Make transfers from Freedom to Epic one-time only

[Wilczan 2,048]

Now, people from Epic sit all the time on Freedom to grind skills, instead of playing Epic.

 

Epic population is suffering badly couse of this. First, old players are missing, second, new players came to server, see that none is around and leave.

 

One-time only transfer would make them choose, if they want to go back to Epic or invest their time in Freedom.

 

I know that skilling on Epic should be fixed first, but even after that, transfers should be one-way only.

 

In current state, Epic is a dumpster, where you could go (MAYBE) to get some pvp, but what's the point when you can skill on freedom (in safety) and just pvp on Chaos?

[MrGARY 12,421]

Would just make it go back to the way it was before aka no change, because epic players already had given up on epic and were buying accounts/grinding on freedom/chaos instead

You already can skill in safety on epic, especially the home servers and with the low pop

 

I'd rather get my skills on a permanent/persistent cluster that matters than get skills on a challenge cluster that has <20 people total playing.  If we remove the option to continually merge to epic people will still prefer the freedom cluster over epic.  It's a necessary evil imo to keep the option of having freedomers come over, just a shame the skilling system changed to something not popular which blocked the ability to transfer epic skills to freedom continually, which I'd say is the real problem here...

[Wilczan 2,048]

/paranoia mode

 

Sometimes I think it was planned to just close Epic that way, softly moving most of players out of it.

 

/paranoia mode off

[orsin 6]

in my opinion.

I say permanent both way transfers.

it would give freedom players a skill bonus of 3x to get back to the skill they got while on epic when they go back to freedom.

it would be a good way to get an experience boost. on top of the sleep bonus they already give you for the transfer.

I also think scenario items along with affinities should transfer as well.

yes that does mean freedom player will come to epec so they can farm those items/affinities but that means more players on epec.

unless this was intended to actually remove epic all together.

[Wargasm 1,927]

Are there more than 3 people playing on the epic cluster at a time now?  Then how is Epic "suffering"?  

 

Epic isn't suffering because of freedom skills.  Epic is suffering because the Elevation map SUCKS.

[Bettle 28]

Epic was dead, is dead and will always remain dead. 

 

The real pvp server of this game is Chaos and no one can change it. 

 

Also freedom and chaos connection is the thing keeping this game alive. As people can enjoy both pvp and pve aspect of game this way easily.

[Sjarn 81]

Epic is still great fun for newer Players.  And it's a good way to get into the game and meet some other pvp folks, and there's lots to do as you hone your fighting skills.

 

Even with folks temporarily moving over to Freedom servers to improve skills, the actual population of Epic and Chaos has been pretty much even over the past little while.  In fact, looking at the last 24 hours, Epic was a little higher - at least according to Niarja (though I'm never sure how accurate those stats are).  I'll be honest - I haven't spent any time on Chaos, or on Freedom in general, but everything I've read indicates that starting on Epic still is a little easier/faster, over being ready to fight on Chaos.

 

That said, Wilczan is right, with people off skilling-up on Freedom, we are down in numbers since the changes and that does hurt the community and affects our ability to plan events or hunts.

[Jaz 2,665]

Epic is great for the Freedom guys like me who do not want to do all the skilling again. What we need is periodic (although I hope a skill convert function can be mathed out) skill transfer from Epic to Freedom. The current situation really pushes grinders to Freedom making everyday life on Epic more boring. Yes I went there for the thrill and now more or less those are another PVE servers with lockpicking enabled....

[permo 1,263]

They need to somehow come up with a solution so grinding on Epic transfers over to freedom. I understand that it is hard maths, especially after the skilling changes now when the clusters differs even more, but to have it as it is now... It's just stupid. Playing on one cluster gives you skills on both while playing on the other only gives you skills on that? Why would anyone live on Epic when freedom gives access to both?

 

I can see this work tho, if they turn epic to a server that is just there for specific pvp events with set times and planned out motivations to join. So that is another option, if they cant solve continuous transfers.

Edited December 19, 2017 by permo

[BrokenSanity 717]

Where there's a will, there's a way. If they could come up with a method of having two way skill transfers, Epic would gain a lot of life back again.

 

Is it really so bad if Epic became a server with slightly faster skillgain that Freedomers could grind on? Perhaps the added risk of pvp/being raided would balance that out?

 

E.g. sure, you could grind on Epic, but you also have to make sure that the deed you grind on is well defended enough to protect you and your facilities. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by BrokenSanity

[Grumpysmith 135]

Sadly, I can see no reason why any new player would or should choose to start playing on Epic.  According to the dev's, the transfer from Epic to Freedom was a one time deal based on the characters and their skills on that date which is now in the past.  Which means that no new player, who starts on Epic, will be able to transfer their skills in the future to Freedom.  For a fun thing to do, with no real consequences, jumping from Freedom to Epic will be great for Freedom players particularly new players, and for old players who want to test their metal against No Gumps and the other Valrie creatures not found on Freedom.

 

For myself, I've started a small deed on Freedom where I will grind body stats on my characters for the time being.  I still go to Affliction when possible to help out.  But I've stopped working on my deed there as there is no point for it now.  As far as whether or not the transfer should be both ways all the time or a one time shot deal either way, I'd have to say make it a one time shot.  Turn off continuous transfer of skills, I'll go back to my home on Affliction.

[Odynn 2,248]

15 hours ago, orsin said:

it would give freedom players a skill bonus of 3x to get back to the skill they got while on epic when they go back to freedom.

it would be a good way to get an experience boost. on top of the sleep bonus they already give you for the transfer.

I also think scenario items along with affinities should transfer as well.

yes that does mean freedom player will come to epic so they can farm those items/affinities but that means more players on epic.

 

this, just this, making freedom to epic a one time thing will definitively kill the interest for the few of us who moved from freedom to epic for the pvp side.

there is currently no real incentive on epic to do anything that is not the hota ... and that's the biggest failure of the whole thing. The pop is low, the new scenario reward is bad, the faster timers are not that fast when it comes to improving gear to PvP... and the skillgain here feels like a waste of time... knowing it's poorly balanced and you can get bigger ticks/better gains on freedom than epic.

 

A boost on those skills when you are back on freedom would be a huge plus.

 

A transfer of the hota (and probably others pvp) related titles would be nice as well

 

scenario rewards would certainly be a true incentive to be active on epic and take part in the stupidly hard (for the current pop) missions... affinities are borderline imho, would probably get more pvp but the way they would transfer might/could probably be abused if not done properly.

[Sjarn 81]

14 hours ago, BrokenSanity said:

E.g. sure, you could grind on Epic, but you also have to make sure that the deed you grind on is well defended enough to protect you and your facilities. 

 

I know many of us with Epic deeds would welcome Freedom players who wanted to make it a temporary/occasional base from which to operate in as much safety as the server allows.  And if the time zones match, we could organize more elaborate hunts and events.

[MrGARY 12,421]

Revert epic skills back to what they were at the snapshot prior to update, give a x3 back to any current skills from the new skill system.  Then use the formula for the skill nerf always to continuallly merge epic to freedom, allowing the ability to grind on both clusters.  Can leave the faster timers as is, since skillgain is still the same time vs time, wouldn't be as ideal, but the current setup is far less than ideal.  Unnerf fs as it was nerfed for no reason, then can properly link fs 100% between clusters giving another reason to try out pvp

 

but what do i know xd

[rixk 830]

There is not a single reason, why to keep 2 pvp environments alive.. Especially when it means dividing already small playerbase(PvPers). It is the similar situation as with WU vs WO. They both share the same playerbase.. growing one is mostly at the expense of the other. Currently we can see, that all the effort that went into reviving Epic was wasted time.. Like someone already said, Epic is dead.. The sooner you accept it the better. Trying to come up with shinier and shinier rewards for freedomers just for logging on to epic doesn't solve anything.

[Sjarn 81]

17 minutes ago, rixk said:

There is not a single reason, why to keep 2 pvp environments alive

 

I don't know.  I think Epic is much more approachable for new Players than Chaos.  You can pick a kingdom that suits you, sign on, make some friends, and get into the game fairly quickly.  And looking at the population stats, it doesn't look the population of Chaos is that much bigger these days. 

 

I'm not saying there isn't a way to better organize players and servers so that, especially the high-end pvp, is maybe a little better distributed across the available servers.  But Epic is not dead.  And simply turning off Epic and asking folks to move to Chaos isn't necessarily going to magically double the number of players on Chaos.  It's just as likely to halve the overall number of pvp Players in Wurm.

 

 

[Roccandil 959]

57 minutes ago, Sjarn said:

 

I don't know.  I think Epic is much more approachable for new Players than Chaos.  You can pick a kingdom that suits you, sign on, make some friends, and get into the game fairly quickly.  And looking at the population stats, it doesn't look the population of Chaos is that much bigger these days. 

 

I'm not saying there isn't a way to better organize players and servers so that, especially the high-end pvp, is maybe a little better distributed across the available servers.  But Epic is not dead.  And simply turning off Epic and asking folks to move to Chaos isn't necessarily going to magically double the number of players on Chaos.  It's just as likely to halve the overall number of pvp Players in Wurm.

 

 

 

I agree. I'm not interested in Freedom, so if Epic were turned off, I would probably look for another game.

 

As it is, I find myself attached to the island of Serenity itself; it's home. I do like the fact that PvP is possible, and that somewhere is a distant HOTA that I might one day aspire to join. But I don't want PvP for the sake of PvP; I want PvP that makes sense in the context of kingdoms and the world itself (if that makes sense).

[rixk 830]

44 minutes ago, Sjarn said:

 

I don't know.  I think Epic is much more approachable for new Players than Chaos.  You can pick a kingdom that suits you, sign on, make some friends, and get into the game fairly quickly.  And looking at the population stats, it doesn't look the population of Chaos is that much bigger these days. 

 

I'm not saying there isn't a way to better organize players and servers so that, especially the high-end pvp, is maybe a little better distributed across the available servers.  But Epic is not dead.  And simply turning off Epic and asking folks to move to Chaos isn't necessarily going to magically double the number of players on Chaos.  It's just as likely to halve the overall number of pvp Players in Wurm.

 

 

Yeah, well.. technically it doesn't matter, which PvP environment should be removed. It could very well be also Chaos. The goal simply should be to try to consolidate pvp-ers into one cluster.. Why I have been talking about Epic always, is simply, that players have made their own choice already.. Epic players moved to Chaos, not vice versa..  The recent attempt to kickstart Epic simply failed hard. Also Chaos has a strong PvE playerbase behind them. Many players, who join the game on freedom PvE side, sooner or later go and try out Chaos life.

[Roccandil 959]

13 minutes ago, rixk said:

Yeah, well.. technically it doesn't matter, which PvP environment should be removed. It could very well be also Chaos. The goal simply should be to try to consolidate pvp-ers into one cluster.. Why I have been talking about Epic always, is simply, that players have made their own choice already.. Epic players moved to Chaos, not vice versa..  The recent attempt to kickstart Epic simply failed hard. Also Chaos has a strong PvE playerbase behind them. Many players, who join the game on freedom PvE side, sooner or later go and try out Chaos life.

 

For me, the idea of the invincible fortress of Freedom from which anyone can build up and then project power to Chaos is a bummer. At least in the case of Epic, only stat/skills come over from Freedom.

[Yiraia 427]

33 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

For me, the idea of the invincible fortress of Freedom from which anyone can build up and then project power to Chaos is a bummer. At least in the case of Epic, only stat/skills come over from Freedom.

Stats and skills take up the majority of the time for wurm. Getting the stuff is quick after that.

[Roccandil 959]

30 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Stats and skills take up the majority of the time for wurm. Getting the stuff is quick after that.

 

Things like moonmetal/drake/scale/bones/tomes? Freedom is a huge source of those powerful items, and I'm very glad they can't be transferred from Freedom to Epic.

 

At any rate, Freedom is so optimized for PvE play that any PvP feels tacked on to me (unlike, say, EVE Online). If Wurm were all about PVP, and the PVE-only areas were simply for newbie-protection, it would be different.

 

Epic seems to be the developer's solution to providing a PVP-centric world, but clearly, the existing Wurm population is too small, too fragmented, and too invested in other servers to truly support Epic.

 

In my view, then, the Freedom transfer to Epic is a last-ditch developer attempt to prop up the Epic population. But the real problem is the lack of new players.

 

If it were me, I'd convert Chaos to PvE, and make Epic the only PvP around (but then I have no stake in Chaos, and I know I wouldn't like the converse, if the developers made Epic PvE and pulled the islands into Freedom).

 

Again, though, that only attempts to fix population fragmentation, and maybe reduce confusion for new players on where to go for PvP. But, if we had lots of new players signing up for Epic and Freedom, this wouldn't be an issue at all, and we wouldn't have needed the Freedom transfer in the first place.

[BrokenSanity 717]

4 hours ago, MrGARY said:

Revert epic skills back to what they were at the snapshot prior to update, give a x3 back to any current skills from the new skill system.  Then use the formula for the skill nerf always to continuallly merge epic to freedom, allowing the ability to grind on both clusters.  Can leave the faster timers as is, since skillgain is still the same time vs time, wouldn't be as ideal, but the current setup is far less than ideal.  Unnerf fs as it was nerfed for no reason, then can properly link fs 100% between clusters giving another reason to try out pvp

 

but what do i know xd

I might have missed something here, but what would be the purpose of reverting the Epic skills back to the snapshot if you're going to keep the new faster timers?

 

Is your suggestion that the entire new skill system be abandoned, apart from the faster timers?

[MrGARY 12,421]

4 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

I might have missed something here, but what would be the purpose of reverting the Epic skills back to the snapshot if you're going to keep the new faster timers?

 

Is your suggestion that the entire new skill system be abandoned, apart from the faster timers?

 

the faster timers don't really have anything to do with the wu/challenge skill system.  the skill system swap is what blocks ever merging epic to freedom again, so revert that to allow merging, and keep the fast timers to try to help promote it being a quicker cluster

[BrokenSanity 717]

4 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

the faster timers don't really have anything to do with the wu/challenge skill system.  the skill system swap is what blocks ever merging epic to freedom again, so revert that to allow merging, and keep the fast timers to try to help promote it being a quicker cluster

I'd agree with that for sure.

 

One issue with the skill revert though: I know for sure there's a fair few newer players that didn't start playing until after the snapshot. I'd imagine asking them to start again from scratch is pretty much a guarantee that they'll quit the game (even with the x3 skillgain). 

Edited December 20, 2017 by BrokenSanity

[Nappy 1,369]

2 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

the faster timers don't really have anything to do with the wu/challenge skill system.  the skill system swap is what blocks ever merging epic to freedom again, so revert that to allow merging, and keep the fast timers to try to help promote it being a quicker cluster

The only problem with it is despite popular belief there are players, on epic full time, who are building skills up and in some cases quite significantly since the merger.

 

I wish there would be some clarity around future plans here because I've now started building a deed on Elevation. If the map now gets replaced well it would have been nice to know that before the building started.