Sign in to follow this  
Grumpysmith

Priest / Religion overhaul

Recommended Posts

I see, ty so its just the skill bonuses that doesnt stack, makes sense.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/12/2017 at 7:42 AM, Stormblade said:

Just move priest spells to skilled priest spells.

 

The more you cast it the higher your skill level the better the spell. Put skill gain in the spell with difficulty on par with gaining channeling.

 

Example.

 

Vyn priest, 20 skill level in CoC with 40 Channeling mean effective skill ( some random brain surgeon calculation ) means an avg of 30ish CoC when cast.

 

That way can just give all the whitelighter priest whitelighter spells, and bl all bl spells and be done with it.  No more random spell list and the 'Oh crap this list is unbalanced fix it later routine' that we've come to expect anytime a new playgod with followers and priests are introduced.

 

This way if a priest chooses to focus on combat, they can, or enchanting, or healing.

 

 

 

 

 

+1 This actually sounds very cool!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-11-12 at 2:42 PM, Stormblade said:

Just move priest spells to skilled priest spells.

 

The more you cast it the higher your skill level the better the spell. Put skill gain in the spell with difficulty on par with gaining channeling.

 

Example.

 

Vyn priest, 20 skill level in CoC with 40 Channeling mean effective skill ( some random brain surgeon calculation ) means an avg of 30ish CoC when cast.

 

That way can just give all the whitelighter priest whitelighter spells, and bl all bl spells and be done with it.  No more random spell list and the 'Oh crap this list is unbalanced fix it later routine' that we've come to expect anytime a new playgod with followers and priests are introduced.

 

This way if a priest chooses to focus on combat, they can, or enchanting, or healing.

 

 

 

 

 

Very smart solution!

1+ to that kind of skilling system.

Player gods can just remain as diffrent bonuses then could be said something like. Libila priest with devotion to Nathan or something, all BL player gods will be titled under Libila and have diffrent bonuses/passives like they do now but only keep BL spells.

 

All WL gods will be tied to Fo,Vyn or Mag depending on what WL spells they share the most with and then keep their bonuses just the same.

 

The mixed spell lists between BL and WL spells will be removed and based on their alignment they will get either the BL or WL spell list.

 

When choosing a devotion to a player god priest you lose all faith just like before, hindering ppl from swapping back and forth as they see fit for the bonuses.

 

Also allowe BL priests on freedom with exception to Mycelium growth and casts. Its time freedom were introduced to our zombies :D

 

 

Edited by Nocturnes
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Four critical points on the "skilled spells" system:

 

1.  Blacklight are going to have a heart attack, they're going to be massively out-spelled

2.  Existing high channeling priests are going to be unhappy if their cast power is effectively halved.

3.  This would have a heavy impact on affinities, how would this be handled?

4.  How would skillgain work with low difficulty spells?

 

The solution to 1 would be more blacklight content, though allowing BL on freedom would definitely give a positive effect.

 

A possible solution to 2 would be to give existing priests a 3x modifier in spell skillgain (for their existing spellset) up to their current channeling level (death recovery bonus).

 

A possible solution to 3/4 would be, rather than having individual spells, to give each spells a "school" (egs : Enchanting, Abjuration, Evocation, Conjuration) and have those as the skills rather than the individual spells.  This would also, somewhat, lessen the impact of 2 (less ground to recover through cast grind).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could always just give us spells books - like the almanac - and limit the slots in that. Priests could chose what kinda priest they want to be - with the original 4 only being "flavor text" stuff and nothing more.

Edited by Rocklobstar
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rock paper scissors is the core 

 

We need to all maintain WL spells with WL and BL with BL.

 

Keep the rock paper scissors divide among freedom Mr and jk but combined they should be able to beat hots.  Divided hots should have a rock paper scissors ability as well to maintain competition.

 

 Keep the 4 gods that have important and all different abilities keeps the long term importance without the worry for change. Player gods add lizard and spock to the equation and here don't work well in a well rooted core system. 

 

My two iron's for the night will add more after any discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also allow 1 time religion swap 1:1 faith and favor per player god priests.  Who are premium ofc.  When the change happens.

Edited by Brew
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gimping priests by putting all kinds of skill restrictions on them doesn't make people play a priest character as a part of a group/community, it makes people play priest characters on an alt.

Edited by Scribble
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Scribble said:

Gimping priests by putting all kinds of skill restrictions on them doesn't make people play a priest character as a part of a group/community, it makes people play priest characters on an alt.

 

I agree. I'm grinding a priest now, and one obvious thing I see is that while my crafter/fighter has an enormous array of skill lines to choose from, my priest has almost no choices at all. You absolutely need Faith and Channeling (and the other religion skills, except Exorcism, just fall in line). Farming/Meditation are obvious skills to work on (and I suppose depending on priest Locksmithing could be good), and the Nature skills in general seem good.

 

But there doesn't seem to be much, if anything, to decide between. A priest is a very "thin" character to play, simply due to the exceedingly small number of skilling choices. A priest inherently feels like an alt; if all I was doing was priesting, I'd be bored. Yeah, I could level up all the non-imping skills, but that's more a luxury than anything else; it's not a hard choice like my crafter/fighter is constantly facing.

 

Long-term, I would definitely look at priests from the standpoint of giving them more choices. Fix that, and maybe more folks would play them as an actual class instead of an alt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with priests is people's perception of them.  When someone says "priest" other people think of a gimpy little low body str character that can't do anything but cast spells, farm and chip bricks.  This is especially perceived for Vyn priests, who cannot dig or mine, and thus seem even less useful.

 

It's a tireless argument that will never go away, because people that don't even make their own bulk mats try to dictate the futility of owning a priest because "they can't do anything".  No, they just can't do anything "fun".   Priests are not flawed, your definition of fun is flawed.

 

The priest overhaul should be geared toward fixing the imbalances between religions, such as Smeagain being outrageously OP for PvP, instead of balancing priests against non-priests.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Priests are not flawed

 

They're there to "give players a sense of pride and accomplishment".

 

2 hours ago, Wargasm said:

The priest overhaul should be geared toward fixing the imbalances between religions, such as Smeagain being outrageously OP for PvP, instead of balancing priests against non-priests.

 

For once I partially agree; the focus should be on balancing priests and developing features that give priests more options (i.e. more unique skills and/or uses for skills).

 

The longer they stay as "a sense of pride and accomplishment", the more dedicated subscribers you'll see migrate to the WU servers ^_^

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Priests need followers to be fun.  If you want to make alts for that purpose that's one way in this amazing sandbox. If you want to do the community approach and play with others then you can play as a priest while working or trading with others.  Which is just one of many other ways to play a priest in the sandbox.  

 

What you are asking for is easy mode everyone should be a priest non restrictions type life.  We prefer the good with the bad idea when it comes to power. Thus a balance.  And agreed to the tune of removing player god imbalances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

For once I partially agree; the focus should be on balancing priests and developing features that give priests more options (i.e. more unique skills and/or uses for skills).

 

The longer they stay as "a sense of pride and accomplishment", the more dedicated subscribers you'll see migrate to the WU servers ^_^

 

I fully agree. :) Right now the gameplay capabilities of non-priests versus priests is itself a huge imbalance. Priests need more skills that non-priests can't access, enough that they have hard decisions to make as to what to develop. In fact, I'd suggest as a future target that priests have as many unique priest skills as there are imping-required skills. (I'm assuming we're sticking with the model that priests can't imp/continue.)

 

At the same time, I'm not sure that splitting what priests can already do into those hard options would be a good thing (like having individual spell skills for enchanting, attacking, healing, transmutation, etc.). In that case, something more would need to be added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, let's allow certain people to keep a stranglehold on what could actually add a lot of fun to the game...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if followers could link their favor to priests? That would largely eliminate the need for dedicated batteries, while also feeling pretty cool lore-wise (a bunch of followers unite their devotion to help their priest).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-10-29 at 1:46 PM, Skinded said:

I'm not sure if someone covered this already above but, it'd be nice if the restrictions were turned off on PvE worlds for priests. I really don't like having alts. Would save us some money too since more players would just have priest on their main (and don't have to prem another account).

 

 

So every character should be a priest? That's a terrible idea tbh. You want priesthood to be unique it it's own way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/9/2017 at 0:22 PM, Theodein said:

 

 

So every character should be a priest? That's a terrible idea tbh. You want priesthood to be unique it it's own way.

 

They are already unique in that you can only be one type of priest. You can't be Fo, Mag, Vyn, and Lib(Or player gods) all at once. So you essentially are already forced down one path, but by depriving the majority of people's mains of priesting with restrictions, you shut down even more options and effectively just create more cash-flow for the game by forcing alt-use.

Think of it like fire, earth, air, water mages.

Essentially what this game did with their priests/mages is make each a certain 'type'. Lib = Death magic, Fo = Love magic Vyn = Experiential magic Mag = Earthy type stuff...but then they kinda made certain ones more useful than others...for combat or PvE related stuff....and that caused all kinds of wonky balancing issues..

So maybe they need to re-focus what each does...like make one that's good for combat, one good for PvE related stuff, one good for grinding skills/enhancing weapons/tools to skill better, and maybe one that is good at defiling an area/creating havoc, or whatever else they want to do. They can/still do restrict it enough as is, it doesn't need the restriction of 'Only for alts', unless we're purely focusing on a dwindling cash-flow for the game. What worked in the past with a larger player-base isn't working as well now.

I've offered other suggestions many times over my play time, like for example creating spell 'panes' where you have certain skill lists in that pane. Depending on what type of priest you are, it could/would activate certain spells/abilities, and maybe block out/darken others. We don't need 'every skill' uber priests. Make some require linking up, since we already have that mechanic if you want to force 'inter-dependency' between players.

Just depriving us of a whole section of the game because of a strange desire to force people to interact is kind of odd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/22/2017 at 1:34 AM, Brew said:

Also allow 1 time religion swap 1:1 faith and favor per player god priests.  Who are premium ofc.  When the change happens.

+1 Vynora will never be fixed best to abandon her to memory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are my thoughts on priesting that are way out in right field - on purpose to spark debate.

 

1.  Remove linking with other priests altogether for spells and rather let the priest link with a filled gem instead.

2.  Stop, please just stop, player deities.  No more please.....

3.  Give priest characters, once they become priest, the ability to spend favor points (1200 maybe?) to choose from the entire spell list (except the "300" favor ones) in order to develop their own list of spells that make them a unique priest based on their own play style.  For example, Nimbleness would cost 80 points, Strongwall 70, COC 50.  Unused points would remain unused.  Think building a skill list for a character - only this would be a spell list.

4.  They would also choose a deity.  Choosing a deity would grant a single special deity spell from the current list of 300 favor spells (granted at level 90 faith).  Perhaps Fo priests get Holy Crop as their 300 spell, etc. etc.  The 300 spells would not require linking but could be cast once per reset period.  When cast, the 300 spell would drain all of the priests favor.  The 300 spell would be granted once a priest's faith reaches 90.

 

These changes would turn priesting upside down, but maybe that is what we need to do.  Honestly, with a game like Wurm where a player can skill any skill, having priests with a custom spell list just makes sense to me.

 

Ok, Flame away...

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

Here are my thoughts on priesting that are way out in right field - on purpose to spark debate.

 

1.  Remove linking with other priests altogether for spells and rather let the priest link with a filled gem instead.

 

Makes sense to me, except for 300 spells. I think I would change the 300 spells, though (see below).

 

1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

2.  Stop, please just stop, player deities.  No more please.....

 

Absolutely. At risk of offending current player deities, I'd say remove them as priest options, and do something else with demigods...

 

1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

3.  Give priest characters, once they become priest, the ability to spend favor points (1200 maybe?) to choose from the entire spell list (except the "300" favor ones) in order to develop their own list of spells that make them a unique priest based on their own play style.  For example, Nimbleness would cost 80 points, Strongwall 70, COC 50.  Unused points would remain unused.  Think building a skill list for a character - only this would be a spell list.

 

Hmm. Fits RPG mechanics, but would be new to Wurm (I think). I'd rather see Channeling as a parent skill, with spell schools beneath. If you get to, say, Elemental 40, you unlock Frostbrand.

 

Different gods could have bonuses to skilling up different spell schools.

 

1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

4.  They would also choose a deity.  Choosing a deity would grant a single special deity spell from the current list of 300 favor spells (granted at level 90 faith).  Perhaps Fo priests get Holy Crop as their 300 spell, etc. etc.  The 300 spells would not require linking but could be cast once per reset period.  When cast, the 300 spell would drain all of the priests favor.  The 300 spell would be granted once a priest's faith reaches 90.

 

The current 300 spells seem to fit their gods, but instead of limiting their casting with favor, I might simply require a certain number of linked priests (7?).

 

1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

 

These changes would turn priesting upside down, but maybe that is what we need to do.  Honestly, with a game like Wurm where a player can skill any skill, having priests with a custom spell list just makes sense to me.

 

Ok, Flame away...

 

 

The spells and bonuses of the original four gods seem well-crafted for lore (maybe not balance), and (perhaps irrelevantly) they also fit the meditation paths:

 

Vyn -> Knowledge

Fo -> Love

Mag -> Power

Lib -> Hate/Insanity

 

This is a bit crazy, but I wonder if the med bonuses shouldn't be collapsed somehow into the gods (and maybe just remove the meditation mechanic :P ). One downside is the removal of combos (Vyn/Power, Fo/Insanity, etc.).

 

Of course, med and god mechanics being as unbalanced as they are, I don't think Wurm is really getting the benefit of the possible combinations (I think it would be great if it did). Collapsing the bonuses would probably make them easier to balance, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we've reached the "abandon all hope" point for any meaningful magic update in the near future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we add spells would like to see here also ?

 

I think Magranon should get a spell called Stone , same as vyns dirt spell .

Lower the reuse time on magranons wrath from 5 minutes to 2 for pve , don't see why 5 is needed  same can be said for stonewall from 3 down to 1 minute be handy all pve .

 

Increase the chance of disintegrate for ore veins on deed village and perimeter ,.

 

The linking of off set deity's is interesting but make it that more favour is needed then as its not pure deity faith cast or higher chance to fail .

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this