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Budda

Some Epic Things

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1 hour ago, Cerber said:

 

personally i play this game for the grind, just like others play it for pvp, pve or just chill around

i go for various 100 skills and i spend months (or years for some) grinding to get them, so ofc i find it unfair when other people get them more easily

if i had to guess a pvp analogy, it would be as if your enemy kingdom received free tomes/bonuses . would you find that fair?

 

Someone coming with a transfer isn't going to make your skills drop. Your skills wouldn't, and aren't, affected by it. It's your perception of it that appears to be the issue here.

 

Enemy kingdoms already do. It's called Valrei Scenarios, and just like grinding skills on either cluster, it takes effort.

 

1 hour ago, Galatyn said:

 

It invalidates the time and work we invested in our skills.  I have 90 nat subs, the Rainbow Maker title, and I wear that title with pride because I know not many people have it.  It means I spent a lot of time and effort grinding that skill and now someone from Epic is able to achieve that same result with much less time and effort spent, i.e. free skill gain?    Transferring 1:1 is an insult and directly goes against the grinding principle of this game.

 

So what stops you wearing that title with pride, knowing that you went through the longer grind for it? Why do you need other people to make you feel validated?

 

Someone coming from Epic with a skill transfer isn't suddenly going to make your skills decrease, you know.

 

31 minutes ago, whykillme said:

I think all ya Epic fokes are forgetting that freedom DID NOT ASK FOR THIS. We could not care less if your cluster died and we'd be fine with a seperate cluster and just let Epic bleed out as it is. We are getting screwed over by the devs aswell because they are trying to fix YOUR cluster and they're hurting us in the process. The goal to make a challange like skiling server can be done with a new cluster just fine.

 

I think you're forgetting that us Epic folks didn't ask for our cluster to die, nor for it to be left for nigh on two years Of course you couldn't care, you're not being affected by it. Is it really that difficult to show some damn empathy for your fellow Wurmian?

 

You are not getting "screwed", you are not being "hurt". That's a false belief beyond words.

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lol @ the people saying epic is being exploited for skills

 

old players are coming back the same as they did for the map reset.  something sparked interest so they came back thinking there would be activity to kill people.  if they enjoyed wurm for grinding they wouldn't have quit in the first place

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2 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

lol @ the people saying epic is being exploited for skills

 

old players are coming back the same as they did for the map reset.  something sparked interest so they came back thinking there would be activity to kill people.  if they enjoyed wurm for grinding they wouldn't have quit in the first place

 

nope

 

im exploiting botanizing right now so when i port over to freedom i can buy 1 sunkist a month by selling 20k belladonna to people

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27 minutes ago, Firestarter said:

So what stops you wearing that title with pride, knowing that you went through the longer grind for it

 

Interestingly, I suspect that is one of the skills that is harder on epic, would need dev to confirm, but it could be said he got the title on ez-mode.

 

Edit: well should say I was pretty sure, not so sure since concrete was introduced.

Edited by Czartemp
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3 hours ago, Cerber said:

 

 received free tomes/bonuses 

 

35 minutes ago, Firestarter said:

 

Enemy kingdoms already do. It's called Valrei Scenarios, and just like grinding skills on either cluster, it takes effort.

 

 

if it takes effort, it's not free....

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Concrete is pretty crappy to make. I had to fix some mine issues with heights and levels after mine bridges were introduced. Had to waste 1000s of ash to make concrete, albeit the skillgain from concrete is very very good. But even on sleep bonus, I got about 2 points after making 2k concrete. On...Sleep...bonus. With natural substances afinity to boot. From 59-61. So yeah, I wouldn't exactly know about easy mode on epic. Took me around 6 months to grind platesmithing (sleep bonus only) to 100. Not easy. Last few ticks took around 200 hours. 

 

Please stop insulting Epic skilgain. A lot of people make it out that we do 2 actions and we get from 1-50 in 30 seconds. We don't gain skill that way. Often times we don't even get skill ticks. 

 

As someone with about 30 skills to 90, it's not easy. Trust me. Took years of grinding work (and some therapy) to get there. And guess what? 6 years later  I still don't have 50 body stamina like a lot of freedom people nor am I attacking freedom people for earning theirs, but I'm not complaining about that, so why attack us because we want to preserve the few skills we have actually earned? 

Edited by elentari
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Well, we know that we're not going to be allowed to transfer from Epic to Freedom with items, so I for one will be shopping when I get back, using this thread as a reference I can now say there are some people who won't be getting my business.

 

Perhaps if everyone from Epic who did transfer to Freedom did this it might affect the market for certain players, but that just means others get the business of refitting, retooling and rearming those who do choose to stay on Freedom.

 

Reputations are not just won and lost in the marketplace, not just by deeds, sometimes a few words is all it takes for people to lose respect for players they formerly would have happily gone to for the tools and weapons they need to live.

 

I won't mention any names, but I can read, and decide for myself who does not deserve my business in future ;)

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I'll buy from Zenity if he wants to sell me some good mallets. 

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10 minutes ago, Cerber said:

 

 

if it takes effort, it's not free....

 

Exactly. Just like our skills on Epic.

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23 minutes ago, Cerber said:

 

 

if it takes effort, it's not free....

 

Yeah cos killing a unique is effort right?

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these guys will go on my ignore / KoS either way lol

pathetic really...

 

you are making yourself enemies, nothing else

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12 minutes ago, elentari said:

But even on sleep bonus, I got about 2 points after making 2k concrete. On...Sleep...bonus. With natural substances afinity to boot. From 59-61. 

 

concrete is one of the worst skillgain there is, i tried. make healing covers of 15 potency if you're still around that skill level (or tooth + gland if you're already higher, 20 potency)

 

4 minutes ago, Firestarter said:

 

Exactly. Just like our skills on Epic.

 

so you did effort to grind your skill to 100, grats

i did close to twice the effort you did to grind mine to 100, why is my extra effort worthless compared to yours?

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So is everyone just ignoring Budda's formula now? Everyone is still talking like we are getting 1:1. Or is the maths meaningless, and you won't be happy until someone with 90 on epic is sent to freedom with 45? Cos that is definitely how it works, for sure.

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I don't know how long it took you to get to 100. But i know you didn't have the Epic curve from 70 to slow you down. Or from 90. So honestly if you really look at the math, after 90 skill, Epic gain and freedom gain are quite similar, why can't you see that? or is this confirmation bias? Do you accept only information that fits into your world view? I'm just trying to understand why are you so vitriolic against Epic players. 

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4 minutes ago, Czartemp said:

So is everyone just ignoring Budda's formula now? Everyone is still talking like we are getting 1:1. Or is the maths meaningless, and you won't be happy until someone with 90 on epic is sent to freedom with 45? Cos that is definitely how it works, for sure.

 

On ‎17‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:51 PM, Retrograde said:

Just to clarify because some seem to have misunderstood it, this change effectively reverses the 2x skillgain,

 

As your skill goes up, the amount of ticks required goes up, this means that it gets very slow on the high end of the scale, double skillgain doesnt mean if epic = 80 freedom = 40,infact, more than half the skill ticks of getting to 80 would be in the 70-80 bracket! 

 

This formula simply reverses the 2x skilltick size and accounts for that growth, if they'd spent the time grinding the skill on freedom, they'd be at 73. Not that huge a difference in the end, and not half. 

 

skill isn't linear, half the ticks from 90 won't be 45

 

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As a freedomer/Chaos player, I fail to see how anyone coming from Epic is going to hurt anything. More people on freedom means more villagers, more friends to make, more deeds built, more things purchased, more roads made. More activity. People. Unless you are playing the game solo mode, this should be a good thing. Subscription numbers have been falling recently and this is a boost to that. Even old players are coming back. How can this be a bad thing? Whats the reason to be mad?

 

Because someone will have better/more skills than you? A bruised ego? Really? Are you so selfish and self centered that the reason to boycott the revival of a possibly dying game is that someone else put more/less/different effort than you did? Get bent buddy.

 

What will naysayers say now? That the game was alive and well? An entire cluster with 400 or so people active is a healthy population? SquareEnix closed servers when FFXI populations dropped below 1000. Ours doesnt even have that across multiple servers and clusters, with some Freedom servers sporting 30-40 people during peak times.

 

Look at your server of choice. How many empty plots, abandoned deeds and wilderness reclaimed areas do you see? And you are fighting because your ego got bruised? And people wonder why Freedom is full of cancerous people, who fight over silly things such as someone building a farm on your perimeter. 

 

I am a Freedomer, and I am glad the Epic guys are coming. And if anyone needs a place to stay, and some starting gear, come to Celebration. My place is yours for as long as you need.

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5 minutes ago, Czartemp said:

So is everyone just ignoring Budda's formula now? Everyone is still talking like we are getting 1:1. Or is the maths meaningless, and you won't be happy until someone with 90 on epic is sent to freedom with 45? Cos that is definitely how it works, for sure.t

 

It's a compromise, it's an improvement on a straight 'no transfer at all' from Epic to Freedom.

It's acceptable to many of the Freedom players, and in the end, it's not like we're being forced to transfer from Epic.

 

Sure, I'd love a 1:1 transfer, but there's already far to much crying over Epic players transferring to Freedom, even when we're losing skills in the transfer, without the possibility we'd actually get to keep all our skills.

 

The fact we're getting a transfer at all, and that characteristics are getting a 1:1 is victory enough for me, I don't feel up to fighting for Epic much more considering the frankly toxic attitude from some players I used to respect on Freedom, it may be mildly unprofessional for me to put it that way, but sorry, I actually feel much more strongly than my words suggest. This is me being as diplomatic and professional as I can manage in the circumstances.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, elentari said:

So honestly if you really look at the math, after 90 skill, Epic gain and freedom gain are quite similar, why can't you see that?

 

here is some math (which has been explained over and over, getting old tbh)

on freedom you get a skillgain of X, at a rate of 50% for a total of 0.5*X

on epic, let's say you get a massive drop in difficulty! (which doesn't happen that fast, but just for the sake of explaining) and you get a rate of 35%

you get a skillgain of 2X by deisgn on epic, for a total of 0.35*2X = 0.7*X

 

which is higher, 0.5 or 0.7?

 

now in reality after 90, you're probably comparing 40% on freedom and 38% on epic so yes you get slightly less ticks, but they're twice bigger

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2 hours ago, whykillme said:

I think all ya Epic fokes are forgetting that freedom DID NOT ASK FOR THIS. We could not care less if your cluster died and we'd be fine with a seperate cluster and just let Epic bleed out as it is. We are getting screwed over by the devs aswell because they are trying to fix YOUR cluster and they're hurting us in the process. The goal to make a challange like skiling server can be done with a new cluster just fine.

 

I'm asking for it!  I like to think I have a good PvP account...

 

https://niarja.com/skill_compare/nddd

 

But when I go to Chaos everyone says I'm still not near powerful enough and my account isn't worth crap.  Now I can go to Epic and finish off this slow grind and get leveled up.  Get body stats up faster will be really nice.  Ccan go HAM on Epic and not care about losing some stats.

 

Epic PvP seems a ton more fun anyways...  Chaos pretty small and will be cool to check out a large Epic.

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3 hours ago, Grumpysmith said:

  Put a fork in it, its done! Close the thread.

Yeah close it, pls.

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Because this discussion involving the entire playerbase is not worth having, alright. 

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34 minutes ago, Cerber said:

 

here is some math (which has been explained over and over, getting old tbh)

on freedom you get a skillgain of X, at a rate of 50% for a total of 0.5*X

on epic, let's say you get a massive drop in difficulty! (which doesn't happen that fast, but just for the sake of explaining) and you get a rate of 35%

you get a skillgain of 2X by deisgn on epic, for a total of 0.35*2X = 0.7*X

 

which is higher, 0.5 or 0.7?

 

now in reality after 90, you're probably comparing 40% on freedom and 38% on epic so yes you get slightly less ticks, but they're twice bigger

 

Look at the graphs, some skills require more time investment on epic to get to certain skill levels. The formula is an attempt to combine the advantages and disadvantages of epic skilling into one rough estimate that can be applied across all skills. We gain a little on some, lose a little on others.

 

In an excruciatingly calculated transfer, probably requiring data the servers do not keep, we'd be seeing both nerfs and buffs. Instead we're getting 1:1 on stats and meditating (still a nerf), and a blanket 1 size-fits-all nerf on everything else, with potentially a temporary 3x boost as an apology for all the nerfing and potentially gimped character builds. It's a decent compromise.

Edited by Czartemp
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42 minutes ago, Cerber said:

 

here is some math (which has been explained over and over, getting old tbh)

on freedom you get a skillgain of X, at a rate of 50% for a total of 0.5*X

on epic, let's say you get a massive drop in difficulty! (which doesn't happen that fast, but just for the sake of explaining) and you get a rate of 35%

you get a skillgain of 2X by deisgn on epic, for a total of 0.35*2X = 0.7*X

 

which is higher, 0.5 or 0.7?

 

now in reality after 90, you're probably comparing 40% on freedom and 38% on epic so yes you get slightly less ticks, but they're twice bigger

 

"Here are the facts: *lists a bunch of guesstimates, probabilities and guessed numbers."

 

Lol

 

Sounds very similar to the recent "I don't play on epic and never have, but my code delving on a game that has a different code says that..." someone else said.

 

2000 posts! Woot!

Edited by Angelklaine
My 2000th post!
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10 minutes ago, Czartemp said:

It's a decent compromise.

 

eh i do think that formula is fair enough, i got no issue with it

for stats i do think stam should get boosted based on mining skill (or whichever skill didn't give stam on epic while it did on freedom)

other stats i guess budda compared between clusters and decided to keep them at 1:1 or i hope he did lol

meditating being a nerf, i don't see that but i'd love to know what tick frequency people at 90 skill get just to compare (assuming they used a 1ql exquisite rug)

and the *3 all the way back to their max skill is just way generous imo lol

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It appears this thread has transferred from epic into chaos (hah) so I wanted to touch on a few things before closing it.

1) Epic isn't going anywhere, all items gathered there are still there, if players make the choice to move from epic to freedom they do so knowing that they take no items, tomes, or meditation paths with them, but that if they return to epic all of them are there and waiting.

 

2) The differences in skilling are not enough to start a major war over! This formula effectively removes the 2x gains per tick (90 on epic is NOT the same as 45 on freedom, the calculation works out how many ticks it takes to get to x on epic, and then applies the freedom skillgain to that many ticks) the 3x bonus is a way of cushioning the blow of the lost skills (which while maybe easier, were still something epic players took pride in!). 


Also, given the curve allowed players to imp past their skill, many did not push them higher than 70 or so, so not only are they coming from epic having their skills reduced, to get back to what they could work at on freedom will take a lot more than just grinding up to the same number they were on on epic.

 

If someone travels to epic to take advantage of the skill transfer back at a later date, they do so knowing that at any point someone could potentially kill them, or a nogump could eat them.
 
3) Last but not least, we're all playing the same game, getting bogged down in who is getting the better end of the deal overlooks the fact that many epic players have already been on freedom for a long time, they just can now play on the accounts they themselves spent time working on, and freedomers can travel to epic and explore the servers, take part in valrei scenarios, and fight valrei mobs (there'll also be more coming too, but shhh).

Worrying about someone else catching up to your skill, trashing your neighbourhood, or someone getting the better end of the deal (either way) overlooks that you now have new people on BOTH clusters to play with and get to know.

 

So thank you all for your feedback, and if you decide to check out affliction after the update, I'll be around.

 

Retrograde

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