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sleepys

Cheating or not?

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When i started the game was told not kill alts because its against the rules. But time and time again i see people killing alts in chaos and for me it ....well makes me mad. Others do a lot of work to get skill...seems not all of are. Eaven killing for affinity gives u major FS. never done it my self but have seen ppl posting the ticks. So i ask can it be banned? or is it necessary for freedom to get them for marketing purpose? And before u start trolling me just have 1 affinity and will lose it when ....and if someone can kill me. If ppl need affinities because they are too lazy to skill they should not play the game. IF its not against the rules am gonna start too because its major benefit for the one who has them. So again will ask can we all start to get 100 FS? and limitless affinities? Just some intel in the pick whats going on.....               https://imgur.com/a/TFVKV

 

 

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those accounts should be rolled back, but thats my opinion. Sounds like they caught wind of a possible change and are chancing it by just going crazy. 
But right now, this is just for FS gains, which will be big and easy. So yeah still a -1

in a different post it was said to be getting addressed, so don't let it stress you too much. 
Just hope w/e that means is in favor of stopping this. 
 

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Edited by Mclavin
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And the killing by Ebo alts continues..... over 24 kills so far and counting, this is cheating in my books too but I dont think the devs believe that :/. Buddha did say in the other thread this will be changed or stopped , jsut wish the affinities will be taken off the exploiters

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+1 to a rollback of affinities and any other gains they get from multiple alt killings

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How is this any different then what was done to the others 60%-80% of accounts that are on chaos...

 

this all come's down to window of opportunity and it is closing.. get off the pot or get left behind

 

 

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Sadly it is a meta and there isnt a whole lot that can be done about it. Not much can be done to allow game mechanics to detect the difference between an alt kill and a legitimate, real, player kill. So the problem with nerfing FS Gains from pvp are obvious because you are taking away more from the PvP-side of the game's already negligible benefits and rewards. At this point there is literally nothing that PvP has to offer that a PvE server does not, thusly there is no reason to play there. Moonmetals are given out at rifts, the worth of having a level 5 affinity was recently trashed by the cooking system, not even Libila enchantments remain a chaos-only commodity. So aside from giving decent FS gains at higher levels (90+) and maybe HOTA statues which noone cares about, PVP has nothing to offer its players by way of reward other than the experience itself.

Edited by whereami

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11 minutes ago, whereami said:

Not much can be done to allow game mechanics to detect the difference between an alt kill and a legitimate, real, player kill. So the problem with nerfing FS Gains from pvp are obvious because you are taking away more from the PvP-side of the game's already negligible benefits and rewards.

In situations such as this however, it's obvious what's going on, and incredibly easy to see what accounts are involved. As such, in this situation (and others like it) ill-gotten skills should be rolled back. 

 

Although a rollback didn't happen last time, so I'm not holding much hope. 

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I dont see that much wrong with people paying extra money to get their skills higher. But games often have an "incomplete" feeling when you see something like that pop up in chat. If people are paying money/silver to make an alt just to murder them for affinities, why not clean it up a bit by making a random affinity purchasable and remove the automatic regen of affinities and initial affinities. The majority of players I have seen get their affinities in a crappy spot or in a decent area that they have no care for, so I dont think removing initial affinities would cause an uproar. The recovery of affinities from alts is what makes them farmable. Seems like it would be better to just pay 1e or 2s for affinities (to encourage paying money) and dump everything except affinity stealing in pvp.

 

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Its been said many times that there is no bugs or exploits used when transferring an affinity. Fact is which many of you are blind to see is you have no idea how much money is actually pumped into transferring an affinity from an account that is not just a throwaway alt. The argument a month ago from some of you was IMO more legit because it was aimed towards literal newly made 2s alts and suggestions were made that FS needs to be increased and perhaps a running premium time and not just 2s alts making people benefit (which actually still benefits codeclub AB).    

 

Fact is a high skilled toon who is a priest and has no use of some affinities and yes changing hands. Nothing about it is done in any exploitive way. And for the comments calling for roll backs... I would like to see roll backs of all the real exploitive skills players have benefited from in the years of actual exploitation and secrecy of such things. 

 

Sleepys I dont know how old or new you are to wurm but I've been here since 07 and have watched people benefit from true exploits they went out of their way to create or recreate in secrecy. Transfering of a few affinities which has nothing to do with people complaining nor does it have anything to do with exploiting is the least of wurms problems. 

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5s for 15 days. 10s for 30 days. Sell the refer you get if you buy 1 months prem and roughly works out to about 7s right? 

And yes all exploited skills should have been rolled back, we can all agree on that. Broken.

If you want to ruin a higher end acc with affinties or to gain FS, idc about that, seems like a different issue from the 2s alt thing, but defo the same mentality behind it. It's a side issue I hope gets addressed with the main issue. 

You shouldn't be getting FS gains for training in the saftey of your cave, you should be out in the world killing players to get those gains or out roaming for animals and actually taking the time it takes to go that path.
We all know kiling a player = more fs gains, so you're skipping the danger of losing fs yourself, to just get to the reward of gaining it. 

So yes, same problem, different reasons. 

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Seems really wrong to me that this is a thing.:mellow:

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Before i give anymore thought on this topic.

 

I would like a clear "yes its allowed" or "no its not", from the dev's would solve 1/2 the debate above.

- killing alts for FS

- killing alts for affinity

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well it's about changing the answers to that. But right now it's allowed. Tho I'm not a GM so who knows the Real thoughts

Edited by Mclavin

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First of all I am not a Chaos resident but I know bad game design when I see it so please consider my feedback.

 

I had a nice post about this elsewhere but I'll restate how I feel about it.

 

Affinity farming should be something that is discontinued on chaos permanently! Figure a way to prevent future abuse. Here is something I'd potentially go with. The people who exploited this mechanic should be prevented from returning to chaos indefinitely, banned for severe cases and should be prevented from taking advantage of my next step below.

 

What's the next step? Chaos should have a new system that encourages PvP but I'll get to that later. I would then change how affinities are given out. Affinities are sort of a highly sought thing among players of freedom and chaos respectfully. Affinities should be then rewarded for skilling such as milestones 50 skill, 70 skill, 90, 100, or it could simply be tied to a rare or supreme successful roll as a extra bonus. Both clusters should be allowed to get rewarded in this way.

 

This would make a lot of people happy, especially those who never exploited this mechanic to have 5 affinities in every skill. I know many players on Niarja who never have fought another a real battle on Chaos but have tons of them. I shake my head in disbelief seriously! Relatively new accounts I might add! This is unacceptable and it's creating a issue where it brings up a good question. What's the point of PvP, if people just exploit their way into affinities? Stop it!

 

How do you make it so PvP is rewarding again? Easy, I'm pretty sure giving them a new resource that helps them in PvP would work. Nothing overpowered but something that should be a chaos exclusive, worth while - that would help them. HoTA statues I must say are a extremely pathetic reward as well, that has never once made me say "Hey I should do that!" However the moonmetal from HoTA I guess makes up for that.

 

Think about it, think of the poor Chaoticans. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Edited by Niki
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56 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

well it's about changing the answers to that. But right now it's allowed. Tho I'm not a GM so who knows the Real thoughts

It's a bit of a grey area to me. and maybe a few others reading this thread. 

 

"Cheating 
Definition:
* Obvious abuse of any exploit, bug or other method of gaining skill/items that is not as intended."

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-rules/#comment-1265236

 

 

--- One could say: its an exploit, and or/ not as intended game play from the quote above. 

but it not clearly defined. (alt farming)

 

 

 

I agree with you Niki it was a bad design, far to easy to exploit, in my view.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Niki said:

5+ affinities in every skill

 

you can only have 5 affinities max per skill

 

@MaurizioAMhow many converts do these alts have under /converts

 

and trying to justify this as being good for the game with things like pumping money into it is just hilarious

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6 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

you can only have 5 affinities max per skill

Yeah not sure why I did a +

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2 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

Its been said many times that there is no bugs or exploits used when transferring an affinity. Fact is which many of you are blind to see is you have no idea how much money is actually pumped into transferring an affinity from an account that is not just a throwaway alt. The argument a month ago from some of you was IMO more legit because it was aimed towards literal newly made 2s alts and suggestions were made that FS needs to be increased and perhaps a running premium time and not just 2s alts making people benefit (which actually still benefits codeclub AB).    

 

Fact is a high skilled toon who is a priest and has no use of some affinities and yes changing hands. Nothing about it is done in any exploitive way. And for the comments calling for roll backs... I would like to see roll backs of all the real exploitive skills players have benefited from in the years of actual exploitation and secrecy of such things. 

 

Sleepys I dont know how old or new you are to wurm but I've been here since 07 and have watched people benefit from true exploits they went out of their way to create or recreate in secrecy. Transfering of a few affinities which has nothing to do with people complaining nor does it have anything to do with exploiting is the least of wurms problems. 

Windows of opportunities have been abused far to long, instead of taking advantage of loopholes or a severely broke mechanics such as this, why don't you try to report the issue for a change and see what happens? 

 

I know you're all about getting new players into your kingdom, that's great and all but when has Chaos or any PvP for that matter really been fair for those new players? They work their butts off to get skilled and competitive then they see veterans such as yourself and your fellow kingdom mates using a cheap "meta" to get good faster. Well I'd say it ruins the experience for them for sure. I've always been against the delay to fix these issues. This one in particular is ancient but it's still frowned upon by respectful players. Similar to those that have taken advantage of some other meta in the past, such as getting 100 fight skill or really high shield skill from afk. It's really not fair for the new PvPers at all.

 

I once spoke about a system that scaled people up or down to match their opponents in battle slightly, so nothing is completely unfair for either side of a fight. Good play would be required to win a fight but less so on high shield skill or fight skill obviously. This would allow people with at least 70 fight skill feel extremely competitive to a 100 fight skill, with insane body strength. Pile-jumping is another thing that can't really be helped, power in numbers should still be the meta.

 

Most veterans on chaos have taken advantage of so many things your right about that. The real question remains, what's the point? What's the point on being on Chaos if your not going to play fair? I'm just trying to be real here. What your doing is just cringe to me as a gamer.

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We've already stated that this will be looked into, I understand there's frustration in those who are abusing the existing mechanics to extremes though. 

 

We're taking a lot of feedback about it all on board and will have a solution that covers many aspects here, affinity farming, alt slaying for both fs and affinities, and affinities in pve. 

 

With that said, until this update comes out we will be taking a hard line against anyone slaying alts for affinities or fight skill, up to and including bans. 

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How does converts help you justify its not? But between other owners and chaos history of dissolved kingdoms and change of groups, my toons have probably less converts under their belt sitting at 3 - 7 converts vs someone like Unknown who is either sitting at similar or more converts then most of my accounts.

 

And PVP incentive is #1 just because of the style of game play, that is the biggest reason why most pvpers lean towards pvp in any game they play on, next #2 is the fun factor which in some games that might be at a higher level, meanwhile in other games they resort to lvl #3 which relies on giving incentives which people then find a reason to cry about at some point in time. 

 

It is no where near as easy as some make it out to be, and risk is always a factor regardless of what excuses some people will claim. Fact of the matter is, there is no cheat going on to magically spawn these affinities, many of the affinities in hind sight have been obtained by pvp after all and being on the server for a long time. 

 

You wanna talk about whats more cringe vs anything else? The fact that today no one can play an MMORPG how they like to play with the mechanics allowed to them because everyone has something to say about it, and there is supposed to be a one sided way of playing. But the funniest part of it is, while one person might be taking some affinities from another account they own that is so looked down upon vs someone that would rip off players there is nothing at all wrong with that.

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

We've already stated that this will be looked into, I understand there's frustration in those who are abusing the existing mechanics to extremes though. 

 

We're taking a lot of feedback about it all on board and will have a solution that covers many aspects here, affinity farming, alt slaying for both fs and affinities, and affinities in pve. 

 

With that said, until this update comes out we will be taking a hard line against anyone slaying alts for affinities or fight skill, up to and including bans. 

 

FINALLY. THANK YOU!

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6 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

We've already stated that this will be looked into, I understand there's frustration in those who are abusing the existing mechanics to extremes though. 

 

We're taking a lot of feedback about it all on board and will have a solution that covers many aspects here, affinity farming, alt slaying for both fs and affinities, and affinities in pve. 

 

With that said, until this update comes out we will be taking a hard line against anyone slaying alts for affinities or fight skill, up to and including bans. 

Keep the pay to win player accounts worth more...
what about the people that been doing this for the last 6 years?

REMOVE THEM ALL... from everyone...
 

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