Disable affinity stealing involving freedomers *Updated*

[Mclavin 3,704]

Hi, you can only be hots or freedom on chaos, there is no JK and MR template kingdom.

All other kingdoms are PMK, thus leaving it to PMKS to sanction.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Mclavin

[MaurizioAM 919]

If there was absolutely no effort involved with the process and no expense I would agree but as long as this game has been up many have done this and much worse stuff giving people more advantages then what affinities give I can't agree with this.  There has been far worse real exploitive skills that have and had been taken advantage of meanwhile the few affinities which are being taken from paid for accounts just add a slight skill increase for people to make the wurm grind a little bit manageable. 

 

Reverse the exploited skills that players have and I would be more then happy to give my +1 to suggestions like this. 

 

I would be more on board if 50fs was a minimum to lose an affinity and also a minimum time of consectutive premium time like 2 months... This way rather then a toon just being a affinity alt that's prem up for 15 days it guarantees to be an ongoing premium to a real toon. 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Not sure how you would enforce other kingdoms from allowing affinity farming to continue, it will still happen regardless who controls it.

 

It has been happening for years, I think if you keep pushing the matter they will just remove the ability to gain a affinity and then that part of the game will die.

Edited December 5, 2017 by shakys
Moderation Edit.

[Mclavin 3,704]

2 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

If there was absolutely no effort involved with the process and no expense I would agree but as long as this game has been up many have done this and much worse stuff giving people more advantages then what affinities give I can't agree with this.  There has been far worse real exploitive skills that have and had been taken advantage of meanwhile the few affinities which are being taken from paid for accounts just add a slight skill increase for people to make the wurm grind a little bit manageable. 

 

Reverse the exploited skills that players have and I would be more then happy to give my +1 to suggestions like this. 

 

I would be more on board if 50fs was a minimum to lose an affinity and also a minimum time of consectutive premium time like 2 months... This way rather then a toon just being a affinity alt that's prem up for 15 days it guarantees to be an ongoing premium to a real toon. 

Your -1 came with a solution, so i +1 any solution for this, thanks for the idea

Edited December 5, 2017 by Mclavin

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Mo you can make the fs required for a affinity 70 and they will still farm them.

[faty 423]

The cost to get an alt with random affinity today is 2s or less.. so can't the system be changed in such a way that not even pmk people could abuse it? I've seen affinities go from 2s to the recent bs one of 20s. So if the costs to get an affinity alt are high then it won't be worth to farm them.

If only characters that have had premium for at least 4 months will lose an affinity, which is a decent time for pvp if you want sotg or other med path anyway, then it will cost around 30s and probably not worth the time and cost to farm on a large scale.

 

Edit: some people already made similar suggestions while I struggled to write this on my phone

Edited December 5, 2017 by faty

[platinumteef 2,200]

Disable affinities on freedom aside from the very first one thats given to the character, if that one is lost in pvp the next new one replaces it on freedom side. Make it to where affinities beyond the initial one only apply the skill bonus if you are on chaos skilling that way at least the affinity farmers have a chance to lose their 'pvp' acquired affinities if they want to utilize them. Maybe this will add more incentive to play on Chaos? Idk.

 

I dont see any other way around this mechanic aside from removing chaos from freedom, seeing as how unless people continue to name their alts "oblivionreaversaltone, oblivionreaversalttwo etc" you won't ever be able to prove that someone is killing their own characters (pls, vpns. throw on a weapon and shield and some armor that way it looks like a real fight via logs etc)

 

also, I don't think removing freedom characters from giving affinities yet allowing PMK's the ability to farm affinities and expecting them to "police their own" is fair

 

+1 to a solution, -1 to this solution because I don't think this is the best possible one.

Edited December 5, 2017 by platinumteef

[Angelklaine 4,266]

You cannot make your alts MR anymore, and JK is a PMK on Chaos. You can't just join it for affinities. HotS, sure, but you can't just become HotS. You'd need to either find someone to convert you, or get enough bad reputation to become HotS. Neither are simple to do, and both would require you to be involved on Chaos to some degree, or know someone that is.

 

Removing Freedom Isles from affinities farming would make things complicated for the random joe to just sail over and farm them. Its not a perfect system, but reduces the chance of it happening, plus it gives true Chaos players a way to exact a toll from those who allow this practice to continue.

 

Personally, I am ambivalent to it, but I see the issue this brings to the Chaos scene, and how it would help to have it stopped.

[BrQQQ 2,854]

I like Odynn's idea about affinities, but perhaps can mix it up so that your first affinity is a random skill regardless of what skill you're doing (although you still need to be performing actions) and the ones after that are like what Odynn proposed. This would mean you constantly have to grind the accounts to get a new affinity to lose.

[Chlodovech 246]

If the GMs would enforce the game rules this would not be an issue.

[Odynn 2,248]

9 minutes ago, BrQQQ said:

I like Odynn's idea about affinities

 

well, the idea came from mclovin during an internal discussion, where we were talking about the mentality difference between PvE only freedom, Chaos affinities PvP incentive and the fact both side (and cluster if we take epic in account) need a way to get them / access the whole gameplay... by playing as we want... which is why it's a sandbox.

 

Most of the points raised in that topic got raised during our discussion, those who know me probably know that i defend a freedom pve gameplay  where you do not have to be forced into pvp. incentive might sounds great on the paper, but they never worked and are just bad for the game balance.

 

What we are currently facing is an abused system for good or bad reasons and McLovin is right on that. Abuses on the long run will always be bad... even if we keep them to level the playfield... or because others abused them before ... or whatever.

 

Now, if we prevent freedomers from jumping to chaos for a minutes to get an affinity of an alt... we are screwing a part of our community and this is not good as well. Not only they have to do something they are not interested in (affinity transfer do not work on freedom) but they are also taking an unnecessary risk that only shed another dark shadow on the whole pvp scene.

 

Both suggestions goes hand in hand, remove the alt farming, allow the grind to develop affinities as you play and make the real affinity gained through pvp a reward and not just another abuse that allows a few to be stronger than others through shady tactics.

[kochinac 1,395]

-1 and please have decency not to put me among people interested in abusing system because i'm not one of them.

First of all answer me this, paying someone 10s for weaponsmithing affinity is abusing system by obtaining advantage you should not have in your opinion but buying account with 90 weaponsmithing for 100+ silvers instead of grinding your own skill is not, is that logical. I'm not arguing what's right what's wrong, and i'm not taking opinion wheater thoose things should be forbiden or not i'm just trying to point out that line in which something is abusment or not is purely subjective and you are very bias as pvper because you feel that you have right to something just because you choose one playstyle over the other and devs should reward you for that over other people? Skilling account to 70 fs and then killing it over and over' again to grind your fs is ok, but buying premium for you alt to take his affinity is not? And how should you prove that someone was killing his alt or just killed inocent freedom wonderer ig someones friend logs alt? If my freedom friend asks me to get him rid of his bad affinity and i take him to chaos and kill him am i abusing system that much that is worth of a ban or hate from you pvpers? And how do you plan to draw line among hundred other cases and situations what is wrong and what is right and who gives you that right?

[Wurmhole 3,650]

+1

 

Edit:  I suggest a slightly different way to handle this: Make an affinity steal be a random affinity.  Doesn't matter what the original affinity was for the vanquished player. When they are killed, the victor receives a random affinity.  Now farming is a roll of the dice and that should be too much of a gamble to effectively farm.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Wurmhole

[Angelklaine 4,266]

18 minutes ago, kochinac said:

-1 and please have decency not to put me among people interested in abusing system because i'm not one of them.

First of all answer me this, paying someone 10s for weaponsmithing affinity is abusing system by obtaining advantage you should not have in your opinion but buying account with 90 weaponsmithing for 100+ silvers instead of grinding your own skill is not, is that logical. I'm not arguing what's right what's wrong, and i'm not taking opinion wheater thoose things should be forbiden or not i'm just trying to point out that line in which something is abusment or not is purely subjective and you are very bias as pvper because you feel that you have right to something just because you choose one playstyle over the other and devs should reward you for that over other people? Skilling account to 70 fs and then killing it over and over' again to grind your fs is ok, but buying premium for you alt to take his affinity is not? And how should you prove that someone was killing his alt or just killed inocent freedom wonderer ig someones friend logs alt? If my freedom friend asks me to get him rid of his bad affinity and i take him to chaos and kill him am i abusing system that much that is worth of a ban or hate from you pvpers? And how do you plan to draw line among hundred other cases and situations what is wrong and what is right and who gives you that right?

Being a player gives all of us the right to make suggestions to what should and not be changed. But thats beside the point.

 

Whats not beside the point is this, however. As it stands right now, affinities are something that when it was created, it was intended to be a reward for pvp. This is not up for debate. Staff has already confirmed this. So given thats what it is, why should a Freedomer, who has no interest of even ever going to Chaos, benefit from a feature that was exclusively made to benefit pvp players? 

 

Now I am not for or against farming affinities. I have purchased affinities myself in the past. But it doesnt sit well with me that someone gets to come to Chaos and just benefits from its features when they have no intention of being part of it.

 

Sounds very much like the ages old gripe of Freedomers complaining about "PVPers" coming to Freedom to steal "their" uniques. The only difference is that us Chaos players also live on Freedom.

 

Can Freedomers say the same?

[kochinac 1,395]

6 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Being a player gives all of us the right to make suggestions to what should and not be changed. But thats beside the point.

 

Whats not beside the point is this, however. As it stands right now, affinities are something that when it was created, it was intended to be a reward for pvp. This is not up for debate. Staff has already confirmed this. So given thats what it is, why should a Freedomer, who has no interest of even ever going to Chaos, benefit from a feature that was exclusively made to benefit pvp players? 

 

Now I am not for or against farming affinities. I have purchased affinities myself in the past. But it doesnt sit well with me that someone gets to come to Chaos and just benefits from its features when they have no intention of being part of it.

 

Sounds very much like the ages old gripe of Freedomers complaining about "PVPers" coming to Freedom to steal "their" uniques. The only difference is that us Chaos players also live on Freedom.

 

Can Freedomers say the same?

From my point of view if staff thinks affinities are for pvp should have implemented better and after so many years players using that it certanly is for debate. I lived on Chaos for more that half year and was part of it,  i occasionaly go there for couple days, recently i roamed through enemy teritory in search for artifacts but very rare as i prefer freedoom and i love freedom of choice that i'm not tied up to either server or playstyle forever, where does that put me in your black and white perception of world? Maybe it does not sit me when Chaos players benefits from  Freedoom, like safe place for their loot, etc but i don't care and i hate that attitude. I think the system should stay the same as it does little harm compared to everything else, perhaps remove affinities from first 2s premium time as that seems to be the thing that triggered this topic lately but mostly -1ed because i dislike that attitude of grunge among freedom - chaos who is exploiting who and who should have what as reward for their choice of playstyle and which side should have unique things for them. And this whole debate is ridiculous. Expecially as it represents personal annoyance of group of player(s) instead of constructive suggestion on improving experience for players or balancing game so no one is on the loose side

[Niki 2,278]

They should just remove affinities from the game, that'll teach us freedomers.

 

Serious though:

I feel we need something non-pvp to get them on freedom, the skill boosts are just to stupid not to get in order to min max and be a intelligent player in this game.

[armyskin 930]

50 minutes ago, Niki said:

 

Serious though:

I feel we need something non-pvp to get them on freedom, the skill boosts are just to stupid not to get in order to min max and be a intelligent player in this game.

Maybe we can dig them up.

[Mclavin 3,704]

so reading above, nothing that says "it isn't abuse", morale of the comments against this = "it's been abused for ages, so we need to continue it" so I'm still +1 for this change. Don't abuse a system. Don't alt farm. Make changes.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Mclavin

[icbash 352]

-1
Ill plus 1 when all other toons have only 1 :-)...prob solved when u kill someone in pvp you have 5days to claim it and replace your :-)

[JakeRivers 2,921]

8 hours ago, armyskin said:

Maybe we can dig them up.

 

A splendid use of the dirt scratching skill!

 

[faty 423]

If the devs intended it to be a pvp only feature then every player that is on the freedom isles should only have one affinity and the rest only activate when he goes to chaos...

[Mclavin 3,704]

It's a pvp reward, you go pvp you get a reward. The system itself is a feature in how it hands it out. 

Guess what, it wasn't meant for alt farming. I'm raising the core issue here, you guys can write stories on how it's unfair, bla bla bla.
But in the end, it's a pvp feature and reward you're suppose to get by pvping. It isn't there so you can transfer them to alts or sell them, that's a side effect.
guess what, if you think accounts should be banned from being brought and sold, go make the thread and I'll +1.

 

Quote

Ill plus 1 when all other toons have only 1 :-)...prob solved when u kill someone in pvp you have 5days to claim it and replace your :-)

It isn't going to happen and unless you plan on slaying alts, then this update won't effect you. it will just stop future farmers.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Mclavin

[Iberis 856]

What if..

 

Affinities only worked on PVP enabled servers (Chaos & Epic)? So Freedomers could have as many as they liked but they would only give that boost to skill gain when on Chaos or Epic. Not only would this mean that people PVPing and living on Chaos would benefit because they can use the affinities they have earned and that were designed for PVP. It's also a reward for them for enduring the risk of living on a server that isn't "safe" like freedom is and may encourage more people in the longrun to live on Chaos (risk vs reward). Also having it so that affinities only worked on PVP servers would render affinity farming more or less pointless for freedomers that don't care about PVP or Chaos and never have any intention of living there. Certainly makes me feel like it won't be worth the effort if they are not getting anything from it.

[DOE 140]

yall see that body affinity I sold? xD

[Etherdrifter 2,517]

3 hours ago, Iberis said:

What if..

 

Affinities only worked on PVP enabled servers (Chaos & Epic)? So Freedomers could have as many as they liked but they would only give that boost to skill gain when on Chaos or Epic. Not only would this mean that people PVPing and living on Chaos would benefit because they can use the affinities they have earned and that were designed for PVP. It's also a reward for them for enduring the risk of living on a server that isn't "safe" like freedom is and may encourage more people in the longrun to live on Chaos (risk vs reward). Also having it so that affinities only worked on PVP servers would render affinity farming more or less pointless for freedomers that don't care about PVP or Chaos and never have any intention of living there. Certainly makes me feel like it won't be worth the effort if they are not getting anything from it.

 

This...  This is actually not a bad idea.  Keeps the "PvP incentive" while removing the "PvE safezone advantage".  This would, in essence, remove the market for affinities.