Sign in to follow this  
Belfesar

Constantly missing when fighting.

Recommended Posts

God forbid i just enjoy teaching people and helping them learn the game and don't have time for people who wanna be argumentative and refuse to learn.

I suppose i'll stop talking about this now seeing as you've further made my point for me. If anyone else still wants to learn anything about the combat system, as always, i'll be happy to help.

Edited by Nadroj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But remember, you all best have the tip top gear in the game or it's totally unable to be played! (Not like games were ever able to be played up from scratch without top end gear...)

 

Remember, you need to send your check and money order to these folks location or they won't be helpful to you...or provide you with the ability to 'win' at all costs, including your humanity.

 

(That was dripping sarcasm with jokes included!)

 

Yes, I can be just as condescending as you...but I usually refrain except when provoked.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread about Huge Axes missing constantly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

If anyone else still wants to learn anything about the combat system, as always, i'll be happy to help.

 

Since you've looked at the code, I do have a question that occasionally nibbles at my brain when I'm fighting.  hehe.  I make liberal use of focus when fighting trolls, crocs or anacondas.  For the life of me I can't figure out a rhyme or reason for when I'm allowed to begin focusing or when I "need to get into the fight more" first.  Sometimes I can start focusing almost right away, even though I've not taken any visible damage yet nor has the mob.  Other times, I or the mob can be half dead and I'm still getting that message.  What actually determines that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Amadee said:

 

Since you've looked at the code, I do have a question that occasionally nibbles at my brain when I'm fighting.  hehe.  I make liberal use of focus when fighting trolls, crocs or anacondas.  For the life of me I can't figure out a rhyme or reason for when I'm allowed to begin focusing or when I "need to get into the fight more" first.  Sometimes I can start focusing almost right away, even though I've not taken any visible damage yet nor has the mob.  Other times, I or the mob can be half dead and I'm still getting that message.  What actually determines that?

It's 30-40 seconds or so into combat, if you're using 1h shield bash and as soon as it comes back up you'll be ready to focus. if you already had focus from a previous fight you can focus instantly, but if they knock you back to 0 focus you'll have to wait till normal starting time.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Amadee said:

 

Since you've looked at the code, I do have a question that occasionally nibbles at my brain when I'm fighting.  hehe.  I make liberal use of focus when fighting trolls, crocs or anacondas.  For the life of me I can't figure out a rhyme or reason for when I'm allowed to begin focusing or when I "need to get into the fight more" first.  Sometimes I can start focusing almost right away, even though I've not taken any visible damage yet nor has the mob.  Other times, I or the mob can be half dead and I'm still getting that message.  What actually determines that?

 

I'll have to double check but iirc its 30 seconds into a fight before you can start to focus, but your focus levels might persist from one creature to the next if you're lucky, allowing you to focus instantly because you're already at a focus level. Focus goes down by 1 every 20 seconds not in combat, but the timer is independent so focus can fall 1-20 seconds after leaving combat. The game simply can be a bit iffy about timing how long you must wait just because of random server lags for when it polls the player. But the short version is that when you're allowed to focus -should- just be based on a timer.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Corsan said:

I don't use fancy schmancy weaponry.

 

 

Found the problem.

 

Continue on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

 

I'll have to double check but iirc its 30 seconds into a fight before you can start to focus, but your focus levels might persist from one creature to the next if you're lucky, allowing you to focus instantly because you're already at a focus level. Focus goes down by 1 every 20 seconds not in combat, but the timer is independent so focus can fall 1-20 seconds after leaving combat. The game simply can be a bit iffy about timing how long you must wait just because of random server lags for when it polls the player. But the short version is that when you're allowed to focus -should- just be based on a timer.

 

I have noticed that I can focus right away if I already have some focus from a previous fight. I make it a point to not dilly-dally between fights if there are a bunch of trolls in sight.  lol.  What I'm referring to is times when I'm not focused at all and, (could be my imagination, lol), it seems I can start focusing almost right away sometimes while other times it seems the fight goes on forever and I still keep getting the message.  Made me think something else must be coming into play besides time or amount of damage to me or the mob. But then I haven't actually timed it so like I said, could be all in my head.  :)

 

 

edit:  @Corsan  Please don't take this the wrong way as I mean it with the best of intentions, but could you please take your private arguments to pm. This is an interesting subject and it's very distracting.

Edited by Amadee
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Amadee said:

 

I have noticed that I can focus right away if I already have some focus from a previous fight. I make it a point to not dilly-dally between fights if there are a bunch of trolls in sight.  lol.  What I'm referring to is times when I'm not focused at all and, (could be my imagination, lol), it seems I can start focusing almost right away sometimes while other times it seems the fight goes on forever and I still keep getting the message.  Made me think something else must be coming into play besides time or amount of damage to me or the mob. But then I haven't actually timed it so like I said, could be all in my head.  :)

 

To my knowledge it should always be the same length of time, barring a couple seconds difference for random server lag. I'll check the code now just to be sure i'm remembering it right.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Delacroix said:

Do you play on Xanadu?

 

lol.  Actually I do.  Guess that could be part of my problem.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is a perceived problem is not a problem at all, why anyone would use a 40ql weapon is beyond me. If you don't want to bother anyone to get your weapons improved you better buckle down and learn how to weaponsmith.

 

Even the noobs start out now with 50ql swords now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@AmadeeSeems i was a little off, the focus counter actually lets you start focusing after 3 "rounds" of combat. basically anything from about 21-30 seconds depending on some luck, but likely longer on xanadu because.....xanadu. Rounds are meant to be about 10 seconds each but it sorta keeps counting when you're outside combat so you might enter combat when theres only 1 second to go and get the 21 second luck.

Edited by Nadroj
More info
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nadroj said:

@AmadeeSeems i was a little off, the focus counter actually lets you start focusing after 3 "rounds" of combat. basically anything from about 21-30 seconds depending on some luck, but likely longer on xanadu because.....xanadu.

 

Thanks for checking that. Not like it's been a major concern, just an oddity that has occasionally made me scratch my head.  Makes sense that Xana is the cause of the variations I've noticed and why I couldn't make any sense of it.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Amadee said:

 

Thanks for checking that. Not like it's been a major concern, just an oddity that has occasionally made me scratch my head.  Makes sense that Xana is the cause of the variations I've noticed and why I couldn't make any sense of it.  :)

 

That and the way it keeps counting rounds out even when you're not in combat yup.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Thing is a perceived problem is not a problem at all, why anyone would use a 40ql weapon is beyond me.

 

I didn't start the thread, I was just adding what I'd experienced. QL shouldn't matter for whether you hit/miss/your accuracy (Well, in RL terms it may, but I highly doubt they coded it that way.). Nadroj is saying skill doesn't matter.

Someone run on over to test server and get a 100 QL spawned for them and test how often it misses, then do a few more tests with lower QL's and see if there is a difference...

Either way...my 40ish QL's still take big chunks out of a troll. One hit can take out 25% of his health...it's the lack of ability to hit/misses that mostly defines whether I'm running off bandaging or not. Most of the weapons miss, a LOT, but it does seem like the Huge Axe misses a bit more. I watch the combat log a lot and see loads of miss miss miss, or a glance/bounces off armor or a parry every so often from mobs.

 

The bigger question would then become, if weapon skill doesn't factor in to accuracy, what the hell does weapon skill DO?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Corsan said:

The bigger question would then become, if weapon skill doesn't factor in to accuracy, what the hell does weapon skill DO?

 

It's almost as if had you bothered to read, you'd have gotten the answer to this way back on the first page. What a shame it is when you're too busy seeing demons that don't exist to take the time to graciously accept all of the (accurate) information in this thread and learn, instead of willingly feeding into the misconceptions and inaccuracies that run rampant.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Corsan said:

if weapon skill doesn't factor in to accuracy, what the hell does weapon skill DO?

 

Parry rate, special moves, wiki also says reduces damage on weapon (I never checked often enough to notice).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Delacroix said:

 

It's almost as if had you bothered to read, you'd have gotten the answer to this way back on the first page. What a shame it is when you're too busy seeing demons that don't exist to take the time to graciously accept all of the (accurate) information in this thread and learn, instead of willingly feeding into the misconceptions and inaccuracies that run rampant.

 

Oh, like the one implying that weapon QL matters in the equation of hit/miss that these people are foisting around? So far, the only thing I've noticed QL does, is increase the dmg output. You hit a little harder. (Assuming you can hit) So yes, mobs die a tiny bit faster. Whoo hoo. (Yes, I did test. With a 5QL shortsword, and then after I imped it up to 40+...I was testing whether I would get more weapon skill-gain with a lower QL weapon..it allowed me to poke the wolves a lot longer doing less dmg...which equals more skill-gain early on...and I was just starting shortsword at the time.) Where is the relevance to this thread? We're talking about hit/miss of the huge axe in here, and they are all like 'Well derp, if you had a higher QL one it'd solve all yer problems with the hitting/missing' but most of these people run around with a high QL chanted piece of hardware...and they are still missing a bunch more...so it's not relevant apparently...

 

8 minutes ago, Eobersig said:

Parry rate, special moves, wiki also says reduces damage on weapon (I never checked often enough to notice).

 

Alright. So you're saying if I keep getting my shortsword up, it'll parry even more often than it already does at 32 skill?

Special moves seem to require focus to be up before they'll go off/show up, and a lot of stuff dies long before we can get focus to even go up over here on Xan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

@AmadeeSeems i was a little off, the focus counter actually lets you start focusing after 3 "rounds" of combat. basically anything from about 21-30 seconds depending on some luck, but likely longer on xanadu because.....xanadu. Rounds are meant to be about 10 seconds each but it sorta keeps counting when you're outside combat so you might enter combat when theres only 1 second to go and get the 21 second luck.

I *feel* those rounds getting summed up if you fight multiple opponents. Sometimes the ability to focus cones very fast in those situations. But that maybe the 21 secs luck as well then.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Corsan said:

Alright. So you're saying if I keep getting my shortsword up, it'll parry even more often than it already does at 32 skill?

Special moves seem to require focus to be up before they'll go off/show up, and a lot of stuff dies long before we can get focus to even go up over here on Xan.

 

Yes, but don't undervalue parrying. It's fun when you kill a troll without getting a single wound from that fight because you parried or blocked all his attacks. That's why people (like me) don't even use a LT weapon, cause we rarely get any serious wounds in normal hunting.

 

Yes, special moves come up when you can focus. And sure, with easy fights you won't need it, critter will be dead before focus comes up, certainly with a hard hitting 2-hander and when you're lucky and your attacks land. These things are for when you don't kill them with 2 hits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Corsan said:

 

Oh, like the one implying that weapon QL matters in the equation of hit/miss that these people are foisting around? So far, the only thing I've noticed QL does, is increase the dmg output. You hit a little harder. (Assuming you can hit) So yes, mobs die a tiny bit faster. Whoo hoo. (Yes, I did test. With a 5QL shortsword, and then after I imped it up to 40+...I was testing whether I would get more weapon skill-gain with a lower QL weapon..it allowed me to poke the wolves a lot longer doing less dmg...which equals more skill-gain early on...and I was just starting shortsword at the time.) Where is the relevance to this thread? We're talking about hit/miss of the huge axe in here, and they are all like 'Well derp, if you had a higher QL one it'd solve all yer problems with the hitting/missing' but most of these people run around with a high QL chanted piece of hardware...and they are still missing a bunch more...so it's not relevant apparently...

 

On 10/29/2017 at 8:41 AM, Nadroj said:

weapon skill is used for attack speed, parrying, targeting areas, and special moves

 

Page 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Delacroix said:

 

 

Page 1

 

I'm talking about weapon QL, not weapon skill. It (Probably, like I said, someone needs to go test it...) has no relevance to this thread and yet they were ranting/arguing/blathering about it for almost a page or 3. Higher weapon QL doesn't make you hit/miss more often. Even a few of the people here with high QL weapons stated they were having problems still. They are passing around misinformation.

Yes, I was just re-reading the thread and saw that I did miss his comment about that RE : my question about weapon skill...because he proceeded to start arguing/attempting to prove himself right and distracted from the comment...trying to bully people into submission...

 

I had also previously heard fighting from carts is bad too...but then there's the people who constantly fight from one because it's just easier to carry stuff around. That whole ride a wagon out to a fighting ground, unhitch horse...clear it all, re-hitch/gather all the goodies is a useful idea...when you have a regular hunting ground...but on south Xan they haven't fixed the mobs and there is no 'good hunting ground' down here like that, so it's a lot of driving/riding around and hoping you find something. (No, I'm not sailing for half an hour to server border to swap to another server to go hunting.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Corsan said:

I'm talking about weapon QL, not weapon skill.

1 hour ago, Corsan said:

The bigger question would then become, if weapon skill doesn't factor in to accuracy, what the hell does weapon skill DO?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is painful to read. Del i'd just give up trying buddy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Corsan said:

Perhaps hit/miss is purely based on RNG (I don't know, I don't delve code) in this game. But it's (according to Nadroj) not a factor of weapon skill, and I'm saying it's obvious it's not a factor of weapon QL. Perhaps one of the devs could chime in and clear it up.

It's based on your combat rating, some common increasers you'll find in pve are:

 fight skill (+1 per 10 for pve) nimbleness enchant on weapon (+1 per 30 power), normal/aggressive fighting skill for when you're in that stance and attacking, outnumbering (+1 per extra person) truehit cast on you (+1 per 30 power)

and some multipliers like flanking (*1.25 For directly behind them)  Height (*1.05 for 20 dirt *1.1 for 40 dirt, while the enemy below gets *.95 and *.9 respectively) Good/bad footing (*1.4 to *.8 depending on how good/bad it is)

Focus 3 gives +6 and each level after that gives another +2 combat rating that isn't multiplied.

If they're defending side you're swinging at *.8, if swinging at opposite side you are *.9 otherwise no change.

Same combat rating no parry bonus is 50% hit rate, if you're 1 combat rating above them it's 51% hit rate, 2 combat rating above 53%, 5 above 57%. Parry bonus takes away the majority of this bonus so say if you were 5 levels ahead swinging left and they're blocking that side you'd have a 45% hit rate compared to 57%, but if you were the same combat rating it would be 40% hit rate.

 

A troll has 17 Fight rating at aged. You have a base of 4, add in 70 fight skill that's 11. 39.2% hit rate. Troll has 60.7% hit rate. Keep in mind this is just hit rate not blocking glancing all that you probably hit like 20% of the time after all them. Get a slope advantage and you'd have around 43.3% hit rate to the trolls 57%, good footing would take it to around 45%/55%. If you had a weapon with 90 nimbleness it'd be around 50%/50% pre-blocks . After focus 3 w/o any of those bonuses you'd be equal combat rating with troll. Combining all of these things you could be around 60% hit rate and troll would be the one with the 40% hit rate.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

It's based on your combat rating, some common increasers you'll find in pve are:

 fight skill (+1 per 10 for pve) nimbleness enchant on weapon (+1 per 30 power), normal/aggressive fighting skill for when you're in that stance and attacking, outnumbering (+1 per extra person) truehit cast on you (+1 per 30 power)

and some multipliers like flanking (*1.25 For directly behind them)  Height (*1.05 for 20 dirt *1.1 for 40 dirt, while the enemy below gets *.95 and *.9 respectively) Good/bad footing (*1.4 to *.8 depending on how good/bad it is)

Focus 3 gives +6 and each level after that gives another +2 combat rating that isn't multiplied.

If they're defending side you're swinging at *.8, if swinging at opposite side you are *.9 otherwise no change.

Same combat rating no parry bonus is 50% hit rate, if you're 1 combat rating above them it's 51% hit rate, 2 combat rating above 53%, 5 above 57%. Parry bonus takes away the majority of this bonus so say if you were 5 levels ahead swinging left and they're blocking that side you'd have a 45% hit rate compared to 57%, but if you were the same combat rating it would be 40% hit rate.

 

A troll has 17 Fight rating at aged. You have a base of 4, add in 70 fight skill that's 11. 39.2% hit rate. Troll has 60.7% hit rate. Keep in mind this is just hit rate not blocking glancing all that you probably hit like 20% of the time after all them. Get a slope advantage and you'd have around 43.3% hit rate to the trolls 57%, good footing would take it to around 45%/55%. If you had a weapon with 90 nimbleness it'd be around 50%/50% pre-blocks . After focus 3 w/o any of those bonuses you'd be equal combat rating with troll. Combining all of these things you could be around 60% hit rate and troll would be the one with the 40% hit rate.

 

Thanks for all the info.

I'm 76 almost 77 FS...I always go for good footing/height advantage (If possible with terrain), I'm 64 aggressive, 55 normal, 55 (Almost halfway to 56) defensive...I haven't taken my croc out to fight with me in a long while, but I assume that would throw some additions in if/when I did (65 taming).

I was going to update my Niarja, but it's saying skilldump additions aren't functioning/is down right now, won't be up for another 24 hours. I haven't updated for months.

People make some rather false assumptions about me just because I prefer to do things 'the hard way' (No high QL fancy weapons, I prefer my creator tag on stuff).

I haven't died in a long long long time in-game.

I've been sitting on 50s worth of the game money, and I keep putting anything over that into upkeep...I just left for a couple more months because I'd had almost 5 months upkeep in. It's not that I can't afford weapons. It's that I don't pay for stuff like that. I like the challenge.

In my eyes, you people who want the tip top weapons to 'show off' are missing out on the fun the game has to offer...that thrill you get when you may just not make it, when you need to run like mad because that fight isn't going your way. Yeah, maybe I'm missing out on unique fights/rifts/greenish mobs/some champs (I've been killing a few of those lately)...but at least I'm still enjoying the game 4 years later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this