Languages, localization, internalization

[miragae 4]

Hello,

 

some time ago I wrote to Rolf Jansson, asking for a job position and possibility to work on string externalization and localization in Wurm. He told me that Code Club AB is not hiring, but encouraged me to volunteer to help with development of Wurm.

Internalization of Wurm would allow for better reception and extension of fanbase to non-english-speaking players.
I started to translate my private server to Polish for my father and I know, that it won't be an easy task, but I'm sure it's worth it.

What do you guys think about it? Do you want Wurm to be translated?
(This message is mainly directed to Budda, as he is the one Rolf advised me to contact regarding volunteering and the one I could not contact any other mean, despite trying.)

Edited November 30, 2017 by miragae

[Hoseph 49]

I don't see why not. Attracting more potential players is always a good strategy in my book where Wurm is involved.

 

Good on you for going the extra mile for your dad

[Wulfgar 1,116]

If this is for WU, I couldn't care less.

For Wurm Online,absolutely not.

 

[miragae 4]

33 minutes ago, Wulfgar said:

For Wurm Online,absolutely not.

Did you mean you are absolutely against? Could you explain your point of view?

Are you a native English speaker by any chance?

Edited December 1, 2017 by miragae

[Yiraia 427]

+1? What is the downside of getting more languages to get new players? Upsetting racists?

[Ratlin 79]

I voted yes, but i really should have mentioned a proviso ....... and yes Wurm is a niche game and as such the broader the net that can be cast the better for the long term survivability of the whole (Not that it hasn't outlasted all predictions by at least 10 years already woot!)

 

But to the proviso, the localization effort needs to be community based and not under taken by the Dev team or Code Club, (although eventually approved by them before inclusion).

[miragae 4]

I saw a great idea of how a game can be translated when fans are willing enough.

https://www.transifex.com/wildfire-games/0ad/

0AD, a free open source game, externalized their strings to one file and put it on transifex, which allowed for community (including me ) to translate them  The only work to be done by devs is to externalize them.

[Retrograde 12,013]

The major issue that wurm faces with this is the strings arent externalised, and the game was never built around that.

 

This means every single line of text, every name, every icon overlay and detail is hard coded. Pulling that all out to externalise for translation is a project beyond any current scope. 

 

Translation and localisation is something that ultimately needs to be in a game from the start, and built from the ground up, introducing any system like this is ten times harder for existing games, and given wurms codebase being over 12 years old, it's not something we could really do. 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

wurm code

 

Spoiler

 

[miragae 4]

I know exactly what you mean, Retrograde. I am fully aware what I want to get myself into.
I'm sure dev team has other things to do and the last thing I want is to take their time. This topic is rather an offer of my free time to volunteer to do it, even alone, even if it would take a year for me. Wurm is such a great game I think it is worth it. That way there would be no loss for Wurm developers, only potential gain.

And just for the proof of concept (I know it's not ideal, but its something):
 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by miragae

[Wulfgar 1,116]

18 hours ago, miragae said:

Did you mean you are absolutely against? Could you explain your point of view?

Are you a native English speaker by any chance?

 

I am not a native English speaker, but one of the reasons I became very good at English as a kid was playing computer games in English, and learning new words.

I will explain my views below.

 

17 hours ago, Yiraia said:

+1? What is the downside of getting more languages to get new players? Upsetting racists?

 

Very ignorant comment at the very least.

Wurm community is very small to begin with, and we still have players from most countries in the world, most of which are not native English speakers. We are all part of the same community, because we share one language to communicate with (and nothing stopping smaller communities of same language to communicate in another language). Back before I quit, I lived on Deliverance close to 2 Polish villages. We could talk, and trade, and help each other, maybe they were forced to use Google Translate in the beginning, but we communicated. They were some of the nicest players in Wurm, and some are still around today, and can communicate very well in English with the rest of the community, which comes from all over the world.

Let's just compare this to another game, although not quite in the same genre. I played World of Tanks for many years. World of Tanks has million of players, they have localised clients, and the only words you use to communicate with players from other countries are basically bot, noob and hacker, and a lots of nationalistic hate comments.

 

My point is that by localised clients, we are just going to split up our very small, but very friendly community. If we get localised clients, it will maybe bring new players, but they won't be forced to learn a different language to communicate with other players, and they will likely not stay for long, because the community is one of the best things about Wurm Online.

 

Also the ressources it would take, would probably stop development of new features and bugfixes for years, because you need to think of localisation when you start developing a game, not after 10+ years.

[Cecci 1,609]

Sounds like a total waste of the little devtime we have.

 

(I play another game, where I also translate new lines, it is a never ending work and nobody wants to do it.

But ofc that game is designed to be in several languages from start.)

[miragae 4]

@Wulfgar
That's an interesting point of view. I agree, that playing in one language can be a bridge to communication, however I don't think that having your UI in your own language would necessarily ruin that bridge. If you had mejsel and they had dłuto, you would probably still communicate in English and get the message across. Anyway, I'm not making decisions here, so it remains with the dev team, is it good or bad to have other languages in Wurm.

 

As for the resources you and @Cecci mentioned - as I already said in my previous post - I am not asking devs to do it, I offer to do it myself, using only my time and resources.

[Yiraia 427]

6 hours ago, Wulfgar said:

My point is that by localised clients, we are just going to split up our very small, but very friendly community. If we get localised clients, it will maybe bring new players, but they won't be forced to learn a different language to communicate with other players, and they will likely not stay for long, because the community is one of the best things about Wurm Online.

Thats pretty debatable, the majority of many players time is spent in a village. Whats wrong with having a village of spanish speakers, another of french speakers, and then english speakers. Whenever I go on long journeys I and i see people in local, usually I only get a Hi out of them. I wouldn't mind an hola or bonjour every now and then. The only thing I would like to see restricted is the language on forums, because the majority of communication I have outside of my village for wurm is either on forums or trading. 

 

Besides...

7 hours ago, Wulfgar said:

Let's just compare this to another game, although not quite in the same genre. I played World of Tanks for many years. World of Tanks has million of players, they have localised clients, and the only words you use to communicate with players from other countries are basically bot, noob and hacker, and a lots of nationalistic hate comments.

You are right in saying this is a different genre... How can you relate this to wurm's most dominate feature.. PvE?

[shtepsell 0]

UP!

What`s about translation? It`s very need for our region.

Edited December 3, 2017 by shtepsell

[shtepsell 0]

On 01.12.2017 at 6:44 PM, Retrograde said:

The major issue that wurm faces with this is the strings arent externalised, and the game was never built around that.

 

This means every single line of text, every name, every icon overlay and detail is hard coded. Pulling that all out to externalise for translation is a project beyond any current scope. 

 

Translation and localisation is something that ultimately needs to be in a game from the start, and built from the ground up, introducing any system like this is ten times harder for existing games, and given wurms codebase being over 12 years old, it's not something we could really do. 

 

It can be start doing that step by step, as i understand, in game LOT of strings, but on problem start making that

[shtepsell 0]

On 01.12.2017 at 6:39 PM, miragae said:

I saw a great idea of how a game can be translated when fans are willing enough.

https://www.transifex.com/wildfire-games/0ad/

0AD, a free open source game, externalized their strings to one file and put it on transifex, which allowed for community (including me ) to translate them  The only work to be done by devs is to externalize them.

 

also there couple opensource alternatives

[miragae 4]

No more dev responses, so I'll take that as a no.

[Humpf 4]

To be honest, and being only self centered, I don't care about localization. No matter which game, I rather have it in english than in my native language. Mainly because the translations for my native language (PT) are done as PT-BR and not PT-PT.

Removing the self centered, having a game that has several localizations, allow for a bigger audience, mainly those that don't speak english.

 

If the goal is to try to increase the fan base, then yes go for localization. But, it's necessary to keep in mind that localization will bring the need to create specific non-english chat rooms, some won't be able to speak in english.

 

Not for nor against this, simply neutral.