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Mclavin

Disable affinity stealing involving freedomers *Updated*

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:00 AM, Bettle said:

If it changes now then people who have already abused the issue have a booost over people who will start this type of things.

 

Like we no longer get better shield skill gains from afk training after changes. So basically people who grinded that skill before some time have edge over new players.

 

Not saying its good thing to kill alt but sometimes making changes harms the new guy like me.

 

Same as people who found out botanizing gave massive ticks, grinded to 90 then reported it to be a bug.  When the change was made to stop the higher skillgain, the people who already used the bug to get to 90 did not lose their skill.

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Thing is, I missed all those abuses, idc, im glad they were fixed, never a bad time to stop or make change. 

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On 12/5/2017 at 8:42 AM, Mclavin said:


before I joined or knew, lockpicking was abused, shields was abused, meditation was abused, fight skill was abused. Body stats abused. Shield bashing abused....im running out of breath.

 

Hey who told you about my history!

 

The reality is now as it has been forever, if you find a "window of opportunity" it is open season. Just don't be too good, too exploitative, or you might catch a ban.

 

+1 something should probably be done

-1 to most suggestions in this thread

 

+0 on the balance

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On 12/13/2017 at 8:49 PM, Mclavin said:

jake the questions you put forward were answered over and over in discord and here at some point. We get that you don't want it/ don't see it as an issue, but others do. 
the problem does exist because 2 kingdoms are complaining about it and as was pointed out earlier in the thread, through out time it was complained about.

 

 

You have yet to answer this, how is this affecting your game play?

 

How is it affecting anyone's game play?

 

I do not hang out in your personal toxic discord channel so I am not privy to those special discussions you have had with who knows.

 

Oh and you say 2 kingdoms are complaining, out of how many kingdoms on chaos?

 

Obviously its not that huge of a concern or more would be complaining about this.

 

 

Edited by JakeRivers
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9 hours ago, Mclavin said:

But then why should a player who decides not to do something morally wrong then have to pvp the correct way with all the risk

 

 

Hahahaha!

Oh, the irony.

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22 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

 

You have yet to answer this, how is this affecting your game play?

 

How is it affecting anyone's game play?

 

 

It doesn't. This thread is merely an attempt to metagame more recruits for the PMKs of PVP. It's obvious. 

"COME TO [XX] KINGDOM AND GET ACCESS TO THE AFFINITY SYSTEM - BECOME A CRAFTING GOD!"

I'm really surprised this was reopened, there's no valid debate to be had here. 

Edited by As_I_Decay
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11 hours ago, Mclavin said:

If somebody earned the affinties the way it should be I'm not threatened I respect that. 

 

But exactly how is it more threatening having someone who alt farmed? Do their affinities manifest in an ominous manner? Does it slow your progress?

 

11 hours ago, Mclavin said:

no you shouldnt. 

Shall we let the powers that be decide that, rather than it being dictated by someone on their high horse? (either you or me)

 

11 hours ago, Mclavin said:

I don't get how asking your friend/logging around spy prevention to get something you otherwise probably wouldn't get is ok. 
Sounds very abusive to me. Abuse that must stop.

I didn't mention doing the above, but I guess that doesn't suit your narrative.

 

 

For the record, I'm not that keen on excessive alt farming, simply because it doesn't seem sportsmanlike. But I cannot agree with this all out "damn everyone else because I don't like it" approach. It seems like such a gross over-reaction to something that has little effect on your gameplay, when there are far more serious abuses and exploits that ought to be addressed.

Yes, a PvE method of gaining affinities would be great. But even in that scenario, us Freedomers should have, well, Freedom to be our own kingdom and dabble on Chaos if we wish.

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6 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Oh and you say 2 kingdoms are complaining, out of how many kingdoms on chaos

It's actually 3.5 kingdoms out of 5, my previous stat was wrong.

 

Quote

Grumbled:
I didn't mention doing the above, but I guess that doesn't suit your narrative.


But you did in a hypothetical way?

 

Quote

That aside, if I want to murder my alt (or alts) in order to make proper use of an affinity going to waste on their account I should be able to do so


you said if you wanted to murder your alts, I'm telling you how it's done, does it sound abusive and exploitive? Well, yes because you said

 

Quote

when there are far more serious abuses and exploit

So you agree it's abuse and explotive, just you don't see it as serious when compared to other abuses and exploties. That's cool, but explotive and abuse none the less, no?
welp, thats why I made a suggestion, if devs don't want to fix or they don't deem it serious enough, I tried. 
I'll load up my 20 2s alts and sit them outside my deed which is about 300 tiles away from hunters lodge and safely kill them, maximising my reward for zero risk.

And then I'll ask them to change the GM enforced rule of champs slaying alts. because they get banned for farming champ points and they don't get a perm skill gain from those, makes sense right.


 

Quote

But I cannot agree with this all out "damn everyone else because I don't like it" approach.

I'm actually the one who gave a solution for freedom to gain affinities without having to leave their server AND use their own playstyle. 
I've also gave 2 solutions towards the problem itself, so have others. You however have spent half your replies implying I'm ironic for mentioning abuse/explotives and half just blabbering on how i shouldn't mind abuse being take place??

If you don't like the solutions that's cool -1 and give your own. But at this point you're just blabbering on about the morals and asking why it affects me.
I've actually stated that several times throughout the thread, this doesn't affect just 1 person it affects chaos overall. Why go take the risk of pvp when you can abuse alts to get the reward.

Rather see more solutions tbh. If you can't accept the alt farming is broken, just say so.

I feel maurz's suggestion is a nice middle ground, because it will atleast stop the 2s alt farming. 

 

Quote

If there was an on going premium time needed to continue to generate an affinity then wurm benefits
As of right now you dont need a running premium time
You start a new account and you get an affinity in a few days you shouod have a running premium of 2 months before you can lose it for starters and then continue a 2 months prem uptime to continue to gain affinities at the normal rate

you see how my suggestion has nothing at all to do with who is in power


 

Edited by Mclavin

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I do not play PvP so have little idea of what is going on in terms of this being an issue which impacts the PvP aspect of the game, but I know a lot of the game is driven by real life money, so for the sake of argument, if this change was adopted, how would everyone feel about having all additional affinities wiped back to only the one you were spawned with, then from then on gain only those affins granted in pure PvP (with additional ways for freedom chars to gain affins in a different way)? The reason I ask is because if Freedomers are no longer able to gain additional affins using the PvP method and the PvP crowd can only gain additional affins by actually doing PvP, it would only be fair to wipe all chars to put everyone on a level playing field, including the people who already farmed alts to get another 20 skills, because their chars would be worth a ton of money more than anyone else trying to gain skills the PvP way after any changes are made.

 

In the same train of thought, if we are going to draw lines in the sand between what should only happen on PvP or what should only be allowed on Freedom, what about the zero-penalty transition of any char between Chaos and Freedom to do stuff on the other servers... e.g. hunting dragons or doing rifts or selling Chaos stuff to care bear Freedom softies or get armor and weapons made on

Freedom and kept safely until needed on Chaos... all of these things are part of a bigger picture of which affinity farming by Freedomers on Chaos is only one small part. 

 

I am in an alliance with people who play Freedom for a relaxing time and go to Chaos when they need their PvP boost, both parts of the coin seem to engage them.   

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Time to chime in again:  Remove Chaos from Freedom, and all issues are solved.  Sorry I know people hate this idea, but it really does solve most issues without much work.  The reason I bring this option up, it prevents all future abuse.  :)

 

After re-reading the thread, to avoid issues of Freedomer's wanting to buy PMK items, why not make them [pmk items on freedom] Cash Shop items for the devs, and the PMK's get % silver sales :) just shooting options to help, devs, pmks and future abuse issues.   

Edited by Brew
helped fix freedom buying pmk issues
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On 12/15/2017 at 1:14 AM, Nappy said:

The more I think about this the more I think about it like a game design question. Where do the devs want this game to go?

 

On the one hand we have the warrior class asking for a tweak that benefits their game play while reducing the game play of others who have a different style of play.

 

On the other hand we have the other classes, people who just like living on a dangerous server, those who don't want to seek out danger but don't mind being in danger should it arrive. Is their game play any less valuable? It isn't in terms of premium time.

 

More importantly in the time period it mimics, warriors were a minority class. A society needed to function in order to support it's military people. If you look at where Wurm is today it seems like the warrior class dominates on the PVP servers and as a result the servers are slowing moving to their mindset. Part of this is the lack of a viable role for the non-warrior classes on PVP servers. Merchants are really a big deal and the whole needing supplies to continue a war effort doesn't really have a role either. Warriors truly can operate without any help from supporting services.

 

The problem is that it's the other classes that have the best potential for recruiting new players who may one day decide to become warriors. 

 

Something for the game designers to carefully consider if they haven't already.

 

 

More reason to separate them? 

 

Make the choice of living on chaos matter.  Warriors thrive there but without any way to trade with freedom you will want those non-warrior classes to be on deed again as it was intended.  Playing in the thick of it all, instead of safely in the time-share we call freedom. :)

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5 hours ago, Brew said:

 

 

More reason to separate them? 

 

Make the choice of living on chaos matter.  Warriors thrive there but without any way to trade with freedom you will want those non-warrior classes to be on deed again as it was intended.  Playing in the thick of it all, instead of safely in the time-share we call freedom. :)

 

If Chaos were separated from Freedom, how much difference would there be between Chaos and Epic?

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6 hours ago, Brew said:

Time to chime in again:  Remove Chaos from Freedom, and all issues are solved.  Sorry I know people hate this idea, but it really does solve most issues without much work.  The reason I bring this option up, it prevents all future abuse.  :)

 

After re-reading the thread, to avoid issues of Freedomer's wanting to buy PMK items, why not make them [pmk items on freedom] Cash Shop items for the devs, and the PMK's get % silver sales :) just shooting options to help, devs, pmks and future abuse issues.   

 

Oh sure... hey here's an idea, why don't we just disable PvP all together, sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya (or however you spell it).

 

Here's what would happen if the islands were separated:

1.  Retired PvPers will steal even more of your uniques on Freedom because they have nothing better to do.

2.  Your bulk market tanks (you do realize Chaos buys more bulk mats BY FAR than any other server, except *maybe* Xanadu due to it's size, right?

3.  Rare sailboats become as worthless as other rares that sit around people's deeds and shine.

 

OK, now that this bright idea has been quashed, anyone else that's never set foot on Chaos before have any more brilliant suggestions?  

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If you remove chaos from freedom you might as well just remove chaos as well. If a change has to be made to this system, there needs to be consideration for all aspects of wurms players. The system should not be geared towards one side of game play. There are easy ways to accomplish the removal of the ease behind taking affinities from new accounts that are strictly used for that purpose, and if this were changed so that at least time of continued premium time is needed to lose an affinity to begin with that alone would more then likely solve the biggest part of the issue and the reasoning for this thread. 

 

My comment of -1 still stands as of most of the comments made until i see more neutral ideas for a better system.

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It took me a long time to pipe in on this thread, but those who know me also know that I've never been fond of killing alts for affinities.  I do not agree with the majority of 'suggestions' in this thread, but I do agree that the alt affinity kills are an abuse of the system.  Anything that requires you to use a VPN (or a friend logging in the alt) to get around the spy prevention program is an abuse of the system.  Stop for a moment and ask yourself why the spy prevention system was even put into place? 

 

I honestly don't have a good answer to stopping the abuse, other than making it a bannable offense, especially when it's painfully obvious, such as 6 alts with the same name with i, ii, iii, etc tagged onto the name.  

 

I do like the idea of freedomers being able to gain an affinity of sorts through grinding their preferred skills on their own accounts; not sure exactly how that would work out, but it's a start.  Completely changing the freedom isles kingdom on chaos is not the answer though.  This is a sandbox, and people should be able to play as they wish, within the rules.  Affinity kills are a grey area apparently, and I would fully support an actual rule against them, with proper punishments for breaking said rules.

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1 hour ago, Lisabet said:

Stop for a moment and ask yourself why the spy prevention system was even put into place? 

 

well according to Rolf it was actually to discourage not prevent

 

I don't think making it bannable is the best idea.  I thought it could be, but then what about people that kill an alt to complete a goal since killing legitimate players with a belaying pin isn't always the best of ideas, that's not really "abuse" nor should be bannable.  Then since a vpn is needed anyway, people can just not use obvious names and claim it was real pvp because one name was only killed once a month or something.  too many grey areas and impossibilities, and will just have tons of people with grudges that know best reporting their enemies when an unknown name dies

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I haven't ready every post here, but have an ideal solution for the problem.  Simply limit any affinity gained on Chaos to just Chaos usable.  If you return to Freedom you lose access to those affinities.  One might argue that the option to gain affinities should be added to Freedom in a limited aspect and that could be installed with extremely rare chance at perhaps a Rift or such that is a manifestation of Chaos on Freedom.  If this were added in of course to be consistent any gains on Freedom would not transfer over to Chaos.  I am not talking about skill gain of course, but just the affinities.  Before the discussion of it being unfair for wilders to lose the affinities when going to Freedom, consider that a right given to anyone on Freedom regardless of playstyle is the protection of your properties in a deed or house from theft.  How would PMK members feel if the suggestion were made that whenever they left Freedom server to go to Chaos that their deed would be open for looting?  A good deal of which is transported to Freedom to keep it safe from being raided on the home server.  Moreso, how would Freedomers feel if this same restriction were placed on them, opening up their possessions for theft if they sail into Chaos or port to Epic.  It would be far simpler to restrict the gains from Chaos harvesting to just when on Chaos.  Open for challenge and discussion.

 

PS : I am a Kumbayah singing tree hugging Freedomer, but I do feel the benefits gained through Chaos risk should be gained through the same risk as if one lived on the server every day. 

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10 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

well according to Rolf it was actually to discourage not prevent

 

I don't think making it bannable is the best idea.  I thought it could be, but then what about people that kill an alt to complete a goal since killing legitimate players with a belaying pin isn't always the best of ideas, that's not really "abuse" nor should be bannable.  Then since a vpn is needed anyway, people can just not use obvious names and claim it was real pvp because one name was only killed once a month or something.  too many grey areas and impossibilities, and will just have tons of people with grudges that know best reporting their enemies when an unknown name dies

Fair enough, but your argument also goes for the other ideas in this thread tbh.  And I imagine it's why the team doesn't seem to want to touch the topic with a 10 foot pole.  But there shouldn't be the complete inanity of killing a ton of alts with the same name and numbers tacked on either.  

 

*edit* Or here's a thought, how about removing the absolutely insane personal goals such as killing a player with a peg, or belaying pin, or other non actual weapon?  Then it wouldn't be a 'requirement' to use an alt to complete those personal goals.  I understand personal goals being difficult, but having to do something that dumb to complete one is...yeah.  Pickaxes and shovels barely make more sense than a belaying pin.

Edited by Lisabet
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Why not just ad in an equal negative affinity. Look at D&D for example, for every positive attribute there is a negative one there about's. You get the idea.

 

There are several different ways to approaching adding a negative affinity(s) but, that basic idea is there. I'll leave it up to you guys to think about this and talk about it if you so wish to. 

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[16:26:11] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[16:27:36] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[16:29:43] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[16:32:55] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[16:43:06] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[16:44:42] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[16:46:31] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[16:48:07] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[16:51:19] Deadcrow slain by Demondan Tpikol
[16:53:50] Deadcrow slain by Tpikol
[16:55:20] Deadcrow slain by Tpikol
[16:56:29] Deadcrow slain by Tpikol


 Loves a good affinity farm

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[22:27:18] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[22:28:44] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[22:30:50] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[22:34:03] Demondan slain by Vantalla
[22:44:13] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[22:45:50] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[22:47:39] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[22:49:15] Demondan slain by Deadcrow
[22:52:27] Deadcrow slain by Demondan Tpikol
[22:54:58] Deadcrow slain by Tpikol
[22:56:28] Deadcrow slain by Tpikol
[22:57:37] Deadcrow slain by Tpikol
[23:04:09] Chasone slain by Tpikol
[23:06:28] Chasone slain by Tpikol
[23:07:38] Chasone slain by Tpikol

 

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affinity farming or fight skill farming seems to be getting out of hand .. need some better regulations even for chaos.

 

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