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Hailene

Replace iron plate with "thick chain armor"

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4 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Chain weak to pierce, only weapons that only do pierce are all 2h weaps.

 

Well, they already buffed regular chain armor to how high (62.5%) my theoretical thick chain would be. So currently regular chain is literally my thick chain...but better, on Epic. It's sorta already in the game.

 

We could just not add thick chain to Epic because it'd be redundant.

 

Or we could add the model and it'd just be a literal downgrade from regular chain, but it could be flavor for people who want to look a bit different.

Edited by Hailene

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+1 Iron plate is pissing on ppl who made the process of coal making and metallurgy.

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-1 "thick iron chain" is not a thing it's ridiculous thought... I don't mind reducing dr of iron plate a little bit more if neccessary but there is no reason not to have iron plate. I think there were plates through out history that were made from mild steel posibly iron and not from properly harden steel, got bumped a bit often but worked fine which is the case right now in game with iron plate

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26 minutes ago, Ame said:

+1 Iron plate is pissing on ppl who made the process of coal making and metallurgy.

Yeah, lets just stop developing new features.

Every new feature is basically pissing on old players, if we all look at the world like you do.

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10 hours ago, kochinac said:

"thick iron chain" is not a thing it's ridiculous thought

 

What are you talking about? The thickness of the individual rings can and do vary.

 

If you want we could change the adjective to denote the density of the weave. "Dense chainmail".

 

If that's not to your taste, then you can change regular chain to  "butted chainmail" and the new one to "riveted chainmail". I figured "thick" would be more intuitive.

 

10 hours ago, Wulfgar said:

Yeah, lets just stop developing new features.

 

Just because something is new doesn't make it inherently good. We need to make sure that any new changes functions well in the ecosystem of mechanics a game has already created.

 

And my suggestion is literally a new feature.

Edited by Hailene
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3 hours ago, Hailene said:

Just because something is new doesn't make it inherently good. We need to make sure that any new changes functions well in the ecosystem of mechanics a game has already created.

 

Just because something is new doesn't make it inherently bad either. Almost every new feature in Wurm "pisses" on some old players in some way. 

"I paved a road from the moon and back a few million times to get 90 paving, now you can just imp catseyes and do it in a breeze! My life is ruined!!!"

"STUPID DEVS! You dumbed down the game. Now you can get gardening skill by cutting grass and picking herbs from planters? WTF ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT? We needed to plant flowers for years to grind gardening skills and it worked FINE!!!!!!"

"I got all my skills to 100 before this fancy smancy new crafting interface, you are diminishing all my achievements! I could memorize all crafting recipes in my head, these kids got it easy!"

"Pfft, I got all my skills to 100 before those fancy smancy keybinds! I earned my carpal tunnel syndrome, devs ruined my life with those keybinds!"

 

I can't see a single downside to Iron Plate. All the platesmiths who grinded PAS already has a headstart on any new competition, and there is still a market for steel tools and armor, which will have less chance of competition, because less need for other players to grind Coal Making and Metallurgy now.

 

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2 hours ago, Wulfgar said:

Just because something is new doesn't make it inherently bad either.

 

Yeah? Who ever made that argument? Is it the guy who literally made a thread in the suggestions forum to create something new? I would hope not.

 

2 hours ago, Wulfgar said:

I can't see a single downside to Iron Plate.

 

Then you clearly missed my OP.

 

Reduced importance of chain armor on PvE, reduced the importance of metallurgy (largely killing it), reducing the importance of the plate armor smiths market (which further reduces community interaction as yet more people can just make stuff in house), and leaves high level plate smiths bitter.

 

My suggestion removes all these issues AND creates a higher demand for chain smiths--a group of crafters who have been left in the dust. Plate smiths and leatherworking armor is heads and shoulders above it.

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7 hours ago, Hailene said:

Reduced importance of chain armor on PvE,

 

This is maybe your only valid argument, but I doubt that iron plate changes anything for PvE chain smiths at all.

All armour choices in PvE are made from look more than efficiency, since everything is basically easy to kill after a week of grinding fight skill.

Existing plate smiths will get new orders for iron plate based on that it has a different outlook, why do you think that all Wurm players will suddenly just go and grind the skill to 90? I know I won't.

 

You know what killed almost all armor smithing on PvE? Loot drops from creatures that are just so much better than anything craftable (which is already stupid in a sandbox game). This just means that all armor changes should be based purely on PvP perspective.

 

My initial reaction was not even to you, it was purely against the argument made by someone else that "boo hoo, you pissed on plate smiths", but it seems to be your primary reason as well, since you are reacting so strongly. It is just a childish argument, and holds no value at all. From my perspective Plate smithing was finally fixed after years of being a broken skill. I hope one day the devs will have the balls to change weapon smithing also, from being 3x as slow to 2x as slow as other skills, because the only argument against that is old weaponsmiths crying over how much time they spend grinding the skill, and feels their time was wasted, even though they profited greatly for years.

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1 hour ago, Wulfgar said:

All armour choices in PvE are made from look more than efficiency, since everything is basically easy to kill after a week of grinding fight skill.

 

That's why we see hunters running around in leather and cloth, right? Or are those sets just so ugly that people don't go for scale (for being universally effective), drake (tough and light), studded (for crush) or plate (for something cheap and good against everything but crush?) Or do people gear up for what's mostly what's effective for them within their means?

 

1 hour ago, Wulfgar said:

Loot drops from creatures that are just so much better than anything craftable

 

I assume you're talking about drake and scale. Assuming you don't buy it, it takes months if not years to put a set together. It's not like we're all vets.

 

1 hour ago, Wulfgar said:

, it was purely against the argument made by someone else that "boo hoo, you pissed on plate smiths

 

It pissed on plate smiths, it pissed on metallurgists, and it also pissed on coalmakers. I'm all three. Of course this frustrates me.

 

It'd be like if you built a wonderful castle and furnished it but then the devs turned around a let stone walls be built with 1 brick and mortar instead.

 

If they suddenly made weaponsmithing a lot easier I'd know that this game is going down a direction I don't want to see.

Edited by Hailene

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1 hour ago, Hailene said:

 plate (for something cheap and good against everything but crush?)

 

except its terrible against crush and worse than chain against slash. pierce is fairly uncommon unless you're rolling around in thorn bushes, and armor doesnt matter much in pve in the first place when you're using a shield as you should be.

 

https://warlander.github.io/Wurm-Toolbox/#armor-calc

 

this whole thread seems like OP attempting to hype up iron plate as good when it's not, in order to try and sell it :^)

 

chainsmiths rejoice

Edited by Alexgopen

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2 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

That's why we see hunters running around in leather and cloth, right? Or are those sets just so ugly that people don't go for scale (for being universally effective), drake (tough and light), studded (for crush) or plate (for something cheap and good against everything but crush?) Or do people gear up for what's mostly what's effective for them within their means?

Everyone ive seen off deed wears drake scale studded leather or rare/supreme cloth sets. Ive only seen 1 plateboi in indy and he was afk next to a scorpion spawner.

 Studded leather looks pretty dope imho, plates not good and its not cheap you can get a 90ql chain set with 70+aosp for the same price as 70ql plate while defending better against everything since its 90ql.

"what's effective for them within their means?"

Nobody in this game has ever thought "hey leather 15ql under what imping is hard to get lemme grind 3 different stats to 90 to make 70ql stuff" or "boy this 90ql set for 1s is such a ripoff lemme buy this 70ql set thats inferior in every conceivable way for 2.5+s."

 

Do you actually play this game? I think youre on the wrong forums.

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8 hours ago, Alexgopen said:

except its terrible against crush and worse than chain against slash.

 

What mobs slash?

 

8 hours ago, Alexgopen said:

and armor doesnt matter much in pve in the first place when you're using a shield as you should be.

 

Shields are the absolute worst in pve. Shields take forever to level and one handers do less DPS than a two hander. When most mobs are reasonably easy to kill (with a decent weapon, maybe some LT and a 70+ QL armor), the most important thing is killing speed.

People using shields on freedom are either doing it to level skills for Chaos, for the looks, don't realize how massively time inefficient leveling shields are for pve, or hunting for titles.

 

7 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

"what's effective for them within their means?"

 

It means what's the best they can afford. Everyone can't slap down 300s for a set of armor.

 

7 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

grind 3 different stats to 90 to make 70ql stuff

 

If you're grinding 3 skills to 90 you don't get 70QL stuff.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

All right. I'm done with this thread. It seems like the general consensus is, "Wow, plate smithing is really hard. I like it when things get easy. As long as things are easier for me then the rest of the game balance can go to hell."

 

This is just one more step to ruining the niche that Wurm fills.

 

And additionally iron plate is such garbage that the devs might as well remove it. It's basically just a way to skill plate armor smithing. Though why would anyone would want to skill plate armor smithing since apparently plate is absolute garbage, too.

Edited by Hailene

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The best they can afford is a god dam chain or studded set plate is the most expensive armor to imp, its like 10s for a 90ql set compared to the others that are around 1s, stop trying to say plate is cheap its just wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

What mobs slash?

 

All right. I'm done with this thread. It seems like the general consensus is, "Wow, plate smithing is really hard. I like it when things get easy. As long as things are easier for me then the rest of the game balance can go to hell."

hell hounds slash pretty commonly.

 

The general consensus is "plate freaking sucks chain is great and studded leather is nice for trolls"  PAS is easy i got to 95 to grind BC and offer my friends free scale imps. Its just as easy to level with iron plate as it was with 2 borrowed scale gloves+boots before. Everyone here is talking about how garbage plate is, nobody cares about leveling PAS because you already had scale gloves to level with.

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4 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

 

The general consensus is "plate freaking sucks chain is great and studded leather is nice for trolls"  PAS is easy i got to 95 to grind BC and offer my friends free scale imps. Its just as easy to level with iron plate as it was with 2 borrowed scale gloves+boots before. Everyone here is talking about how garbage plate is, nobody cares about leveling PAS because you already had scale gloves to level with.

 

Man, I wish you guys got your act together.

 

People say iron plate is great because it's easy for people to skill up on. Now you're saying that iron plate is useless because people skilled on scale anyway.


Then you guys say iron plate sucks. Fine. Great. Then it's useless for skilling. It's useless for using.

 

Let's get rid of it and add something useful.

 

"Oh no. You're being all sour about iron plate existing!"

 

What a bunch of circular nonsense.

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Just now, Hailene said:

 

Man, I wish you guys got your act together.

 

People say iron plate is great because it's easy for people to skill up on. Now you're saying that iron plate is useless because people skilled on scale anyway.


Then you guys say iron plate sucks. Fine. Great. Then it's useless for skilling. It's useless for using.

 

Let's get rid of it and add something useful.

 

"Oh no. You're being all sour about iron plate existing!"

 

What a bunch of circular nonsense.

It's almost as if different people form their own opinion on the subject? I've said already had a better way skilling, its useless for using, and may as well leave it in since you want to sell it to newbies so much.

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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

It's almost as if different people form their own opinion on the subject? I've said already had a better way skilling, its useless for using, and may as well leave it in since you want to sell it to newbies so much.

 

I'm not selling anything to anyone. I have enough money already and I have just about all the crafting skills 90+ (working on getting them to 95 just because), anyway, so I'm self-sufficient. I rather just spend the time skilling and helping my alliancemates with stuff.

 

I actually care about the game balance and not just my own personal stake in the game. I think about the game overall.

 

And newbies will be skilling up PAS on their own and making their own sets. Just another skill that will leave the market.

Edited by Hailene

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Sorry double post! Delete or ignore if possible :)

Edited by MashHiven

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Personally i'm glad that they finally added an Iron plate armor. It gives a way to train plate armor smithing without being forced into metallurgy and/or coalmaking due to the steel. The drake gloves doesn't seem to be an option in our region as dragon armor seem to be a very rare prestige item, not achievable in short times unless the player is willing to spend (a good amount of) money to get one. Before that i didn't bother much as it was a big time and resource investment into metallurgy (you could skip the coalmaking if you wanted by colleting the charcoal from lava beasts) to make the steel before you could even start to actually train the actual skill. It also gives an earlier/easier access to a plate set (made of iron) if the player chooses to do so.

 

I'm okay with adding more armor types like "riveted chainmail" or so to speak, and other types for variety's sake.

 

On 11/11/2017 at 4:48 AM, Hailene said:

 

And newbies will be skilling up PAS on their own and making their own sets. Just another skill that will leave the market.

 

A "newbie" with starter strength or barely higher (so lesser carrying capacity) would be more prone to become encumbered as plate armor is much more heavier compared to the other armor types, it would need to be of decent quality before being worth the trade off with movement and weight (which means the player spent time increasing mining for the iron and plate smithing) and at least personally it's a type of armor i only wear if sticking 24/24 on a cart or an horse or on "special" fights such as rifts or unique slaying. Besides, if the player decided to spend the time and dedication to raise these skills to make a good plate armor instead of buying one then perhaps they wanted to make their own armor set to begin with. So a good armor is not something they are pulling out of the blue. But If iron plate is too easy to create (good point) it could be made out of "plate" parts in a similar way that chainmail requires armour chains.

Edited by MashHiven
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Plate is slower than chain there is give and take in all the different armors. On Freedom I use chain and am happy with the improved movement it gives. Sorry if you are a chain smith and feel slighted somehow but can't make all the people happy all the time.

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On 11/17/2017 at 0:24 AM, MashHiven said:

A "newbie" with starter strength or barely higher (so lesser carrying capacity) would be more prone to become encumbered as plate armor is much more heavier compared to the other armor types, it would need to be of decent quality before being worth the trade off with movement and weight

 

When I was a newbie, the first thing I did after terraforming my deed was fence it off. It meant mobs couldn't get in, so I was safe. I ran around without armor unless I went hunting, and then I'd put on my chain and go out.


For PvE, movement isn't really too important. It's just a matter of swapping on some armor when you head out. Like putting on a coat.

 

3 hours ago, Roninn said:

Sorry if you are a chain smith and feel slighted somehow but can't make all the people happy all the time.

 

I'm a chain and plate smith and I feel slighted.

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On 11/7/2017 at 0:59 PM, Hailene said:

 

Also by giving "new bro's a chance to catch up" we alienate and devalue the work of people who had leveled up plate armor smithing before. Some of us play because we are proud of our skills.

You know what's funny about this?

I remember when you popped up in Wurm. You joined after crafting was made MUCH easier. I remember being miffed that I spent years on my smithing skills, specifically blacksmithing, and the "late starters" like you came around and had my skill level in less than a year. 

Now the tables have turned and you're the one that's miffed.

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4 minutes ago, As_I_Decay said:

You know what's funny about this?

I remember when you popped up in Wurm. You joined after crafting was made MUCH easier. I remember being miffed that I spent years on my smithing skills, specifically blacksmithing, and the "late starters" like you came around and had my skill level in less than a year. 

Now the tables have turned and you're the one that's miffed.

 

Seeing your reply, I could not help but think of this:

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Vroomfondel said:

 

Seeing your reply, I could not help but think of this:

Uphill!!! Both ways! Barefoot!

;-)

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