Malcore

Why nobody pvps in wurm.

189 posts in this topic

Hello,

                         Now is the time to change how pvp works in wurm to get other players to Chaos. Most freedom players will never go to try pvp on Chaos due to the fact of such a steep risk. No other pvp games out there allow u to lose stats from a pvp fight. Please change this for the love of God make it where u dont lose any hard earned stats due to a fight with a player. Its bad enough  you lose all your gear on you which is a huge pain to replace. That alone is a huge penalty. Affinity should be quest driven. If you make theses changes to the pvp system I will move to Chaos and never look back. Im sure others will try it out! Please make theses hard changes.

Edited by Malcore

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you dont lose enough stats for it even to be a concern honestly

 

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ok you must not be a knight 90 plus fighting skill lol.if you lose 1 fighting skill at that level you will know what im talking about.

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7 minutes ago, Malcore said:

No other pvp games out there allow u to lose stats from a pvp fight.

 

I stopped there.

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There are a lot of reason why no one leaves their deeds / why most of chaos is empty and everyone on on freedom grinding skills. There is zero reason for anyone to play on Chaos.

 

 

I do agree the pvp'ers need some serious love from the Dev's. A reason to live / play / fight on Chaos. Atm it's just so broken. No reason for anyone to want to live / play or fight on Chaos. 

 

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Bah!  They should just realize that PvP is dead and gone and get rid of it.  Never understood PvP mentality - too lazy to make your own stuff so get 5 or 10 of your buddies to run around killing everyone in sight to steal their stuff.  It is just mind boggling.

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You lose .25 fs and .01 bstr, both of which are easy to get back unless you're over 90. Actual skills are only lost in pve deaths.

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One of the biggest I've heard is offline raiding (lack of protection offline no matter how well you build up.) 

Have players on at all form different time zones just is unfeasible. (with the numbers in pvp)

Its far to easy to take down a wall/buildings. What ever happened to the idea of sieging, last i checked, to siege a castle or fort took  weeks, months. in real life. but sure, this is a game which could be scaled down. Which brings me back to my first point. 

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15 minutes ago, Fendain said:

Bah!  They should just realize that PvP is dead and gone and get rid of it.  Never understood PvP mentality - too lazy to make your own stuff so get 5 or 10 of your buddies to run around killing everyone in sight to steal their stuff.  It is just mind boggling.

This is sarcasm, right...?

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32 minutes ago, Inventor said:

This is sarcasm, right...?

Nope not at all.  I have played PvP in other games and have NEVER seen a fair fight where the guy attacking me is less than 30 levels (or skill) above me and by themselves.  And those supposed grand PvP battles with many on each side - do not exist.  Just groups waiting outside the starting zone or safe town - favorite gathering place - to jump you and steal you items.

 

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1 hour ago, Fendain said:

Bah!  They should just realize that PvP is dead and gone and get rid of it.  Never understood PvP mentality - too lazy to make your own stuff so get 5 or 10 of your buddies to run around killing everyone in sight to steal their stuff.  It is just mind boggling.

Thanks for this. I needed the laugh.

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31 minutes ago, Fendain said:

Nope not at all.  I have played PvP in other games and have NEVER seen a fair fight where the guy attacking me is less than 30 levels (or skill) above me and by themselves.  And those supposed grand PvP battles with many on each side - do not exist.  Just groups waiting outside the starting zone or safe town - favorite gathering place - to jump you and steal you items.

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

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There is a lot in my opinion ways to fix the current state of PvP. I am not sure dying and losing a tiny bit of fight skill that you can easily replace if you get a kill really matters. However the game should not focus all the developer time trying to get PvP right. However he are a few simple ideas that I think would help get new players into it. I understand they might be controversial though. Please just keep a open mind.

 

Scaled player stats:

This would ideally be a system that will scaled people up or down to match their opponents in battle, so nothing is completely unfair for either side of a fight. Basically this would allow a new player more accessibility into PvP right from the get-go. PvP should not have the insane clear advantage it does with higher tiered account vs simple starter PvP accounts. There should still be some minimum requirements like 70 fight skill and 50 shield but that should be all you need to hold your own in PvP. Good play would be required to win a fight but less so on high shield skill or fight skill obviously. This would allow people with at least 70 fight skill feel extremely competitive to a 100 fight skill, with insane body strength. Pile-jumping is another thing that can't really be helped, power in numbers should still be the meta. 

 

Removal SoTG:

I think this is one of those broke things in Wurm all the PvPers think they need. Just remove it, there should be no advantage in PvP.

 

Removal of Tomes and Karma actions in PvP:

There is currently a huge advantage from tomes and people using Karma to do some wizard stuff in PvP. Not only does this scare away people it makes them not interested to give PvP a shot because of the Pay to Win aspect. Why do players need cheese in order to win? I feel like people who utilize these are just bad at the game in general. It's not a fair fight.

 

Keeping Tomes and Karma actions in PvP:

If people are against the removal, make Tomes easier to obtain and not just for PvP either. They should be able to be crafted with really high level skills 95+ and new rare materials that can be obtained from PvP and PvE. This could be implemented by just making something like a rare crystal scattered around the world or from doing missions. Something you obtain from a dead enemy.

 

Removal of dragon and drake in PvP:

Let's face it, there is a clear advantage to owning a set vs wearing plate. Pile-jumping is still how Wurm PvP works but you can last way longer and hold your own better with the use of these sets.

 

Keeping dragon and drake in PvP:

If people are against the removal of it, allow players to easily obtain possible scrap hide from PvP kills and or HoTA. Controversial yes, but with the new affinity system being offered I do think PvPers should get more incentive still for risking everything in a PvP battle.

 

Adding more incentive to PvP:

Allow PvPers to gain special cosmetic items from kills, that they can use to adorn their armour and weapons with unique special effects or skulls of their enemies. Nothing should give stats or clear advantages in PvP.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Edited by Niki
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At last check the incentives for pvp were and in no particular order, affinities, fs boosts, moonmetal ( until recently the only availability), volcanos, hota stuffs, distinct tabards/wagons/flags. Golly, you're right, folks on the pvp side of things need more to keep them playing there. /sarcasm off.

If pvp needs help that's fine, wipe the above list out and start over. Rolf championed pvp because it was his viewpoint that wurm was a pvp game. So he stacked bonuses on pvp for years and years trying to make it go. He even turned the pve map into pvp to try and make wurm full pvp. When he sank his own game, he stepped back and accepted that wurm is a better pve game. I'm not against different tabards on pvp and pve land, it adds spice and cool factor. To say you have to have bonuses and every 2 years need more bonuses to up numbers on pvp? That's entitlement at it's finest to me. Why does pvp scream about a block between pvp and pve on freedom like epic and freedom have? Could it be the gameplay is just that boring and without the ability to sail those knarrs to freedom loaded up it wouldn't be worth doing?  Could it be that really....the markets/deeds/templars on pvp would crash without pve to support them  :o 

Wurm Devs should take a good long look at pve and pvp, and why folks from pvp inevitably find their way to the carebear side of the map. Wurm pvp and pve should be different, they cater to different crowds, they always have. Perhaps its um, time for a Flag N Banner Kingdom, ya know, like alt12345 that brought the alt farming down :P

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Why is it "now" the time... having pvp'd a bit years ago, I would have figured it was time for change years ago.  Someone please inform him.

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4 hours ago, Sunnyside said:

There is zero reason for anyone to play on Chaos.

 

Why is it that PVE'ers give their opinions about Chaos like that? And they talk as if they represent the majority of players as if everyone simply agrees with them?

 

2 hours ago, Niki said:

Scaled player stats:

You even realize what ur saying here?

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6 minutes ago, Pingpong said:

At last check the incentives for pvp were and in no particular order, affinities, fs boosts, moonmetal ( until recently the only availability), volcanos, hota stuffs, distinct tabards/wagons/flags. Golly, you're right, folks on the pvp side of things need more to keep them playing there. /sarcasm off.

If pvp needs help that's fine, wipe the above list out and start over. Rolf championed pvp because it was his viewpoint that wurm was a pvp game. So he stacked bonuses on pvp for years and years trying to make it go. He even turned the pve map into pvp to try and make wurm full pvp. When he sank his own game, he stepped back and accepted that wurm is a better pve game. I'm not against different tabards on pvp and pve land, it adds spice and cool factor. To say you have to have bonuses and every 2 years need more bonuses to up numbers on pvp? That's entitlement at it's finest to me. Why does pvp scream about a block between pvp and pve on freedom like epic and freedom have? Could it be the gameplay is just that boring and without the ability to sail those knarrs to freedom loaded up it wouldn't be worth doing?  Could it be that really....the markets/deeds/templars on pvp would crash without pve to support them  :o 

Wurm Devs should take a good long look at pve and pvp, and why folks from pvp inevitably find their way to the carebear side of the map. Wurm pvp and pve should be different, they cater to different crowds, they always have. Perhaps its um, time for a Flag N Banner Kingdom, ya know, like alt12345 that brought the alt farming down :P

While I agree Pingpong, they do have a lot compared to freedom, however with the latest of giving affinities to freedom I do feel adamantly that there should be something small, to fill the gap for them. Why PvP at all otherwise? Most of the things you talked about are heavily contested areas and not even remotely possible for some kingdoms and casual PvPers. 

 

It's a game mode that should be treated with some respect at least, I'm not sure scrapping it all together should happen "yet." However removing the features and the OP nature of current PvP mechanics should happen soon. I do think if left untreated this game will never evolve for the better. Sometimes you need to face the facts and accept modernization for outdated game systems to promote a healthy future for your game.

 

Thanks.

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3 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

You even realize what ur saying here?

Indeed. You think I'm crazy don't you? Can you elaborate why you're against scaling technology?

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1 minute ago, Niki said:

Indeed. You think I'm crazy don't you? Can you elaborate why you're against scaling technology?

Because people rather not spend years honing their accounts and making them strong to just have a 2 day old guy come over and clean their clock making all their effort wasted.

 

Same reason why PVErs don't want someone brand new to imp stuff to 90ql without doing any effort to gain the skill first. Look at all the uproar allowing people from Epic to come to Chaos caused, and those guys actually grinded their skills.

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didn't Rolf want the game to be 100% pvp only years ago. 

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13 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Because people rather not spend years honing their accounts and making them strong to just have a 2 day old guy come over and clean their clock making all their effort wasted.

 

Same reason why PVErs don't want someone brand new to imp stuff to 90ql without doing any effort to gain the skill first. Look at all the uproar allowing people from Epic to come to Chaos caused, and those guys actually grinded their skills.

Well sure I do understand this argument 100% but, it simply creates more issues long term. People feel the requirement to buy into PvP, could be accounts, high end gear, even sleep powder so they can catch up. The fact remains is this giant pay wall for what should be a fun system for people to enjoy. There is simply to much of a power gap between 70 fight skill, 50 shield no SoTG vs 100 fight skill, 100 shield, SoTG and the insane characteristics they would have. A extreme example but a valid one I think. 

 

High end characters should not be gods that rule the battleground, it's broken, and a lot of money IRL should not be the answer. This would stop the trade of PvP accounts as well because it's no longer a requirement to partake in high end PvP.

Edited by Niki
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4 hours ago, Malcore said:

change how pvp works in wurm to get other players to Chaos.

Most freedom players will never go to try pvp on Chaos due to the fact of such a steep risk.

No other pvp games out there allow u to lose stats from a pvp fight. 

3 quick points about the above

 

1. improving PvP will not get other players to Chaos ... this has been tried and proven ineffective time and time again .... yes a slight short term increase can be achieved but anything meaningful and long term, nope.

2. Sorry but the main reason people don't go and try PvP on Chaos isn't the risk .... it's the plain and simple fact most players do not have the slightest interest in PvP

3. No other PvP game of the last decade is as bad as Wurm for PvP .... in fact i would suggest the only people who play on Chaos arn't PvP'ers because the PvP experience in a almost any game created in the last decade is far superior to the PvP experience here. So the only people who PvP on Wurm are Wurm players who are interested in PvP ... not PvP'ers who are interested in Wurm and that difference is very significant if you want to increase the PvP population.

 

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Just now, Niki said:

Well sure I do understand this argument 100% but, it simply creates more issues long term. People feel the requirement to buy into PvP, could be accounts, high end gear, even sleep powder so they can catch up. The fact remains is this giant pay wall for what should be a fun system for people to enjoy. There is simply to much of a power gap between 70 fight skill, 50 shield no SoTG vs 100 fight skill, 100 shield, SoTG and the insane characteristics they would have. A extreme example but a valid one I think. 

 

High end characters should not be gods that rule the battleground, it's broken, and a lot of money IRL should not be the answer.

 

Your mistake is to assume all pvp is measured in stats and who is stronger than who. What a lot of non-pvpers fail to realize, is that PVP is not just two guys bashing their brains out. In fact, there is very few instances of someone fidning someone else randomly on the wild and killing them. You can go hunt without impunity on Chaos, and as long as you stay away from heavily populated areas or deeds, you can pretty much guarantee your safety. 

 

The meat and potatoes of PVP is in groups. Hota, raids, traps, group battles. Even a 30 body account can do a lot on PVP. a 30 body account can take a trebuchet and skill it up to 18 skill on their own deed, and then go man trebuchets. Or mine shards for ammo, or make bricks for wall defense, or help create structures, walls, dig, make mines... or even pvp. Archery can be taken to 40 and used to kill horses from afar. You can grind short bows and shoot people from near your mine hop. You can get in and out of battle hopping or staying behind your team.

 

a low skill player is not useless by any means of the word. People think they can do nothing because their account is new, yet TC consistently employs newer players on our raids and fights. 

 

5 minutes ago, Niki said:

High end characters should not be gods that rule the battleground, it's broken, and a lot of money IRL should not be the answer.

 

This is a very ignorant statement. High end characters are not gods. Anything hit hard enough will drop. Ask Dadd and Torreto, they will tell you. Stats alone don't dictate outcomes.

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3 minutes ago, Ratlin said:

because the PvP experience in a almost any game created in the last decade is far superior to the PvP experience here

Name one

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1 minute ago, Gladiator said:

Name one

Pubg

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