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Ekib

Branded animals are only ones to get Deed bonus

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Sadly Army they are not happy about the endless supply of hides and meat and what ever else a seal supplies in addition to unlimted access to fight skill and weapon skills, never mind all the body stats that you gain from keeping a seal population in check.

 

The animals roaming around and gathering at certain spots is nothing new, this has been happening for as long as I can remember, all the recent change did it seems is to reshuffle where they head to, in the end they still end bunched up somewhere.

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This is not a new issue, and please show me where it says that you need to fence in your deed to play Wurm Online?

Please stop trolling in a suggestion forum ffs!

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You don't need to do anything in Wurm. But complaining about the consequences after making that decision not to is my issue with the magic seal invasion.

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gotta /facepalm again.  Is there any reason to be snarky, insulting, and argumentative over a simple suggestion that some feel is needed?

 

In some cases, in  the south in particular, it's been an ongoing problem that needs to be remedied.  In other cases, such as mine in the north, it's a problem that has arisen since the update.  Telling people they should have built fences, or that they should now build fences is so beside the point. 

 

In some cases, it's not possible to build fences or hedges, even if it was right that we should have to. 

 

If you have nothing constructive to add without deliberately misunderstanding what's being asked for and why, being insulting, assigning blame, making accusations of laziness, etc., maybe you should go seek attention elsewhere?  Just sayin'.

Edited by Amadee
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The easier solution would be to ask for a increase in the deed ratio so a few dozen wild beasts don't overload your deed, where as asking for new coding to account for branded vs non branded animals is far more work and less likely to get implemented.

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That would work too.  I don't really care what the solution is, as long as one is found.  Frankly though, I don't really believe anything at all is going to be done. But I still +1 this suggestion as one of many possible solutions.

 

The issue needs to stay in the light and not buried as people give up and become apathetic about it, or re-adjust their gameplay and deeds yet again, or give up and migrate to WU, etc.  It's an issue, and it requires a solution.

Edited by Amadee
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deed ratio increase might be a possible hotfix (having more than 12 animals in a deed large enough to hold 4 times that easily would be nice as well), but i dont see it working long term, mostly because several deeds are like wulfgar and amadee's, halfway with up montain cliff, or with multiplatform deeds with large height difference: .areas that cant be fenced in or even reached to clean up easily if at all.

that's why i suggested the option that only branded animals would count towards deed's ratio. this should also mean your deed ratio doesnt get jacked up when you have someone passing with a wagon. but those tend not to stay a long enough time to cause issue (unless they need to log out for a while?)

 

its an issue we face, not a choice we took, it was forced onto us.. just because you dont, doesnt mean everyone is as lucky. that's why we have those suggestion thread: to suggest ideas and see if they can be good for the community.

 

and for the record seals are f***ing useless. meat fat hide and gland. so no bladder for sausage to make better meals, no eyes hoof horn for other recipes, cant use them to make decent healing covers, ect. and most love to hide up impossible cliffs, give terrible fs gain (most people sail off pretty fast to train fs elsewhere, seals are barely harder than a cow) and butchering gain sucks. and after removing 50+ of them on a daily basis its exausting. its depressing because its an endless chore and we have other things to do with our wurm time than chase away pests on our land. so if you want to debate about the usefulness of this or that animal, then do a new thread where you explain it all but this isnt one for such debate. thank you.

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all these people too high in fs to kill a seal? everyone has 99 fs these days?

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6 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

all these people too high in fs to kill a seal? everyone has 99 fs these days?

 

Oh thank you for that introspective counterpoint. (not).  Ok, now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.  What does this have to do with the suggestion or the need for a suggestion in the first place?  If you have a legitimate reason to think that the op is not a good solution, then let's hear it. That would be something to debate.  Or are you simply debating the need for a solution, and trying to invalidate the need for a solution?   Or are you just being contrary and argumentative to boost your post count?  I honestly can't tell.

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@RetrogradeCan we get an idea as to whether there is a chance of this happening or not? I'm sure people want to know whether they need to start fencing in their deeds, or if there will be a solution from the devs, either increasing animal ratio or letting only branded animals count towards it.

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On 11/21/2017 at 2:43 PM, armyskin said:

Ok then don't. And also don't deal with them on your own. Just ask for mobs to avoid deeds from now on. Suggestion thread is only for crying about how the game is too hard. You have 2 ways of dealing with this without needing anything changed at all. Yet you won't put the effort into it. So continue to ask for things to be handed to you. There is no location on land that a fence can not be placed if a player wants it there bad enough. I am sorry you are incapable of that amount of dedication but are willing to grovel and ask for help when the only obstacle is your own laziness. 

 

Your elitism is showing....

 

As a relatively new player, I find your attitude exceedingly toxic. I'm very glad you're not representative of the entire Wurm community (I'd probably have moved on by now if that were the case).

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5 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

Your elitism is showing....

 

As a relatively new player, I find your attitude exceedingly toxic. I'm very glad you're not representative of the entire Wurm community (I'd probably have moved on by now if that were the case).

we could only hope

 

 

and explain the elitism of killing things that are causing a problem on your deed? 

Edited by armyskin
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Well, a priority system maybe.

 

Branded animals take up the "good ratio" slots firt, then unbranded animals fight over whats left.

EX: Your deed has capacity for 100 good ratio animals, you have 50 branded animals. You have 50 slots left, lets say you have 50 unbranded cows. Even if suddenly 100 animals show up, only those 50 unbranded cows suffer because you are at 150 out of 50, not 200 out of 100.

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24 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

Well, a priority system maybe.

 

Branded animals take up the "good ratio" slots firt, then unbranded animals fight over whats left.

No, I like the idea of unbranded animals not counting towards the deed ratio at all. Even with the priority system, you'd still have to worry about the consequences of random animals wandering onto your deed, and I think the point of this post is so that you don't have to worry about that.

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On 1/3/2018 at 8:29 PM, armyskin said:

we could only hope

 

 

and explain the elitism of killing things that are causing a problem on your deed? 

 

Your post self-demonstrates elitism; that is, because I don't think like you, you're hoping I'll leave. :P

 

Nevertheless, here's how I see it:

 

- OP identifies a real problem multiple people are having with the new movement code;

- People describe how reasonable player attempts to prevent the issue are failing;

- You come in with a nasty and condescending attitude, and effectively tell them to shut up and take it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, that's bullying and elitism. Who are you to tell them to suck it up?

 

Imagine if the developers acted like you....

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Deed ratio has to count unbranded animals to fulfill its intended purpose.

 

In case any of you forgot, or weren't here to see why deed ratio was implemented, its original intended purpose was to curb the "literally every tile of this deed has two animals on it" deeds that sapped up all of the spawns on the servers. If we make unbranded animals not count toward deed ratio, we'd have deeds with 2 branded horses for the cart, 4 branded bison for the wagon, and several hundred horses/cows/whatever packed into the rest of the deed just because there's no mechanic preventing it. I say it will happen again with some degree of certainty because it has happened before. In fact, the disease mechanic was implemented before ratios because people didn't even bother to corral the animals and just literally had them packed like sardines inside large enclosures. Off deed fence bashing was also implemented to combat this problem. We can not undo any of the mechanics implemented to combat this problem.

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3 hours ago, Wort said:

Deed ratio has to count unbranded animals to fulfill its intended purpose.

 

In case any of you forgot, or weren't here to see why deed ratio was implemented, its original intended purpose was to curb the "literally every tile of this deed has two animals on it" deeds that sapped up all of the spawns on the servers. If we make unbranded animals not count toward deed ratio, we'd have deeds with 2 branded horses for the cart, 4 branded bison for the wagon, and several hundred horses/cows/whatever packed into the rest of the deed just because there's no mechanic preventing it. I say it will happen again with some degree of certainty because it has happened before. In fact, the disease mechanic was implemented before ratios because people didn't even bother to corral the animals and just literally had them packed like sardines inside large enclosures. Off deed fence bashing was also implemented to combat this problem. We can not undo any of the mechanics implemented to combat this problem.

 

I see what you're saying, but conversely, the new movement code has seemingly acted like a plague of locusts, bringing droves of -unwanted- animals on deed.

 

We need a better way to distinguish between wanted and unwanted animals. Realistically, each enclosure should have its own ratio. As an extreme example, why should enclosure X on the NE corner of a deed be affected by enclosure Y in the SE, and why should either be affected by wild seals piling up on another corner?

 

That would probably require new mechanics to allow enclosures to act something like houses, but ideally, each dedicated enclosure with its own ratio would not affect the overall deed ratio (that would be for everything else).

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I have an absurd number of animals on my deed and I dont come anywhere near close to my ratio limit. In order to have wild animals become a problem, you deed must be loaded. 

 

There are three mechanics already in place to fix your issue: extend your deed, reduce the amount of animals you host on your deed to improve your ratio, or cull the local population of wild mobs.

 

I understand that its an inconvenience, just as its an incovenience for people to encounter mobs on the wild while cutting wood: Its an inherent feature of the game and as a result of an intended mechanic.

 

The solutions provided appear workable on the surface, but they are not. For one, as it was mentioned before, counting only branded animals on deed would be extremely exploited, where people could pen absurd amounts of mobs (cows and sheep for milking or shearing, bred horses for sales, workable breading programs, people penning champs and other rare creatures) without any consequences. Then they could simply brand their favorite mount and wagon pullers and never even come close to touching the ratio. This would render that mechanic useless.

 

Then there is the problem of those who -do- want unbranded animals to get deed bonuses. The branding mechanic on Chaos and Epic is pretty much useless. And even if it wasnt, branding horses its moot since they have to be replaced at an alarming rate on pvp servers. Even on Freedom, people who do regular breeding rather not brand horses that are going to be sold/gifted. Its just extra work that in their eyes is not needed. This will be particularily more an issue when the animal cages come into play.

 

This is a double edged QoL change, and this is why I dont see it being implemented. When the proposed changes bring the ability to exploit a game mechanic, you practically guarantee your suggestion is not going to move forward, and this suggestion did just that.

 

And if you think no one will take advantage of such a thing, ask JakeRivers about his infernal farm of hops that caused him so much grief when the change to that mechanic happened. People in this game simply have no limit.

 

In the end, having such a tight ratio is intended to force you to do your work. Just as I have to waste time and go through the hassle of feeding my pen training trolls so they dont bash out, so must you have to either keep your ratio down or regularily cull the local wild population. At least until a better suggestion comes to light.

 

Edited by Angelklaine
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On 1/5/2018 at 2:24 PM, Roccandil said:

 

 

 

Imagine if the developers acted like you....

+1

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-1 You have to be premed to brand the animals afaik.

They should be covered by upkeep.

Edited by Cecci
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https://imgur.com/7YIo0Qx     https://imgur.com/5kQZv3n

2 examples of how ridiculous the seals in my area are.so yes angel: it is a ridiculous number. and they repop all day. every day. without missing a single day. all the time. no matter how many you kill (some even repop inside the deed) so even if i expanded the deed to ridiculous range, which i planned to at first... those things would still cause issues.

and if you want ridiculous it goes both ways: my 14x15 deed can only holds 14 animals before ratio drops... that's a HUGE area for barely anything. 15 tiles each...

 

also im not saying to remove the animal per tile until they get sick ratio: i know why this was put in place and i agree to it (even if for chickens its a bit ridiculous,but i disgress). however a change to the deed's system as it is now is much needed.

doesnt it stand to logic that ONLY the animals you own are cared for and tended in an animal farm (even if you put extra care into some) and not just any and all that wander in? 

would a breeder bother to treat a wild beast that wandered into his land? unlikely. so unless we have a way to say dont count this animal or this whole type... then this method seems the only one so far.

 

cecci said you need premium for branding. could make it so if you have been premmed before can brand. not a big change to allow this.

darmalus suggested a priority system. got to agree it would be nice.. even thaught about it myself. and his version is better than i thaught.

attenia suggested that branded animals dont count towards ratio. if this is the case branding needs to be limited as caring for animals is so no abuse. but its a good idea too.

roccandil suggested pens be acting as individual ratio zones. this also makes sense even if more trouble to code.

so yes my solution to just suggest branded animals be only ones to get the deed help might have been simple (also wanted something easy for devs to do as not to take too much time), but it started people thinking of how to fix the issue many of us are facing. so i'd say it has positive impact.

 

and i agree changes can be exploited, just like anything can be by people with enough cunning and greed, which is why i leave the fine details in the hands of the devs, they are better suited to know how to make it work. what this post is for is to suggest ideas to fix a problem we are experiencing, and bring it to their attention.

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2 hours ago, Ekib said:

attenia suggested that branded animals dont count towards ratio. if this is the case branding needs to be limited as caring for animals is so no abuse. but its a good idea too.

My idea was actually to have only branded animals counting towards the ratio and not have unbranded ones count, but I like your version too. Either would be good with me :)

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On 1/6/2018 at 2:27 PM, Angelklaine said:

I have an absurd number of animals on my deed and I dont come anywhere near close to my ratio limit. In order to have wild animals become a problem, you deed must be loaded. 

 

There are three mechanics already in place to fix your issue: extend your deed, reduce the amount of animals you host on your deed to improve your ratio, or cull the local population of wild mobs.

 

I understand that its an inconvenience, just as its an incovenience for people to encounter mobs on the wild while cutting wood: Its an inherent feature of the game and as a result of an intended mechanic.

 

The solutions provided appear workable on the surface, but they are not. For one, as it was mentioned before, counting only branded animals on deed would be extremely exploited, where people could pen absurd amounts of mobs (cows and sheep for milking or shearing, bred horses for sales, workable breading programs, people penning champs and other rare creatures) without any consequences. Then they could simply brand their favorite mount and wagon pullers and never even come close to touching the ratio. This would render that mechanic useless.

 

Then there is the problem of those who -do- want unbranded animals to get deed bonuses. The branding mechanic on Chaos and Epic is pretty much useless. And even if it wasnt, branding horses its moot since they have to be replaced at an alarming rate on pvp servers. Even on Freedom, people who do regular breeding rather not brand horses that are going to be sold/gifted. Its just extra work that in their eyes is not needed. This will be particularily more an issue when the animal cages come into play.

 

This is a double edged QoL change, and this is why I dont see it being implemented. When the proposed changes bring the ability to exploit a game mechanic, you practically guarantee your suggestion is not going to move forward, and this suggestion did just that.

 

And if you think no one will take advantage of such a thing, ask JakeRivers about his infernal farm of hops that caused him so much grief when the change to that mechanic happened. People in this game simply have no limit.

 

In the end, having such a tight ratio is intended to force you to do your work. Just as I have to waste time and go through the hassle of feeding my pen training trolls so they dont bash out, so must you have to either keep your ratio down or regularily cull the local wild population. At least until a better suggestion comes to light.

 

 

Except that it was working just fine, and now it's not.

 

From a business perspective, the developers made a change that negatively impacted customers, and it's not unreasonable for the customers to point it out. Also, as far as I can tell, the point of the change was -not- to plague specific deeds with swarms of wild animals; that was a side effect.

 

Again, telling the customers that they just need to suck it up really smacks of elitism.

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