Snapo

would you consider this cheating?

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EDIT! i just realized i posted in the WRONG part of the forum...i am very sorry for this...
i'll take care to not do this again...


i posted this on the steam forums and wanted to see what you guys would say.
this is a copy and paste of what it was...


first read the whole post. and explain why or why not.
second i play solo so it doesnt matter if i do it or not.

would you consider it cheating to use an external program that auto clicks the mouse?
the program itself only clicks where the mouse cursor is and doesnt do anything else.
it will NOT work as a bot.
the only thing it can do gameplay wise is...click a button that does an action.

for example. you need to go somewhere for a minute.
you turn on your auto clicker and mine where a ore vein is.
you get back and you mined up to the limit of 100 ore on the floor and cannot mine there again until clearing it out.

you cant use it to do any movement or anything on the keyboard.
its just a program that clicks the mouse where the pointer is.

personally i dont consider it cheating.
since its very limited and cannot really play for you.
its like the little toy bird that dips into water and goes up and down as if its drinking. and using it to press a button repeatedly to do one simple thing while you use the toilet or get a drink.

Edited by Snapo

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Well it's basically considered a macro. If you are away from your keyboard or not present in the game while doing actions, it's against the rules.  Staff members will PM people sometimes and give them a time-frame in which they need to respond, and if they don't. Well... It won't be a good consequence I'd say.

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Bothered to read the rules at all?

 

" Definition: A macro is any software/hardware that automates the sending of actions to the game server without user interaction and is not permitted. "

 

So autoclicker, without moving a cursor or with, is not allowed.

 

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I'm pretty sure this is equal to jaming a key on keyboard stuck which is against rules. So yeah someone doing this could get banned imo...

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Wurm rules can be found here:

 

As has been pointed out, using an automatic clicker in Wurm Online is against the rules and may result in your account being banned.

 

I'm assuming you're asking about WO, since you posted in the non-WU part of the forums, but if you're referring to WU, what you do on your own personal server in Wurm Unlimited is entirely up to you.

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In Wurm Online using a key clicker can get your account banned.

 

However you said you originally posted to the Steam forum so you're probably playing Wurm Unlimited in which case it's your server and you can play however you want. Who would ban you if you're the only player and GM on it ?

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ah i see.
i use it on solo play for wurm unlimited... but i only use it when going to the bathroom or getting a drink.
but anytime i think something is even SLIGHTLY against rules of a game...i always ask. even if its more likely to not be.

i can do without it if i played multiplayer.

still i dont consider it cheating since it doesnt give me an advantage.
just lets me go to the restroom without having to rush just to get back in the game.

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In singleplayer WurmUnlimited, it's up to you to make up all the rules so there really is no concept of "cheating" at all. Instead it is more like a difficulty slider that you get to create yourself to find the perfect blend of challenge vs convenience to make the game "fun" for you.  Ideally, the more fun it is for you, the more you will want to come back and play it over and over again. 

 

Multiplayer is another story -- in multiplayer there are preset rules that everyone must follow regardless whether they agree with them or not. This creates stability and a level playing field and reduces resentments and frustrations for everyone. Whether you consider it an important rule or not, is not the issue, it is in a sense a social contract you make with the community, and in WU at least, if you disagree then you have the freedom to setup your own version of the perfect multiplayer server. In any case it is an indication of social immaturity to cheat or break rules  in a multiplayer game. 

 

 

In singleplayer though, so-called "macros" are no different than adjusting the slider that determines how fast you gain skills, or which tools you start with, or how hostile the animals are --all of which is built right into WU and no one considers it "cheating" to adjust this.   

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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Any automation without human interaction(besides already queued actions, which is a game feature) is botting IMO.:rolleyes:

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17 hours ago, Wimblonian said:

Well it's basically considered a macro. If you are away from your keyboard or not present in the game while doing actions, it's against the rules. 

 

17 hours ago, Wilczan said:

Definition: A macro is any software/hardware that automates the sending of actions to the game server without user interaction and is not permitted. "

 

Thats not enough information to classify what is against the rules, I found out later that even if you interact with every action (which means you are at your keyboard, present doing actions) you can still be going against the rules. I made a macro that had the same end result (ability to improve something by clicking without looking flawlessly, and then repair afterwards) as another person's macro. Only difference was that mine made chat cleaner.

Example:

Spoiler

[XX:XX:XX] The file does not need the touch of a hammer. 

[XX:XX:XX] The file does not need the touch of a whetstone. 

[XX:XX:XX] The file does not need the touch of an iron lump.

[XX:XX:XX] You begin to improve the file.

 

rather than this, I would get this

[XX:XX:XX] You begin to improve the file.

 

Both improve the file without looking, but require you to click a button...

 

So if you ever plan on simplifying your wurm life, keep all your macros as a series of button clicks that can not repeat. NOTHING else. Rules don't really specify that well.

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I'll also slip this here

 

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Moved to Community Assistance. :) 

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@yiraia your macro is 3rd party, being keyboard/mouse macro or another program performing the actions. Your actions have to be performed by you, not a program making your life easier(botting).

Wurm keybinds simplify things well enough, if a person starts pressing the same 1 key to perform more than 1 kind of action... something's wrong.... as kebinds are also limited to doing just 1 thing alone per keybind/keypress.:mellow:

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

@yiraia your macro is 3rd party, being keyboard/mouse macro or another program performing the actions. Your actions have to be performed by you, not a program making your life easier(botting).

The other macro was also 3rd party. And the two macros had the same easy-ness to them, one simply didnt spam chat. 

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

if a person starts pressing the same 1 key to perform more than 1 kind of action... something's wrong.... as kebinds are also limited to doing just 1 thing alone per keybind/keypress.:mellow:

devs already confirmed that you are allowed to use a macro that spams all the buttons to imp. Did you take a peek at the post i slipped in there?

 

Badget:

Quote

Set tools you need for improve on toolbelt. Bind i improve, bind r repair, Set 1i2i3i4i5ir for one button.

Just presses a bunch of keys.This macro is only useful for a person with 50+ mind logic though. Anybody below would need 1ir2ir3ir4ir5ir. This would try to improve, then try to repair with each imp tool. every failed improve is a failed repair and the chain stops when it finds the right one to improve with. Then it will repair. Seems like cheating? Enki said otherwise.

Enki:

Quote

Badget's example and understanding is correct though.  As long as you are manually pressing a button to initiate each set of non delayed actions that go into your action queue it is correct.

and btw, I did press the buttons manually and each action was non delayed. There was no sleep or loop. It was the fact that my macro KNEW which one to choose, and them imped, that made it "illegitimate." rather than testing out every option nearly instantly to imp.

I'm confused too, don't worry. Enki also stated that:

Quote

Yiraia As far as this relates to Wurm Online, Your system would be considered automating a conditional selection that we do not provide as a function of the game.  Therefore it would be a macro and as such against the rules.

And that is weird because I'm pretty sure improving a floor loom (or any impable item that you cant hold in your inventory) without the need to look at chat with the click of 1 button is NOT a feature in wurm. I'm just here hoping I didn't read everything incorrectly, because it still does not make total sense to me either.

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24 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

one simply didnt spam chat. 

 

24 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

It was the fact that my macro KNEW which one to choose

"automates the sending of actions" you've automated the selection of tools, i'm not sure why that's so confusing for you. If your script searches for images or text and changes what it does based on that then it's not allowed, you can only use macros that blind fire a set of keys.

31 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

This macro is only useful for a person with 50+ mind logic though

Get 50 mind logic then.

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3 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

"automates the sending of actions" you've automated the selection of tools, i'm not sure why that's so confusing for you. If your script searches for images or text and changes what it does based on that then it's not allowed, you can only use macros that blind fire a set of keys.

It has the same end result, Thats what makes it confusing on what its against the rules. My macro searched for a picture, the other macro searched for the correct tool. One was simply more primitive

3 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Get 50 mind logic then.

I hope you have a higher attention span than that. I stated directly after that a fix for said macro. No joke.. right after that period is the fix XD, 1ir2ir3ir4ir5ir. Now im really confused on how a person can stop reading mid paragraph. But im a rather dumb person, so I'll accept that.

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On 1/7/2018 at 3:52 PM, Wimblonian said:

Well it's basically considered a macro. If you are away from your keyboard or not present in the game while doing actions, it's against the rules.  Staff members will PM people sometimes and give them a time-frame in which they need to respond, and if they don't. Well... It won't be a good consequence I'd say.

What if you have a very socially inept player who has no interest in talking to anybody in the game? Do they get punished for not answering a Staff members private message? I don't think it works that way

 

Edit: apparently it does work this way, although its relatively uneasy to enforce.

Edited by Goblinking

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9 hours ago, Goblinking said:

What if you have a very socially inept player who has no interest in talking to anybody in the game? Do they get punished for not answering a Staff members private message? I don't think it works that way

Never seen it myself, but i heard there is a pop-up.

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Automating it further than 1 key = 1 action seems fishy to me unless keybind system got some sort of an update.

If you think that making a smart looping macro doing the ring action isnt cheating, that's another flaw.

Also I only noticed how enki explained the 'same' about keybinds and queue ingame, no 3rd party is allowed, being software or hw macros.

Smart macros are still macros, point is to have people verse people, not bots. /I hope/

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