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Psalamon

I have finally figured this out..

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49 minutes ago, Niki said:

I don't want this game to become easy, we recently got tree collision back and I personally want more immersion in my gaming experience. Monsters that actually are threatening for higher tier players, world traps - you stumble upon a npc's bear trap and cannot move without the proper tools. Monsters invading your villages. Actual threatening weather conditions, if it's cold you suffer without wearing warm clothing, to hot you dehydrate faster, I think you get the idea. Plenty more where that came from in my head.

 

There is actually a couple of games in production with this kind of stuff. They are in alpha stage though. Been reading game news a bunch lately because I wasn't even playing a game/bored. Citadel : Forged with Fire is one of them I believe. That, or another one I was reading about has 'cutesy' goblins that actually raid people's villages, and you're supposed to hunt them down and kill them to get stuff. It all sounds intriguing, except they almost exclusively put a PvP tag on these games and I have zero desire to play non-consensual PvP. One of them had stuff where you could 'enslave' elementals (You're a wizard) and depending on what you grabbed/pull out at the time, they give buffs/debuffs to things like weather problems. (Fire elemental vs cold of night was an example.)

Do I want them to totally change Wurm into another game? No. Wurm has a certain aesthetic. It's got it's own unique charm. It needs re-doing in some areas, but the overall thing is there.

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I don't want this game to become easy, we recently got tree collision back and I personally want more immersion in my gaming experience. Monsters that actually are threatening for higher tier players, world traps - you stumble upon a npc's bear trap and cannot move without the proper tools. Monsters invading your villages. Actual threatening weather conditions, if it's cold you suffer without wearing warm clothing, to hot you dehydrate faster, I think you get the idea. Plenty more where that came from in my head.

 

 

You want the game to become more of a chore?  I'd like more of a challenge, but it be a choice, not thrust open upon everyone. This is in the grand minority of players.

 

I think most of you have completely lost the concept of what drives games and what Wurm is completely lacking for the new players experience. Then again, i think most of you had no idea in the first place. New players do not play this game because of reasons behind development, past and future. It's not blame, it's a symptom. If you scare customers out of your retail store by acting in a certain manner, you'll end up with less coming inside to buy things, until nobody bothers with you anymore.

 

I do like how a lot of you seem to think "oh well, it's a niche game, get lost then" is somehow a smart comment. lol.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Niki said:

I think what we can get out of this thread is fairly simple. The game lacks giving new players advice on the dangers of the Wurm wilderness for sure. How do you fix something like that you might ask? Tutorial, more explained systems - this game has to much "Wogic" so something you think works like that in the real world doesn't exactly apply to Wurm. You might think your starter equipment is plenty good enough, because in other games you actually stand a chance with your starter set for a few levels. Personally it should be enough but then you have certain enemies that don't play nice such as trolls, hell hounds. One of the most common work around for issues like this is, scaling technology. Basically have monsters scale with your fight skill and equipment. That way low level players don't feel the extreme disparity, and have a decent chance to win a battle early on without using guards all the time, the guard system feels like a band-aid to this issue that has plagued Wurm for many years. High tier players can actually have some interesting fights with the AI. I'd recommend keeping this off for pvp purposes. Combat rework should also be considered to be part of that update, it's pretty hard to enjoy turn based combat in 2017.

 

To touch up with what I mean with more explained systems:

 A lot of people don't know that food can be stored in a food storage bin without decay for example. When I first started I didn't use the Wurmpedia until a very long time after, I'm the type of player that is keen on figuring systems out for myself. Systems like that should be better baked into the game for those that do not mesh well with problem solving. The current iteration isn't easily found at least in my opinion and doesn't always work. There are several other ways to get a new player to understand something, we really ought to think outside the box when finding a solution to a problem. Other games use tutorial videos on youtube, it works wonders.

 

I don't want this game to become easy, we recently got tree collision back and I personally want more immersion in my gaming experience. Monsters that actually are threatening for higher tier players, world traps - you stumble upon a npc's bear trap and cannot move without the proper tools. Monsters invading your villages. Actual threatening weather conditions, if it's cold you suffer without wearing warm clothing, to hot you dehydrate faster, I think you get the idea. Plenty more where that came from in my head.

 

This game is a sandbox, but it lacks simple things that get my blood flowing and I'm sure it also isn't as engaging as it should be. Pvp is great but a lot of us are not into losing items from internet dropping connection or just client side lag which is pretty common in Wurm. Everything has risks early on and I do think the risks should stay, but with a proper solution and not hand holding players. It'll get to a point where the risk isn't there at high level, and that kind of sucks but it is what it is. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Level scaling is one of the worst game systems I've ever encountered, and as a newbie on Epic, I very much appreciated that Wurm -doesn't- have scaling. Scaling means you never feel like you're progressing, and you never get that wonderful feeling of utterly destroying a mob that was once your worst nightmare.

 

I also like the fact that Wurm combat is mostly turn-based and not twitch-based; that mitigates lag issues (which will always affect twitch-based combat more). (RNG is another matter, but I suppose one can't have everything. :P )

 

Also as a newbie, it was made very obvious to me that Wurmpedia was essential. I lived in it when starting the game (and pretty much still do). If a newbie doesn't find it, though, I'm not sure what more the game can do.

 

Oh, and I had no problem as a newbie on Serenity, at least. I always stayed near guard towers, called for help, and attacked mobs whose aggro was on guards. Not even a champion deathcrawler was a problem. I was very careful to not venture far from towers, and I would slowly move and scan the surroundings for monsters. If I found one (and on Epic, that's not hard), I would plan out how to lure it to a tower, by itself, so I didn't have to deal with multiple aggro. Also, I became familiar with zones where guards would come help, so that if I got surprised, I had an escape route.

 

I didn't die once.

 

In some ways, I'll admit, it was probably easier on Epic, because there were plenty of unclaimed resources near the starter deed, and I didn't have to go far. Also, there were a few very helpful hermits. :)

 

Once I had a horse, incidentally, dealing with mobs instantly became easy (anything you can't outfight you can outrun; you're no longer impacted by the hurting debuff). I still think the 21 body control requirement seems odd, though. I imped an awful lot of spindles in order to ride that horse. :P

 

Oh, and there was decent chainmail at the default deed traders (and that's actually why I imped those spindles; I traded spindles for my first chainmail set, not realizing I was also grinding the skill needed to ride a horse, which was a happy accident).

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11 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

Level scaling is one of the worst game systems I've ever encountered, and as a newbie on Epic, I very much appreciated that Wurm -doesn't- have scaling. Scaling means you never feel like you're progressing, and you never get that wonderful feeling of utterly destroying a mob that was once your worst nightmare.

 

I also like the fact that Wurm combat is mostly turn-based and not twitch-based; that mitigates lag issues (which will always affect twitch-based combat more). (RNG is another matter, but I suppose one can't have everything. :P )

 

Also as a newbie, it was made very obvious to me that Wurmpedia was essential. I lived in it when starting the game (and pretty much still do). If a newbie doesn't find it, though, I'm not sure what more the game can do.

 

Oh, and I had no problem as a newbie on Serenity, at least. I always stayed near guard towers, called for help, and attacked mobs whose aggro was on guards. Not even a champion deathcrawler was a problem. I was very careful to not venture far from towers, and I would slowly move and scan the surroundings for monsters. If I found one (and on Epic, that's not hard), I would plan out how to lure it to a tower, by itself, so I didn't have to deal with multiple aggro. Also, I became familiar with zones where guards would come help, so that if I got surprised, I had an escape route.

 

I didn't die once.

 

In some ways, I'll admit, it was probably easier on Epic, because there were plenty of unclaimed resources near the starter deed, and I didn't have to go far. Also, there were a few very helpful hermits. :)

 

Once I had a horse, incidentally, dealing with mobs instantly became easy (anything you can't outfight you can outrun; you're no longer impacted by the hurting debuff). I still think the 21 body control requirement seems odd, though. I imped an awful lot of spindles in order to ride that horse. :P

 

Oh, and there was decent chainmail at the default deed traders (and that's actually why I imped those spindles; I traded spindles for my first chainmail set, not realizing I was also grinding the skill needed to ride a horse, which was a happy accident).

I am not sure we are thinking of the same thing here, look at WoW for example you start out with nothing but your able to kill things without much challenge these days. You get gear and progress, at endgame you are still able to kill things easier. I play a paladin and one judgment makes quick work these days at 944 ilvl vs what it would take if you had less gear and skill. The current iteration of wow has a new type of scaling which works quite well, a lvl 109 can be attacking something and a level 110 can also, it does some math to make everything balanced and they both get rewarded. I think it's shouldn't feel like a endless grind with the scaling technology - obviously. When you get more powerful gear, imped items - the breakpoints should occur and it'll work itself out if the code is fluid. If done right and not half-baked, it would feel very balanced.

 

To touch up on your other points: I think indeed epic has it easier then freedom for newer players as I have also experienced similar, it didn't take long to kill anything at 1 fight skill and some starter gear I made or found.

 

11 hours ago, Shazaam said:

 

 

You want the game to become more of a chore?  I'd like more of a challenge, but it be a choice, not thrust open upon everyone. This is in the grand minority of players.

 

I think most of you have completely lost the concept of what drives games and what Wurm is completely lacking for the new players experience. Then again, i think most of you had no idea in the first place. New players do not play this game because of reasons behind development, past and future. It's not blame, it's a symptom. If you scare customers out of your retail store by acting in a certain manner, you'll end up with less coming inside to buy things, until nobody bothers with you anymore.

 

I do like how a lot of you seem to think "oh well, it's a niche game, get lost then" is somehow a smart comment. lol.

 

 

Rifts already have traps which can kill you if your not careful - it doesn't even have a model. None of my examples have to be used either. I do think more people want more challenging elements in the game though. If all you do is imp in a house all day, it wouldn't really affect you.

 

Choice is possible, drink a potion and now your trusted into a alternative reality world of perpetual darkness with monsters trying to kill you all over. This would be a unique way to grind FS faster possibly with a reward for kill count, if you die you wake up where you were, no skills lost. I actually work in the gaming industry, so I have some inkling on how and what people expect these days content wise, and punishing the player to much without the skills isn't good by design. Example with high teir content such as trolls, hellhounds chasing you endlessly doesn't exactly seem reasonable. I am not a fan to just say "Deal with it noob or get lost!" or even "Back in my day I had to swim across servers to get to where I wanted to go. This is nothing!" They're are ways to fix issues like this without ruining the challenge.

 

I get that people have and will do this but they are also part of the underlining problem. Even people being excessively nice can make or break a new player from playing which happens all the time in Wurm. This includes hand-holding (villages), offering free weapons, tools, telling them to use external solutions such as Wurmpedia or telling them to much about something with extreme tact or detail. Well if this was me, I'd be like "uh, thanks dude?" I'd probably quit personally, I have in other games when people do this to me. It's like taking the fun out of figuring it out for yourself. 

 

I literally started playing Wurm with no help whatsoever, I didn't even join a village, didn't use Wurmpedia for at least a few months and when I did I felt like I was cheating. I learn best when left to my own devices. I took advantage of using some of my real world knowledge and focused on the trading, cause that's what I did in Ultima and it felt right to me. Then I focused on dissecting all the game systems to understand them better.  I loved the challenge early on, it was scary but beautiful at the same time. I enjoy very hard games and getting frustrated trying to figure it out even. It's a huge reason why I play games. I do realize players like me are in the minority these days, but I do think this game has become to easy lately and it's losing the "good old days feel" which sold me into the game. I think this is a problem and simply ignoring needs to end.

 

Enjoyed reading both of your posts, thanks.

Edited by Niki
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Sooooooooo. .. Did the guy get his many corpses back?  Was it ever actually clarified where up north he was or was heading to? Even a grid reference? :) up north can be fun  to a hungry axe :)

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On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎23 at 0:12 PM, Sorionfox said:

Sooooooooo. .. Did the guy get his many corpses back?  Was it ever actually clarified where up north he was or was heading to? Even a grid reference? :) up north can be fun  to a hungry axe :)

 

oh yeah I got my shiit back.. we'll poor Betsy and Bobby are waiting retrieval but I was more interested in my personal items.. and my lucky silver coin I carry everywhere.. but I may go back for my horses  and leave the cart behind.. RRrrRRrRRrRRrRrrrolls can live on in the bushes..and horse equipment doesn't decay too fast on hoses.. but I t was an epic battle me naked with a huge axe in one hand.. and me tossing myself down rock faces skidding to as stop three trolls two hell hounds and some frigging bears which turned out to be the biggest problem as at the end I had to throw myself in the water and swim away I even used last gasp or tried to but you know the option never showed up when I needed so iso right at the end of my stamina by climbing clicks over to normal and I just made it sideways onto the shore.. man was that a  keyboard gripping battle I lll tell my grandkids about when they are to play online games.. and inch by inch I inched along the shore with 89% damage and swimming refreshing swimming walking refreshing till I healed a but and went home in victory.. a little real world snow boarding on my feet and a splash in vrock lake and I beat away those mofos.. hehehe.. yeah it was truly extraordinary and I had a beer after that and went to my new village and some prick had ripped up four ogf my new lemon trees that I carefully brought from my old deed and guess what I went prem again.. because you may give up on this game but this game NEVER gives up on you!!! but funny as the guy in Mr Robot says what do normal people do when they are this upset oh yeah they go talk to friends and family... oh well.. sniiffffffffffffffffffffffff....  take care peoples.. and thanks @Corsan you gave me the push I needed to spite the buggers who obviously were no help.. thanks again..and thanks BombaySteve for grabbing me naked cold and afraid in that cave by your house and giving me a place to belong.. sorry my fan club ruined it for us.. they;'ve been pestering me for 20 years it seems.. 

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Dude uh you can easily outrun mobs if you are wearing light armor even if you get hit you can easily recover.  Use water, use the shoreline some mobs are faster on land then in water most can't go in water I mean you can kite anything just about away from where you're trying to get to.  I mean kiting mmorpg 101?

 

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