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Mclavin

Disable affinity stealing involving freedomers *Updated*

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18 hours ago, Iberis said:

 

If some of our suggestions go through like what Mclovin suggested for example then yes we can police it.

 

But how do we police alt affinity farming abuse from freedomers that cross onto a server border kill their alts then jump back across quickly. We can't camp every part of every border - not to mention we have better things to do then trying to prevent freedomers from exploiting. This is why we are making these suggestion threads.

The best case scenario would to make it bannable,  if it is truly something the game doesn't want to allow, all the other options of making it so you can't have multiple affinities on non pvp servers seems a bit harsh since some currently involved with pvp might need a break or choose to sell a character etc.

 

Personally it doesn't effect me, I just tire of the making more rules to try and curb undesired behavior that while it may work for awhile will end up causing more drama and backlash later on, if you want to have the game remove all affinities from everything not pvp be my guest, if at some time later when pvp is stagnant and has a lack of players and the bitching begins you can't use your affinities gained on a " risk vrs reward server " then I hope it's quiet at that time.

 

Of course this all depends if at that later time the players pushing the hardest for this even still play at all.

Edited by Kadore
Siri can't spell

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18 hours ago, Mclavin said:


Idk how a system that combines small things into bigger things to make them useable faster is a greed system. The kingdom gained from it and Also people who attended those slayings knew what was up, if you don't want to pitch your share towards a group effort, don't come and kill, pretty simple. How is it stealing if you're the one handing it over??. It was also the same system that got worldstar built in 5 days from the server opening, weeks ahead of any other kingdom. It doesn't even apply to what this topic/greed is. I don't even know why you're commenting on a groups loot system, a group that stayed together and continued that system with each other for years. 

Is rolling on the 15th rare longsword you currently own, just for owning it, better than letting somebody who needs it take? If no, then ok welcome to JKE loot system. Greed? 

 

Not wanting to change abuse because "I haven't got around to abusing that yet, that isnt fair" is greed mentality, People not wanting to change something because somebody else has abused it already, seems like a good way to run things, right. 
stop worrying about what x has got over you, it's no reason to stop good updates that better the game.

pretty sure thats the same mentality that stopped sotg changes for years.
 

Interesting response. I always enjoy seeing people spin-doctor an issue to fit their perspective. To be fair we all likely do this to some extent.

 

I think it's great when members of a kingdom band together and help each other. Weapons and armor to players at no charge, free enchants etc. In fact I do that all the time. I seriously can't remember the last time I ever charged someone for a tool, weapon, armor or enchant on a PVP server.

 

Where we differ might be the interpretation of how the system was implemented. Rather then the paradise indicated in your response I understand that it was more a matter of the strong taking from the weak, give it up or die in other words. Hmmm, doesn't sound like a warm, supportive, all inclusive kingdom does it?

 

The last part about changing abuse because I haven't got around to it. That's simple, I never will get around to it. I don't abuse, exploit and do underhanded things. It's simply not how I choose to play the game. Other people can make their own choices about how they play the game. Hmmm, I guess in the end I have to -1 the suggestion after all thanks to this revelation.

 

~Nappy

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It has Nothing to do with perspective, were you ever part of JKE because you seem to have an outsiders perspective versus me, somebody who was a bottom guy in the group and had no problem with how it was handled. 
so who's actually spin-doctoring the perspective here? The guy commenting on a groups loot system he wasn't apart of, or the guy dismissing the claims and was a part of it. ;)

Also, nobody was forced to hand it over, if on home servers we said you can but not needed, and some people did and some didn't, we didn't care.

I don't get how a groups loot system, one which is being used by Loa and now TC (when it comes to dragons), has ANYTHING to do with abusing an affinity system. if you want to carry on this convo, feel free to pm me. 

otherwise, stick to the topic. The abuse of affinity alts and farming them. 


~~~~~~~mclovin~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~xoxoxo

Edited by Mclavin
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At the moment obtaining affinities is completely a pvp inherent system, intended fully for pvp and only available in a pvp server. It is a system intended to reward you for engaging into pvp with a foe and vanquishing them. This is so much the case that there is already a mechanic in place to prevent people of the same kingdom from farming affinities from one another.

 

Yet people have come up with ways to game the system.

 

Like I have said in my discussions before, I personally dont care if someone farms affinities or not, but the pvp community does. This being a pvp feature, it should fall into the hands of those who enjoy this game style when discussing how it should be best applied. No one took into consideration what tunneling and autoleveling the top would do to the pvp servers, and this is a feature that affected Chaos as well.

 

And before someone brings up some inane argument about how alt farming affects pve, keep in mind that in order for you to obtain an affinity from someone else, you have to sail to the pvp server and kill another player for it. This is the opposite of a pve act. So no, its not a pve feature, and there is no other way to obtain it.

 

Go back to freedom, and if you have nothing to contribute, stay there. Otherwise, welcome to Chaos and hope to see you on the battlefield.

Edited by Angelklaine
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Well, I agree that they cannot gain an affinity without traveling to chaos.  However, you should not say this does not affect people that are on the freedom servers (you are saying they shouldn't have the affinities there that they might have gained in a straightforward method).  And even if your suggestion had absolutely nothing to do with anyone on freedom.  If it affects chaos, it will affect freedom servers.  That is just the way the code is.  So welcome to Wurm the game where nothing is fully PVP only or PVE only.  Everyone should have a say about things that will affect them.  If you don't care for it, your private forums are well somewhere else.

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I am not in favor from stopping affinties working on freedom. Infact I'm in favor of freedom being able to gain their affinties with PVE playstyle aswell. I just don't want alts to be farmed for them. 

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Was gonna say... loot systems of various kingdoms has nothing to do with this topic. It's the business of each kingdom to decide how they want to do things and if the people in that kingdom don't like it they can leave it.

 

Back on topic... my suggestion to only allow affinities to work on PVP enabled servers was me just tossing an idea out there to see what people thought. I mean it was a solution to prevent affinity farming. Another option might be if that was used would be to allow it so that 1 or even up to certain amount (let's say 5 for example) work on freedom. The majority of freedom players don't have more then one affinity. The ones that have more have either been pvping on chaos in the past, brought the account or are exploiting by killing alts. It would really only affect a small minority of players if we allowed the first 5 affinities a player gains to work on freedom (or even just that starter one).

 

I mean that is a kinder compromise to the suggestion I made on the previous page.. idk. Once again I'm just floating suggestions and ideas (a reminder since some people seem to be taking this personal).

 

But if the gm's would enforce bans on alt farming for affinities that of course would be the most simple and fastest way to solve this ongoing issues. I mean as it stands a champ can get banned for farming champ points. That's another pvp reward/mechanic similiar to affinities. If you can get banned for farming champ points why can't you get banned for farming affinities?

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On 12/7/2017 at 2:59 AM, Iberis said:

 

Yeah we certainly saw it at LoA...

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But, back to the topic. if mods can keep this clean that be cool.

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55 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

At the moment obtaining affinities is completely a pvp inherent system, intended fully for pvp and only available in a pvp server. It is a system intended to reward you for engaging into pvp with a foe and vanquishing them. This is so much the case that there is already a mechanic in place to prevent people of the same kingdom from farming affinities from one another.

 

Yet people have come up with ways to game the system.

 

Like I have said in my discussions before, I personally dont care if someone farms affinities or not, but the pvp community does. This being a pvp feature, it should fall into the hands of those who enjoy this game style when discussing how it should be best applied. No one took into consideration what tunneling and autoleveling the top would do to the pvp servers, and this is a feature that affected Chaos as well.

 

And before someone brings up some inane argument about how alt farming affects pve, keep in mind that in order for you to obtain an affinity from someone else, you have to sail to the pvp server and kill another player for it. This is the opposite of a pve act. So no, its not a pve feature, and there is no other way to obtain it.

 

Go back to freedom, and if you have nothing to contribute, stay there. Otherwise, welcome to Chaos and hope to see you on the battlefield.

The thread asks to only allow the ability to have one affinity on the PVE servers, in that respect is does effect that part of the game, god knows PVP players contribute to discussion involving PVE, seriously, get a clue and understand all things pretty much effect Wurm as a whole in the end.

 

People that buy your characters when your either tired of the game might want more than one affinity active, or who knows you might even bore of the PVP style someday.

 

People will say what they want in threads regardless of your feelings or letting people know if they are allowed or not, but hey enough of my friends have already stopped contributing to the game as a whole, so lets do all we can to further draw lines in the sand.

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4 minutes ago, Kadore said:

The thread asks to only allow the ability to have one affinity on the PVE servers, in that respect is does effect that part of the game, god knows PVP players contribute to discussion involving PVE, seriously, get a clue and understand all things pretty much effect Wurm as a whole in the end.

 

People that buy your characters when your either tired of the game might want more than one affinity active, or who knows you might even bore of the PVP style someday.

 

People will say what they want in threads regardless of your feelings or letting people know if they are allowed or not, but hey enough of my friends have already stopped contributing to the game as a whole, so lets do all we can to further draw lines in the sand.


The thread/OP doesn't ask that, it was a comment brought up. I -1 it.

Edited by Mclavin

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6 minutes ago, Kadore said:

The thread asks to only allow the ability to have one affinity on the PVE servers, in that respect is does effect that part of the game, god knows PVP players contribute to discussion involving PVE, seriously, get a clue and understand all things pretty much effect Wurm as a whole in the end.

 

People that buy your characters when your either tired of the game might want more than one affinity active, or who knows you might even bore of the PVP style someday.

 

People will say what they want in threads regardless of your feelings or letting people know if they are allowed or not, but hey enough of my friends have already stopped contributing to the game as a whole, so lets do all we can to further draw lines in the sand.

The suggestion is to disallow Freedom Isles accounts from transferring affinities. Disabling affinities is another thing someone else suggested. I never said affinities should be disabled. That would be dumb. Disabling Freedom Isles from transferring affinities is the suggestion I support.

 

You might want to re-read the suggestion being discussed.

Edited by Angelklaine
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I promised myself i will restrain myself from this discussion but i also have one more objection that i didnt mention before. The thing with you is that you take some things for granted and think that everyone else should play and think like you. You stated that point of Chaos is to gather people in groups or that only case you should be particapating in pvp is by being part of pmk. But why? I know it might be hard for you to grasp but some people don't want to play in group, in the matter of fact now that i think about it it's the think the drove me away from Chaos most. The fact that i have to live in village with other people, that i have to go in groups out in the wildernes, that i have to coordinate with others. I know from my case and from talks with other people that wurm is among thousands of other mmos safe haven for introvert people that want to socialize much but still wanna play mmo and don't feel left out because of it because there are ways to aquire content that is normaly aquired from group playing for example i can either be part of group to have fancy wagon or i can sit two days, make bricks or something and buy that fancy wagon which i is great. Sorry for the long intro the point is that is wrong to be forced to be social to get reward and rewarding socialness with anything else than enjoymemt of spending time with people. For a solo player there is no way to put himself in risk and earn loot and affinity in honest 1 on 1 combat with someone of his skill, thats the first problem. Second one, imagine following scenario, i admit this does not happen often as i know but its legit. Lets say a bunch of freedomers want to spend fun weekend roaming the chaos without joining pmk, and they run into some pmk member and kill him, by your suggestion they don't get reward despite theyve put themself at risk and participated true pvp because they are fredomers, why? Even if it doesnt happen often why deprive that posibility? So in conclusion i don't mind making affinity farming even harder although i stated in another thread it already is not easy, or even finding a way to completly removing it which i think would be hard to properly do without moving all pvp from chaos to epic only and disconect it from freedom which is a shame because of hota statues and wagona and banners that people from freedom buy which is another topic, but i think your solution to do that is bad, as well as the solution mentioned in thread about affinities only working on chaos.

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You are painting a picture of Chaos that is not entirely true. Yes it is best if players join one of the PMK's because there is safety in numbers. Yet that does not mean you have too. I know of a Hots deed on the map which is not aligned to any group. Murkham for the past couple of months was part of Ebonaura but was independant. I know players in a couple of kingdoms that have gone off to do their own projects within the kingdom. Recently in LoA we had a player who wanted to bear gyrlls it up in the wild all by himself completely offdeed and only tonight did he decide he had his fun off on his own and now wants to live with us for a bit. I'm sure if I really put my mind to it I could think of a few more examples and hell I've only been playing on Chaos since April this year so I'm probably missing lots of examples before my time.

 

PVP has always come across to me as a team sport. Your average player cannot do every skill and enchant required to gear up. So most kingdoms will have priests and various crafters and of course numbers does help in fights. I don't understand why sharing the same kingdom and being part of a team would be something bad (bare in mind you could always go off and do your own deed I'm sure most kingdoms would allow that). Each kingdom has a different playerbase so if you don't get along with one set of personalities then try another. There is no written rule that forces anyone to be social when joining a kingdom. I think every group has their "shy" or quiet players.

 

Like if you come online and play a MMO and refuse all social interactions then why play a MMO in the first place and why not just do single player Wurm Unlimited. The whole point of an MMO is that it is multiplayer. Makes sense for a multiplayer game to have content that is hard or difficult to solo. I mean I could say.... well why are you not telling us that Rifts and Unique fights are unfair too because you sure as hell can't solo those either to get those rewards.

 

21 minutes ago, kochinac said:

For a solo player there is no way to put himself in risk and earn loot and affinity in honest 1 on 1 combat with someone of his skill, thats the first problem.

There are 1 vs 1 situations. Kingen dechamping Threap a few months back was during a 1 vs 1 just as an example. So saying it doesn't happen isn't entirely true.

 

21 minutes ago, kochinac said:

Lets say a bunch of freedomers want to spend fun weekend roaming the chaos without joining pmk, and they run into some pmk member and kill him, by your suggestion they don't get reward despite theyve put themself at risk and participated true pvp because they are fredomers, why? Even if it doesnt happen often why deprive that posibility?

Well nothing stopping them converting into Hots and doing this - if Mclovin's suggestion is implimented into the game. Also... I mean how likely is that to ever happen? If a group of players were serious about wanting to have some fun on Chaos they would join a Kingdom.

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There used to be a freedom group with deeds and all over on chaos.  Not sure if they are still over there but that is just one example of a group that play together on chaos as freedom kingdom.

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6 minutes ago, Pashka said:

There used to be a freedom group with deeds and all over on chaos.  Not sure if they are still over there but that is just one example of a group that play together on chaos as freedom kingdom.

There would be nothing stopping them doing that as Hots, an exisiting PMK but acting independantly or even forming their own PMK.

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Rifts and uniques does not require much teamwork and as such is very comforttable for me, and they rarely present any risk, you just show up along other people and do your thing mostly and beside you always have the option to buy hide and rift mats if you don't participate. You can run into 1v1 but most likely you will be slauthered in x v 1 if you seek encounter solo. You maybe cant craft and enchant everything but you can always buy and it is not that hard to provide yourself entirely if you put your mind in just for that. This essentaly is not so much related to this topic anyway and would require different alternative for which i think i have suggestion i still need to work on. Grouping gives you strength and thats ok, nothing will ever change that, but considering only that style in premmise and basing everything in suggestion on that like it was done here is wrong. And please don't twist my words like you always do, i don't refuse all social interactions but don't thing that social interactions should be rewarded with anything else that its easier to do it together rather than its only way to do it together. Multiplayer doesnt always mean not playing solo or that you should play in group for anything i see that you are one of those people who don't get that... I like the sense of being in a wide wurm community and having people around but not having to be forced to interact much with them all the time, thats way i play mmo and cant play single player anymore. And for the last part what is the most important, exactly there is nothing stopping anyone to convert to hots and farm freedom alt so this suggestion does nothing essentialy and removes legit posibilities no mather how unlikely they are.

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I agree your points were off-topic... this is about trying to prevent affinity farming which many view as an exploit. So I'm going to stick to that topic rather then talking about what you want out of a MMO (unless of course you want to farm affinities and somehow that's the point you are trying to make here??)

 

6 minutes ago, kochinac said:

And for the last part what is the most important, exactly there is nothing stopping anyone to convert to hots and farm freedom alt so this suggestion does nothing essentialy and removes legit posibilities no mather how unlikely they are.

Ummmm... have you even read the suggestion? Read Mclovin's post again and you'll realise that would be impossible. Please read the actual initial suggestion that triggered this discussion before casually down voting it.

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Better question is did you read it? As you are suggesting people to convert to hots to do pvp if they wanna do it outside pmk, but  You are saying that cant be used to farm affinities?

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My bad, you are are right about that, failed to see that they cant take affinity from freedom if they are hots, sorry

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Hey, I'll say one thing. 

 

Nothing you said has nothing to do with farming alts, so come up with a solution to what my server sees as a problem. We live here full time, why should we bend just so this cheating can go on? That's fair????? 

 

Come up with a solution. 

 

And you have a good theory but nobody has came over as a freedom group to just pvp, since i been here, so yeah. Whilst you pretend to know what goes on over here without being here, I'll tell you that you are far from realistic and I'm not in favour of letting abuse continue just to incase your fantasy stories come true, but if they do, why can't they go bl and do that if they want the affinities???? 

 

Starting to think that some peeps are so interested in keeping thier own interests that they're blind by what's said past the title. If you can't grasp the change,don't leave essays with invalid comments about fantasy stories or how it's unfair on freedom. No it's unfair on us, it isn't always about you and your rights, restore ours. Restore what many came over for, you try to say it's a failed incentive, well im here for it and I'm making a suggestion of change to protect it aswell. 

Edited by Mclavin

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Currently I know of at least 3 guys who play solo or in pairs on Chaos. In the past there were more, if you remember Falgorth/Colsandicus/Bloodtooth, and Placebo. These guys got pinned down at The Shroud by TC and they fended off (In a way) the TC guys. Back then it was Colsandicus and Placebo. Why? Because they were king/champ. 

 

Thats something that hots has over Freedom Isles: The ability to hold offices, the crown and champs. If you have more than a passing interest on soloing on Chaos for other than affinity farming, thats where you should be. It more than doubles your chances. This suggestion does not affect those who have a real interest in pvp. Even solo.

 

 

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