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Grumpysmith

Priest / Religion overhaul

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If priests had zero restrictions, why would you not be one?  Anyone asking for changes to remove that aspect wants wurm to become wow. Theme parked and easy mode. o7

Edited by Brew
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Just to clarify, as I feel some have gotten the wrong idea here:

 

Our focus on this is not to change the foundation mechanics of priests, but rather balancing of spells, passive abilities and how they all work together,

 

A major part of our focus will be addressing player gods and the random generation of spells leading to combinations that are overpowered, and also looking at spell sets of the original gods as each spell individually to see if it's balanced properly.

 

While ideas such as the ones presented in here are interesting, and may be included in later discussions, in this thread we're looking for more issues with individual things being unbalanced by themselves or in combination with other spells or abilities. 

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Ah, in that case I'd say the biggest and most important spells, CoC, LT, Nim, BotD, should be distributed 1 each across the 4 original gods and never appear on the randomly generated lists.

 

This would ensure they never get completely replaced by whatever broken skill lists are generated in the future. Basically I have no faith in randomly generated spell lists won't be broken.

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Refresh

Refresh can only be cast on players with alignment acceptable to the priest casting. With player

gods, priests cannot cast refresh on players from their own kingdom if they follow the 'wrong'

religion.

  • Change alignment check into a kingdom check, so priests can cast on anyone from their kingdom.

 

Oakshell

A horse with an oakshell cast has higher damage resistance than a barding, and there is no speed

penalty.

  • Reduce the armour modifier for oakshell by 10%

Direct damage spells

The direct damage spells (rotting gut, worm brains, fire heart, ice shard) are not well balanced in

relation to each other. Rotting gut wounds always hit the torso, and worm brains always hits the

head, so these wounds always stack. Worm brains does around double the damage of any other direct

damage spell, it does not have any spell resistance effect, and it's internal wounds cannot be healed

using cotton. Rotting gut's infection wounds are more likely to become worse with healing ticks.

 

So, rotting gut and worm brains are more powerful. This is partly balanced by longer cast timers and

higher favour costs. But a large supply of vesseled gems eliminates the drawback of high favour

costs, and the spell resistances reduce the benefit of spell-spamming with short cast timers.

  • Add a spell resistance effect to worm brains
  • Bring the cast timers of fireheart and shard of ice to 15 seconds
  • Increase damage of fireheart and shard of ice by 10%

Damage pillar spells

Fungus trap is the highest damage pillar. It inflicts poison wounds that cannot be healed using

cotton and that have a chance to instantly kill the player on healing ticks. Tentacles is the second

highest damage and since it has no animation it is less obvious. Fire pillar and ice pillar are

significantly weaker.

  • Reduce damage of fungus trap wounds by 10%
  • Increase damage of fire pillar and ice pillar wounds by 10%
  • Add an animation for the tentacles area effect

Spell combinations for player gods

The original gods break some of these 'rules', but that can be the advantage of the original four.

  • Maximum of 2 direct damage spells: rotting gut, worm brains, fire heart, ice shard
  • Maximum of 1 of the big healing spells: heal, light of fo, scorn of libila
  • Maximum of 1 of the taming spells: dominate, rebirth, charm
  • Maximum of 1 of the pillar spells: fungus trap, ice pillar, fire pillar, tentacles
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23 hours ago, Darmalus said:

Ah, in that case I'd say the biggest and most important spells, CoC, LT, Nim, BotD, should be distributed 1 each across the 4 original gods and never appear on the randomly generated lists.

 

This would ensure they never get completely replaced by whatever broken skill lists are generated in the future. Basically I have no faith in randomly generated spell lists won't be broken.

100% agreed these make each of the four different

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Those 4 spells might be the most important spells for you but there are many other spells that the 4 main priests have.  Some make the priest better in combat, etc.  So more than just that needs to be looked at.

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Asking the community for suggestions on changing something so sensitive is akin to a multinational CFO asking some homeless guy on the street how to invest millions in capital.

 

Good Luck.

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We already have our own goals, and our own plans, but community feedback on how things feel ingame help us in many ways.

 

Suggestions on what or how to fix something might not be ones we can use, but they can certainly highlight an issue that we can look at addressing and making sure it fits in with what we want from the changes too.

 

Feedback and discussion are great tools in helping players feel a part of the discussion, there may be disagreeances with the goals, or the methods of reaching those goals between players, but it helps us get a good overview of what the players are seeing/feeling, so I'm happy to go through these and see how they line up with our already in progress works. 

 

I'd liken it more to taking feedback and suggestions and market research than anything else

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Sure, i completely understand, but directly just asks for extreme bias.

 

I'd honestly love to give you real professional input, but that costs. A freebie would be :

 

Instead of posts like this, that really do not give a lot of insight into a particular issue and are very short-sighted, why after 10+ years is there no market insights into your paying customers? aka - in game polls for premium players? And asking questions that pertain not to a particular interest, but to determine possible direction and strategy in the future?

 

Then again, i would send in someone in your position to "make a presence" and make everyone feel special despite the relative valueless opinions posted. ;)

 

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Ingame polls are quite often skewed, and I prefer to rely on broader options, not only taking part in discussions like these but also taking feedback on suggestions raised, comments on those, discussions in public areas such as the forums, discord, ingame, and also one on one feedback from players and my own personal experience. Relying on premium polls does allow the idea of "if you have more alts you get a bigger say" which doesn't always end well. That said, we've used several in the past and will continue to do so. 

 

 

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On 10/28/2017 at 11:39 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Player gods need a serious rethink, the notion of relegating them to "saints" or some other minor role would promote balance without needing to rethink all spells.  Otherwise you might as well remove most of the elder gods now because the RNG will always break whatever balance you enforce

Mag real sad now that ol sme is around. :(

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Smeagain priests are hands down the best PvP priests.

 

They get the great PvP mag passives such as 25% damage and res stone.

 

They get the best defensive PvP spells (oakshell for horses, light of fo for group healing, heal for boatfight healing)

 

They get TWO pillar spells to use for offensive group AOE damage.

 

 

Nothing else comes close and pretty much all PvP priests are smeagain now. We used to think Nathan was OP, and that was the meta for awhile, but wow smeagain spellset is waaaaay more imbalanced than we thought possible.

 

If you want balanced priests in PvP, then I think you have to manually balance the spells rather than leaving them to be randomly generated.

 

Idk how many would agree with this, but I think player gods should be removed from PvP, or perhaps just have their PvP spells removed, leaving their enchants.  I've had friends ask if player gods are removed yet, and saying they would only come back if player gods are removed.

 

They really upset the balance in PvP 

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34 minutes ago, Alexgopen said:

player gods are removed.

I'm okay with player gods. I do not like the idea of followable player gods that grant spells.

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Regarding player gods, seriously changing the existing ones now would produce a major impact.  Whether you like them or hate them, they've been in the game for long enough now that people have built their personal game around them, and removing that is just problematic, on so many levels.  Personally, I'm fine with the player gods as they are - I'd oppose any changes to basic stuff like spell lists, etc.

 

Regarding linking, how about making links between different faith priests only get favour at a 2-1 rate?  So a vyn linking with another vyn gets to use favour as it is now, a vyn linking to a fo only gets 1 favour of use for every 2 favour the fo supplies.  There's already the spell difficulty boost from having links, so there is already some incentive not to just link with everything in sight - can increase the difficulty bump if you want that to be more of a disincentive.

 

I've generally found that finding another priest to link with hasn't been a problem, at least on pve.  I've provided nacho links for others to cast LT several times, and used others as a vyn source.  Yes, if you want to be able to do it all yourself, then you need to jump through the hoops.  There are plenty of good communities around if you'd prefer to play socially.  And there are a few brave souls who play priest mains (with no alts) - it's possible, with a few good friends to play with, but I don't think it's a path I'd choose.

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15 minutes ago, Wonka said:

Regarding player gods, seriously changing the existing ones now would produce a major impact.  Whether you like them or hate them, they've been in the game for long enough now that people have built their personal game around them, and removing that is just problematic, on so many levels.  Personally, I'm fine with the player gods as they are - I'd oppose any changes to basic stuff like spell lists, etc.

 

When major priest changes have previously happened, players have been given the option to transfer their faith to another deity. I personally feel that's fair compensation, even if player gods were completely removed.

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46 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

When major priest changes have previously happened, players have been given the option to transfer their faith to another deity. I personally feel that's fair compensation, even if player gods were completely removed.

 

With respect, I completely disagree.  A major change in the basics of how (for example) nacho priests work would likely leave a number of players without any way to keep doing what they do.  A transfer to another god (which would likely have been nerfed as well) does nothing to fix that.  Player gods are in, and have been in for some time - major nerfs at this stage simply stir up the whole argument all over again, with no real benefit. 

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2 hours ago, Wonka said:

 

With respect, I completely disagree.  A major change in the basics of how (for example) nacho priests work would likely leave a number of players without any way to keep doing what they do.  A transfer to another god (which would likely have been nerfed as well) does nothing to fix that.  Player gods are in, and have been in for some time - major nerfs at this stage simply stir up the whole argument all over again, with no real benefit. 

 

What if they removed all of them except nahjo? Nobody uses nahjo in pvp so if freedom wants to keep nahjo then by all means keep it. 

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remove player gods on epic only then

 

keep them so freedomers can have their nahjo priests or whatever

 

pvpers want to roleplay in pvp as followers/priests of their respective gods

 

plskthx

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On 10/30/2017 at 9:54 PM, Darmalus said:

Ah, in that case I'd say the biggest and most important spells, CoC, LT, Nim, BotD, should be distributed 1 each across the 4 original gods and never appear on the randomly generated lists.

 

In other words: "split these up so those of us who have several priests can benefit at the expense of everyone else!"

 

Please don't take terrible suggestions like this seriously, Retro.

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Remove player God's from pvp, but allow them all 1 time transfer options to the template gods if the pvp spells are removed.  So no one feels wasted time on grinding 

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Can libila get Genesis or is that too op to share it with fo?

 

Even if it was half as effective.

Edited by Brew
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4 hours ago, Wonka said:

 

With respect, I completely disagree.  A major change in the basics of how (for example) nacho priests work would likely leave a number of players without any way to keep doing what they do.  A transfer to another god (which would likely have been nerfed as well) does nothing to fix that.  Player gods are in, and have been in for some time - major nerfs at this stage simply stir up the whole argument all over again, with no real benefit. 

Fountain pans has been in game for so much years before they were removed so that argument is not realy valid for removing player gods if transfer to original gods is provided...

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I suspect the best option (at the moment) would be to remove player gods entirely and allow existing player god priests a free convert.

 

Once that has been done, focus on balancing the existing gods (both for PvP and PvE).  Once you have that balance established, then it might be possible to balance player gods (in some way).

If you want to keep player gods, consider rendering them as some kind of saint (as suggested here).

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I agree with the removal of Player Gods from Epic.  Leave them on Freedom.  There is no place for player Gods in the lore regarding the reasons the groups are fighting each other.  On Freedom, it simply doesn't matter.  If someone wants an item enchanting priest they can choose the one with the spells they want.  If they want a priest with spells for helping with Unique battles they can pick the one that best suits their needs.  The same for breeders.

 

There is already the precedent of banning Libila from Freedom due to the perceived incompatibility of her characteristics with the Freedom play style. This change would not be inconsequential to me, as I have a Lib Priest and two Tosiek Priests (one for a battery).  But I believe it would be much better for maintaining PvP balance on Epic.

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