RavenLure

Clay.......

42 posts in this topic

Clay..... Need I say more?? :huh: I mean really   hundreds of lemons spells  special containers,, I will need a amphora just to put my goo of a brain in...  really can we have an up dated version.. a more viable and more doable  ,than Transmutation liquid ? It is even a PITA to spell... 

 

Not to mention some may not have access to lemons or high quality ones.. or know of a priest or priestess who can do a good cast.. which may cost them if they do not know one personally or have an alt who can.... then that is not a guarantee success...Can we all re think this and come up with a better solution.....:blink:

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What is the problem realy? What is even suggested here?

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10 minutes ago, RavenLure said:

Clay..... Need I say more?? :huh:

Yes... I don't know whats happening

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10 minutes ago, Chlodovech said:

What is the problem realy? What is even suggested here?

Oh please.. give  me a break did you NOT read my second paragraph that it may be harder for some people to accomplish..... if you are here to cause drama then please use the  X on the top of the  browser.. * no more responses to you.*

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Listen... if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.. I want ideas...

 

There are many others out there  who may have issues with accomplishing this task of getting rid of unwanted clay on their deeds...to some it would be down right impossible but the location is good enough that they are there.. but want rid of the clay or most of it..

 

NOW all will be ignored by me if they do not have anything constructive to say.. there are a few that go around who are post only negative stuff..  what i have to say is Knock it off.

 

 ONLY CONSTRUCTIVE POSTS PLEASE.. WITH IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS

 

all others will be ignored by me.

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For some reason the current system of getting rid of clay tiles is too hard for this person.

 

You need to apply effort or pay someone to do effort for you. (or don't deed on top a massive clay deposit)

 

-1

 

Edited by JakeRivers
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1 minute ago, JakeRivers said:

For some reason the current system of getting rid of clay tiles is too hard for this person.

 

You need to apply effort or pay someone to do effort for you. (or don't deed on top a massive clay deposit)

 

-1

 

some do not have the money to do it. I think there is a better way.. surely...

 

 you know I never under stood the  -  and  + things with numbers.. LOL  you disagree so what just say that numbers are  well just that numbers not expressions of how one feels.. in my opinion

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You are asking for an easier way to wipe out vast amounts of clay.

 

There is a system in place to achieve this already.

 

If you do not want to put in the effort to remove the clay, find a new place to deed or pay someone to remove it for you, those are your current options.

 

The -1 is a down vote on your suggestion as your suggestion is nothing more than a 'its too hard I don't want to do it' post.

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5 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

You are asking for an easier way to wipe out vast amounts of clay.

 

There is a system in place to achieve this already.

 

If you do not want to put in the effort to remove the clay, find a new place to deed or pay someone to remove it for you, those are your current options.

 

The -1 is a down vote on your suggestion as your suggestion is nothing more than a 'its too hard I don't want to do it' post.

Thank you for your opinion.... but I would like to see another way in place..

those are NOT my only options.. my third one is what I am doing now.. trying to bring about change. Why are people so resistant to change..

 

down vote I find that some what comical but ok that is your opinion as well so be it.

 

Opinions are just that opinions not truths and every one has an opinion..  and no I am not going to let up on this because I like my opinion better. LOL so there :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well until this feature came out, there was zero way to get rid of clay: https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Transmutation_liquid_(Feature)

 

They made it harder to remove than create for a reason, reason being so folks don't make barrels of remover and go around removing resource tiles all over the place.

 

This system works well and despite what you claim is actually fairly easy to use.

 

So yes I have an opinion and I will post it each time someone makes a bad suggestion.

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1 hour ago, RavenLure said:

I think there is a better way.. surely...

 

Yes there is a better way to create and remove clay but it will never happen in WO. On *some* WU servers you can add or remove clay on *deed tiles* by activating a piece of dirt, rclicking the clay tile and the clay tile will change to dirt. The opposite can also be done, as well as converting/removing tar and peat. A highly repulsive concept for WO though since you can already do the exact same thing in 100x the amount of time along a circuitous route that may or may not succeed. Laziness or time=nothing accomplishments will not be tolerated here! Please do not be a bad influence with these rebellious thoughts.....

 

=Ayes=

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You have some misconceptions about the system.

Yes, you do need a priest, but not one to make a "good cast"...any blessing will do and it virtually always succeeds.

Still, that they could do away with in my opinion, but everything else is okay. The only thing that's up to luck is how long it will take, and that "luck" is influenced by your natural substance skill, but sinking enough liquid into a tile will transmute it eventually.

 

I'm not a fan of the JakeRivers-Approach of categorically dismissing everything on the basis of another solution existing (even if the existing solution is made out to be the problem), but in this case the existing solution doesn't have that big issues apart of the need for blessing. Transmuting tiles that are barely affected by terraforming and thus can be harvested almost indefinitely should be hard to change. We can talk about the amount of "points" that need to be sunk into a tile to make that happen, but that's the furthest I'd go without a good reason to fundamentally change the system.

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4 hours ago, RavenLure said:

Oh please.. give  me a break did you NOT read my second paragraph that it may be harder for some people to accomplish..... if you are here to cause drama then please use the  X on the top of the  browser.. * no more responses to you.*

Yes I read that but all you are saying is implying that the reader knows what you are talking about and you only complain but dont actualy do a solid suggestion. Besides your perceived problem is not a problem. Not everything needs to be easy and if you dont like clay there is realy lots of places without clay near in Wurm so there is absolutly no reason to complain about clay.

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1 hour ago, Flubb said:

 Transmuting tiles that are barely affected by terraforming and thus can be harvested almost indefinitely should be hard to change.

 

I think my problem with that statement is the almost indefinite harvesting. That seems -odd- to me. For one thing, it isn't real, and affects immersion. For another thing, one of the primary attractions/features of Wurm is terraforming, and anything that makes that nearly impossible is in a way game-breaking and self-contradictory.

 

I realize almost indefinite harvesting is a "resource depletion prevention" system, in line with trees growing (real), veins falling (not real), but clearly it's causing downstream issues.

 

Any other reason beside running out of resources that clay, tar, etc. don't follow the normal digging rules? If not, then I'd consider making things like tar and clay removable, just like dirt and sand, and add new ways for them to be reformed, say:

 

"Tar bubbles up from the depths" (new tar tile randomly forming)

"Sedimentary clay has collected on the shore" (new clay tile randomly forming on a shoreline)

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

 

I think my problem with that statement is the almost indefinite harvesting. That seems -odd- to me. For one thing, it isn't real, and affects immersion. For another thing, one of the primary attractions/features of Wurm is terraforming, and anything that makes that nearly impossible is in a way game-breaking and self-contradictory.

 

I realize almost indefinite harvesting is a "resource depletion prevention" system, in line with trees growing (real), veins falling (not real), but clearly it's causing downstream issues.

 

Any other reason beside running out of resources that clay, tar, etc. don't follow the normal digging rules? If not, then I'd consider making things like tar and clay removable, just like dirt and sand, and add new ways for them to be reformed, say:

 

"Tar bubbles up from the depths" (new tar tile randomly forming)

"Sedimentary clay has collected on the shore" (new clay tile randomly forming on a shoreline)

 

I agree with the "downstream issues" part, but it's a price that comes at a cost for something else, and that's reliable sources for big amounts of resources. Big building projects, which are another huge feature and past time for Wurmians, would be heavily hampered by such finecky clay tiles. So where do you want the tedium to occur? The occasional clay tile that needs removing, or at gathering the lifeblood of all the big building projects? I'd prefer the clay tiles to be more stable as they are now as it's not just a "depletion prevention" as you can see, in which case, they are unfortunately put in this place where removing or creating them should not be done in a single action, it doesn't exactly feel right. I think as it stands, terraforming will have to take that hit. (And I do agree it is quite a hit it's taking, but it's all a bit more interconnected than you make out.)

 

Let's entertain the idea anyway for a bit. For instance, if they're easy to remove, make them easy to create: reduce that amount of liquid needed to create clay tiles that would be lowered by every 10th action (10 clays -> 20kg, as much as a dirt or sand weighs being dug up and changing a corner.). But that'll neccessitate transmuation liquid for a quite common task, while it was clearly intended to be seldom used, and I don't see that change happening without overwhelming support of the community. Which I would bet on it will not get.

 

Hence I propose removing the distinction between active and passive liquid, as that doesn't really blend with the "effort aspect" of the liquids. A bless always succeeds and costs 10 favor, which regenerates so quickly that sacrifices are not neccessary at all, even with the multiple blessings needed to transmute a tile. That's not "neccessary effort", it's hardly any effort, it's just a key to something that doesn't appear to have a reason to be locked, and with that removed I think you can hardly call it nearly impossible.

Edited by Flubb
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5 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

 

They made it harder to remove than create for a reason, reason being so folks don't make barrels of remover and go around removing resource tiles all over the place.

 

 

See, if there was an easier way to add and remove the resource tiles, it would not matter that people "go around removing the resource tiles all over the place".  People who need these resources will just be able to create another resource tile close to their deed (or on their deed) and play on happily.  It is like the bees.  When everyone thought they were "rare" and scarce as a resource, people went around camping them and putting fences around them and even (over-)charged others to find them.  When it became apparent that bees are everywhere and easy to obtain, it became a joyful part of Wurm without the competition and unpleasantness. 

 

We had to build a bridge on top of some raised clay tiles.  We tried converting it to dirt but failed several times, so now we just won't convert those tiles, and even if the bridge poofs one day, the raised clay tiles will still sit there, an eyesore to the community.  Clay is not easy to dig down and not easy to travel on.  It is difficult to change and it is unfair to say "this is the way it is so suck it up".  If it is made easier to deal with and easier to change or convert back to clay, there won't be any dramas.

 

+1

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21 minutes ago, Fairyshine said:

We tried converting it to dirt but failed several times

 

Not trying to be a ######, but I'm stil confused as to how you "fail" at that. Was transmutation liquid based on chance at that time? Because that's not how it works right now for sure. (And thank god they changed it if that's what it was.)

Edited by shakys
Moderation Edit

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-1, deed somewhere else. Also I don't like your attitude.

Edited by Hula_Girl
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6 minutes ago, Hula_Girl said:

-1, deed somewhere else. Also I don't like your attitude.

 

The feeling is mutual. :P

 

2 hours ago, Flubb said:

 

I agree with the "downstream issues" part, but it's a price that comes at a cost for something else, and that's reliable sources for big amounts of resources. Big building projects, which are another huge feature and past time for Wurmians, would be heavily hampered by such finecky clay tiles. So where do you want the tedium to occur? The occasional clay tile that needs removing, or at gathering the lifeblood of all the big building projects? I'd prefer the clay tiles to be more stable as they are now as it's not just a "depletion prevention" as you can see, in which case, they are unfortunately put in this place where removing or creating them should not be done in a single action, it doesn't exactly feel right. I think as it stands, terraforming will have to take that hit. (And I do agree it is quite a hit it's taking, but it's all a bit more interconnected than you make out.)

 

Big building projects are a big deal, no question, and this is clearly a fundamental balancing question. I tend to dislike exceptions, though, and if it were me, I would make clay work like dirt and sand, and balance from there.

 

Yes, it's all interconnected, but I would be optimizing for consistency and immersion. My personal inclination would be to make terraforming tiles require more than simply dropping a dirt on a sand. Ideally, if you really wanted to change a tile, you would need to dig out sand or whatever down to the rockline or water line, and then fill in with something else. No free lunches by dropping a sand on a dirt tile, and then getting lots of sand (or vice versa).

 

That would be pretty difficult terraforming, but realistic, and not impossible. The priestly concoctions would then make more sense, because you'd be avoiding digging out an entire tile. That would make for an interesting choice: transmutate, or dig out the tile, and interesting choices make for good gameplay.

 

Even more realistic would be to have more layers in the tiles. We already have water and rocklines; I wonder if a topsoil line could be added. This could allow for clay between rock and topsoil, so you'd dig dirt a ways, hit clay, dig clay a ways, and hit rock. Not entirely sure how to implement something like that, but it would be an interesting challenge. :)

 

(And we really need an ice line, for snow-caps!)

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You didn't post a suggestion, this is a suggestion thread.
But i did empathise, the north highway from my deed will never see cats eyes because there's 20 clay tiles in the way. (triple that because it's diagonal)

my suggestion is make cats eyes plantable on flat clay

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Build a bridge over the clay section, Steve.

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Something requiring effort and skill to do does not inherently mean it's flawed. 

 

Addition and removal of these tiles was always intended to be a system that required these two things, as well as time.

If you have low skill, more liquid will be required, making this one of the few systems that low ql can be circumvented with more materials.

 

Or just dont deed on massive clay areas

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Something requiring effort and skill to do does not inherently mean it's flawed. 

 

Addition and removal of these tiles was always intended to be a system that required these two things, as well as time.

If you have low skill, more liquid will be required, making this one of the few systems that low ql can be circumvented with more materials.

 

Or just dont deed on massive clay areas

It is actually not just for deeding.  It is also for building roads next to oceans, or having clay on your deed, or for raised tiles of clay which needs to be lowered, or for bridges which require land masses to connect the sections which happen to be on a clay tile which is then raised and cannot be paved. 

 

I understand that skill and time and mats are needed for most things in Wurm, I guess many people don't have the time or the skill or the mats and then it comes down to money, which many people also don't have.  It is sometimes not about time or skills or mats, or money, sometimes it is just a request to look at how difficult it is and perhaps make it easier (as opposed to the stock standard type approach to make things harder instead.)

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Get sickle, get lemon sprouts, plant lemon trees.

Get a large cart, a large crate, travel to clay patch dig it up.

Simples :wub:

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