One-click queue filling

[Wulfgar 1,107]

11 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

Watching the gyrations of those attempting to defend mindless clicking -is- pretty amusing...

 

Watching someone advocating watching scripted gameplay as being more fun is however tragic.

[Roccandil 959]

4 hours ago, Wulfgar said:

 

Watching someone advocating watching scripted gameplay as being more fun is however tragic.

 

Speaking of strawmen....

[Brew 116]

Troll thread confirmed, mods can we close this?

[Roccandil 959]

2 hours ago, Brew said:

Troll thread confirmed, mods can we close this?

 

If you want to think I'm not serious about reducing repetitive clicking in the game, that's your business. All the same, I find you all's attitude empty. You offer nothing but ridicule, and that -is- tragic.

[Hailene 362]

37 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

You offer nothing but ridicule, and that -is- tragic.

 

Kettle, is that you?

[Roccandil 959]

2 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

Kettle, is that you?

 

Always thought of myself as more of a soup tureen. (But then I just like the word tureen. )

[Brew 116]

We asked you questions in this thread you avoided answering.  How can you say this is an actual suggestion when you won't respond to feedback?

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

I love shooting... allow me to shoot this dead horse once more.  -1

[Roccandil 959]

27 minutes ago, Brew said:

We asked you questions in this thread you avoided answering.  How can you say this is an actual suggestion when you won't respond to feedback?

 

I did respond based on actual feedback; that would be this thread, which is a refinement of this suggestion:

 

 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

I have to wonder if roccandil and hailene are the same person just going at it to keep this going.

 

Suggestions asking to allow botting should just be closed anyways.

[Hailene 362]

16 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

I have to wonder if roccandil and hailene are the same person just going at it to keep this going.

 

My low opinion of you managed to chisel through the bedrock. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Hailene

[JakeRivers 2,921]

I am heartbroken!  No I am not, I don't post here to win some popularity contest, nope.

 

Don't care who you are or what you think about me.

 

Have nice day.

[Hailene 362]

Edit: going to be the bigger man and just stop feeding the troll.

 

Sorry for spamming the thread. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Hailene

[Cunk 45]

The game you're looking for is Life Is Feudal. It's very Wurm-like and not only do they allow macroing and scripting, it is pretty much an essential part of the game. If you're not automating your gameplay in LiF you will fall behind those that do.

 

Sure, you wind up with an entire village populated with AFK players gathering grass and mushrooms or slinging rocks at targets day in and day out  but hey, at least it's automated.

[Roccandil 959]

1 hour ago, Cunk said:

The game you're looking for is Life Is Feudal. It's very Wurm-like and not only do they allow macroing and scripting, it is pretty much an essential part of the game. If you're not automating your gameplay in LiF you will fall behind those that do.

 

Sure, you wind up with an entire village populated with AFK players gathering grass and mushrooms or slinging rocks at targets day in and day out  but hey, at least it's automated.

 

I've looked at it, and the above would be great if I could do interesting things on one char while auto-grinding another, but that didn't sound practical.

 

Also, ironically, LiF combat sounded a lot twitchier (and thus more prone to being influenced by lag), and one of the things I like about Wurm combat is how little twitch skill it actually requires.

 

Finally, no magic system.

 

At any rate, I -might- try LiF at some point, but I'm not feeling compelled to do it now.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Roccandil

[Roccandil 959]

By the way, since I -did- post a follow-up thread with more refined suggestions based on feedback from this thread, I wouldn't mind seeing this thread closed.

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

SirArowhun, is that you?

[Fairyshine 3,183]

If I lived in Medieval times and monotonous tasks bored me to death I would invent a machine to do that task. Like someone mentioned previously: sawmill for changing 50 logs into 300 planks, extended to making a net left in a stream or ocean to cath bigger amounts of fish, super slicer to chop 50 veggies at once or filet 50 meat at once, juicers for fruit, mills for grain to flour, presses to make different types of nails (load 50 lumps, light a fire and come back to 500 small nails or 250 large nails or 50 locks or whatever, similar to stills),  spinning devices to spin 100 cottons into strings or weave 500 strings into cloth squares etc. The list can go on but the thing is that the char operating these machines would gain no skill from these actions, the actions would complete over time regardless (like log piles currently take time to make the coal and ash), the ql of the products can be linked in some way to the ql of the product fed into the machine etc. Automated actions on chars themselves seems like turning the char into a machine (or slave?)

 

I agree that multi chars are encouraged by the limitations placed on priests. If there were none I would play only one main priest.  Now, most people own at least a main and a priest. Priests can gain skill seni AFK by sermon groups though, hence you waste your time trying to talk to a priest char there- which is prob how the rest of wurm would go if other chars could gain skills in similar manner.

[Roccandil 959]

17 hours ago, Fairyshine said:

If I lived in Medieval times and monotonous tasks bored me to death I would invent a machine to do that task. Like someone mentioned previously: sawmill for changing 50 logs into 300 planks, extended to making a net left in a stream or ocean to cath bigger amounts of fish, super slicer to chop 50 veggies at once or filet 50 meat at once, juicers for fruit, mills for grain to flour, presses to make different types of nails (load 50 lumps, light a fire and come back to 500 small nails or 250 large nails or 50 locks or whatever, similar to stills),  spinning devices to spin 100 cottons into strings or weave 500 strings into cloth squares etc. The list can go on but the thing is that the char operating these machines would gain no skill from these actions, the actions would complete over time regardless (like log piles currently take time to make the coal and ash), the ql of the products can be linked in some way to the ql of the product fed into the machine etc. Automated actions on chars themselves seems like turning the char into a machine (or slave?)

 

I agree that multi chars are encouraged by the limitations placed on priests. If there were none I would play only one main priest.  Now, most people own at least a main and a priest. Priests can gain skill seni AFK by sermon groups though, hence you waste your time trying to talk to a priest char there- which is prob how the rest of wurm would go if other chars could gain skills in similar manner.

 

Realistically, the character would gain skill in machine operations (as opposed to to woodcutting/butchering/whatever).

 

I realize automation is a broad word, which is why I've been trying to hammer on the "100 clicks for 100 ore" scenario. Reducing that by -my- queue size makes it 25 clicks, which seems a reasonable QoL improvement, and runs afoul of none of the "idle game" issues presented. (Yes, it appears I can keybind mining and hold a key down to do the same thing, but in that case, is there any reason to not make an Action Window that supports queueing actions, using the superior Crafting Window queue interface?)

 

And yes, priests are idle gaming. No question.

[Yiraia 427]

22 hours ago, Roccandil said:

And yes, priests are idle gaming. No question.

I don't consider farming for crops, chopping the crops, sacrificing the crops for favor, and then casting spells with said favor "idle gaming." Gaining faith is idle gaming, but theres more to being a good priest than just faith. I had to work my butt off to gain (well lose) alignment for Nathan. Killed several tower guards and butchered their corpse. And besides, priest have their own portion of the game that is available for them. They can fight along with attack/heal spells, some can do alchemy/mining/woodcutting/digging, all can do forgaging/botanizing/fishing/cooking/BulkCrafts/meditation, and whatever a priest can't do, they can most likely trade casts for.

[Ascorbic 265]

I would be ok, with having NPCs to automate tasks, but they need to be slower than people (much much slower), and you need to feed them (should consume a lot of food each day), they should sleep every wurm night.

 

It would be cool, if they gain skill over time like a player, and you could sell or trade their contract to other players.  Maybe even have it tied to mind logic and gains skill each day based on your npc's happiness.  So the more stuff they have in their room, the better the food is and so on the happier they are.  Every ten points in the mind logic you can use another NPC.  So no matter what you can only have 11 max.  

 

Just some thoughts.

 

[Roccandil 959]

53 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

I don't consider farming for crops, chopping the crops, sacrificing the crops for favor, and then casting spells with said favor "idle gaming." Gaining faith is idle gaming, but theres more to being a good priest than just faith. I had to work my butt off to gain (well lose) alignment for Nathan. Killed several tower guards and butchered their corpse. And besides, priest have their own portion of the game that is available for them. They can fight along with attack/heal spells, some can do alchemy/mining/woodcutting/digging, all can do forgaging/botanizing/fishing/cooking/BulkCrafts/meditation, and whatever a priest can't do, they can most likely trade casts for.

 

Priests have three cooldowns: prayers, sermons, and favor regen, all of which encourage leaving them online standing at an altar. Farming is only a periodic task, and while we can actively grind channeling via saccing, that is also only a periodic task (unless you have infinite resources, which I don't ).

 

Sure, if you want to play as only a priest, they have plenty they can do, but my crafter alt has far more I need to work on, and he doesn't have anything to gain standing around (except maybe for lockpicking). That means in general, it's far more efficient for me to play my crafter while leaving my priests idle waiting on cooldowns, since now -all- my alts are doing something useful.

 

Also, when I can't steadily foreground play the game, I can put my crafter to bed and leave my priests on, since why not let them favor regen? I've gotten some nice casts from the "free" favor.

 

 

[Yiraia 427]

54 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

Priests have three cooldowns: prayers, sermons, and favor regen, all of which encourage leaving them online standing at an altar. Farming is only a periodic task, and while we can actively grind channeling via saccing, that is also only a periodic task (unless you have infinite resources, which I don't ).

Meditation has cooldowns, that doesnt encourage everybody to stand in front of a rug tile all day long. I have altars in the two main areas I work, and the prayer timer is 20 minutes. I would farm and watch my timer to see when I have to pray. If you are at a well organized sermon then you will also have tasks you can perform, such as bulk making bricks/planks/nails etc for a crafter to use. Also Farming can be a periodic task, but if you know you only have about 3 hours of gameplay in a day, you can easily fill that time up but making a farm appropriate for 3 hours. Also stating that channel grinding along with saccing is only a periodic task because of limited resources... That applies to the majority of skills (Not all). The big skills such as smithing and carpentry require logs and metals. Getting the metal/wood takes little time and grinding with it takes more time. For channel grinding, I have a relatively small amount of cotton (around 4k) and lvl 60 in cloth tailoring. I with 80ql+ tools, and woa, I make plenty of 60-70ql square pieces of cloth. The cotton I get from farming comes way faster than I can use it, And im not even past 80 in farming and I don't even tend my farm everyday. So as long as I have the time, I could be working on making favor through cotton. (Strings of cloth, then square pieces of cloth)

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Sure, if you want to play as only a priest, they have plenty they can do, but my crafter alt has far more I need to work on, and he doesn't have anything to gain standing around (except maybe for lockpicking). That means in general, it's far more efficient for me to play my crafter while leaving my priests idle waiting on cooldowns, since now -all- my alts are doing something useful.

Thats your experience, but I have recently gotten annoyed when i realized what 1 power of cast in CoC actually meant. I didn't know that 10 coc alone meant 10% more skill. That made me think 50coc is SO much better than just a blank tool even though shops make it seem like its worth nothing, and that getting up to 80-90coc would be a blessing. I mean... 50% more xp... that beats the majority of xp bonuses (just not sleep bonus until 100+coc). I find is extremely more efficient to spend time leveling up my priest first to get at least 50coc on everything I use (but of course aim for 80+ in the long run) so everything grinded on my main would be much better. I currently leave my crafter in the dust while I spend my free time grinding my priest up just so every skill that can have a coc tool is easier. 

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Also, when I can't steadily foreground play the game, I can put my crafter to bed and leave my priests on, since why not let them favor regen? I've gotten some nice casts from the "free" favor.

Id rather get a few minutes of sleep bonus than be able to cast 2 spells. That way the next 2 spells I cast are better. Even if my priest had high channel (only at 68 right now) I would sleep to get more xp for another skill.

 

Priest may not have as many options as a crafter, but priest are as idle as you make them, not idle in general. If you choose to stand in front of an altar and just gain faith and occasionally cast good spells, thats your choice. But saying that priests are idle gaming WITH NO QUESTION is far from correct. Faith gaining is idle gaming, Just like meditation is. But you are free to do whatever you want in between, assuming your diety allows it.

[Hailene 362]

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Priests have three cooldowns: prayers, sermons, and favor regen, all of which encourage leaving them online standing at an altar.

 

You're forgetting the whole saccing mechanic. It requires even more attention if you have a battery saccing items for a constant stream of casts.

 

The way you play a priest is AFK friendly. It doesn't have to be that way.

[Roccandil 959]

20 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Meditation has cooldowns, that doesnt encourage everybody to stand in front of a rug tile all day long.

 

Well, in my case.... (To be more precise, the fact that timers aren't server-side means I need to leave alts logged in if I'm to really use the in-game timers while I can't foreground play, otherwise I could log in periodically to check timers.)

 

20 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

I have altars in the two main areas I work, and the prayer timer is 20 minutes. I would farm and watch my timer to see when I have to pray. If you are at a well organized sermon then you will also have tasks you can perform, such as bulk making bricks/planks/nails etc for a crafter to use. Also Farming can be a periodic task, but if you know you only have about 3 hours of gameplay in a day, you can easily fill that time up but making a farm appropriate for 3 hours. Also stating that channel grinding along with saccing is only a periodic task because of limited resources... That applies to the majority of skills (Not all). The big skills such as smithing and carpentry require logs and metals. Getting the metal/wood takes little time and grinding with it takes more time. For channel grinding, I have a relatively small amount of cotton (around 4k) and lvl 60 in cloth tailoring. I with 80ql+ tools, and woa, I make plenty of 60-70ql square pieces of cloth. The cotton I get from farming comes way faster than I can use it, And im not even past 80 in farming and I don't even tend my farm everyday. So as long as I have the time, I could be working on making favor through cotton. (Strings of cloth, then square pieces of cloth)

 

Like I said, if you want to play as a priest only, there's certainly plenty to do.

 

20 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Thats your experience, but I have recently gotten annoyed when i realized what 1 power of cast in CoC actually meant. I didn't know that 10 coc alone meant 10% more skill. That made me think 50coc is SO much better than just a blank tool even though shops make it seem like its worth nothing, and that getting up to 80-90coc would be a blessing. I mean... 50% more xp... that beats the majority of xp bonuses (just not sleep bonus until 100+coc). I find is extremely more efficient to spend time leveling up my priest first to get at least 50coc on everything I use (but of course aim for 80+ in the long run) so everything grinded on my main would be much better. I currently leave my crafter in the dust while I spend my free time grinding my priest up just so every skill that can have a coc tool is easier. 

Id rather get a few minutes of sleep bonus than be able to cast 2 spells. That way the next 2 spells I cast are better. Even if my priest had high channel (only at 68 right now) I would sleep to get more xp for another skill.

 

CoC does -not- apply to statgains, and so I'm judicious as to what I apply it to (this may matter more on Epic than Freedom). I especially avoid CoC for woodcutting or digging; I want to maximize body stats there.

 

And I have more sleep bonus than I know what to do with. Having multiple alts means I accrue total sleep bonus much faster, and since I can really only use SB doing foreground gameplay, anything involving gains I can do via SB; I just swap from alt to alt. Get low on SB on one, do something on another. And SB is better than CoC, because it doubles statgain.

 

But I was referring to more than simply skilling; I'm actually mostly not grinding on my crafter (I might as well wait until level 11 PoK for anything serious), and yet my crafter has an incredible number of important tasks to do (again, this may be an Epic thing). My backlog of non-grinding tasks is so long I doubt I can finish it.

 

So, I view Wurm decision-making like chess: I want my moves to do more than one thing, if possible, and so if I can get an important task done -and- get some grinding in, that's more efficient than pure grinding for the sake of grinding (which I only rarely do).

 

For an example of a double-move, I did a little panfilling on my crafter to grind HFC, and used the meal output to fuel channel grinding on my Fo prime. At the same time, my priest alts are working on favor gain and cooldowns, so that's actually triply-efficient.

 

(Yes, I realize grinding on Epic would seem to be a gross violation of the above, but I'm protesting. I do -not- want to abandon Epic to grind on Freedom.)

 

20 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

 

Priest may not have as many options as a crafter, but priest are as idle as you make them, not idle in general. If you choose to stand in front of an altar and just gain faith and occasionally cast good spells, thats your choice. But saying that priests are idle gaming WITH NO QUESTION is far from correct. Faith gaining is idle gaming, Just like meditation is. But you are free to do whatever you want in between, assuming your diety allows it.

 

Priests are unquestionably idle gaming for me. Sure, you can foreground play them, but with a crafter/fighter alt, I see no efficient way to foreground play a priest all the time and mostly leave the crafter idle. It's much more efficient to foreground play the crafter/fighter and mostly leave the priest idle.

 

I've done that, and my one-month-old Vyn priest has decent farming/faith/channeling (roughly 80 effective for each, which has been good enough for a lot of 90+ casts and even a couple 100+, most of which were "free" from natural favor regen).

 

Also, there's not much I can do with my crafter by leaving him online while I eat/exercise/do something else. My priests? I get a -lot- by leaving them online while I do something else.

 

Oh, and how many people solo a priest? Sounds like you've made it work, but I think it's fair to say most priests are alts.

 

So, I'm not revising my analysis.