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Why nobody pvps in wurm.

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1 hour ago, Jorma said:

The most rewarding thing for me in chaos is the team work and camraderie. You just dont get that in freedom. 

I think I'm having a pretty good time with @PumperNickelon my deed. Had a really good time living with 5 other people and completing tasks (sometimes group based, other times mastering different skills). You don't need to be fighting other people to experience teamwork.

1 hour ago, Jorma said:

Another thing is the fact that if you dont get gear lost in pvp replaced by your group youre not playing with the right bunch of people. Hence team work.

Must be boring to those bunch of people to just constantly make gear to either get it lost or get more gear.

 

Im just saying... items aren't the fun part about pvp now. Its the combat! :D . Pretty sure unlocking a legendary gun in a game of pong wouldn't be interesting... and oddly enough pong is more fun than wurm combat.

Edited by Yiraia
would replaced with wouldn't
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id like to weigh in on this also.

number 1 - OP is wrong, there is, always will and has always been pvp, just the amount is low and it isnt everyday all day. Someone who plays rust as my second most played game i can say the difference in pvp between rust and wurm is huge. But its impossible to put them side to side. As someone who plays mostly fast paced servers and pvps the whole playtime in rust i can say i never get the shakes i get while pvping in Wurm. Everyone actually been in pvp in wurm can say its something sooo special, addicting. FPS can never give the same experience.

number 2 - I went to chaos with a toon (which is decent, has SoTG, some tomes and so on) naked. Now i have all the weapons i need, drake set, horse gear and so forward. YOU DO NOT NEED TO BUY DRAKE/SCALE. Alot of people still pvp in plate, but there isnt any need for it. Whoever is telling you, you need to make 500-1k investment to pvp on chaos are stupid and have no idea what they are saying. Even the very decent pvp accounts with SoTG and needed skills can be bought for 200-300€. And they are under average freedom accounts by body stats/skill wise. Seeing the accounts which are on freedom i sometimes worrie, if i would run into them on chaos, if i would survive. And making a new acc pvp ready is around 5-6 months max. It wont be top end acc but it will easily capable on chaos.

number 3 - Ever wonder why people who played pvp( actually pvped, not grinded on chaos deeds) always go back? Wurm in pvp mindset is one of the best games. Its not just wurm+ its wurm + on drugs. So people who are telling you, get a 70 ql plate set, join a kingdom of your liking and try it out are actually giving you a superb advice. No one who hasnt been to chaos can tell others how chaos is, if they do they it would be the same as i would be saying - flying a plane is like this! I have never done it but i watched a movie. NO, it does not work like that.

 

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I have never played hokey, but those guys are so dumb. If they took off all that bulky gear they would be more agile and have better chance of winning.

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11 hours ago, Wargasm said:

You can give new players god mode if you want, but I speak from experience when I say PvP is a numbers game.  One freedomer doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of killing 2-3 players in a 3v1.

 

I think it's only true to some degree. If all players are somewhat equally skilled and it's a 5v3 in the middle of melee combat... then yeah the 5 will win.

 

If you put 8 skilled and geared freedomers with no pvp experience against 5 experienced and geared pvpers, I would put my money on the pvpers. 

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17 minutes ago, BrQQQ said:

 

I think it's only true to some degree. If all players are somewhat equally skilled and it's a 5v3 in the middle of melee combat... then yeah the 5 will win.

 

If you put 8 skilled and geared freedomers with no pvp experience against 5 experienced and geared pvpers, I would put my money on the pvpers. 

i find alot of pvp boils down to nerves. Like which side is willing to fight until the end. Alot of fights on epic lately have been lost from the beginning by BL just because they decide to run on even numbers. That means they will not fight back and you can pick them up 1 by 1. The same with the Rome vs Hots when Rome is outnumbered, if they run and get dehorsed they lose a few of not all who does not make it back, if they fight well they lose more, but take some enemies with them. Can´t win a fight you are not trying to win, but trying to get away from. And i think most pvpers agree that fights where both sides fight the hardest and numbers are even are the funnest.

 

Edited by Wulfgarr
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13 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Out of curiosity, has Wurm Online ever had a dedicated, isolated PvP server where not only the world was wiped, but all accounts were as well? Declare a victorious kingdom after a year, make a hall of fame (maybe even write the history as a story in the wiki), reset the world and accounts, and do it all over again, with new features. (I suppose that's like WU...)

 

Challenge. And it was actually fun, at least for a week or two. Too bad it's not coming back and the devs went into complete radio silence about it.

Edited by bdew
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Everyone's experience of Chaos is going to be different. Most people stay or come back because they enjoy it. If you are worried about the gear I know there are Kingdom out there that would take naked toons and gear them up if you talk to them first. Or just wear a plate set and nothing rare. Several Kingdoms have a policy where they will replace any lost items. Some even let you wear drake sets that belong to the Kingdom. The skill gain you lose is tiny, you lose way more from PVE deaths. Lost FS is also gained back very quickly through PVP, you get very big ticks and winning a skirmish with your team could easily raise your fight skill in a matter of minutes where it may take months and months hunting.

 

By trying Chaos people really do not have anything to lose, but you could gain so much from friends, free tools and gear, enchants on demand, sermon groups, learn how to pvp and endure the adreniline rush we play for, explore the shells of old deed ruins which are actually pretty exciting to come across and look around.

 

All you need to do is not go over as a solo freedomer but instead contact people that are within the Kingdoms on Chaos. Talk to them all, figure out which one suits you best or after talking who you get along with. Worst case scenario - you can always convert to another kingdom if you find you do not fit in or think you'll have fun somewhere else more. There is no shame in converting if it is done respectfully and properly (without stealing or causing drama on the way out).

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13 hours ago, Ruiner said:

Moral of the story is if you don't play the PvP side and don't want to go make some bricks or something and bugger off.

I'm very happy that your completely confident that i have never PvP'ed on Wurm .......obviously your wrong.

 

But please re-read anything i have written and i hope in doing so you'd understand what i'm trying to do is move the discussion on from tinkering with a few variables and on to how the hell we increase PvP participation in Wurm in any significant and long lasting way.

 

The only way to do this is to draw in players from outside Wurm and you can only do that after you have taken a realistic look at the current state of PvP in Wurm compared to it's competition!

Don't get me wrong, i've been lurking on these forums for a long time and i understand why many people post knee-jerk responses to the same discussion, which appears every 6 to 9 months, they are completely understandable, but they arn't very helpful for trying to deal with the actual problem.

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That all, plus everyone is so foking paranoid, tried to join 2 differend places. nah they want to know your sosial security, well not really but that foking paranoia

 

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Stay with me here… I will state up front that I personally do not care for PVP, I don’t like what it does to me personally and as a rule I do not PVP in any game anymore. That’s not to say that I do not care about PVP. It’s a key mechanic of this game and everyone likes to draw that line in the sand. (Full Disclosure: I gave up PVP in all forms when I left Eve Online and do not wish to relive that stress and paranoia anymore.) I will not offer any opinions of who is right or who is wrong, but I will say that people must respect everyone's personal choices and figure out a way to do more battle in game rather than a forum. :)  What I do want to see is this game continue to grow and thrive no matter where in the WO universe you wish to reside. You must realize that the 2 "sides" are codependent on each other. All anyone wants to do is continue to fuel division. I hear enough of divisive crap on a daily basis from the news media.

 

I have read and heard so many good suggestions on how to change/enhance game mechanics, but they are scattered all over the place. I never see a clear and concise way of communicating these ideas without the post getting off topic. Keeping track of what’s going on in this forum is like drinking from a fire hose. Has anyone considered Player Advisory Boards? Has there ever been a structured method of providing player input in a “forum” (not this forum) that includes volunteer players and WO staff? These forum posts that turn into full scale feuds have got to be demoralizing to the staff and when I see proposed changes that are met with pitchforks and torches…there’s a problem.

 

Lets also not forget that there is a 3rd "side" to this game that exists in that misty haze between PVE and PVP, Priests. (You're welcome @Etherdrifter) They have a niche all by themselves and could use a "Ministry of Magic" to help shape the future of magic users. Get them together in a "room" and effect positive change and I may consider priesting my main :) 

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23 hours ago, gorgian said:

One of the biggest I've heard is offline raiding (lack of protection offline no matter how well you build up.) 

Have players on at all form different time zones just is unfeasible. (with the numbers in pvp)

Its far to easy to take down a wall/buildings. What ever happened to the idea of sieging, last i checked, to siege a castle or fort took  weeks, months. in real life. but sure, this is a game which could be scaled down. Which brings me back to my first point. 

That's a big one for me.  It just felt like I was logging in to clean up someone else's mess.  Presumably the player destroying all the floors, dropping all the furniture to the ground, then grabbing a few things they wanted had fun.  I just didn't have fun cleaning up after them when I logged back in.  Maybe my own lack of fun was the source of their fun... who knows, who ultimately cares.

 

19 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Why is it that PVE'ers give their opinions about Chaos like that? And they talk as if they represent the majority of players as if everyone simply agrees with them?

I believe there are forums dedicated to PvP that require special access.  I have access, but lack the interest.  Where you post will likely have some effect on who responds.

Keep in mind, you're talking about players who also love Wurm, but have no interest in PvP.  Might be of interest why if one hopes to bridge the gap.

 

19 hours ago, polarbear said:

didn't Rolf want the game to be 100% pvp only years ago. 

It's not financially sustainable.

 

9 hours ago, Jorma said:

The most rewarding thing for me in chaos is the team work and camraderie. You just dont get that in freedom.

Aside from all the major community projects and availability of villages to join.  They're not forced upon anyone, of course, but it's all there for anyone wanting to participate.  I think you'll find very few closed clubs on PvE servers aside from unique hunts that just happen to occur on PvE servers, but are often PvP driven.

*********************************

 

I like the PvP on Gloria Victis.  I haven't played it in a long time, but I find it engaging.  I get massacred :P but it feels much more interactive to me.  I also have found that players don't always take everything I own when I die.  They might take something they need, but more often than not I respawn with most of what I need to get right back in the fight.

That's a PvP culture I can enjoy.  It's not at all the usual PvP culture I encounter in these types of games though.

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15 hours ago, Ruiner said:

I frankly don't understand why those who don't PvP get in these discussions about PvP.

 

The topic is "Why nobody pvps in wurm", so the opinion of those who refrain from PvP (especially those who tried it and went back to Freedom) might give some insight into the subject. But yeah, this attitude is why I didn't throw my 3 cents in this thread...

Edited by Hula_Girl
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19 hours ago, Gladiator said:

100% different kind of game. It's an FPS. Not all gamers like FPS's, what i meant by naming one is naming one that is within the genre

Dark age of Camelot

To name one that is even older than wurm : D

Honestly, despite playing it a lot, i never even remotely been drawn to the pvp-side of this game.

Too much elitarism, hierarchy and obnoxious people, real-ish money at stake, and not even a good design, those 3 things always kept me very-away from it, if i strive for some pvp, i just go for it on some other game, even when i'm actively playing wurm daily.

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19 hours ago, Ratlin said:

No this is the misconception .....

I'm sorry but this isn't field of dreams, if you build they won't come .... the fact is there already here, a lot of them have tried it and the vast majority of them simply are not interested.

You can't improve PvP numbers by preaching to the same people you've preached to the last 15 times,

 

If you want to improve PvP numbers you have to attract from outside Wurm.

A lot of them have tried it sure, the majority haven't and sure there are a lot not interested but that doesn't change the misconceptions and far-fetched exaggerations based on flat out lies or very poor exaggerated second hand information i see when I ask people about it, or occasionally see crop up in GL-Freedom. Some of it so bad to the point I cringe, because nothing about it has anything to do with truth. It's the worst when others also agree about it, and none of them have ever even attempted trying out a PvP server, nor know anyone that has, and spread misinformation like that.

 

It's harmful to the playerbase, and I'll be the first one to tell you that PvP in this game is extremely lackluster, but it is unique and that makes it fun to a lot of people. This goes doubly for a lot of people on Freedom. Every single person who has played exclusively on a PvE server to try PvP, has gone to completely playing on a PvP server within a month. Could i be looking at a particular group of people? Maybe people who were already interested? Sure. Doesn't change the fact that these people made the change and increased the PvP population for the long term. Clearing up misconceptions is healthy for the game.

 

 

10 hours ago, Yiraia said:

Loss of skills is not that big of an issue. The fact that fighting in wurm is boring is enough to make me not want to go to chaos. (If i had extra time I would be on epic for that sweet sleep bonus while playing more wurm). Its hard to lose in a PvE fight unless you purposely put yourself in one of the worst situations possible (once you get a mount, just ride off near death lol). Usually you win and get your butchered items. If fighting was more amusing, then losing in a fight would be MUCH more tolerable in pvp. I have seen pvp videos and at first it seemed like an enjoyable activity.. then I looked at the gear they had and thought about how much time I would have to spend making them and how much more time I would have to spend if i lost them. Even better.. how much I'd have to dip into my college funds to get a chance in the game lol. 

 

Good luck trying to attract more players for pvp. The Money/Fun ratio for pvp sucks. There are plenty of other games that offer much more amusing types of combat for a cheaper price. Wurm is gonna need heavy changes, or somehow convince people to spend hours clicking a button over and over again, and then putting that stuff at risk in a fight. Many games nowadays favor a "Drop into a match with certain equipment and fight" or "Drop into a map with equipment spread around and fight."

 

The fighting is very boring for just about everyone, its the adrenaline rush from it being full loot that attracts many people, plus the community element is much much much much stronger on the PvP servers than it is on the PvE servers, simply for the reason it's because people need to band together to survive and succeed, if you don't you wont make it past the door.

 

As for gearing, nobody gears up alone. I can only speak for the kingdoms ive been a part of and doubly so for the ones ive founded, but, people generally go out of their way to help you. Drake is given out like candy to those who actively contribute, Scale is given out to usually more high profile, experienced and active players. Some people purchase this stuff sure, but, at least for my community, its a very small minority. Almost nobody makes all their own gear here either, you can pretty much post in discord and get 10 people giving you 10 different things, and for the most part we have kingdom bicycles and priests to help with the process too.

 

The Money/Fun ratio does suck, but, again, more insider information here. If you are spending more on the game than you are getting out of it, you are setting yourself up for failure. That's why the kingdoms that buy everyone accounts, drake, scale, and pay out of pocket for 10-20 deeds don't succeed. If you are playing the game properly, you shouldn't be investing any more than your premium time and a couple silvers, and i am being dead serious when i say -everything is free-. Speaking for TC, you get 90ql 90 enchanted tools, FOR FREE, you get your res stones FOR FREE, you get your armor and weapons made, imped, enchanted, FOR FREE, you get moonmetal FOR FREE. I also know that we are not and have not ever been the only people to do that.

 

I guess free isn't free if you consider playing the game and working on a project or two payment, but yes.

 

 

Also, i'd like to say publicly what i told Mizova many months ago. Every PvP kingdom on chaos is different. Each one has different standards, different expectations, different groups of people, different mentalities and approaches to the game. Ive seen many people try out PvP, join a group they didn't really mesh with, and never gave another one a chance because they assumed they were all the same. They're not. Most people need to try a few before they find a community they really enjoy, some people don't and thats ok too. I'd also like to say nobody will have a problem with anyone joining and leaving a kingdom as long as it is done respectfully and with minimal drama.

 

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Gonna keep it real simple why I don't PvP. In no particular order.

  • Outdated and boring combat system. This has to be my number one.
  • Loopholes and exploits that took years for someone to step in and put a stop to
  • Toxic and entitled community
  • Risk of losing more money than I would like to (Some kingdoms certainly help out with this, giving out gear etc.)
  • Low population, not only the PvP side but Wurm in general would lead to a stale experience
  • Not enough Reward>Risk, at least for lower level players looking to jump in

 

Keep in mind this is all my personal opinion, and I'm sure I'm missing some points.

Edited by Budzilla
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19 minutes ago, Prophetears said:

Every single person who has played exclusively on a PvE server to try PvP, has gone to completely playing on a PvP server within a month. Could i be looking at a particular group of people? Maybe people who were already interested? Sure. Doesn't change the fact that these people made the change and increased the PvP population for the long term. Clearing up misconceptions is healthy for the game.

 

 

 

QHH1EUx.png

Yeah i can see that dramatic increase in numbers you talk about right there ....


I'm going to say this for the last time .... can we talk about the real problems and not the cliches such as "it's all the fault of the PvE players that PvP is failing" please?


If your happy to try and attract/guilt/force the 50% (made up figure) of the 450 (typical load across all servers) of Wurm players who havn't tried PvP that's nice, but wouldn't you rather attempt to attract even 0.001% of non-Wurm players out there?

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20 minutes ago, Budzilla said:

Gonna keep it real simple why I don't PvP. In no particular order.

  • Outdated and boring combat system. This has to be my number one.
  • Loopholes and exploits that took years for someone to step in and put a stop to
  • Toxic and entitled community
  • Risk of losing more money than I would like to (Some kingdoms certainly help out with this, giving out gear etc.)
  • Low population, not only the PvP side but Wurm in general would lead to a stale experience
  • Not enough Reward>Risk, at least for lower level players looking to jump in

 

Keep in mind this is all my personal opinion, and I'm sure I'm missing some points.

 

This pretty much sums up my point barring:

 

  • Inability to compete due to relying on creation skillgains (and hence stat ticks)
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18 minutes ago, Ratlin said:

QHH1EUx.png

Yeah i can see that dramatic increase in numbers you talk about right there ....


I'm going to say this for the last time .... can we talk about the real problems and not the cliches such as "it's all the fault of the PvE players that PvP is failing" please?


If your happy to try and attract/guilt/force the 50% (made up figure) of the 450 (typical load across all servers) of Wurm players who havn't tried PvP that's nice, but wouldn't you rather attempt to attract even 0.001% of non-Wurm players out there?

Can you point out another server that has considerably more players, other than Xanadu? I mean, graphs about Chaos are nice, but the busiest of the smaller servers have relatively similar peak times. Now consider the fact a lot of Chaos players play on Freedom alts, and only log in their pvp characters when there is pvp to be had.

 

Very few players on Chaos will "play house" on Chaos. Thats what Freedom is for.

Edited by Angelklaine
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1 hour ago, Ratlin said:

QHH1EUx.png

Yeah i can see that dramatic increase in numbers you talk about right there ....


I'm going to say this for the last time .... can we talk about the real problems and not the cliches such as "it's all the fault of the PvE players that PvP is failing" please?


If your happy to try and attract/guilt/force the 50% (made up figure) of the 450 (typical load across all servers) of Wurm players who havn't tried PvP that's nice, but wouldn't you rather attempt to attract even 0.001% of non-Wurm players out there?

 

Not my point, my point was every person i got to try it from a PvE server, stuck with the PvP server.

 

Nobody also said PvE players are the reason PvP is failing, you made that up on your own to take away from the point that it is possible to get PvE players to play on a PvP server.

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I think the ratio between PvP'ers and non-PvP'ers is roughly the same as in any other game I've played where there was both a PvP and PvE option.  We're just noticing the population drop in PvP areas first because there are proportionally less of us spread out over a fairly large area.  And we have to keep an eye on who and how many other Players are around us.  I don't think the solution to a low PvP population is to take away the thrill of potential loss that drives most PvP'ers to the game, simply in the hopes of dragging over a few Freedom folks.  Wurm needs more new Players.  It's that simple.  Epic and Chaos, surely need more people.. but frankly I spent last weekend exploring some of the other servers, and outside of Independence and Xanadu, they were just about as empty any Epic home server.  Maybe those on PvE servers just seem to notice it less because they're gardening or something.  I don't know.  But rather than focusing on a single aspect of the game, I'm hoping that the Development Team is working on new ideas to draw more new Players to the game.

 

But if they'd fix the Epic missions while they're at it, I wouldn't complain.  I mean, seriously, what is Mag going to do with 700 white cotton sleeves!

 

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2 minutes ago, Sjarn said:

I think the ratio between PvP'ers and non-PvP'ers is roughly the same as in any other game I've played where there was both a PvP and PvE option. 

I'm not saying this to prove or disprove anything in particular, and i don't know what games you have played so far, but this is absolutely not true for the most of the games that i have tried in my life, and in the exceptions, the pvp was completely horrible.

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17 minutes ago, Davih said:

I'm not saying this to prove or disprove anything in particular, and i don't know what games you have played so far, but this is absolutely not true for the most of the games that i have tried in my life, and in the exceptions, the pvp was completely horrible.

 

Fine, whatever, we probably play different games.  My point is that Wurm needs new Players in general, and that is likely to bring people who want to PvP too.

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50 minutes ago, Sjarn said:

 

Fine, whatever, we probably play different games.  My point is that Wurm needs new Players in general, and that is likely to bring people who want to PvP too.

This is true, but its not the subject of this post. Wurm has an average online population of what? 400 across all servers combined? Thats a ratio of 36 people per server (yes, Epic is empty and Xanadu has everyone and their mothers in there). Thats not a healthy population by any stretch.

 

With these numbers, the constant average of 21 people on Chaos looks appropiate, given its only 1 out of 5 pvp servers. Don't you think?

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2 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Can you point out another server that has considerably more players, other than Xanadu? I mean, graphs about Chaos are nice, but the busiest of the smaller servers have relatively similar peak times. Now consider the fact a lot of Chaos players play on Freedom alts, and only log in their pvp characters when there is pvp to be had.

 

Very few players on Chaos will "play house" on Chaos. Thats what Freedom is for.

I play house ;/ I have a hubby that stays out all night and a bunch of kids I wrangle like cats.

 

#letsplayhouse

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