Vomusu

WTS Wurm University PMK wagons, tents, flags, banners

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The sell of kingdom banners are used to fund deed upkeeps and other pvp related expenses. Buying designs from a kingdom that is not disbanded comes with the understanding that Saroman may approve changes to the desgins at a later time. Kingdoms cant be expected to shell out a countless amount of silver back to the players who purchase pmk products and are later dissatisfied by the change.

 

There is a reason why dead pmk decorations are much more expensive. 

 

If you are dissatisfied by the kingdom design change, you are welcome to recover your money by selling the item forward. Understand pmks are not a business and they don't hold countless money in escrow to guarantee purchases or issue refunds. It is very likely that to refund you, kingdom leaders would have to dig into their personal wallets to pay you back. That's unreasonable. We are all players just like you.

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I understand that completely which is why I was polite enough to ask if they would consider it and the only reason I asked is coz it happened recently. If they said no I would have made my peace with it and tried to sell it off via trade chat. If you don't ask you won't know, and I am glad I asked coz someone did reach out to me and offered to take the tent from me for the original price that I paid. Whether it was someone from WU I don't know but I am grateful for whoever it was :) 

Wurm has a mostly respectful community and with the service I received from WU I find them respectful as well. 

You have my thanks for being really cool guys WU !!! 

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8 minutes ago, Farmboy102 said:

I understand that completely which is why I was polite enough to ask if they would consider it and the only reason I asked is coz it happened recently. If they said no I would have made my peace with it and tried to sell it off via trade chat. If you don't ask you won't know, and I am glad I asked coz someone did reach out to me and offered to take the tent from me for the original price that I paid. Whether it was someone from WU I don't know but I am grateful for whoever it was :) 

Wurm has a mostly respectful community and with the service I received from WU I find them respectful as well. 

You have my thanks for being really cool guys WU !!! 

I am happy it worked out for you. Good luck and safe Wurming!

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I wonder - having seen the controverse and discussion in both Freedom and GL-Freedom - if it hadn't been a better idea if the players would have been informed in this thread or another about the (at the time) upcoming change.

 

That way the surprise wouldn't have been that hard for the owners of WU items, no matter if they like the change or not.

I got the feeling that most of the harsh comments I have seen in the past hours weren't because of the change, but more because the change was done without a warning and into something not everybody likes.

 

I do understand a PMK got the right to do so, however, I wonder if that PMK also has realized that when doing such a sudden change, they may actually loose a part of their customers?? Because right now most of what I've seen is only negative about the recent change. And I doubt that was the intention. Was it?

 

Thorin :)

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2 hours ago, Thorinoakshield said:

Because right now most of what I've seen is only negative about the recent change

the unhappiest people are the loudest. people that like the change just enjoy the new stuff and continue doing whatever they were doing.

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8 hours ago, Thorinoakshield said:

I wonder - having seen the controverse and discussion in both Freedom and GL-Freedom - if it hadn't been a better idea if the players would have been informed in this thread or another about the (at the time) upcoming change.

 

That way the surprise wouldn't have been that hard for the owners of WU items, no matter if they like the change or not.

I got the feeling that most of the harsh comments I have seen in the past hours weren't because of the change, but more because the change was done without a warning and into something not everybody likes.

 

I do understand a PMK got the right to do so, however, I wonder if that PMK also has realized that when doing such a sudden change, they may actually loose a part of their customers?? Because right now most of what I've seen is only negative about the recent change. And I doubt that was the intention. Was it?

 

Thorin :)

At the risk of sounding rude, I am going to reply to your post here, friend. Please don't take it personal, I just have to clarify my initial post which seems to be a little unclear.

 

This shop is not a business. Its a means for us to provide to the player community with PMK items which are often sought after by the PVE community to decorate their deeds while at the same time seeking supplemental funds to help alleviate the expenses of running a kingdom. Its a mutually beneficial transaction between two players. Once that transaction is done with, our business is concluded. 

 

The loyalty of the kingdom is to its members, not the PVE community. We are a PVP kingdom on the Wild Cluster, and the decisions relating our kingdom are a matter of internal policy. No kingdom needs to or is expected to discuss decisions with the Freedom population before implementing it, nor is there a need to make any announcement to "appese" the customer base. Why? Because we are not here to make wagons, banners and flags. We are here to pvp. The decision was made after discussing it with members to change the art and it was submitted to Saroman. It was subsequently approved and uploaded into the game. That is that. It is not the first time a pmk changes its artwork, nor will it be the last.

 

There will be no refunds to players for the changes to the art on our pmk items. The reason why is because we have no way to truly track how our pmk items got to to you as a customer. If we started issuing refunds, we'd potentially be paying for kingdom items we never sold, as former and current members can make kingdom items on their own and pass them on without our knowledge. Even if the transaction was recent and could be verified, those funds are likely spent already, used in kingdom matters such as funding deeds and buying materials or gear. The only recourse players that are dissatisfied with the change have is to sell the item to other players as it is their right. We apoligize for any inconvenience the change has caused you, but the members of the kingdom choose their new art. Utimately, their opinon is the one taken into consideration as Wurm University members are the ones who wear the tabard.

 

Hopefully this was clear enough to explain our position in the matter. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to any of our leadership. From now on, please stick to the purpose of the thread. Discussions regarding the changes in kingdom art are not the purview of a Merchant thread.

 

Thank you for your patronage and we'll see you in game.

 

 

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The problem is when what you are selling to earn kingdom funds turns out to be a pig in a poke. While I may be delighted to find I'm the new owner of a kitty, I'd still be lacking a pig to fatten up for winter, and suffering from violent allergies.

 

Even now, as of this post it is still the original gold/beige/whatever you see it as items being advertised in the first post. I get that only Vom can edit that, but no mention was made, no warning anywhere I can find to let people know their belongings would change so drastically. Doing so would have allowed those who found the new design really not to their taste to sell on or learn to live with the new look whilst drumming up new business from those excited by purpleness and stopping people like me bitching about it at every available opportunity. You know, common courtesy.

 

I get that pmk stuff can change at any time, and I'm glad you have the new look you want, but a simple heads up would have avoided a lot of the complaints.

 

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Angelklaine, since you don't understand common English, I make it easy for you:

 

1) I don't give a ###### about refunds.

2) In my post I never asked for a refund;

3) In fact, I even have never mentioned REFUND in my post

4) If you want to change the template of your items, go ahead

5) If you do that without informing your buyers; expect a shitstorm like you got now

 

6) If the Dev-team PROPOSE a change to how PvP is going to be played, you - and many other PvP players - usually comment at it that changes shouldn't be done without consulting the PvP community, that the current changed would kill the PvP community etc.

Yet, as the same time, you're arrogant enough to tell us, YOUR CUSTOMERS!!! to either accept the change to the PMK items or get rid of the items if we don't want them.

 

Tell me, if you as a player got WU PMK items, started the game after the update and saw that during  that update the line "Adjusting new WU PMK template" passes your screen; first thing you do is wondering what is going on.

Then when you see what the template is like, you head over the forum to see if you perhaps missed any anouncement of WU, telling their buyers the template has changed.

 

However, NON OF THAT happened. NONE!!

In fact, the wording you use sounds bloody arrogant to me. You're basically telling your customers to shove off, because the only reason we're here is to support your PMK by buying your items.

 

Has it EVER occured to you there are also players in  this game who like to collect the PMK items because they like the design? Has it also occured to you that because of YOUR arrogance, new buyers may reconsider buying WU items, simply because they (WU) change things without informing the public; being the public the potential buyers or the ones who already had items.

 

Has it EVER occured to you there may be players who right now don't want to buy WU items anymore, because, hey, before you know it, they change their template to a shitty-brown colour with a big turd at it and they won't tell us.

 

The WHOLE point of my previous post was to wonder why NO-ONE of WU even bothered to tell their customers about an upcoming change of template.

 

You basically gave me - as well as others - the answer, which is:

 

"Because we give ###### about our customers. As long as you buy our stuff, we can do what we like."

 

And because of that, I expect dropping sales in WU items, as you just lost the trust the players have in WU.

Thank you!

 

Thorin :)

 

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I guess you need this kind of public relations when you can't logistically support so many sales 😋 🙃

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Just make PMK items not changeable = problems solved

Edited by shamflam

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I can understand why people might be upset by the sudden change of the design. I can partially take the blame for it since I manage this WTS thread.

The thing is we werent really sure when the new designs are gonna be ingame, we only knew that its gonna happen and I was told it might take a lot of time, even months. I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused by that but due to us not knowing when it's gonna change we weren't able to inform the people properly. Also im dealing with a lot of stuff IRL now so I'm not that focused on Wurm these days, since I need to focus on finishing my university.

The designs were changed because we didnt really like the old ones. The people that made the original template are long gone, and don't play anymore. We inherited this kingdom, and from the beginning we wanted to change the design, so we can make it feel like "our" kingdom. I understand that a lot of people who play this game liked the old design for the esthetics, but sadly we couldnt make it so the old design will stay ingame, it had to be swapped with the new one.

I just hope we don't lose people's trust just by changing the design. I dont fully agree with all the posts made above, but it's too late now, what has been said, cannot be taken back.

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Those designs were pretty good. I hope it is possible for some new kingdom to pickup those designs and use them or make something similar.

Edited by Maiev

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36 minutes ago, Maiev said:

Those designs were pretty good. I hope it is possible for some new kingdom to pickup those designs and use them or make something similar.

Generally the issue with this is the art. The art belongs to its creator and without their express permissions it cannot be used. Plus, most kingdoms generally like to use their own art. Its part of what makes them unique. After all no one will spend a gold on a pmk only to be the laughing stock of Chaos for using another pmk's previous art.

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I guess it is only likely if the original designer is part of a new kingdom and they decide to use those then. 

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3 hours ago, shamflam said:

Just make PMK items not changeable = problems solved

Should be a thing, but it also raises possible abuse PMKs would just change art every few months, which isn't exactly fair.

 

What should happen is the art should be interchangeable on individual items if there was a previous version of the kingdom art - with a right click menu "change art" 

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2 hours ago, Niki said:

Should be a thing, but it also raises possible abuse PMKs would just change art every few months, which isn't exactly fair.

 

What should happen is the art should be interchangeable on individual items if there was a previous version of the kingdom art - with a right click menu "change art" 

 

Do you have any idea what this would do to the game, and its pack files?

 

While we're on the subject of abuse cases, let's talk about a kingdom that decided to do what you've mentioned and update their art every 3 or 4 months. After 2 years one single kingdom could generate a very significant amount of pack data in the form of images, which EVERY client must then download and store.

You are not looking at the full picture here.

 

EDIT: It's already possible on Wurm Unlimited to create so many PMK's with their own textures that the game crashes on load, because neither the client nor hardware it is running on can allocate enough memory to even load the textures for the immediate environment into memory. I will admit that this number is abundantly high and would probably never be reached through legitimate implementations, but the possibility is there. And doing what you are talking about would only bring that inevitability closer to reality.

 

I don't know about anyone else but I like my Wurm install folder to be less than 2 or 3 gigabytes in size. Makes it easier to move around, manage and search log files, screenshots, etc.

Edited by whereami

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I understand there's a discussion about the PMK designs but lets not forget this is a merchant thread. There are more appropriate threads to post about that.
 

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11 hours ago, Vomusu said:

I can understand why people might be upset by the sudden change of the design. I can partially take the blame for it since I manage this WTS thread.

The thing is we werent really sure when the new designs are gonna be ingame, we only knew that its gonna happen and I was told it might take a lot of time, even months. I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused by that but due to us not knowing when it's gonna change we weren't able to inform the people properly. Also im dealing with a lot of stuff IRL now so I'm not that focused on Wurm these days, since I need to focus on finishing my university.

The designs were changed because we didnt really like the old ones. The people that made the original template are long gone, and don't play anymore. We inherited this kingdom, and from the beginning we wanted to change the design, so we can make it feel like "our" kingdom. I understand that a lot of people who play this game liked the old design for the esthetics, but sadly we couldnt make it so the old design will stay ingame, it had to be swapped with the new one.

I just hope we don't lose people's trust just by changing the design. I dont fully agree with all the posts made above, but it's too late now, what has been said, cannot be taken back.

 

Are you suggesting that any buyer should first ask if you are planning to change the art?  This should have been announced the moment you started thinking about making changes--i.e. at least two years ago it sounds like. If you knew you wanted/planned to change the design, you should have told people such before each and every sale of new items.

 

So, to keep this on topic, WU please advise if any further known/planned/thinking about it, but unannounced changes are in the works to the items that you are selling. 

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