Posted November 8, 2017 Steel plate is substantially stronger than iron plate. While iron plate does allow the ability to skill up plate armour smithing without relying on steel, PAS could already be improved easily with scale, meaning that for an outlay of the initial scale, it could be skilled without costly (skill or financial) resources. Making a skill easier to gain isnt necessarily a bad thing, nor does it eliminate the work others did before. Much like trellises and gardening, paving and catseyes, and many other introductions in the past, sometimes things become easier to do via new items, methods, and systems. Iron plate armour allows new players to gear themselves up with a very defensive mindset, chain armour is still much more practical in terms of every day use, as well as carry capacity and material cost. And while market impact can always happen, it's generally not a good idea to not introduce something because it may affect peoples pockets, Steel having a decent enough advantage in terms of protection (which is why people go plate in the first place) will mean that it's still preferable to iron chain OR iron plate 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) nop -1 It's a good QoL tbh. Edited November 8, 2017 by Niki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said: every other mob in pve is so laughably weak you can just wear whatever you want so studded leather again. I'd imagine steel plate as the crutch for the new player. Any decent player will have access to drake/scale. Though I can see a mid-tier player going to studded. 5 minutes ago, Retrograde said: Steel plate is substantially stronger than iron plate. As I said before, no argument there. But it's the question of relative power to difficulty of obtaining an object. I personally think the power scale is a bit off, but that's just my opinion. 7 minutes ago, Retrograde said: PAS could already be improved easily with scale, meaning that for an outlay of the initial scale, it could be skilled without costly (skill or financial) resources. I'm not sold on the idea of scale as being a cost effective alternative. Even buying the scale for a gauntlet is 15s. Assuming no failures. Imping up a single item has its own issues. 1. You're not going to be able to stay in your "sweet" skilling zone for long (unless you manage tool QL, which breeds its own issues), 2. It's hard to queue multiple actions 3. On top of that, it also requires constant tool changing to imp which further drains concentration (the path of least resistance is very important if you're going to be imping for hours) 3. You're less able to take advantage of lower stamina levels (unless you enable climbing, but then that's yet another thing to micromanage) On top of the large initial capital outlay, it's probably just easier to buy some bulk high QL steel and imp gauntlets. For me and my sanity, anyway. 14 minutes ago, Retrograde said: Iron plate armour allows new players to gear themselves up with a very defensive mindset, chain armour is still much more practical in terms of every day use, as well as carry capacity and material cost. My idea of thick chain armor would all the advantages of iron plate on top of increasing the viability of chain armor smithing and avoiding the issues of marginalizing chain (already in desperate need of help), metallurgy, and hurting the steel plate player interactions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, Hailene said: I'm not sold on the idea of scale as being a cost effective alternative. Even buying the scale for a gauntlet is 15s. Assuming no failures. Imping up a single item has its own issues. 1. You're not going to be able to stay in your "sweet" skilling zone for long (unless you manage tool QL, which breeds its own issues), 2. It's hard to queue multiple actions 3. On top of that, it also requires constant tool changing to imp which further drains concentration (the path of least resistance is very important if you're going to be imping for hours) 3. You're less able to take advantage of lower stamina levels (unless you enable climbing, but then that's yet another thing to micromanage) lol, you just reaching for any excuse now, I have seen quite a few friends skill pas into the 90s using nothing more than a single scale glove 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 1 minute ago, JakeRivers said: lol, you just reaching for any excuse now, I have seen quite a few friends skill pas into the 90s using nothing more than a single scale glove Never said it was impossible. Just a bigger pain in the ass. Assuming you're not absolutely broke, it'd be easier to buy like 20kg of high QL steel and imp steel gauntlets. Imping 60+ objects and good ML makes skilling a relative breeze. Imping a single item is less time efficient and much more bothersome. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) no it was easier for me to go to 75 pas with 2 scale gloves than make steel, i did it in 2-3 days, about the same time it would take for me to make steel to even begin training. Steel has a speed boost still or a armor boost, so I'd go for steel to make money, but to grind I'd use iron, simple. Edited November 8, 2017 by Mclavin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Mclavin said: no it was easier for me to go to 75 pas with 2 scale gloves than make steel, i did it in 2-3 days, about the same time it would take for me to make steel to even begin training. I'm not saying it's impossible to use scale gloves. But it probably would have been easier to shell out like 2s for some 70QL steel than imp just two gauntlets. And also on a side note, you also play Epic, right? With the double skill gain and the curve, it makes more sense to imp fewer items. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Hailene said: I'm not saying it's impossible to use scale gloves. But it probably would have been easier to shell out like 2s for some 70QL steel than imp just two gauntlets. And also on a side note, you also play Epic, right? With the double skill gain and the curve, it makes more sense to imp fewer items. Epic has so many charcoal-bearing critters I had no problem at all grinding PAS to a personally-useful level (75+ effective) via steel. Never done any coal-making myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) [Top secret info deleted] Edited November 8, 2017 by Alexgopen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, Alexgopen said: I would explain but I think it might be funnier to let you get iron plate nerfed into the worst armor instead of the second worst. Check out some PvP videos in the next few weeks if you want to see the people who actually know what they're doing switching to chain I can't speak from a pvp perspective, but from a pve perspective iron plate is straight up better than iron except for the absolute newest of players (with extremely low body strength and not enough BC to ride a horse). Also they changed the stats for various armors on epic. The numbers I gave are for pve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) [Top secret info deleted] Edited November 8, 2017 by Alexgopen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 36 minutes ago, Alexgopen said: I would explain but I think it might be funnier to let you get iron plate nerfed into the worst armor instead of the second worst. Check out some PvP videos in the next few weeks if you want to see the people who actually know what they're doing switching to chain *slips on keyboard and adds a new pierce weapon* 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, Budda said: *slips on keyboard and adds a new pierce weapon* We were wondering if this would happen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 haha seems like people are worried about there market.... iron... plate.. Chainsmithing and leatherworking for the win lols Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) We need a better one-handed weapon for piercing. Swords do less damage than mauls and axes (I know, at the expense of higher parry), but don't pierce all of the time since they can also slash. Maybe the shortsword can be reworked as a dagger with 100% pierce and modified damage (higher damage when behind target) and much reduced parry. Edited November 8, 2017 by Galatyn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Oscarius said: haha seems like people are worried about there market.... iron... plate.. Chainsmithing and leatherworking for the win lols Correct me if I'm wrong, but in PvE chain armor is generally the armor of choice for newbies. It's cheap, easy to get (no need to get hides, lye, or steel), and does a reasonable job of keep you not-dead. Iron plate seems to be chain armor...but better. It's also basically as easy to create (just requires iron of sufficient quality). I can't foresee this going well for chain smiths on pve servers. Can you spin it to me how chain will stay relevant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Hailene said: Iron plate seems to be chain armor...but better. Go fight a troll in iron plate and tell us all about how much better it is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said: Go fight a troll in iron plate and tell us all about how much better it is. The world is more than just trolls. It's like people forgot that newbies exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Hailene said: It's like people forgot that newbies exist. Noobs don't buy 90ql armor from chain-smiths either, so it's not going to effect their market. Pve'rs that can kill everything up to trolls don't wear iron plate aswell, so they don't care about iron plate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Oblivionnreaver said: Noobs don't buy 90ql armor from chain-smiths either, so it's not going to effect their market. Some do. And they at least buy 70-80QL stuff. Which is something. And that's just more argument to make a higher QL chain armor. If chain armor is so useless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hailene said: Some do. And they at least buy 70-80QL stuff. Which is something. And that's just more argument to make a higher QL chain armor. If chain armor is so useless. iron plate is the useless one chief. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Oblivionnreaver said: iron plate is the useless one chief. If that's your opinion, then let's throw out iron plate (it's a win/win then) and add in the thick chain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Hailene said: If that's your opinion, then let's throw out iron plate (it's a win/win then) and add in the thick chain. thick chain would be broken for pvp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Oblivionnreaver said: thick chain would be broken for pvp I am completely ignorant of pvp balance. How would it break the game? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 9, 2017 Chain weak to pierce, only weapons that only do pierce are all 2h weaps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites