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Roccandil

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54 minutes ago, Hailene said:

 

You're forgetting the whole saccing mechanic. It requires even more attention if you have a battery saccing items for a constant stream of casts.

 

The way you play a priest is AFK friendly. It doesn't have to be that way.

 

I'm not going to sac for hours. :P I just have too many things I "need" to do and can do, and varying things up is more interesting, anyhow.

 

Bottom line: my priests have very little to offer by way of foreground play. I do want to turn them into fighters, but that's low on the priority list.

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So you play a priest afk...even though there is clearly viable and intended ways go play them more actively.

 

And then accuse priest play as idle gameplay?

 

Just to get the record straight.

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43 minutes ago, Hailene said:

So you play a priest afk...even though there is clearly viable and intended ways go play them more actively.

 

And then accuse priest play as idle gameplay?

 

Just to get the record straight.

 

Really? :P Where is this "we're-supposed-to-play-priests-as-mains" rule written? Is it a Wurm-shattering revelation that priests are almost always alts? That's the culture of the game!

 

And how can you seriously suggest that the dedicated priest mechanics -don't- reward idle gameplay? Faith gain is entirely cooldown based, and without it, a priest is nothing. Channeling is the only other critical priest skill, and I get plenty of channeling just waiting for natural favor regain and then doing a quick SB-boosted session.

 

Sure, I could grind channeling for hours like a main, but why? And it's one skill. Just one. Crafters get how many to choose from? Priests just get to cast spells, and the very nature of spell-casting is limited, both by favor, and by items to enchant. How many useful items can a priest create themselves to enchant? Lockpicks, logs, and lumps, maybe?

 

Priests have one unique ability, requiring long cooldowns to develop, and PvP spells aside, that ability is almost entirely dependent on crafters to support. And, no other mechanics are priest-specific. Farming, meditation, chopping: none of them are priest mechanics.

 

Are you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian? Or, is this "an Emperor has no clothes" moment, and you don't like me pointing out the obvious truth about priests? Priests are exceedingly effective and efficient played primarily as idle alts while someone foreground plays a crafter/fighter.

 

If I were to graph my foreground gameplay, it would be brief spikes on my priests with long sessions on my main, and that is thoroughly encouraged by the existing game mechanics. For whatever reason, it's been designed into the game.

 

It's -normal-.

 

Sheesh. :P

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

 

Really? :P Where is this "we're-supposed-to-play-priests-as-mains" rule written? Is it a Wurm-shattering revelation that priests are almost always alts? That's the culture of the game!

Priests are not mains the majority of the time, but saying everybody treats priests as an "alt" as in alternate account may be completely off. Priests help crafters and crafters help priests. Yes, civilization does not require priests, but to advance in a quicker fashion, priest are neccessary. Whether its Woa to get things done faster, Coc to gain skill faster, Courier to avoid actually traveling to mail items, weapon enchants to kill faster etc. For a person who only prems 1 character at a time, I would not say my crafter is what i focus the most on at all any more.

 

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Sure, I could grind channeling for hours like a main, but why? And it's one skill. Just one. Crafters get how many to choose from? Priests just get to cast spells, and the very nature of spell-casting is limited, both by favor, and by items to enchant. How many useful items can a priest create themselves to enchant? Lockpicks, logs, and lumps, maybe?

Grind channeling to get good casts. The spells are EXTREMELY helpful, Im pretty sure less people would play if the enchants i listed before didnt exist. Priest themselves can make nearly all bulk items (some can't dig, mine, or cut wood), they only can't make things like support beams. It is not about how much the priest can make, Its what they can do with what a crafter makes. Crafters can make a wide variety of tools, and priest can enhance those tools. Also, priest can fight and farm, those two things alone can take up the majority of a person's day, and is highly beneficial. End game materials are obtained through fighting in rifts, No longer need to get skill to harvest the material. After getting materials they just get crafters to make it.

 

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Priests have one unique ability, requiring long cooldowns to develop, and PvP spells aside, that ability is almost entirely dependent on crafters to support. And, no other mechanics are priest-specific. Farming, meditation, chopping: none of them are priest mechanics.

Crafters have one unique ability, requiring long grind sessions to develop, but enhancing their ability IS entirely dependent on priest supports. Ain't no way a crafter is gonna put a spell on an item, but a priest can make some items. Infact, a priest can make their own pickaxe at 1ql and cast coc on it. Odds are that 1ql coc pickaxe will be worth more than a 70ql pickaxe (especially after impalong lol). Priest are only able to cast spells yes, But crafters are only able to continue and improve. Those are the unique abilties of both of them, and I would say they are both equally important.

 

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Priests are exceedingly effective and efficient played primarily as idle alts while someone foreground plays a crafter/fighter.

All you are doing is gaining faith that way and extremely small bits of channel skill. Please tell me your definition of being efficient, because I would find it more efficient to bulk make favor items and occasionally pray while bulk improving to grind on my crafter.

 

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

If I were to graph my foreground gameplay, it would be brief spikes on my priests with long sessions on my main, and that is thoroughly encouraged by the existing game mechanics. For whatever reason, it's been designed into the game.

Well then you can state that priest is idle gaming for you. I only prem one character at a time. When my priest is premed, I am usually not afk. Its either favor-making/fighting/farming/channel/extra-stuff.

 

You are correct in saying that the way you play makes priest idle gaming, but saying that priest in general is idle gaming is simply incorrect. A person can make 5 prem crafter alts and train their meditation to get enchanted tiles quickly. All that would be is "idle-gaming" but that does not justify crafters as idle gamers. 

 

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Are you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian? Or, is this "an Emperor has no clothes" moment, and you don't like me pointing out the obvious truth about priests?

My vocabulary sucks, and Im too lazy to type those words in google. But saying that priest are idle gaming is not an obvious truth, and I don't like the fact that you are stating that. Wurm does not have interesting videos or good reviews to go off of, and a good amount of people look at the forums to see what a game is like. I checked videos and the forums to see what everquest landscape would be like, and all I saw were negative comments on ingame stuff and a small group of people disagreeing. Of course, I didnt play the game and it seemed bad by most the comments. But I am playing this game and what you are saying does not reflect the game AT ALL. Everything you say only reflects your own decisions. It is obvious that you only have a priest to gain faith, but the game play for priest are, and ill say it probably a 5th time (not keeping count), NOT IDLE GAMING. The last thing I want to see is a newcomer getting the wrong idea of a video game because of the ignorance of another player.

 

If you choose to make it boring, then state "I'm sitting around doing nothing, and it is no fun" rather than "The game told me to do nothing, and it is not fun."

 

... PRIEST ARE NOT IDLE GAMING; FAITH GRINDING IS IDLE GAMING

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If all you do on your priest is pray and grind channeling, you aren't playing your priest to it's full potential.

 

My priest is more than a caster, she's my slave.  She cooks, farms, makes bricks, string/squares, nails/sheets/lumps/rivets, breeds animals and does pretty much anything that Wargasm would rather not waste time doing.

 

If you're that bored doing things yourself, pay silver to have someone else do it, or go play WU, where you can bot/macro to your heart's content.

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4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Where is this "we're-supposed-to-play-priests-as-mains" rule written? Is it a Wurm-shattering revelation that priests are almost always alts? T

 

No where. And I didn't say that.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

And how can you seriously suggest that the dedicated priest mechanics -don't- reward idle gameplay?

 

I didn't and I'm not.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Faith gain is entirely cooldown based, and without it, a priest is nothing.

 

Faith is an easy skill to max out. A decent sermon group means you can hit 100 faith in less than a month.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Sure, I could grind channeling for hours like a main, but why?

 

Like any skill. So you can reap the benefits of having high skills.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

I get plenty of channeling just waiting for natural favor regain and then doing a quick SB-boosted session.

 

Plenty is subjective. Even with 95 channeling I cry about my casts. Using a 70 or 80 channeling priest would just increase the frustration.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Priests have one unique ability, requiring long cooldowns to develop

 

Faith is just a tiny roadbump. Channeling is the real monster to tackle.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Are you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian? Or, is this "an Emperor has no clothes" moment, and you don't like me pointing out the obvious truth about priests?

 

You're basically doing a one man show where your arguments have no real bearing on what I'm actually saying.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Priests are exceedingly effective and efficient played primarily as idle alts while someone foreground plays a crafter/fighter.

 

It depends on how you measure effectiveness. If we're talking about sheer output, then, no it's actually quite inefficient. If we're talking about using concentration, then, sure, it's effective. If we're talking about utilization rate of premium time, then it looks pretty ineffective, too.

 

But we all have different priorities, so one's metric for effectiveness will wildly change one's perspective on a playstyle.

Also, while I was leveling my priest's channeling, I made sure to play all three of my characters. I continued to grind up my main's skills, while saccing on my battery alt, and casting on my priest.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

If I were to graph my foreground gameplay, it would be brief spikes on my priests with long sessions on my main, and that is thoroughly encouraged by the existing game mechanics. For whatever reason, it's been designed into the game.

 

I wonder if you are being obtuse on purpose just to try my patience?

Look, it is within the game mechanics to play a priest afk. That's where the favor regen comes in (though not too afk since favor regen drops off as you gain more favor). It's within the game mechanics to play a priest actively. You can choose to use one or the other.

 

You can't just pick one and go "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY THE GAME!" In an FPS you can often grab a sniper rifle and snipe people. You wouldn't accuse the game of being only a sniping game while there are pistols, shotguns, and assault rifles, too. You can pick your playstyle.

You can grab your "shotgun" and afk all you want just like how it's equally  viable to grab a "sniper rifle" and actively play your priest.

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Ironically, you all are defending priests from your own negative connotations, not mine. :) I don't have a problem with letting priests sit idle waiting on cooldowns or favor regen; as it happens, I -like- that. (It's very low stress.)

 

I just find it odd that you all smear any hint of QoL click reduction as "idle gaming", when, quite obviously, and without question, the game mechanics are biased toward playing priests as idle alts. Sure, priests can be played as mains, but that's swimming against the current, so to speak.

 

Personally, I think the inherent mechanics bias against priests is a bad thing, but based on you all's arguments, I guess you're happy with the current priestly limitations and lack of choices.

 

Seriously, do any of you dispute that most priests are alts? Perhaps I've completely misread the evidence of the forums and every priest I've ever seen in game as well as the evidence of the game mechanics themselves. Perhaps. :P

 

But I don't think so. :)

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Something else on channel grinding. Like I said, channeling can certainly be played as a main, for hours of mindnumbing fun, but that's merely one skill. Comparing channel grinding to a crafter is imprecise. Rather, it would be more accurate to compare a channeler to a crafter who has ground only -one- impable skill like, say, weaponsmithing. That's a fairer comparison.

 

But while priests only have the -one- unique skill to grind, how many skills can crafters choose from? I know that on Epic, since I played by myself for so long, I worked on everything that could be useful to me: shieldsmithing, blacksmithing, armor smithing, carpentry, mining, and so on. Skill/speed enchants were "would-be-nices", but hardly essential to gameplay.

 

Crafters have almost everything to choose from, and can easily survive without priests. Conversely, priests have nothing unique to choose between, and most would be near-useless if crafters didn't exist.

 

That lack of choice for priests is to me a problem in game design, that has predictably resulted in the "priest alt" culture.

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An idle or incremental game is one in which you're working to increase some number. As you progress the number goes up by itself, faster and faster, until the number becomes meaningless and you quit the game.

 

In wurm the numbers go up slower and slower the more you progress, and there is no way to make them go up by themselves. Eventually people tend to tire of the game when they feel they've consumed all of the content.

 

Your suggestions for automation and fewer clicks would move the game more towards the idle game genre. I suspect you're projecting your hidden love of idle games into an imagined hatred on our part. Personally, I love both types of games, but I'd prefer to keep that kind of mechanic out of Wurm.

 

If you ignore everything else in this post, please stop calling Wurm an idle game. It shares little in common with that genre.

Edited by thorgot
Missed a word
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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Ironically, you all are defending priests from your own negative connotations, not mine. :) I don't have a problem with letting priests sit idle waiting on cooldowns or favor regen; as it happens, I -like- that. (It's very low stress.)

 

Yeah. You're not reading my posts, are you?

I'm out.

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2 hours ago, thorgot said:

If you ignore everything else in this post, please stop calling Wurm an idle game. It shares little in common with that genre.

 

I'm merely "reflecting" the idle game comments from others. Idle game wasn't a term I used in my original suggestion(s), and my reflection is simply based on the functional content of people's posts, not any external official definitions.

 

If nothing else, I very much want the interface to support the one-click queue-filling capability of the Crafting Window. In my mind, I've boiled all my automation suggestions down to that. I want to one-click fill my prayer queue, or a woodcutting queue, or an imping queue.

 

I see no encroachment there from the "idle game" genre, however defined, and if eliminating a few clicks from the queue-filling process is so dangerous, we're already there.

 

Nevertheless, in my view, this interface-clicking question is noise-level in proportion to the breadth and depth of Wurm's actual gameplay. Making the interface a little more physically efficient can't fundamentally alter Wurm; it will only make the core gameplay more approachable.

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2 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

Yeah. You're not reading my posts, are you?

I'm out.

 

Whether or not you post in my suggestion threads is up to you, but if I'm going to discuss my suggestions, it will be on my terms, not yours.

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36 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

it will be on my terms, not yours.

 

If you actually want something constructive to come out of your threads you actually have to discuss what the other person is saying.

You can put up all the strawmen you want and knock'em all down, but there is a reason why your suggestions are universally disliked. Even sound ones like mapping multiple actions to a single key.  Check out

 

Almost everyone upped it.

 

Your abrasive personality, refusal to view anything beyond your own point of view,propensity to not actually read what people write, and make "counter arguments" against fictional points, makes suggestions from you largely futile. And I know you won't care, but I can imagine this only negatively affects your social interactions (if any) you have in real life as well.

 

See you around.

Edited by Hailene
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6 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Ironically, you all are defending priests from your own negative connotations, not mine. :) I don't have a problem with letting priests sit idle waiting on cooldowns or favor regen; as it happens, I -like- that. (It's very low stress.)

The favor regen from idling is barely beneficial when casting enchants, and followers have cool downs just as well as priests. I have only seen favor regen useful for when I grind a skill that doesnt require favor and I can get a free cast (takes a long time though, not ideal for casting), or when I go out on a hunting trip and would like to cure my wounds because an animal thought it would be nice to hit one spot OVER and OVER. Very low stress, very low gains. If you like that then continue. But remember that treating priest as an idle character is your choice.

6 hours ago, Roccandil said:

I just find it odd that you all smear any hint of QoL click reduction as "idle gaming", when, quite obviously, and without question, the game mechanics are biased toward playing priests as idle alts. Sure, priests can be played as mains, but that's swimming against the current, so to speak.

The game mechanics allow for occasional free casts, not maximum efficiency for sitting around and doing nothing. Nobody said priests are main accounts, but you are behaving like they are not as useful as crafters. I'll put it in a simpler way for you.... Imagine a world where people only want two story houses... There are people that know how to make the first story, and other people know how to make the second story. Those who know how to make the second story don't know how to make the first story. BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT. The end result required is a 2 story house, it does not matter that the 2nd story makers can't even start a house to begin with, because the 1st story makers can't make the final result. This would be an analogy for priest and crafters. Priest need the items, crafters can make the items. Occasionally, priest do not even NEED the crafters, because a lot of tools don't require continuing to make. Yes, a lot of people just play as crafters, but when you have time to play 2 accounts or flop between two, you end up realizing a priest can do a lot more.

6 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Personally, I think the inherent mechanics bias against priests is a bad thing, but based on you all's arguments, I guess you're happy with the current priestly limitations and lack of choices. Seriously, do any of you dispute that most priests are alts? Perhaps I've completely misread the evidence of the forums and every priest I've ever seen in game as well as the evidence of the game mechanics themselves. Perhaps. :P

 

But I don't think so. :)

You only see a small amount of the wurm population through the forums. But most people who want to be self sufficient make a crafter and a priest. Those who try their best to do more than 1 task would have the priest grind other skills possible. While the crafters sleep, priest can get high skill in something and get that done. while priest sleep crafters can do their stuff. Or just play both. And I do not dispute that most priest are alts, but that does not mean thats the way to get everything out of a priest account.

6 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Something else on channel grinding. Like I said, channeling can certainly be played as a main, for hours of mindnumbing fun, but that's merely one skill. Comparing channel grinding to a crafter is imprecise. Rather, it would be more accurate to compare a channeler to a crafter who has ground only -one- impable skill like, say, weaponsmithing. That's a fairer comparison.

 

But while priests only have the -one- unique skill to grind, how many skills can crafters choose from? I know that on Epic, since I played by myself for so long, I worked on everything that could be useful to me: shieldsmithing, blacksmithing, armor smithing, carpentry, mining, and so on. Skill/speed enchants were "would-be-nices", but hardly essential to gameplay.

 

Crafters have almost everything to choose from, and can easily survive without priests. Conversely, priests have nothing unique to choose between, and most would be near-useless if crafters didn't exist.

 

That lack of choice for priests is to me a problem in game design, that has predictably resulted in the "priest alt" culture.

I think 100% more xp gain, completing more tasks in a day, curing animals of disease in a snap, instant tree growth, MAILING, are way more than "would-be-nices". You can spend forever doing all those tasks though if that pleases you. Also priest have more than just channel, theres is also preaching (which sucks, but its there). And you are able to split the skills up amoung 1 priest and 1 crafter. What would be easier, raising all useful skills on a crafter and then have priest do channel?? Or raise every imp related and gather skill on crafter (woodcutting/mining/digging), and every gather skill possible on priest along with the imp-less skills. Splitting up the skills so priest do what they can and crafters do what priest can't make it have a lot more sense. Try telling us priest do not have enough gameplay after getting every imp-less skills to 90 (excluding stoopid ones like puppetry). getting 90 in foraging and botanizing should be enough to reconsider that. The only issue I have with priests is the fact that they can't make their own altars unless their jewelry smithing and silver/gold happens to be laying around. If there was a spell to cast misty statue of your god for a fixed time of 2 minutes for praying, that would make me happy. Would make it so a priest can journey while gaining faith rather than working in the deed while gaining faith.

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10 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

If you actually want something constructive to come out of your threads you actually have to discuss what the other person is saying.

You can put up all the strawmen you want and knock'em all down, but there is a reason why your suggestions are universally disliked. Even sound ones like mapping multiple actions to a single key.  Check out

 

Almost everyone upped it.

 

Your abrasive personality, refusal to view anything beyond your own point of view,propensity to not actually read what people write, and make "counter arguments" against fictional points, makes suggestions from you largely futile. And I know you won't care, but I can imagine this only negatively affects your social interactions (if any) you have in real life as well.

 

See you around.

 

If you're willing to downvote a suggestion you otherwise agree with, simply because of who offered it, that's your business.

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11 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

I'm merely "reflecting" the idle game comments from others. Idle game wasn't a term I used in my original suggestion(s), and my reflection is simply based on the functional content of people's posts, not any external official definitions.

 

On 12/18/2017 at 8:33 AM, Roccandil said:

And yes, priests are idle gaming. No question. :)

 

This after someone pointed out that the changes you were looking for were brought the game closer to being an idle game. Nobody but you has ever suggested Wurm is an idle game. So I'll ask again, now that you have done something you usually don't do and reread your own words: please don't call Wurm an idle game. It is not an idle game and shares little in common with that genre.

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6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

The favor regen from idling is barely beneficial when casting enchants, and followers have cool downs just as well as priests. I have only seen favor regen useful for when I grind a skill that doesnt require favor and I can get a free cast (takes a long time though, not ideal for casting), or when I go out on a hunting trip and would like to cure my wounds because an animal thought it would be nice to hit one spot OVER and OVER. Very low stress, very low gains. If you like that then continue. But remember that treating priest as an idle character is your choice.

 

Hmm. I've found natural favor regen very nice. Maybe it's an investment thing: I spend very little except time to get that favor, but that time I can use doing something else (including RL activities), and I don't mind waiting for a payoff.

 

So, from my perspective, that favor is almost entirely free, unlike favor from saccing.

 

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

The game mechanics allow for occasional free casts, not maximum efficiency for sitting around and doing nothing. Nobody said priests are main accounts, but you are behaving like they are not as useful as crafters. I'll put it in a simpler way for you.... Imagine a world where people only want two story houses... There are people that know how to make the first story, and other people know how to make the second story. Those who know how to make the second story don't know how to make the first story. BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT. The end result required is a 2 story house, it does not matter that the 2nd story makers can't even start a house to begin with, because the 1st story makers can't make the final result. This would be an analogy for priest and crafters. Priest need the items, crafters can make the items. Occasionally, priest do not even NEED the crafters, because a lot of tools don't require continuing to make. Yes, a lot of people just play as crafters, but when you have time to play 2 accounts or flop between two, you end up realizing a priest can do a lot more.

 

Most of the items my priest enchants she doesn't need; they are made by a crafter/fighter, for a crafter/fighter.

 

Again, maybe this is an Epic thing, but I want to grind all skills possible on my crafter/fighter for the sake of body stats. So while my priest -can- do more than just enchant, for the most part if I have time to spend locksmithing, digging, woodcutting, etc. I want to be doing that on my crafter/fighter if possible.

 

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

You only see a small amount of the wurm population through the forums. But most people who want to be self sufficient make a crafter and a priest. Those who try their best to do more than 1 task would have the priest grind other skills possible. While the crafters sleep, priest can get high skill in something and get that done. while priest sleep crafters can do their stuff. Or just play both. And I do not dispute that most priest are alts, but that does not mean thats the way to get everything out of a priest account.

 

No question that having two prem accounts and the double sleep bonus is a great way to be efficient. That isn't inherent to priests, though.

 

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

I think 100% more xp gain, completing more tasks in a day, curing animals of disease in a snap, instant tree growth, MAILING, are way more than "would-be-nices". You can spend forever doing all those tasks though if that pleases you.

 

I played months on Epic without needing any of that, and without ever seeing a priest. At that, the most game-changing enchantment for a lone survivor was LT; that meant hunting was no longer cotton-restrained, which meant I could skill up fighting much faster.

 

But again, the key word is "faster". Yes, without a priest, some things will be slower, even much slower. But my experience is that in a low-pop environment, priests are expendable. I would much, much rather be a crafter/fighter than a priest in a largely empty world, and that's due to the inherent priest mechanics.

 

I personally wish that wasn't true, however.

 

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

 

 

 

Also priest have more than just channel, theres is also preaching (which sucks, but its there). And you are able to split the skills up amoung 1 priest and 1 crafter. What would be easier, raising all useful skills on a crafter and then have priest do channel?? Or raise every imp related and gather skill on crafter (woodcutting/mining/digging), and every gather skill possible on priest along with the imp-less skills. Splitting up the skills so priest do what they can and crafters do what priest can't make it have a lot more sense. Try telling us priest do not have enough gameplay after getting every imp-less skills to 90 (excluding stoopid ones like puppetry). getting 90 in foraging and botanizing should be enough to reconsider that. The only issue I have with priests is the fact that they can't make their own altars unless their jewelry smithing and silver/gold happens to be laying around. If there was a spell to cast misty statue of your god for a fixed time of 2 minutes for praying, that would make me happy. Would make it so a priest can journey while gaining faith rather than working in the deed while gaining faith.

 

Preaching may be unique, but it's really part of the faith gain mechanic. I guess you could grind it for the sake of grinding it, but it's not really an interesting gameplay decision.

 

Again, though, I want all possible skills ground on my main, due to needing as high stats as possible for fighting. On Freedom, I can see where that wouldn't be an issue, and so you have more leeway to split skills between alts.

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16 minutes ago, thorgot said:

 

 

This after someone pointed out that the changes you were looking for were brought the game closer to being an idle game. Nobody but you has ever suggested Wurm is an idle game. So I'll ask again, now that you have done something you usually don't do and reread your own words: please don't call Wurm an idle game. It is not an idle game and shares little in common with that genre.

 

Well, yes, I pointed out that if my suggestions were idle gaming, then certain mechanics in Wurm are also idle gaming.

 

I stand by that. :)

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Just now, Roccandil said:

 

Well, yes, I pointed out that if my suggestions were idle gaming, then certain mechanics in Wurm are also idle gaming.

 

I stand by that. :)

Ok, you clearly don't understand and refuse to consider even the possibility of being incorrect. I'm not going to waste any more of your time.

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2 hours ago, thorgot said:

Ok, you clearly don't understand and refuse to consider even the possibility of being incorrect. I'm not going to waste any more of your time.

 

I'll spell it out:

 

- If my suggestions were "idle gaming", then idle gaming is already prevalent in Wurm. That is, if one-click queue-filling is idle gaming, do we not have that already?

- If idle gaming is -not- prevalent in Wurm, then my suggestions are not idle gaming. That is, if one-click queue filling is not idle gaming, then my suggestions are not idle gaming.

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4 hours ago, thorgot said:

Ok, you clearly don't understand and refuse to consider even the possibility of being incorrect. I'm not going to waste any more of your time.

*Pats back* I'll waste my time for this. My job is a math/physics/chemistry tutor for college students, and I have had people who took over a week to understand 1 small section of a textbook.

 

2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

- If my suggestions were "idle gaming", then idle gaming is already prevalent in Wurm. That is, if one-click queue-filling is idle gaming, do we not have that already?

The idle gaming you are describing is playing as inefficient as possible. Spending 20 minutes doing absolutely nothing, and then praying. Such a technique would only set you up to be able to cast spells, but not well, and you fail to see how much time can be saved when tasks are split between a crafter and a priest. Your body stats on your main should not be effected by your priest working as well. Last I checked, wurm has plenty of wood, stone/metal, and soil. working along with your priest should not cause a supreme deficit of any of these materials. One-click queue filling is already allowed last i check, Staff even said you can make a macro that presses EVERY button for imping at once to imp something (and found out what i did was a no-no lol, oops). This is not idle gaming, simply trading a series of quick clicks into 1 click. I don't have time to read this whole forum, but if your suggestion is to have one-click queue filling, then you should have a separate post. Many people, including me, see the title and assume its still the main topic.

2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

- If idle gaming is -not- prevalent in Wurm, then my suggestions are not idle gaming. That is, if one-click queue filling is not idle gaming, then my suggestions are not idle gaming.

Then make a new post suggesting that 1 click can fill a whole queue. That way somebody, maybe several people, can show you how to make it work that way. It is a very simple task.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Hmm. I've found natural favor regen very nice. Maybe it's an investment thing: I spend very little except time to get that favor, but that time I can use doing something else (including RL activities), and I don't mind waiting for a payoff.

 

So, from my perspective, that favor is almost entirely free, unlike favor from saccing.

time = money, especially premium time. If you paid for a month of premium and decide to just have the character lay around just gaining faith and meager amounts of channeling, then congrats. Sadly that is nowhere near "almost entirely free". If you ONLY have time to raise your faith skill then this is understandable. But if you have time to just sit down and play wurm... you should be able to get 50 tools in a forge, organize them by imp tools and just imp 3 at a time. While that goes for 30ish seconds have the priest farm. Then while the priest farms go back to the crafter, and repeat. If you are a busy person then don't say the game consist of you simply standing there to gain faith, because there is way more.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Most of the items my priest enchants she doesn't need; they are made by a crafter/fighter, for a crafter/fighter.

Nobody needs to progress faster, but a lot of people would like to. My priest can use an enchanted grooming brush, bow, armor sets (plenty of them to mix match for style), fruit press, grind stone, butchering knife (I rather my priest hunt because of combat bonus), weapon, rake,shield, cotton (coc first aid up, dunno if works but i do it), fishing rod, sickle (forestry), pickaxe, clay or sand (for mortar, i forgot witch), stone chisel, meditation rug, press (lol jk who uses that), and keys. These are only the ones I can think of that work with coc/woa/weapon enchants. There are still the mailboxes that everybody uses, so mailbox is on the list. And even if the items are not needed, there are still casts that are super handy to speed the process of building a place in means other than woa. When I wanted oak trees and I didnt want to wait several days, I sacrificed square pieces of cloth to the gods and popped up those babies in a DAY. People in rifts get hurt extremely badly sometimes, A crafter could only do so much with cotton, but me? BOOM CURE, its fixed. Priest are even capable of repairing things crafters can't with mend. 

 

So cool, you make stuff and just give it to your crafter and spend all your time making him do the work. That does not mean Priest have nothing to do, it just means you choose to do nothing with your priest.

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Again, maybe this is an Epic thing, but I want to grind all skills possible on my crafter/fighter for the sake of body stats. So while my priest -can- do more than just enchant, for the most part if I have time to spend locksmithing, digging, woodcutting, etc. I want to be doing that on my crafter/fighter if possible.

Pretty sure this was covered in my second paragraph

 

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

1) I played months on Epic without needing any of that, and without ever seeing a priest. At that, the most game-changing enchantment for a lone survivor was LT; that meant hunting was no longer cotton-restrained, which meant I could skill up fighting much faster.

 

But again, the key word is "faster". Yes, without a priest, some things will be slower, even much slower.2) But my experience is that in a low-pop environment, priests are expendable.3) I would much, much rather be a crafter/fighter than a priest in a largely empty world, and that's due to the inherent priest mechanics.

1) I can play on wurm for years without food and water, And I won't die. My xp gain, movement speed, action speed would all be reduced, but I can still play like this.

2) What is the purpose of your priest anyway, It seems like you are gaining faith right now just to actually play on it later.

3) Cool, just remember what I said. Don't mislead anybody else who reads the forum by saying priest are idle gaming. Rather, say that you choose to not spend time on your priest, even though the game has plenty to offer. You of all people should understand the first impressions of wurm when going through the forum.

4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Again, though, I want all possible skills ground on my main, due to needing as high stats as possible for fighting. On Freedom, I can see where that wouldn't be an issue, and so you have more leeway to split skills between alts.

Again, then don't state that priest is idle gaming WITHOUT QUESTION. Priest simply improve via enchants while crafters improve via quality. Crafters can also continue. Everything else is shared between priest and crafters (excluding very few things)

 

 

Now odd are, you won't fully read my message, peek at a few words, and make a response. Allow me to increase the font here.

 

Priest can not be defined as idle-gaming characters. It is your choice to do nothing.

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5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

*Pats back* I'll waste my time for this. My job is a math/physics/chemistry tutor for college students, and I have had people who took over a week to understand 1 small section of a textbook.

 

The idle gaming you are describing is playing as inefficient as possible. Spending 20 minutes doing absolutely nothing, and then praying. Such a technique would only set you up to be able to cast spells, but not well, and you fail to see how much time can be saved when tasks are split between a crafter and a priest.

 

But -I'm- not doing nothing. :P I only have so much foreground bandwidth to devote to the game. Priest mechanics allows me to fire off background tasks while I foreground task something else. Parallel processing can be very efficient. :)

 

5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Your body stats on your main should not be effected by your priest working as well. Last I checked, wurm has plenty of wood, stone/metal, and soil. working along with your priest should not cause a supreme deficit of any of these materials.

 

Again, my limitation isn't resources, it's foreground processing time. If I'm going to spend foreground time grinding something like digging, I'll do it on my main.

 

5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

 

One-click queue filling is already allowed last i check, Staff even said you can make a macro that presses EVERY button for imping at once to imp something (and found out what i did was a no-no lol, oops). This is not idle gaming, simply trading a series of quick clicks into 1 click. I don't have time to read this whole forum, but if your suggestion is to have one-click queue filling, then you should have a separate post. Many people, including me, see the title and assume its still the main topic.

 

I understand, and if you'll look back in this thread, you'll see me narrow my suggestions into very specific queue-oriented suggestions (it may even have been you who triggered me to do that, I'd need to go burrow through the old posts to find out for sure! :P ).

 

I then realized exactly what you described; folks were still looking at the title/first post, and not my refined suggestions, so I created a new thread for them. I even requested that this thread be closed.

 

5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

Then make a new post suggesting that 1 click can fill a whole queue. That way somebody, maybe several people, can show you how to make it work that way. It is a very simple task.

 

If that's the case, then I see no reason why improving the interface to support that organically would be an issue.

 

5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

time = money, especially premium time. If you paid for a month of premium and decide to just have the character lay around just gaining faith and meager amounts of channeling, then congrats. Sadly that is nowhere near "almost entirely free".

 

My time is worth enough to me to pay extra so I can do more things in the game that I enjoy.

 

5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

If you ONLY have time to raise your faith skill then this is understandable. But if you have time to just sit down and play wurm... you should be able to get 50 tools in a forge, organize them by imp tools and just imp 3 at a time. While that goes for 30ish seconds have the priest farm. Then while the priest farms go back to the crafter, and repeat. If you are a busy person then don't say the game consist of you simply standing there to gain faith, because there is way more.

 

I can go eat a meal while my priest stands there regenning favor. :) I'm willing to pay for that. (Although, it really doesn't cost any more. I simply derive no benefit from leaving a premium crafter/fighting standing around.)

 

Also, I do switch back and forth between my main and my alts; in fact, my original thinking in posting this was to make that easier. I'm not a fan of intense clicking sessions. :P

 

5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

Nobody needs to progress faster, but a lot of people would like to. My priest can use an enchanted grooming brush, bow, armor sets (plenty of them to mix match for style), fruit press, grind stone, butchering knife (I rather my priest hunt because of combat bonus), weapon, rake,shield, cotton (coc first aid up, dunno if works but i do it), fishing rod, sickle (forestry), pickaxe, clay or sand (for mortar, i forgot witch), stone chisel, meditation rug, press (lol jk who uses that), and keys. These are only the ones I can think of that work with coc/woa/weapon enchants. There are still the mailboxes that everybody uses, so mailbox is on the list. And even if the items are not needed, there are still casts that are super handy to speed the process of building a place in means other than woa. When I wanted oak trees and I didnt want to wait several days, I sacrificed square pieces of cloth to the gods and popped up those babies in a DAY. People in rifts get hurt extremely badly sometimes, A crafter could only do so much with cotton, but me? BOOM CURE, its fixed. Priest are even capable of repairing things crafters can't with mend. 

 

So cool, you make stuff and just give it to your crafter and spend all your time making him do the work. That does not mean Priest have nothing to do, it just means you choose to do nothing with your priest.

 

To borrow your second story analogy, priests may be a good second story, but crafters are the first, and without a first story, a second story is meaningless. The reality of the game mechanics is that crafters come first, and priests build on what crafters do.

 

Priests can survive without crafters, sure. But the pressure of the game mechanics is against people playing that way.

 

5 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

Pretty sure this was covered in my second paragraph

 

1) I can play on wurm for years without food and water, And I won't die. My xp gain, movement speed, action speed would all be reduced, but I can still play like this.

2) What is the purpose of your priest anyway, It seems like you are gaining faith right now just to actually play on it later.

3) Cool, just remember what I said. Don't mislead anybody else who reads the forum by saying priest are idle gaming. Rather, say that you choose to not spend time on your priest, even though the game has plenty to offer. You of all people should understand the first impressions of wurm when going through the forum.

Again, then don't state that priest is idle gaming WITHOUT QUESTION. Priest simply improve via enchants while crafters improve via quality. Crafters can also continue. Everything else is shared between priest and crafters (excluding very few things)

 

 

Now odd are, you won't fully read my message, peek at a few words, and make a response. Allow me to increase the font here.

 

Priest can not be defined as idle-gaming characters. It is your choice to do nothing.

 

Sure, you can play a priest as a main, and I have no problem with that, but the game mechanics unquestionably promote playing priests as alts. That's reality. I get the impression you're blaming me for pointing that out, and if you want to do that, that's your business.

 

But from my perspective, it would be far more constructive to accept the problem inherent in the current mechanics, so that we can look at improving priest gameplay. As it is, your defense of the current priest mechanics is actually an obstacle to making things better for priests. (If playing a priest as a main is well-balanced now, why spend any time improving it?)

 

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You're wasting your time. He refuses to admit that there is at least two viable ways to get favor.

 

He refuses to sac and for some reason thinks that means passive generation is the only way to play priest.

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13 minutes ago, Hailene said:

You're wasting your time. He refuses to admit that there is at least two viable ways to get favor.

 

He refuses to sac and for some reason thinks that means passive generation is the only way to play priest.

 

Er, you're assuming facts not in evidence. :P I sac when I want/need to.

 

Also, I've repeatedly stated that priests can be played as mains, and I have no problem with that. The reality of the game mechanics, however, is that playing a priest as a main is unusual, because it's swimming upstream. The gameplay pressure is against priest mains; the mechanics strongly favor playing a regular character as a main and a priest as an alt.

 

By now, however, I've concluded you are what you accuse me of being.

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