Why nobody pvps in wurm.

[Roccandil 959]

21 minutes ago, gorgian said:

direct compression to two very similar products 

 

LIF

http://steamcharts.com/app/290080

 

WU

http://steamcharts.com/app/366220

 

In my opion LIF has even worse combat/less building but why do people like this more?

 

I know not very positive but, the question is still valid.

 

 

Well, it's new. Much less playing catch-up...

 

EDIT: sorry, I see you mean WU, not WO. I still think the "shiny" of new applies, though. Let's see how LiF is doing in a year...

Edited January 10, 2018 by Roccandil

[gorgian 181]

8 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

Well, it's new. Much less playing catch-up...

 

They both offer hosting of your own world on both game. Not sure what you mean here?

 

LIF = Life is feudal (not the online version)

WU- wurm unlimited (not wurm online)

Edited January 10, 2018 by gorgian

[Wargasm 1,928]

27 minutes ago, Niki said:

Would be nice if this thread had more constructive posts instead of flaming others.

 

Would be nice if you practiced what you preached.  If your shot at Angelklaine isn't flaming, I don't know what is (and for the record, I don't disagree with your comment).  

 

Anyway, I think the main problem with PvP is the misconception.  Your typical freedomer is scared to death to even cross the border to Chaos in a boat.  Even if they cross, stop, plot a course back without leaving the edge of the server, most are deathly afraid there's a supreme sailboat with 5 SoTG Smegain priests waiting for them.  The truth is, it's much harder (impossible in fact) to patrol the complete eastern border of Chaos, now it's impossible because you can cross to Chaos on any side.

 

The other concern would be lack of PvP knowledge.  Situational awareness, CR, little things like leading 4 horses and wondering why you died so fast.  Chaos does not support the "Naked and Afraid" solo content that some freedomers might enjoy.  It requires joining a kingdom, organization and communication with other players to accomplish a goal.

 

The best advice I can give is... try it.  Acquire an iron plate set, make yourself some 50-70 ql tools that you don't mind losing, apply to join any Chaos kingdom (Pandemonium, Ebonaura, LoA, TC, WU) and learn the ropes.  Worst case scenario, you die, you lose the tools and armor you don't care about and congratulations, you finally got rid of your pottery affinity.

[Budzilla 186]

15 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

Well, it's new. Much less playing catch-up...

 

EDIT: sorry, I see you mean WU, not WO. I still think the "shiny" of new applies, though. Let's see how LiF is doing in a year...

 

That's LiF: Your Own, which has been out for a few years now. There is also the MMO which has another 1700~ people on the NA server, and probably around the same in the EU server.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Budzilla

[Ratlin 79]

17 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Your typical freedomer is scared to death to even cross the border to Chaos in a boat.  Even if they cross, stop, plot a course back without leaving the edge of the server, most are deathly afraid there's a supreme sailboat with 5 SoTG Smegain priests waiting for them.

No this is the misconception .....

I'm sorry but this isn't field of dreams, if you build they won't come .... the fact is there already here, a lot of them have tried it and the vast majority of them simply are not interested.

You can't improve PvP numbers by preaching to the same people you've preached to the last 15 times,

 

If you want to improve PvP numbers you have to attract from outside Wurm.

Edited January 11, 2018 by shakys
Moderation Edit

[Wargasm 1,928]

LOL, that's a good one.  I'll hold my breath until the staff makes that leap and starts actually advertising.

[Niki 2,278]

4 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

Would be nice if you practiced what you preached.  If your shot at Angelklaine isn't flaming, I don't know what is (and for the record, I don't disagree with your comment).  

 

Anyway, I think the main problem with PvP is the misconception.  Your typical freedomer is scared to death to even cross the border to Chaos in a boat.  Even if they cross, stop, plot a course back without leaving the edge of the server, most are deathly afraid there's a supreme sailboat with 5 SoTG Smegain priests waiting for them.  The truth is, it's much harder (impossible in fact) to patrol the complete eastern border of Chaos, now it's impossible because you can cross to Chaos on any side.

 

The other concern would be lack of PvP knowledge.  Situational awareness, CR, little things like leading 4 horses and wondering why you died so fast.  Chaos does not support the "Naked and Afraid" solo content that some freedomers might enjoy.  It requires joining a kingdom, organization and communication with other players to accomplish a goal.

 

The best advice I can give is... try it.  Acquire an iron plate set, make yourself some 50-70 ql tools that you don't mind losing, apply to join any Chaos kingdom (Pandemonium, Ebonaura, LoA, TC, WU) and learn the ropes.  Worst case scenario, you die, you lose the tools and armor you don't care about and congratulations, you finally got rid of your pottery affinity.

You misinterpreted it I think, but that's alright. I wasn't taking a jab at him even though he probably was. 

 

When it comes down to it, making the entry into PvP abit easier as I've stated in my previous posts really make a lot of those worries go away. While the supreme sailboat scenario is super scary, if they were to implement some of my ideas, 5 new players in a rare boat with iron plate should be able to match them, might not be able to win but you never know. Right now that's not the case. The power gap is simply the issue.

 

Also PvP mechanics could be taught in the tutorial rework, have 2 tutorials, a PvP one and PvE one. Problem fixed.

 

[Ratlin 79]

1 minute ago, Wargasm said:

LOL, that's a good one.  I'll hold my breath until the staff makes that leap and starts actually advertising.

 

Again, really lets not go round and round with the same old arguments, please if you actually want to improve the PvP situation on Wurm please please please just get past the old cliched tropes and lets talk about the real problem.

 

When stacked up against the competition on the "digital game store shelf" this game has nothing to offer the new player looking for his 1st or next PvP experience compares to the vast majority of others produced in the last 10 years. And we know this because if it did they would be coming here anyway, Eve online for the 1st 6 years of it's existence was only available from their website, had about the same advertising budget than Wurm and their numbers grew every single year.

 

 

[Wargasm 1,928]

You can give new players god mode if you want, but I speak from experience when I say PvP is a numbers game.  One freedomer doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of killing 2-3 players in a 3v1.

[Niki 2,278]

1 minute ago, Wargasm said:

You can give new players god mode if you want, but I speak from experience when I say PvP is a numbers game.  One freedomer doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of killing 2-3 players in a 3v1.

I know it is, and numbers will always win. But those rare circumstances where you are out hunting for unicorns and you find a enemy, you can try to 1v1 without panicking as much.

[Roccandil 959]

1 hour ago, gorgian said:

 

They both offer hosting of your own world on both game. Not sure what you mean here?

 

LIF = Life is feudal (not the online version)

WU- wurm unlimited (not wurm online)

 

Yeah, I forgot LiF also has a non-online version (and WU seems to be newer on Steam than LiF Your Own). Clearly, on Steam LiF Your Own beats WU hands-down.

 

Correct me again if I'm wrong, however, but in the case of Wurm, WO came before WU, whereas in the case of LiF, the non-online version came first, and the online version is now in beta. That seems a significant difference, in that WU has been competing from the beginning against WO, whereas LiF Your Own hasn't been competing against the online version of itself until fairly recently.

 

Also, was WU ever sold outside Steam, or has it always been Steam-only?

[gorgian 181]

35 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

Yeah, I forgot LiF also has a non-online version (and WU seems to be newer on Steam than LiF Your Own). Clearly, on Steam LiF Your Own beats WU hands-down.

 

Correct me again if I'm wrong, however, but in the case of Wurm, WO came before WU, whereas in the case of LiF, the non-online version came first, and the online version is now in beta. That seems a significant difference, in that WU has been competing from the beginning against WO, whereas LiF Your Own hasn't been competing against the online version of itself until fairly recently.

 

Also, was WU ever sold outside Steam, or has it always been Steam-only?

 

yes WO came out before WU, but LIF Own came before WU and last the LIF (online version). WU was also Sold under other website other then steam,but of course it still was a steam key, 

 

 

Fun fact:   WU was on sale for one buck not to long ago. On the Humble Bundle store Oct (12-23) 2017 around there. This was also advertised on steam page under WU. You can do your own homework, and see the sale and player counts there of.

Edited January 11, 2018 by gorgian

[Ruiner 362]

8 hours ago, Malcore said:

ok you must not be a knight 90 plus fighting skill lol.if you lose 1 fighting skill at that level you will know what im talking about.

94 fs I believe 

[Ruiner 362]

17 hours ago, Ratlin said:

No this is the misconception .....

I'm sorry but this isn't field of dreams, if you build they won't come .... the fact is there already here, a lot of them have tried it and the vast majority of them simply are not interested.

You can't improve PvP numbers by preaching to the same people you've preached to the last 15 times, 

 

If you want to improve PvP numbers you have to attract from outside Wurm.

1

I don't think anyone is preaching to the same players , point is there is alot of newer pkayers that have interest but are scared to try it, because old pve players that are dead set against PvP tell them it isn't good or worth it. I mean hell we wouldn't want some one to form their own opinions or anything.

I frankly don't understand why those who don't PvP get in these discussions about PvP. So you don't like PvP ok we get it move along. Why do you have to help kill it by downtalking some thing you either don't know a damn thing about or don't participate in. Now I know I am going to get the standard ,PvP players get involved with freedom stuff ######. But we all play over there as well. More then I can say for you guys. 

Moral of the story is if you don't play the PvP side and don't want to go make some bricks or something and bugger off.

Edited January 11, 2018 by shakys
Moderation Edit

[Xallo 2,599]

The risk is what makes it enjoyable to me, and the fact that I can become better at it by spending more time grinding my account / gaining PvP experience. 99.7FS and I don't care if I die, lose .25FS/.01 BS, and/or lose 500E+ worth of gear that was earned on Chaos anyway. To me, that's just all in the fun.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

3 hours ago, Niki said:

Have you grinded a account by yourself? What type of question is that.

It is a very relevant question. You really can't talk about the "pvp experience" of a game if you have never experienced it for yourself. Its like me talking about what being a doctor is like without me being a doctor myself. Experience is something you can't witness and learn from it. You have to be in the thick of it to know what you are talking about. You speak about PVP and how it is and how it can be fixed, yet I believe you have never set a foot on Chaos, or if you have, not recently, so your "experience" on the subject is non existant. That's why I asked and why you don't understand why your suggestions do not really work.

 

And for the record, yes I have 3 accounts I have grinded myself. But that's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

2 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

Would be nice if you practiced what you preached.  If your shot at Angelklaine isn't flaming, I don't know what is (and for the record, I don't disagree with your comment).  

 

Anyway, I think the main problem with PvP is the misconception.  Your typical freedomer is scared to death to even cross the border to Chaos in a boat.  Even if they cross, stop, plot a course back without leaving the edge of the server, most are deathly afraid there's a supreme sailboat with 5 SoTG Smegain priests waiting for them.  The truth is, it's much harder (impossible in fact) to patrol the complete eastern border of Chaos, now it's impossible because you can cross to Chaos on any side.

 

The other concern would be lack of PvP knowledge.  Situational awareness, CR, little things like leading 4 horses and wondering why you died so fast.  Chaos does not support the "Naked and Afraid" solo content that some freedomers might enjoy.  It requires joining a kingdom, organization and communication with other players to accomplish a goal.

 

The best advice I can give is... try it.  Acquire an iron plate set, make yourself some 50-70 ql tools that you don't mind losing, apply to join any Chaos kingdom (Pandemonium, Ebonaura, LoA, TC, WU) and learn the ropes.  Worst case scenario, you die, you lose the tools and armor you don't care about and congratulations, you finally got rid of your pottery affinity.

I can't agree with this man more. There is wisdom in this post.

[Ruiner 362]

6 minutes ago, Xallo said:

The risk is what makes it enjoyable to me, and the fact that I can become better at it by spending more time grinding my account / gaining PvP experience. 99.7FS and I don't care if I die, lose .25FS/.01 BS, and/or lose 500E+ worth of gear that was earned on Chaos anyway. To me, that's just all in the fun.

If you have a good kingdom you are regeared right away anyway not to mention all my tools and so on with are enchanted for free by the kingdom priests all my tools and gear is imped by the kingdom. So that stuff you lose in battle isn't that huge of a deal

[Holar 1,484]

I find that PvP servers are the most rewarding because you actual build towards achieving a certain goal that can literally turn the tides of a whole map or era of Wurm. Yeah it’s neat and cool to see Freedom ruins and you say “yeah Tich built this colossus and it’s cool” or when you go to Chaos and you see a ruin you hear “ yeah this is LO landbridge, 35 people fought here for 2 hours to fight over the troll spawn region and is probably one of the most memorable landmarks in Wurm history”. 

 

I think if people quit reading what they see on forums and actually get suited, booted and catch the noon sailboat to Chaos they’d form a whole new view of what Wurm actually has to offer. Seeing some of the posts people make about PvP in general shows me they have no clue what actually goes on and they have a narrow minded 2nd hand experience of Wurm PvP. 

[Yiraia 427]

Loss of skills is not that big of an issue. The fact that fighting in wurm is boring is enough to make me not want to go to chaos. (If i had extra time I would be on epic for that sweet sleep bonus while playing more wurm). Its hard to lose in a PvE fight unless you purposely put yourself in one of the worst situations possible (once you get a mount, just ride off near death lol). Usually you win and get your butchered items. If fighting was more amusing, then losing in a fight would be MUCH more tolerable in pvp. I have seen pvp videos and at first it seemed like an enjoyable activity.. then I looked at the gear they had and thought about how much time I would have to spend making them and how much more time I would have to spend if i lost them. Even better.. how much I'd have to dip into my college funds to get a chance in the game lol. 

 

Good luck trying to attract more players for pvp. The Money/Fun ratio for pvp sucks. There are plenty of other games that offer much more amusing types of combat for a cheaper price. Wurm is gonna need heavy changes, or somehow convince people to spend hours clicking a button over and over again, and then putting that stuff at risk in a fight. Many games nowadays favor a "Drop into a match with certain equipment and fight" or "Drop into a map with equipment spread around and fight."

[Jorma 112]

The most rewarding thing for me in chaos is the team work and camraderie. You just dont get that in freedom. 

 

Another thing is the fact that if you dont get gear lost in pvp replaced by your group youre not playing with the right bunch of people. Hence team work.

[Niki 2,278]

33 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Loss of skills is not that big of an issue. The fact that fighting in wurm is boring is enough to make me not want to go to chaos. (If i had extra time I would be on epic for that sweet sleep bonus while playing more wurm). Its hard to lose in a PvE fight unless you purposely put yourself in one of the worst situations possible (once you get a mount, just ride off near death lol). Usually you win and get your butchered items. If fighting was more amusing, then losing in a fight would be MUCH more tolerable in pvp. I have seen pvp videos and at first it seemed like an enjoyable activity.. then I looked at the gear they had and thought about how much time I would have to spend making them and how much more time I would have to spend if i lost them. Even better.. how much I'd have to dip into my college funds to get a chance in the game lol. 

 

Good luck trying to attract more players for pvp. The Money/Fun ratio for pvp sucks. There are plenty of other games that offer much more amusing types of combat for a cheaper price. Wurm is gonna need heavy changes, or somehow convince people to spend hours clicking a button over and over again, and then putting that stuff at risk in a fight. Many games nowadays favor a "Drop into a match with certain equipment and fight" or "Drop into a map with equipment spread around and fight."

PvPers need to get on board with change, nothing is going to happen if one side is against and one is for. The hemorrhaging is happening weather players like it or not. I totally agree with you, why Wurm PvP, when there exists better alternatives without the cost and the time gate.

 

6 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

It is a very relevant question. You really can't talk about the "pvp experience" of a game if you have never experienced it for yourself. Its like me talking about what being a doctor is like without me being a doctor myself. Experience is something you can't witness and learn from it. You have to be in the thick of it to know what you are talking about. You speak about PVP and how it is and how it can be fixed, yet I believe you have never set a foot on Chaos, or if you have, not recently, so your "experience" on the subject is non existant. That's why I asked and why you don't understand why your suggestions do not really work.

 

And for the record, yes I have 3 accounts I have grinded myself. But that's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. 

Alright angel, for the record yes I have just not on my main account. Not recently though, I don't think it's relevant either sorry. I don't really see why Wurm PvP can't be improved. Maybe my suggestions are just what the game needs, maybe not. I disagree with the power gap though, the cost of pvp. Here are some examples, account buying & selling, drake & dragon gear, moonmetal weapons (This might be free, ask your local kingdom for more!), SoTG and Tomes. A lot of this wouldn't be such a requirement with the scaling technology suggestion.

 

I know a lot of you are going to say, "Niki you don't need that to PvP!" No you don't if you have excellent awareness and a vast understanding of combat and PvP mechanics. How many people that get into PvP for the first time are going against those veteran players and getting pummeled? Quite frequently I bet, they might of even died to a valrei spawn trying to get to the battle. So let's say they're using a set of iron plate, a shield, and a long sword - 70 fight skill, 50 large shield, and 30-40 body strength. Do they stand a chance long term? Not really. They have a few options though, spend money and buy a PvP account like you did, spend a few five years and grind skills until they are "good" or stop and go back to freedom. Most choose freedom. I wonder why? Also you can make more money on freedom *cough*  but no it's because of the power gap! Those pesky tomes and karma!

 

It adds up. Let's be real for a moment.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Niki

[Holar 1,484]

“PvPers need to get on board with change” 

 

Where have you been for the past 8 years? PvPers want change and every time suggestions are brought up to even the playing field and a good percentage of the player base who pvp agree with it immediately get shot down. Hell the biggest overhaul to PvP was the fight fix that happened over 11 years ago and to be honest it hurt how many ways the game could be played from the combat aspect. Developers are the ones who need to embrace change and figure out how to fix broken systems and extremely overpowered end game items.

 

I wish the developers would say something more then “we have plans for pvp” well boats were also coming out next month for 5 years. 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

53 minutes ago, Niki said:

PvPers need to get on board with change, nothing is going to happen if one side is against and one is for. The hemorrhaging is happening weather players like it or not. I totally agree with you, why Wurm PvP, when there exists better alternatives without the cost and the time gate.

 

Alright angel, for the record yes I have just not on my main account. Not recently though, I don't think it's relevant either sorry. I don't really see why Wurm PvP can't be improved. Maybe my suggestions are just what the game needs, maybe not. I disagree with the power gap though, the cost of pvp. Here are some examples, account buying & selling, drake & dragon gear, moonmetal weapons (This might be free, ask your local kingdom for more!), SoTG and Tomes. A lot of this wouldn't be such a requirement with the scaling technology suggestion.

 

I know a lot of you are going to say, "Niki you don't need that to PvP!" No you don't if you have excellent awareness and a vast understanding of combat and PvP mechanics. How many people that get into PvP for the first time are going against those veteran players and getting pummeled? Quite frequently I bet, they might of even died to a valrei spawn trying to get to the battle. So let's say they're using a set of iron plate, a shield, and a long sword - 70 fight skill, 50 large shield, and 30-40 body strength. Do they stand a chance long term? Not really. They have a few options though, spend money and buy a PvP account like you did, spend a few five years and grind skills until they are "good" or stop and go back to freedom. Most choose freedom. I wonder why? Also you can make more money on freedom *cough*  but no it's because of the power gap! Those pesky tomes and karma!

 

It adds up. Let's be real for a moment.

Well I am on Chaos right now and I can tell you that you are wrong.

 

Today we went on a raid and we have a couple newer guys with us. They participated, had fun, helped the war effort greatly and had a great time. They cant even ride hell horses yet they were there.

 

You dont need moon metal weapons, drake sets or even tomes to win on pvp. You need a good team. Sure, you're not going to win a 1v1 on Chaos, but if you are on a 1v1, you are doing it wrong. 

 

Not even Dadd wearing scale and moon metal weapons while having all tomes can achieve anything alone on Chaos. Why? Because Chaos is not to be done alone. 

 

Oh and by the way, just because you like making money so much, it doesn't mean everyone else cares about it as much as you do. Most people on Chaos could care less about the value of items. Those who are succesful keep their drake sets to have fun with their friends, just like the game was intended to be.

 

Being competitive does not appeal to everyone. But for those that does, there is Chaos.

[Tora 7]

Dunno, I started game at epic (had no idea what it was, just tried the game) (2012?) years ago and loved it. No other game has dun same impact since or before. Havent been active pvp:er with this toon i now play, but was always ready to go with preavious one. Now as pver i think this game have nothing to offer, 2 months at indy and what the fok i should do other than farm.

 

Bring og Epic back (with peoples) please