty much any other item in the game from a kill. To me, that's much more worth it than losing one measly affinity. 

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8 minutes ago, CIRAY said:

Risk of PvPing, my friend. Its not like you don't get a new affinity over time or anything, or have a chance at getting that affinity back (or a better one) through PvP. 

 

I can't even begin to tell you how many good affinities I've lost whilst on Chaos. But IMO it was well worth it, because even though I lost my mind logic, digging, huge axe, soul strength, and body control affinities, I now have regained a soul strength affinity, body control affinity, body strength affinity, as well as several other good affinities to replace what was lost. It's part of the PvP game; just like there's a chance of losing gear, you can lose your affinity. BUT, just as you have a chance at getting better gear through PvP, you can also get better affinities through PvP. 

 

For me, though, I could care less about losing an affinity every now and then, because no matter how good or bad it is, it won't stop me from PvPing whilst I have a chance of looting rares, drake, scale, and pretty much any other item in the game from a kill. To me, that's much more worth it than losing one measly affinity. 

I think the best part of pvp is the crazy butt clinching moments when your health is at 20% and you are praying to whatever god spawned you that the rng goes in your favor until the LoF lands: The screams of glee when Mclovin sees the health bar climb to full again, or the defeat in his voice when you drop to the ground, which then turns to victory when the corpse is picked up. Its a rollercoaster of emotion: the boat chases, dehorsing someome, the angry shouts when the enemy steals your catapult, the cliffhangers when you are uncertain if you will be able to defend your deed...

 

Its the moments, the people, the drama, the jokes, the friends and enemies you make along the way. In the end nothing beats that. No scale set, no glimmersteel loot, no deed disbanded. If loot and affinities is your only concern, then I can say with certainty you havent really experienced Wurm pvp.

 

Is not what you do. Its who you do it with.

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Some of my personal reasons, keep in mind i have played pvp games but generally prefer pve (cooperate and have positive interactions with other players) with some game exceptions.

 

-There are far better games designed around pvp and that requires less overall investment. And you don't have to worry about what's going on once you log off.

-I find wurm to have much more interesting features to be explored and enjoyed than pvp.

-Takes too much time to do everything before you even get onto pvp. By the time spent to build up fighting, weapon,body and other skills or traveling i'd already had dozen over dozen of matches on other games.

-You risk to lose your gear and items on death and to have your deed flattened. Check Sparta Raid the assaulters had players alternating shifts so they could cover different timezones and keep attacking non stop for 1 or 3 days and were severely outnumbering the defenders. That's excessive imo and not worth bothering and invest in building a fortified deed etc when things like this can occur (also not to mention the hacking and other incidents that occurred over the years).

-RNG and not enough control involved. The dodge, parries are not up to the player reactions and skill in reading a situation or opponent. It's all up to the character stats and hit/glance chances etc.

-Requires a premium account (unless you are playing on a Wurm Unlimited server). At least in PvE as non-prem you can still be part of a village and interact with other players or do other activitie (up to an extent).

-Everytime it occurred to my mind to maybe try it, i read forums and see what's it like and the mentality in general which is enough to erase the even small interest i had.

Edited by MashHiven
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5 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I think the best part of pvp is the crazy butt clinching moments when your health is at 20% and you are praying to whatever god spawned you that the rng goes in your favor until the LoF lands: The screams of glee when Mclovin sees the health bar climb to full again, or the defeat in his voice when you drop to the ground, which then turns to victory when the corpse is picked up. Its a rollercoaster of emotion: the boat chases, dehorsing someome, the angry shouts when the enemy steals your catapult, the cliffhangers when you are uncertain if you will be able to defend your deed...

 

Its the moments, the people, the drama, the jokes, the friends and enemies you make along the way. In the end nothing beats that. No scale set, no glimmersteel loot, no deed disbanded. If loot and affinities is your only concern, then I can say with certainty you havent really experienced Wurm pvp.

 

Is not what you do. Its who you do it with.

This is an accurate post. If you watch any PvP video made by Mclovin or myself you'll hear us screaming and laughing the whole time. It's the hype that makes it enjoyable, not so much the PvP, or even the loot. 

 

If you're on a PvP server and it seems like too much of a chore, then you're simply not doing it right. Find a good, fun group of people and you'll have a much more enjoyable time, I guarantee it.

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sounds like people who don't want to pvp just don't like full loot games so shouldn't pvp.

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8 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I think the best part of pvp is the crazy butt clinching moments when your health is at 20% and you are praying to whatever god spawned you that the rng goes in your favor until the LoF lands:

:/ are you purposely trying to make PvP look worse.

8 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Its not what you do. Its who you do it with.

Teamwork is a huge thing, Infact I recently said that teamwork (or even playing against friends) makes every game enjoyable, so I will consider playing "bad games" with my friends if they ask. Then my friend said "Really, so you would consider playing overwatch" and I responded that there are several games similar to it that I can play for free, and that paying to play the game would simply not be worth it. Now for wurm, I tried inviting people and they all decided to try the route of playing with ingame silver. Even before they got on the money grind, there was simply little "teamwork" really involved. Everybody branched out and did their stuff, or everybody piled together to make bricks, but the game didnt require communication. Everything that we talked about was simple chit chat, and when everything was said the game showed its true boring-ness. Now I can imagine PvP in wurm requiring much more communication in combat, but the issues to encounter before said communication would be 1) paying bimonthly and 2) getting the character stats required. Like mentioned before, you still have to grind your stats, and you will have to pay bimonthly. There are many free games that will also offer much more interesting combat for team players. There are also many 1 time purchase games that people can enjoy.

 

2 hours ago, Mclavin said:

sounds like people who don't want to pvp just don't like full loot games so shouldn't pvp.

Omg I LOVE FULL LOOT GAMES. The whole "Awww i lost my stuff" is awesome if you lost it in a good fight and the items are replenished in a fun manner. Wurm combat is dull though, and the way to get the items back is even duller. 

 

2 hours ago, CIRAY said:

This is an accurate post. If you watch any PvP video made by Mclovin or myself you'll hear us screaming and laughing the whole time. It's the hype that makes it enjoyable, not so much the PvP, or even the loot. 

 

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2 hours ago, Yiraia said:

:/ are you purposely trying to make PvP look worse.

Teamwork is a huge thing, Infact I recently said that teamwork (or even playing against friends) makes every game enjoyable, so I will consider playing "bad games" with my friends if they ask. Then my friend said "Really, so you would consider playing overwatch" and I responded that there are several games similar to it that I can play for free, and that paying to play the game would simply not be worth it. Now for wurm, I tried inviting people and they all decided to try the route of playing with ingame silver. Even before they got on the money grind, there was simply little "teamwork" really involved. Everybody branched out and did their stuff, or everybody piled together to make bricks, but the game didnt require communication. Everything that we talked about was simple chit chat, and when everything was said the game showed its true boring-ness. Now I can imagine PvP in wurm requiring much more communication in combat, but the issues to encounter before said communication would be 1) paying bimonthly and 2) getting the character stats required. Like mentioned before, you still have to grind your stats, and you will have to pay bimonthly. There are many free games that will also offer much more interesting combat for team players. There are also many 1 time purchase games that people can enjoy.

 

Omg I LOVE FULL LOOT GAMES. The whole "Awww i lost my stuff" is awesome if you lost it in a good fight and the items are replenished in a fun manner. Wurm combat is dull though, and the way to get the items back is even duller. 

 

 

You are comparing apples to oranges tho. You can say "Oh but there are other games". Of course there are. If you like FF14 better, you'd play that. If you like WoW better, you play that. If you are into single player games, you play that too. But this discussion is not about what games are better than Wurm. 

 

In order for you to enjoy Wurm PVP, you have to enjoy the game first. If your friends got bored with Wurm, then they wont enjoy PVP at all. Also, I dont understand how you find paying for your subscription being an issue with PVP. Living on Chaos is no different from living on Freedom. If your chosen method is to pay for your sub with in game coin, you can just craft on Chaos and sail stuff to Freedom. Is not like there are hordes of players salivating at the border waiting for you to cross.

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2 hours ago, Yiraia said:

:/ are you purposely trying to make PvP look worse.

Teamwork is a huge thing, Infact I recently said that teamwork (or even playing against friends) makes every game enjoyable, so I will consider playing "bad games" with my friends if they ask. Then my friend said "Really, so you would consider playing overwatch" and I responded that there are several games similar to it that I can play for free, and that paying to play the game would simply not be worth it. Now for wurm, I tried inviting people and they all decided to try the route of playing with ingame silver. Even before they got on the money grind, there was simply little "teamwork" really involved. Everybody branched out and did their stuff, or everybody piled together to make bricks, but the game didnt require communication. Everything that we talked about was simple chit chat, and when everything was said the game showed its true boring-ness. Now I can imagine PvP in wurm requiring much more communication in combat, but the issues to encounter before said communication would be 1) paying bimonthly and 2) getting the character stats required. Like mentioned before, you still have to grind your stats, and you will have to pay bimonthly. There are many free games that will also offer much more interesting combat for team players. There are also many 1 time purchase games that people can enjoy.

 

Omg I LOVE FULL LOOT GAMES. The whole "Awww i lost my stuff" is awesome if you lost it in a good fight and the items are replenished in a fun manner. Wurm combat is dull though, and the way to get the items back is even duller. 

 

 

Cherry picking people's posts is a sure way to misinterpret them, or worse, make yourself look like a right moron.  

 

For example, by highlighting the portion of angel's post where he mentions rng (to which you replied, ":/ are you purposely trying to make PvP look worse.") you're basically saying you have an issue with rng, which means you probably shouldn't be playing Wurm to begin with, since the game itself is based heavily on rng. 

 

Another example is when you highlighted the portion of my post where I said, "not so much the PvP." Out of context, one would think I was simply saying Wurm PvP is not enjoyable, whereas if they read my entire post they would realize I was saying Wurm PvP in itself is not as enjoyable as PvPing with a like-minded group, where jokes and friendly banter can make things much more interesting.

 

I think we all get you don't care for PvP in Wurm, but twisting people's words to make PvP sound unappealing to those who might be interested in trying it out doesn't help the PvP community, the ones debating whether to give it a try, nor the game itself. 

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All my items come from loot, so for me replacing isn't dull :ph34r:

 

I also grinded ws and ps and bs and shield, so I got an abundance of spare gear. My kingdom also equips its players and when you first come over we ask what you need. This removes a lot of the labour required for entry. 

 

Combat is dull in wurm, especially pve. 

Pvp makes it interesting because of the stam, horse, player, spells, health and equipment managenet.  It is not like fighting a troll. I quit wurm first time round because i figured pve sucks so pvp will too, never got the chance to pvp in a kingdom but on my second time round I pushed for it and then i saw all the different factors. If fighting for you is so dull that it over rides all the factors of pvp, fair enough. I just don't understand the preaching against pvp and "what looks bad" most People here haven't tried pvp on the scale we have, the 1vs1 spars they do is not pvp. 

 

80% of this thread is ignorance, we are dumb for replying especially when people here are set in stone about their opinion. 

 

There is no need to try and preach a bad light into the side you have a choice not to play. 

Edited by Mclavin
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14 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

All my items come from loot, so for me replacing isn't dull :ph34r:

 

I also grinded ws and ps and bs and shield, so I got an abundance of spare gear. My kingdom also equips its players and when you first come over we ask what you need. This removes a lot of the labour required for entry. 

 

Combat is dull in wurm, especially pve. 

Pvp makes it interesting because of the stam, horse, player, spells, health and equipment managenet.  It is not like fighting a troll. I quit wurm first time round because i figured pve sucks so pvp will too, never got the chance to pvp in a kingdom but on my second time round I pushed for it and then i saw all the different factors. If fighting for you is so dull that it over rides all the factors of pvp, fair enough. I just don't understand the preaching against pvp and "what looks bad" most People here haven't tried pvp on the scale we have, the 1vs1 spars they do is not pvp. 

 

80% of this thread is ignorance, we are dumb for replying especially when people here are set in stone about their opinion. 

 

There is no need to try and preach a bad light into the side you have a choice not to play. 

 

Yeah, combat is dull in Wurm, fighting trolls (Even champions) is just standing there focusing up etc.

When you add the PvP factor as Mclavin said, it get's way more interesting.

First you got the overall strategy, that comes down not only to the battle at hand but location of deeds , activity etc.

Then at the actual fights you also get the counter on weapons.

 

Example, Battleing a troll with a huge axe can be done while afking and is a very mild battle and not so much stuff going on.

In a 1v1 fight and you meet someone swinging that Longsword or Medium maul presents an oppertunity to counter their tactic, equip a small maul and stay on top of him.

You hit, he does not = Win.

 

That in it's turn presents an oppertunity for him to counter and so on.

 

This is just a brief example of the depth that's actually presented in Wurm PvP.

Also, a kingdom benefits greatly from more people, not just because of what it can do but because of how much fun it can have.

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