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Aegis55

Discussion: Is fatigue system here to force multi account usage

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What does that have to do with this discussion?

 

You think all those people running into this problem is because they are living in a Chinese prision farming gold for the warden and work wurm accounts in shifts?:

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I have played Wurm for 10+ years and never once hit fatigue. I was actually surprised when a friend mentioned that they were having problems with this *fatigue* system that I knew nothing about. I guess I never hit it because I liked to have several premium accounts in order to play on different servers with different deeds.

 

But guess what! I still think that this "fatigue" system is totally unacceptable and should be removed from the game because it prevents players from playing the game that they are *paying* to play. If there is this restriction from the amount you can play per the time you have paid to play the game, this "fatigue" restriction should be explained in detail since if a player hits it they can no longer play the game to the full extent that they have paid to play it. Pretty simple to understand this really and yet it is shrugged off as of no consequence by whoever setup and perpetuates this "fatigue" system to this very day.

 

In the end I will continue to play the game and be unaffected by this system; however, some players are not really getting what they have paid for and there is no *fine print* to read beforehand to find out that this is the situation. Why it (fatigue) is thought to be a good idea I have no idea since whoever can explain why this system is worthwhile has not taken the time nor concern to do so. It really seems unjustifiable on any basis since players will not get the playtime that they have paid for once under the influence of "fatigue". Sounds like an unhealthy condition to me. The cure is worse than the disease...

 

=Ayes=

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So can we get this removed soon? I just started a grind and I expect to have trouble with this for a bit >.>

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Got another stupid idea, for in this game most things are tradeable, why not make the possiblity that premium players sell there fatigue.

That would somehow adhere to the argument that it calms down the advantage of people playing accounts intensive and giving those playing less

the opportunity to earn few coppers with there non spent gametime.

Perhaps only possible with a priest having a "Transfer Fatigue" spell.

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3 hours ago, Ayes said:

I have played Wurm for 10+ years and never once hit fatigue. I was actually surprised when a friend mentioned that they were having problems with this *fatigue* system that I knew nothing about. I guess I never hit it because I liked to have several premium accounts in order to play on different servers with different deeds.

 

But guess what! I still think that this "fatigue" system is totally unacceptable and should be removed from the game because it prevents players from playing the game that they are *paying* to play. If there is this restriction from the amount you can play per the time you have paid to play the game, this "fatigue" restriction should be explained in detail since if a player hits it they can no longer play the game to the full extent that they have paid to play it. Pretty simple to understand this really and yet it is shrugged off as of no consequence by whoever setup and perpetuates this "fatigue" system to this very day.

 

In the end I will continue to play the game and be unaffected by this system; however, some players are not really getting what they have paid for and there is no *fine print* to read beforehand to find out that this is the situation. Why it (fatigue) is thought to be a good idea I have no idea since whoever can explain why this system is worthwhile has not taken the time nor concern to do so. It really seems unjustifiable on any basis since players will not get the playtime that they have paid for once under the influence of "fatigue". Sounds like an unhealthy condition to me. The cure is worse than the disease...

 

=Ayes=

 

Good points all around, well said Ayes. I agree... Remove the Fatigue system and replace it with another system to combat Botting (as if somehow the game isn't already designed to encourage it but for the sake of the discussion there we go)

Edited by Kyrmius
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On 2017/12/14 at 2:17 AM, JakeRivers said:

What does that have to do with this discussion?

 

You think all those people running into this problem is because they are living in a Chinese prision farming gold for the warden and work wurm accounts in shifts?:

 

OH you got me. I am going back to my prison cell and shifting my current wurm account to next prisoner now... See you tomorrow. LOL. 

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it's not the fatigue system that promotes multi accounts. It's that priests can't improve.

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1 hour ago, Aetherion said:

it's not the fatigue system that promotes multi accounts. It's that priests can't improve.

And that a toon can only hold one deed per server.

And care for a limited amount of animals.

Edited by Cecci
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2 minutes ago, Cecci said:

And that a toon can only hold one deed per server.

You got too many deeds, Cecci!

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8 hours ago, Wonka said:

let it die, folks...

 

Naw, we are not *fatigued* of the topic yet...

 

=Ayes=

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@Aegis55Your title is hilarious...

 

I like the fatigue system, there's more good than bad coming from it, however you look at it when you measure the pros and cons. Or at least that's my humble opinion. 

 

On average... the average player won't ever see the wall, you hit it and than kept bumping into it for entertainment?

 

Took me 1 bump into the fatigue wall to see that I was spending way too much time doing something wrong(shipbuilding at LOW skill). Than I eventually hit the same wall maybe two more times for a year, only when I was spending unhealthy amount of time to get a certain number higher. 

 

Learn to pace your work, rather than dominating the market in any way, play the game with other people, you don't have to do all by yourself, and certainly, do take some breaks from time to time.

 

p.s. FYI codeclub is one of the few companies that aren't pay2win scam&gain customers for money, game is slightly pay to win, but the winner there is in the community as the items boosting your 'power' aren't sold in the cashshop, but other players.

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30 minutes ago, Finnn said:

game is slightly pay to win,

 

No Finn....  Wurm is about 80% pay to "win" (drop a large sum of money and get a high level character as well as dragon armour, game "won").

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And how have you "won" by having  a scale set and a good account on day 1?

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9 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

And how have you "won" by having  a scale set and a good account on day 1?

 

Pretty much depends on how you define "win" really.  Though, generally, by using the phrase "pay to win" one is indicating that a player can use real world income to purchase an ingame advantage to other players who do not invest real world income.

 

That pretty much defines wurm.

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Fatigue and the priesthood are both instruments to force players to play (and pay) for multiple accounts.  There is no other reason for the restrictions.

 

I am one of those players who remembers when one account was 5 euro a month.  Back then, land was way too expensive but characters were fairly cheap.  Over time, the price of land went down but the price of accounts went way up.  I firmly believe the cost to play Wurm really keeps Wurm Online's population down even though things like fatigue and single-toon price is meant to increase revenue.  When WU came out, that only made things worse for Wurm Online because now you can play for free on non-official servers.  One of the main reasons Wurm Online still has a population, imho, is because Wurm Unlimited worlds are subject to devs who create worlds and then abandon them, and thus, players have no assurance of longevity.  Only a few servers have the appearance of being around for years to come - and guess what - they have sustained populations.  Another reason Wurm Online still has a population is because most of us dread the thought of ever losing our "investment" into this marvelous game. I know I have literally dumped thousands of dollars into Wurm Online in the last 8 years.

 

I said all that to say this, there are some things that could be done to increase revenues without enforcing playtime (fatigue) restrictions and other (priesthood) limitations.

 

1.  Advertise.

2.  A Patreon account for our awesome dev team.

3.  Advertise... oh, I said that already.

4.  Add some creative incentives to the Wurm Shop that doesnt break game balance - like offering all past Christmas gifts purchasable via the Wurm Shop.

5.  Offer discounts to subscriptions from time to time.

6.  Oh, and I almost forgot......  advertise.

 

Cheers.

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6 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

Pretty much depends on how you define "win" really.  

 

Yes, which was my veiled question to you.  How have you "won" by purchasing a scale set and a 3 year old + account?  Because you can accomplish some tasks (like building a knarr) faster?  Because you can kill a troll 10 seconds faster?  

 

I don't consider Wurm a pay to win game.  It's pay to play, sure.... but not pay to win.

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44 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

No Finn....  Wurm is about 80% pay to "win" (drop a large sum of money and get a high level character as well as dragon armour, game "won").

And who gives a .... about 'you' than? It's money convertion, no skill.

 

What I meant were sleep bonus potions and casted gear. Reselling of chars is something that does not exist for me, as I do not play to be on top or would never buy a char in some chart to compensate for anything IRL.

Edited by Finnn
typo

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

I like the fatigue system, there's more good than bad

 

List one good thing that comes out of this? Then provide proof that these good things come out of this.

 

Remember the bad thing is a person has to quit playing the game the way they like to play for days on end.

Edited by JakeRivers

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"Your frustration" for example, we've had this discussion. 

I am a fan of old Rolf solutions for various mechanics, doing 1main thing and adding 1 or more 'passive' mechanics and limits preventing abuse.

(you want example? the way you spam-created  trellises as 'you dont have much use for it's production', but you still made thousands of them as they were so flawed at the start before patching)

That is one thing I hate about certain individuals **using mechanics instead submitting concerns to the devs instantly.

What good does your wealth worth if anybody could bulk create the same and toss it on the market for cheap?

 

It's one-man opinion, I don't have to prove anything to you, you're just hardheaded about this topic and will reject and ignore every argument again. Just like the topic in town hall few months back.

 

It's a result of certain playstyle which is not normal, majority of players do not even know about fatigue or what 'you feel rested' text in event log means. 

Explains a lot, doesn't it?

 

Why is somebody turning into a brickfactory queueing actions day by day...

It's not bannable, but breaks are advised and you get the choice to rethink your actions, take a few different roads, explore other aspects of the game or keep blaming a mechanic about your stubbornness to que' 1 more hour every 3 as you go...

Edited by Finnn
typo

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3 hours ago, Finnn said:

"Your frustration" for example, we've had this discussion. 

I am a fan of old Rolf solutions for various mechanics, doing 1main thing and adding 1 or more 'passive' mechanics and limits preventing abuse.

(you want example? the way you spam-created  trellises as 'you dont have much use for it's production', but you still made thousands of them as they were so flawed at the start before patching)

That is one thing I hate about certain individuals **using mechanics instead submitting concerns to the devs instantly.

What good does your wealth worth if anybody could bulk create the same and toss it on the market for cheap?

 

It's one-man opinion, I don't have to prove anything to you, you're just hardheaded about this topic and will reject and ignore every argument again. Just like the topic in town hall few months back.

 

It's a result of certain playstyle which is not normal, majority of players do not even know about fatigue or what 'you feel rested' text in event log means. 

Explains a lot, doesn't it?

 

Why is somebody turning into a brickfactory queueing actions day by day...

It's not bannable, but breaks are advised and you get the choice to rethink your actions, take a few different roads, explore other aspects of the game or keep blaming a mechanic about your stubbornness to que' 1 more hour every 3 as you go...

 

So Zero

 

that is all you have to put forth to how effective the fatigue is.

 

BTW, 700 trellis is nothing to make, once you have 700 hops sprouts that is, super easy now that you can actually pick sprouts off a trellis.

 

Only reason I made that many was I was under the impression it would take more than 1 hops to make a barrel of beer, if you want to crank out beer all you need is a dozen or so of these. (at the time I made them I also didn't know you could harvest more than 1 hops at a time)

 

I have 800 or so hops trellis now, but never bother picking them, not for a year or so anyways.

 

But we get back to play styles, I like taking everything to extremes, you are happy with doing as little as possible, I don't care how you like to play the game and really how I like to play the game is none of your business. This is a sand box, and there really is no place for this 'fatigue' anywhere in the game. If the dev's want to catch the macro cheaters they really should be making greater efforts to catch them and punish them rather than relying on game mechanics to just slow them down which is all this fatigue mechanic does is slow down the macro cheaters.

Edited by JakeRivers
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I'm thinking if fatigue was there to force multi-account usage, it could have been made more stringent.  Think of all the customers who have never hit the wall.

 

There have been many conversations about fatigue, some of which I've already participated in and considering a search would bring all that up, no point rehashing the same old arguments.

 

At this point, I'm just thinking that only Rolf really knows the ultimate reason for fatigue's existence.  I believe it was implemented when he was in charge and essentially making unilateral decisions?

Maybe it is to do with macros, though plenty of the people complaining about hitting the fatigue wall are the first to say it isn't effective in deterring macros.  How they know that, meh.

 

Even in sandbox games, there are rules.  There are rails that the designer can put in place to make his/her vision a reality.

When second stories first came out, people were making very modern looking structures reminiscent of Second Life.  Sandbox, right?  Still, it didn't fit of the over-arching vision, so it was curbed.

 

Fatigue, to me, is the same idea.  The designer has a concept of how to enjoy this game.  Hitting the fatigue wall is part of the rail system that encourages a certain playstyle in keeping with the designer's vision.  Sandbox and all.

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I have never experienced fatigue in Wurm, but I know people who have. In my experience, once they hit the fatigue wall they do not log in another char nor do they get off their deeds to do exploring.  They just log out and wait until they can get back to what they want to work on in the first place. One of them said he feels frustrated when it happens because he feels like he is wasting premium time by having to log out, but I guess if anything, fatigue forces them to get back to real life or perhaps other, faster games? 

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On 12/10/2017 at 10:00 PM, Angelklaine said:

People want it removed. Devs do not. Those in power to change it do not want it changed. End of story. Lets move on.

 

This sentiment is exactly why i refuse to play Warcraft anymore.  When the developers decided to dictate to Me, the Player, how I should be playing, then it's time to move on.

 

Whats next, Oh sorry guys to prevent botting we're only gonna allow 5k actions per play time within a 24 hour period.

 

If this is an anti-botting measure, it is a piss poor one and should be fixed, corrected, an updated realistic measure put in.  

 

 

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On 12/12/2017 at 2:23 AM, Yaga said:
On 12/12/2017 at 2:20 AM, bamv said:

Wurm is what you make of it

 

... within game rules and implemented mechanisms! 

 

Oh now that craps  funny as hell to read.  

 

Fountain pans?

Oh i know, most recently Alt Farming for affinities?

 

Yeah we see how these implemented mechanisms can be changed.

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