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Grumpysmith

Priest / Religion overhaul

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All you do is attack each other instead of the actual debate itself.  Roc, for being a new player it's not a helpful thing to start fights on every thread just to fight.  

 

Opinions dont matter when all you think about is yourself and not the games overall health.  Talking about fixing issues is the point of the thread not Complaining you need to have another friend to make proper use of a priest.  It's not a single player game unless you want it to be.  If this is a single player game, stop posting on forums as this is a community discussion not me me me me me my precious ssssssss

 

 

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Remove Nathan-, Tosiek- and Gary-Piests from freedom or add Libila too!

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On 11/4/2017 at 10:12 AM, Brew said:

All you do is attack each other instead of the actual debate itself.  Roc, for being a new player it's not a helpful thing to start fights on every thread just to fight.  

 

Opinions dont matter when all you think about is yourself and not the games overall health.  Talking about fixing issues is the point of the thread not Complaining you need to have another friend to make proper use of a priest.  It's not a single player game unless you want it to be.  If this is a single player game, stop posting on forums as this is a community discussion not me me me me me my precious ssssssss

 

 

 

Am I starting fights? As far as I can see, this one had already started. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but elitism is not something I tolerate.

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All right, rant mode enabled. :P

 

Shazaam implied or outright described other participants in this discussion as dense, lazy, cheap, and ignorant, called the entire thread retarded, and threw in an allusion to Dunning-Kruger Online for good measure. I waited, didn't see anyone call him on it, and I did.

 

Not apologizing for that, and I'd do it again. :P

 

As to the actual problem, it's obvious that batteries suck. I'm grinding an alt to be a priest, and it's fun because it's a completely different way to approach the game. The thought of repeating that work on another character, however, simply to be able to cast one or two powerful spells, sucks.  (Oh, and I get to pay for that privilege. :P )

 

Now, I don't believe the developers are deliberately abusing that system to get income. Spells like LT are clearly powerful and should be more difficult than normal to cast, and here's how I would solve that: tie the ability to cast those spells to a skill other than channeling, such that you need, simply for example, a high level in Alchemy plus a high level in Channeling to do high QL casts of LT/MS/etc. That way you have to grind something else to cast those, but it isn't repetitive; it's different. (And that also frees up an alt slot for another priest type, if you want, and I suspect a lot of folks would do that.)

 

While I'm making suggestions, I'd also love to see Alchemy include a new skill: Coatings. These would allow players to mix animal and herbal ingredients (much like the cooking system) to create blade or armor coatings to provide temporary enchantment effects. These would always be weaker than priest counterparts, and might also increase damage to equipment, but they would allow new players to try out certain spell effects easily (say, LT40 for 30min at a decent Coating skill).

 

This would also narrow the PvP gap, while not making priests useless. (Maybe remove shattering to compensate priests... :P )

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I think the suggestion someone else had about being able to link priests of other faiths was a good idea. That would make casting those spells a ton more tolerable.

 

What I think is maybe a larger problem is the fact you ask almost anyone on Freedom what enchants they would like on a weapon and a good bet is the majority will pick LT as one of them every time. I see this as a problem because choosing enchants should not be a clear cut choice. None should dominate over the others. Maybe we need some new enchants. Ones that will make you say hmmm do i want this one or LT. It is obviously not balanced when the majority picks one enchant over others.

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7 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Shazaam implied or outright described other participants in this discussion as dense, lazy, cheap, and ignorant, called the entire thread retarded, and threw in an allusion to Dunning-Kruger Online for good measure. I waited, didn't see anyone call him on it, and I did.

 

Not apologizing for that, and I'd do it again. :P

 

#hurtfeelings

Should read what i was trying to get across. Please continue to white-knight for everyone who cannot comprehend anything I'm trying to explain.

 

7 hours ago, Roccandil said:

Now, I don't believe the developers are deliberately abusing that system to get income.

 

Abusing what system? This is why i love to engage. It's like anytime something is out of reach for someone in either game-time or financially, it's a personal affront to them and therefore 'evil'.  lol.

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Let's try and keep this thread on topic and not let the thread turn into mud-slinging. 

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On 10/30/2017 at 7:32 PM, Retrograde said:

Just to clarify, as I feel some have gotten the wrong idea here:

 

Our focus on this is not to change the foundation mechanics of priests, but rather balancing of spells, passive abilities and how they all work together,

 

A major part of our focus will be addressing player gods and the random generation of spells leading to combinations that are overpowered, and also looking at spell sets of the original gods as each spell individually to see if it's balanced properly.

 

While ideas such as the ones presented in here are interesting, and may be included in later discussions, in this thread we're looking for more issues with individual things being unbalanced by themselves or in combination with other spells or abilities. 

 

Rather round-about way of saying "Were going to nerf smeagain (possibly vyn) to the ground, and slightly buff others"...

Being a priest already has such gigantic drawbacks..how many priest's will we need now for full spell coverage? 4? 6? how many batteries will those need?

Paying 8 (16 with battery) Euros per month for access to one or two good spells?


 

Edited by Rocklobstar
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Now, I don't know much about fancy priest stuff but I don't think the overhaul has to be so complicated.

 

As a new player, the main issue I see is the unbalanced spell lists that make some gods almost obsolete.

 

Why don't we just split the gods into groups or 'Pantheons'? Many faiths in history have worshiped a whole array of gods all at once such as in greek and norse mythology. We could have a light and dark side (Or something similar). Each group could have their own set of shared spells (Which can be linked with other priest in the same god group) and each individual god have either a unique spell or a special trait for their priests.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Journey
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On 11/6/2017 at 7:13 PM, Rocklobstar said:

 

Rather round-about way of saying "Were going to nerf smeagain (possibly vyn) to the ground, and slightly buff others"...

Being a priest already has such gigantic drawbacks..how many priest's will we need now for full spell coverage? 4? 6? how many batteries will those need?

Paying 8 (16 with battery) Euros per month for access to one or two good spells?


 

This is a good point. 

 

"Rebalancing" can mean shuffling around spells to make most gods marginally useful, or "balanced". This would be an atrocity in and of itself. No one wants a priest than can marginally enchant a weapon, and marginally be good on pvp. People who want pvp want a priest that is good at PVP, and people who want to enchant want a priest who is good at enchanting. Numbing down the "good" priest classes into a bunch of mediocre ones would be a travesty, and would thus render all priests useless. I for one would find it abhorent to have a priest that is only slightly better than a regular character at pvp, especially with all the drawbacks priests get. For example, having a priest who can only oakshell, but can also put WoA on a weapon would be worthless for a fighter. Same as a priest who can cast only CoC and also has a 20% damage increase would be worthless to an enchanter.

 

One way to "rebalance" the gods is making more spells available to each of them. For example, instead of taking CoC from Vynora and giving her Oakshell, it would be better to just give Vynora Oakshell. This will give said Vynora priest a chance to be able to participate better at PVP, while at the same time remaining an enchanting powerhouse. Other methods of rebalancing could include removing non enchanter spells from enchanter priests and giving them something more akin to their profession, and thus enhancing their use in a better way.

 

Reclassifying Gods is also a good way to go about this. Take for example Nathan. Its an almost good balance between an enchanter and a pvp character, but it really fails miserably at both. It can't be a reliable healer (No Heal or Light of Fo spell, only a targetted cure which will only get you killed in combat with how complicated it is to cast) has no oakshell, which is an excellent survival spell for a priest, given priests get penalties for wearing armor (and frankly, pvping in cloth will just get you slaughtered), but it has willowspine and the mag damage bonus. It is also the only other priest who has CoC and Frostbrand, but no WoA and no Nimbleness. It can't properly enchant neither weapons nor tools, which makes it a second rate enchanter at best. These problems can be adressed by reclassifying the priest as an either combat or an enchanting priest, thus putting more of one type of spells (and skills) while removing others. Rebalancing the priest would require more effort as new classifications would need to be created, and its spells modified to fit. Examples would be: Warrior Priest, Evoker, Naturist, Enchanter, Necromancer, Elementalist, etc. This system gives a more clear option, and those entering into this type of priesthood would know exactly what they would be walking into, and what to expect and specialize in.

 

There are many more ways to go about it, but simply reshuffling all the spells to making all priests the same will just be a poor choice, and would pretty much be the nail that seals the coffing on our only other class.

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Personally I never believe the religions were balanced on PVE Cluster even before Playgods as almost no one played Mag and Libila not able to transfer over, which created more grief then just resolving mycelium issue on Freedom;

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A long time ago, 4 or 5 player god ascensions, I made a post basically stating that player gods should never have been full gods.  They should have been placed on the Val map as ascended mortals, if they survived they should have ascended as demi-gods and granted 2 or 3 spells.  Lore Priests could then pick one or two of these Player demi-gods to worship along with one of the lore gods.  The priests can in this way round out their spell list, the main priests of the lore gods wouldn't be eclipsed by the new RNG created god spell lists, you wouldn't have the domain issues you have now.  The Lore would still be intact as to the reasons the gods and their faithful fight.  At this point, I don't know if anyone even reads the lore or if the lore is even still available to be read.  It probably doesn't even matter anymore.

 

I really can't wait to see how the devs are going to balance all of these gods, and then keep them balanced as new gods are added.  For myself I believe that the Devs have heroically set before themselves tasks which are "Sisyphean" in nature.  I wish them all the best, as the World of Wurm rests on the shoulders of these Atlas Devs.

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Rock paper scissors works.  Adding in lizard and spock in doesn't work for wurm.  ( I agree with grumpy) no player God's with spells), or make a list of the spells based on power level and find a distribution method that ensures a lower and less powered collection.

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Honestly I'd just like to be able to improve action on items and continue option on building with a priest. 

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Hmm. Priests -should- be devoted to their god/religion, which means less devotion/attention to other things.

 

But, I agree that the priest penalties seem a clunky/heavy-handed way of enforcing that. What if, instead of no imping/building, each god provided exp bonuses to certain skills, and exp penalties to others? You can still grind all skills in a priest, but facing a 25% penalty in weapon-smithing would be pretty steep, for instance. (Perhaps Magranon, though, would give a bonus to weapon-smithing.)

 

This, of course, doesn't work well with player gods as they are now, and it would probably never work given how much pre-existing history there is with priest accounts. :P

 

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+10% to skillgain for learner god is overpowered.  No other follower ability comes close, and as long as Wurm is Wurm, no other follower ability CAN come close.  As long as a bonus as potent as that is restricted to a scant few gods, only Vynora and Nathan are ever going to be worth following for nonpriests.

 

Axe the various 20-faith follower bonuses (learner, healer, staminabonus, etc) and combine them all into one generic 20-faith bonus that gives a boost to skillgain, stamina regen, healing, etc so that every religion's followers can benefit.  I'd love to follow a god (in good conscience) just because I like it, and not just because it's the best.

 

Also:  shattering needs to go away forever, but I've been vocal about that for years.

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I agree on vyn bonus - keeps me trapped as Vyn Priest. It'd go nathan, but vyn and mag bonus's don't work together in the code AFAIK - Nathan is pretty useless. If vyn bonus wasn't there - i'd switch paaw or gary, or even smeagain :D

 

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Can all priests have same crafting / basic pvp spells for eg:

 

Coc, botd/woa, nimble, RT, LT,  a heal (LOF?), nolo, oak shell, strongwall, locate soul and armour chants (im sure there are other basics)

 

When thinking about god customization can they have a different flavor in terms of some attack spells, Ice pillar, fungus trap, fire pillar and of course the passive bonus the god receives  in influence etc.

 

By keeping the crafting enchants, a basic heal and some other must have pvp spells across the board and give the priest a flavor as above, u can tailor the god to suit lore, keep it pretty well balanced, put up with less OMFG this priest is OP 'civilized' conversations without messing to much up imo.

 

look at the favorite player gods, they are like that because they have the most useful spells for the role they play, I think the above addresses alot of it.

 

Cheers,

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Just move priest spells to skilled priest spells.

 

The more you cast it the higher your skill level the better the spell. Put skill gain in the spell with difficulty on par with gaining channeling.

 

Example.

 

Vyn priest, 20 skill level in CoC with 40 Channeling mean effective skill ( some random brain surgeon calculation ) means an avg of 30ish CoC when cast.

 

That way can just give all the whitelighter priest whitelighter spells, and bl all bl spells and be done with it.  No more random spell list and the 'Oh crap this list is unbalanced fix it later routine' that we've come to expect anytime a new playgod with followers and priests are introduced.

 

This way if a priest chooses to focus on combat, they can, or enchanting, or healing.

 

 

 

 

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On 2017-11-12 at 0:19 AM, Rocklobstar said:

I agree on vyn bonus - keeps me trapped as Vyn Priest. It'd go nathan, but vyn and mag bonus's don't work together in the code AFAIK - Nathan is pretty useless. If vyn bonus wasn't there - i'd switch paaw or gary, or even smeagain :D

 

 

What do you mean by they dont go together in the code? Does nathan not give 25% bonus to dmg at 40 favor? 

 

 

These are all Nathan codes if they are working as intended


hateGod = true (Uses Black Light. Uses negative alignment. Pray on corpses. Half stamina loss on Mycelium at 60 faith and 30+ favor.)
roadProtector = true (Half stamina loss on roads at 60 faith and 30+ favor.)
itemProtector = true (Reduced decay of foods in inventory)
warrior = true (Uses Soul Strength instead of Soul Depth for champion. Gets +25% damage bonus at 40 faith and 20+ favor. 25% increased skill gain for fighting skills at 20 faith and 20+ favor.)
repairer = true (+10 bonus to improve actions at 80 faith and 40+ favor.
learner = true (10% increased skill gain at 20 faith and 10+ favor.)
woodAffinity = true (Double favor from sacrificing wood items.)
befriendCreature = true (Animals are not hostile at 60 faith and 30+ favor.)
staminaBonus = true (25% bonus to passive stamina regeneration when not fighting at 20 faith and 10+ favor.)
clayAffinity = true (Double favor from sacrificing pottery items.)
clothAffinity = true (Double favor from sacrificing cloth items.)

Edited by Nocturnes

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I would be okay if all players gods were removed to be honest, even if im using a player god myself

Edited by Nocturnes
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1 hour ago, Nocturnes said:

 

What do you mean by they dont go together in the code? Does nathan not give 25% bonus to dmg at 40 favor? 

 

 

These are all Nathan codes if they are working as intended


hateGod = true (Uses Black Light. Uses negative alignment. Pray on corpses. Half stamina loss on Mycelium at 60 faith and 30+ favor.)
roadProtector = true (Half stamina loss on roads at 60 faith and 30+ favor.)
itemProtector = true (Reduced decay of foods in inventory)
warrior = true (Uses Soul Strength instead of Soul Depth for champion. Gets +25% damage bonus at 40 faith and 20+ favor. 25% increased skill gain for fighting skills at 20 faith and 20+ favor.)
repairer = true (+10 bonus to improve actions at 80 faith and 40+ favor.
learner = true (10% increased skill gain at 20 faith and 10+ favor.)
woodAffinity = true (Double favor from sacrificing wood items.)
befriendCreature = true (Animals are not hostile at 60 faith and 30+ favor.)
staminaBonus = true (25% bonus to passive stamina regeneration when not fighting at 20 faith and 10+ favor.)
clayAffinity = true (Double favor from sacrificing pottery items.)
clothAffinity = true (Double favor from sacrificing cloth items.)

he's referring to the skillgain bonuses.

if learner exists, the warrior fighting skillgain bonus isnt checked.

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