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sleepys

Cheating or not?

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With that logic the players are to blame for the pay to win. No one has sell their account but people value time and staff team as well recognize that. You might as well ban the trade chat cause its pay to win as well. You are able avoid grinding a fo priest to get LT on your sword cause people will pay to get an enchant than grind their own priest.

As well falling for the most basic trap of grinded stats = pvp god somehow lol.

 

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My 2c.

 

Player 1 of Kingdom 1 contacts Player 2 of Kingdom 2 and they mutually agree to hate each other till the end of time, and oh, kill each other forever, until they both have all affinities.  How do you determine their motive?  Is it genuine pvp or staged pvp for the purpose of affinities?  Are Player 1 and Player 2 the same human being?  You cant tell.  I cant tell.  Nobody can tell.  That's my point.  How can you regulate/control player-vs-player motives?  You cant.

 

Why was this "feature" of gaining someone's singular affinity via an act of PVP not immediately recognizable by the entire world as an exploitable feature, since you cannot accurately define an act of pvp?  It has been allowed forever, to the point now where there is no possible way to make anything right with respect to affinities except to remove affinity flags from every character in the game and start over with a whole new set of rules for everyone -- or -- forget about it and let it continue as a feature so people will stop whining about it.  There is no other fix for this, no other rules-going-forward, no other way to even the score or make it fair, none!  If affinity farming is deemed an exploit by the dev team, it has always been an exploit, and if it is to be changed, it has to start with a clean slate for everyone. Anything else is just a band-aid to a problem that will resurface later in another form.

 

No charge for this humble analysis.

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And what about all the people that already farmed like 50 affinities since 2s prem exists? I'm on Chaos for not that long and already I've seen players slaying 5 or more alts named 'Randomname1' 'Randomname2' 'Randomname3' etc, and going back to freedom... I have over 25 affinities farmed in my death tabs, and that's only when I've been online. A few hours on a practice doll and you can get an affinity that costs 20s

Edited by Vomusu

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I guess that's my question too, so now affinity farming via alt is a bannable offense, but it's gone on in documented cases for 6+ years and all that is ignored? Kinda strikes ya as a bit one sided in protecting the folks bending the rules as they are now documented.

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There have been many windows of opportunities throughout the years.  Most of those resulted in no rollbacks of any kind.  Killing alts for affinities and/or fight skill has gone on as long as I have played.  The only time I ever saw anything done about it had to do with champions because of the point system they had.  I see no way possible to roll back some and say well you just happened to be at the end of the band wagon and ignore that it has gone on so much before.  Just my 2 cents.  ( I should add I play on freedom and the short times I did play on chaos/epic, I did not farm either of these)

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I'm a new player to pvp. I definitely not an affinity farmer, quite easy to check :P

Still I'm not a bit concerned that this window is closed now, I have never considered to buy or farm affinities - I did not even switch the single affinities on my toons where it could be more handy on the other account.

Thank you - I'm curious about the new system to come.

Could it benefit staying on a pvp server for longer periods - like an affinity for being logged in Epic for a defined time? :P

Edited by Jaz

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55 minutes ago, Pingpong said:

I guess that's my question too, so now affinity farming via alt is a bannable offense, but it's gone on in documented cases for 6+ years and all that is ignored? Kinda strikes ya as a bit one sided in protecting the folks bending the rules as they are now documented.

 

Unless I've misread it, it's only bannable until the update since the mechanic is changing and the temporary rule is to curb it and block people from rushing in as hard as they can before the update

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Oh hi folks! I have this idea wich i have told allready several times on this forum..

 

 

tHe BesteST pLAn 2018

Step 1: Remove all affinities from game (OMG OMG) We dont need those because we love grinding (we all do)

Step 2: Separate PVP and PVE aka No travelling on any form between PVP and PVE servers (dont tell Rolf)

 

Tadah, problems gone. Go back grinding and start smiling again. This tip was totally free :)

 

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16 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

Unless I've misread it, it's only bannable until the update since the mechanic is changing and the temporary rule is to curb it and block people from rushing in as hard as they can before the update

So what we have is a large wall to separate the haves from the have nots?

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5 minutes ago, Ulost said:

Oh hi folks! I have this idea wich i have told allready several times on this forum..

 

 

tHe BesteST pLAn 2018

Step 1: Remove all affinities from game (OMG OMG) We dont need those because we love grinding (we all do)

Step 2: Separate PVP and PVE aka No travelling on any form between PVP and PVE servers (dont tell Rolf)

 

Tadah, problems gone. Go back grinding and start smiling again. This tip was totally free :)

 

 

You do realise the PVE servers rely on the PVP servers for a lot of their trade - right? Also that most Chaos players travel back and forth and consider themselves just as much "Freedomers" as those that live there fulltime,they have their deeds and are apart of the community. The bulk market would suffer as would sales for tomes, scale, drake from uniques. Drake sets, platesets, weapons... you'd be surprised how many goods sourced on pve servers ends up on Chaos. Let alone all that bulk dirt. Your solution will cause more problems then it would solve imo.

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24 minutes ago, Ulost said:

Step 1: Remove all affinities from game (OMG OMG) We dont need those because we love grinding (we all do)

Step 1.5: Refunds

 

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Yeah but in what form would the refunds be, 10 hours sleep bonus :/  I strongly disagree, and this game can not afford to compensate each affinity everyone has.

 

 

Edited by Evarya

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30 minutes ago, Iberis said:

 

You do realise the PVE servers rely on the PVP servers for a lot of their trade - right? Also that most Chaos players travel back and forth and consider themselves just as much "Freedomers" as those that live there fulltime,they have their deeds and are apart of the community. The bulk market would suffer as would sales for tomes, scale, drake from uniques. Drake sets, platesets, weapons... you'd be surprised how many goods sourced on pve servers ends up on Chaos. Let alone all that bulk dirt. Your solution will cause more problems then it would solve imo.

 

Shouldn't PvP be something more than an outlet for PvE goods?

 

To be honest, it sounds backwards. From my perspective, PvE servers shouldn't be supplying PvP servers; it should be the other way around. PvE servers should have limited resources; the good stuff should only be available at increased risk on PvP servers.

 

Building seriously on a PvE server should -require- effort on a PvP server (whether that effort is done personally, or purchased). A simple example would be to cap QL of resources on PvE, and only have X+ QL resources spawn on PvP servers (including trees and even farmed veggies).

 

For that matter, uniques and rifts should only spawn on PvP servers (again, my point of view, but would certainly solve the unique-slaying-mafia issue! :P ).

 

I realize it's much too late to change that balance, but it seems ironic that (as far as I know) PvE-ers only needed to go to PvP servers to affinity-farm, and now even that's going away. Yes, good riddance, but PvP really looks like an afterthought bolted onto Wurm PvE. :(

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1 hour ago, Pingpong said:

So what we have is a large wall to separate the haves from the have nots?

Any change would result in that so yes

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5 hours ago, Evilreaper said:

i dont see a problem here... wurm is a game dedicated to rewarding the rich and screwing the poor... nobody wants to pvp because its all pay to win... not even slighly pay to win.... wurm is so far beyond pay to win its stupid... people can become instant pvp gods for 2500+ euros and never grind a single skill! just go to trades and buy a lambo pvp account.... the account selling is the underlying issue here... more affinitys and higher fs jacks up the price of an account considerably!  many of the accounts i see in that list i have also seen in the past in the for sale section of the forums...

 

there is no pride in wurm... you cant have pride in a toon you didnt grind

lots of these people complaining about alt farming are 100% guilty of cheating and pvp'ing on toons they didnt grind... wurm is pay to win, sorry if that hurts your feels but even pve is broken due to the pay-to-winism that we call wurm

 

To be honest, there's a lot more to becoming a "pvp god" than simply buying a $2000 account and gear. There are numerous examples of people who've bought top-tier accounts within their respective time periods and have died repeatedly because they didn't have basic PvP knowledge, or did not want to work together with others (some have even perma-killed champion accounts).

 

Without the knowledge of how to PvP, you cannot expect to win. And I feel that's more of the underlying issue lately, rather than account selling.

 

Literally, every kingdom is full of accounts that were bought, yet which kingdoms are on top? The ones with the experience, knowledge, and adaptability, not the ones who constantly complain about every update and cannot adapt to occurring changes. Look at MRC, JKC, and numerous other kingdoms on Chaos, and on Epic, that cease to exist. They could not, for whatever reason, adapt to changes that make the game better, and relied on flawed game mechanics to survive, so instead, they crumbled, certainly complaining about others success on their spiral down.

 

I'm sure some will use the alt killing removal as some sort of basis for quitting (or selling out!), but that just goes along with the idea of not being able to adapt to change.

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Only 97.7% Pride with my account. :-(

 

Let it be known that Shankiest ruined my account when he bought it. 

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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

Shouldn't PvP be something more than an outlet for PvE goods?

 

To be honest, it sounds backwards. From my perspective, PvE servers shouldn't be supplying PvP servers; it should be the other way around. PvE servers should have limited resources; the good stuff should only be available at increased risk on PvP servers.

 

Building seriously on a PvE server should -require- effort on a PvP server (whether that effort is done personally, or purchased). A simple example would be to cap QL of resources on PvE, and only have X+ QL resources spawn on PvP servers (including trees and even farmed veggies).

 

For that matter, uniques and rifts should only spawn on PvP servers (again, my point of view, but would certainly solve the unique-slaying-mafia issue! :P ).

 

I realize it's much too late to change that balance, but it seems ironic that (as far as I know) PvE-ers only needed to go to PvP servers to affinity-farm, and now even that's going away. Yes, good riddance, but PvP really looks like an afterthought bolted onto Wurm PvE. :(

 

If you want that kind of gameplay, go play Archeage.  I'd rather not deal with PvP to do my thing.

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What Eyesgood said, It's been going on forever. 

 

It's nice that they're finally fixing this, but the game has been out for a decade. I think theres going to be a pretty large gap between players who have been abusing this system  for so long and players who haven't decided to get into PVP yet (like myself). 

 

Being such a huge problem this should have been addressed years ago

 

They really have to find a way to level the playing field or people like me will have no interest in heading onto Chaos.

 

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Interesting everyone complaining that its been done for years but won't provide a solution to the known problem. So they rather keep the problem to abuse it later down the road than better the game.

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I didn't read many response's on this thread, but I don't condone alt-killing, I think people using alts as spies to locate people, villages, or weaknesses though is a bigger issue. I personally don't feel someone killing their alt a thousand times is giving them any real PvP advantage. Yes, it makes an account better, but even the best accounts on Epic are some of the worst PvPers. That's just the truth. It doesn't really matter how good your account is in a game that's heavily based around numbers and tactics. That person in the screenshot can kill that alt until he has every affinity in the game, 1900 rank, and 100FS, but the minute he goes into combat if he's outnumbered he's likely screwed like the rest. Be the best worst account or the best account, your chance of success is really based your kingdom versus their kingdom. 

 

But I don't really care, it sounds like they already clamped down on affinity farming so that's cool, but honestly it's a bit odd it took this long. This was happening several years ago. 

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1 hour ago, Demonix said:

 

If you want that kind of gameplay, go play Archeage.  I'd rather not deal with PvP to do my thing.

 

Well, that's rather the point. :) In your case, you'd take advantage of goods provided by PvPers to do your thing on PvE so you wouldn't have to deal with PvP.

 

It's kind of a trade deficit thing: what goods does PvP produce that PvE needs, and vice versa? Right now, it sounds almost entirely one way: PvE servers produce nearly everything traded, and PvP servers consume that but produce almost nothing in exchange.

 

In my view, it would be better if PvE still produced bulk goods, but PvP produced the tomes, rift mats, moonmetal, scale, high QL metals, bones, etc.

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We provide money thats the exchange kek.

We can do it ourselves but majority players on chaos value time.

Also freedomers cried to get all perks pvp servers had thats why you guys don't need anything from us besides hota statues.Even then freedomers are asking for a way get on pve servers as well.

EDIT: asking for a way get hota statues on pve server as well.

Edited by shankiest

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12 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

Well, that's rather the point. :) In your case, you'd take advantage of goods provided by PvPers to do your thing on PvE so you wouldn't have to deal with PvP.

 

It's kind of a trade deficit thing: what goods does PvP produce that PvE needs, and vice versa? Right now, it sounds almost entirely one way: PvE servers produce nearly everything traded, and PvP servers consume that but produce almost nothing in exchange.

 

In my view, it would be better if PvE still produced bulk goods, but PvP produced the tomes, rift mats, moonmetal, scale, high QL metals, bones, etc.

I agree with this, mainly because most if not all succesful game economies are based on quality of products and difficulty obtaining such products. In Wurm, everything is more or less easy to get, since every single crafting material obtained is done with replenisheable sources or random chance: You don't have to run a dungeon and pit your skills to obtain the most rare of materials, nor do you have to risk your neck in PVP lands, possibly becoming a mark in the process. All materials are available with zero player skill or risk involved, and the only thing that stops someone is being lazy.

 

This means that the bulk of the value of a given product is based solely on its supply and demand. Nothing else. If you are skeptical, look at the price of a Knarr, and how absurdly complex and time consuming it is. You can probably make 10 90ql plate sets in the amount of time it takes you to make a knarr from scratch. But there is no demand, so their value is very limited.

 

In order to thrive, the pvp community needs people who take risks. For example, imagine there is a crystal that only grows randomly on Chaos which is used to make a potion that increases the chance of getting a skill tic.You can pay, say, 5s for the potion, or you can sail to Chaos and go hunt these crystals on your own. Sure, some people who refuse to go to Chaos would simply buy them, but there would be a few freedomers who will feel adventurous enough to sail over and take the risk.

 

So the denizens of Chaos get to either make money from finding these crystals, or a chance at pvp when they find a random freedomer hunting them. 

 

There should always be a better gain from the risk you take from going to a pvp server. This is why the affinity system did not work for its intended purpose. And now yet another feature of the PVP server is going to get ripped out and given to PVE. 

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1 hour ago, shankiest said:

Interesting everyone complaining that its been done for years but won't provide a solution to the known problem. So they rather keep the problem to abuse it later down the road than better the game.

Thats a heavily invalid statement. If you check the first page I made a post of a solution to "clean" the issue. Throwing around false statements is rather... sad to look at.

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