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FranktheTank

Ban the sale of accounts

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On 10/16/2017 at 0:09 PM, Damascus said:

Only thing  that keeps Wurm going is the idea you can always cash out if you get bored.

 

This is a game that attracts players because of the option of buying and selling for real money.

Remove said option and this game would be dead in  6 months to a year .

That reason may attract some people.

 

I'd have to disagree it's as important as you say though.  Aren't there as many people playing WU as there are in WO?  I don't really think the draw to WU is the selling of accounts, or other ways for players to make real money.  People play the game because the game is fun.

Yes, some admins have cash shops, but I'm thinking a lot of times that's to pay for servers, mods, etc.

 

Generally, I really think a vast majority of players, in both WO and WU, play Wurm because it is a fun game to play.

On 10/18/2017 at 1:45 AM, Darmalus said:

-1

 

Banning them would not stop them from happening, just make it more fraud prone. Better they happen in the open.

 

I am also unconvinced that sold accounts are a source of the problems they are associated with, rather than a symptom.

 

But if you really want to stop accounts from being sold, have CCAB start buying accounts from players when they wish to be done with the game for silver based on total skills (this could be automated). Then CCAB deletes the character and the person has silver to sell for real $ on the open market. People still get to cash out and those high skill accounts are gone forever.

 

No to CCAB paying players for anything at all.  (Aside from hiring from the player pool)

 

Yes to CCAB being involved though, maybe.  Let's have CCAB be the brokers. 

  1. You want to sell your account, you tell CCAB's Account Marketplace.
  2. CCAB puts a hold on the account and lists it, publishing skills and items included.
  3. When the account sells, CCAB takes a commission and passes on the remaining silver to the original owner.
  4. CCAB resets the email, password of the account to what the new owner has indicated.

Sure, there will still be a black market.  However, they'll be limited by the open marketplace's prices, and they can't provide the kind of security potential buyers get on the open marketplace.

Buyer who sees an account on the black market they like, they can request the seller go through the marketplace for the peace of mind that it's a good trade... or they can report the account for sale to CCAB who inform the seller the account will be placed on the marketplace with punitive damages added to commission.

 

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I can't see this ever happening at this point, but if it did, it would have to be with a 6 month warning, so anyone that ever traded accounts in the past could sell off any investments they made.  I personally think of trading accounts like hiring and firing a work force to get jobs done.  I know others think differently and that is ok.  Just any drastic changes need to come with some grace period to do some final trades.

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What is the difference between making 10k bricks and selling them, or grinding PAS to 90 and selling the account ? You are selling your invested time in the game, and somebody else buys that time to make the game easier for him..

The game needs to attract more players.. the ones that want to buy an account and the ones that want to grind an account.. new players are the solution..

 

On a side note, I would like to see the account name change implemented because I'm tired to say hi to old friends, and people I know, just to find out it's not them anymore.. Once an account is sold, the name should be changed, and the old name never allowed to be used again.

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3 hours ago, faty said:

What is the difference between making 10k bricks and selling them, or grinding PAS to 90 and selling the account ? You are selling your invested time in the game, and somebody else buys that time to make the game easier for him..

The game needs to attract more players.. the ones that want to buy an account and the ones that want to grind an account.. new players are the solution..

 

On a side note, I would like to see the account name change implemented because I'm tired to say hi to old friends, and people I know, just to find out it's not them anymore.. Once an account is sold, the name should be changed, and the old name never allowed to be used again.

 

Or even better, ban account sales, and never allow name changes, then you know who you are saying hi to.

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On 10/20/2017 at 6:34 PM, Kadore said:

Or to put it differently I hope all the old players quit so I sell my stuff, that was tried already with Pristine and Release.

 

I started playing 6 months after the P/R servers opened up. The market was vibrant and great.

Then we merged with the old cluster when Xanapoo opened and the whole market fell through the floor.

Wurm Unlimited, Xanapoo, and connecting P/R to the old cluster were three terrible decisions.

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3 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

I started playing 6 months after the P/R servers opened up. The market was vibrant and great.
 

Aye; there was also a lot of politics and a fair few griefers wanting to keep their monopolies (oaks were rare on P/R because one group of players always cut down any undeeded oaks).

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Nope.

-1

Edited by Shrimpiie

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I have nothing against the idea of banning sale of accounts, but I am going to give a huge -1 to the idea solely based on the fact that all games that have banned sales of accounts, can't do anything to actually stop it, so it would just create extra workload for volunteer staff, and would also mean less players and less income for CC.

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On 10/22/2017 at 1:23 PM, Reylaark said:

That reason may attract some people.

 

I'd have to disagree it's as important as you say though.  Aren't there as many people playing WU as there are in WO?  I don't really think the draw to WU is the selling of accounts, or other ways for players to make real money.  People play the game because the game is fun.

Yes, some admins have cash shops, but I'm thinking a lot of times that's to pay for servers, mods, etc.

 

Generally, I really think a vast majority of players, in both WO and WU, play Wurm because it is a fun game to play.

 

No to CCAB paying players for anything at all.  (Aside from hiring from the player pool)

 

Yes to CCAB being involved though, maybe.  Let's have CCAB be the brokers. 

  1. You want to sell your account, you tell CCAB's Account Marketplace.
  2. CCAB puts a hold on the account and lists it, publishing skills and items included.
  3. When the account sells, CCAB takes a commission and passes on the remaining silver to the original owner.
  4. CCAB resets the email, password of the account to what the new owner has indicated.

Sure, there will still be a black market.  However, they'll be limited by the open marketplace's prices, and they can't provide the kind of security potential buyers get on the open marketplace.

Buyer who sees an account on the black market they like, they can request the seller go through the marketplace for the peace of mind that it's a good trade... or they can report the account for sale to CCAB who inform the seller the account will be placed on the marketplace with punitive damages added to commission.

 

 

I don't usually weigh in on this subject since I see both sides and am not entirely sure which side I agree with most. 

 

I have never been comfortable with such frequent and frivolous account sales as I see in Wurm, compared to other games I've played.  I'm one of those people who, when I speak to a character, I'm always conscious of the person behind that character, I'm talking to the "person" behind that character, and I like to think it's the same person I spoke with the last time I saw that character. I don't just see a "toon" and even the term "toon" has always bothered me.  It's just very disconcerting at times and I find it very ironic that some of the same people who talk of their "immersion" on some subjects, are also people who buy and sell "toons" and see no problem with it.    Imo, the fact that a character I speak with is one person one day, and someone else entirely the next (and never knowing if they really are or not), is the biggest immersion breaker imaginable in any game.  Not to mention the point brought up by others of having someone on your permissions and the account gets sold without you knowing.

 

On the other hand I do see the arguments on the other side. I realize that not everyone is the same.  Not everyone sees the characters as I do, that they merely see "toons," and that there really is no way to stop it anyway.  And since Wurm is so real-world-money oriented (which I also don't care for, but it is what it is), there's also the question of people's investments of time and money, as well as people too busy in rl to level up their own character, etc.  They're all valid arguments, even though in some ways it makes me sad knowing that.

 

I don't really have a solid opinion on what would work, or if it should even be attempted, but I think something along the lines of this suggestion might be palatable to both sides of the argument.

 

edit: referring to Reylaark's suggestion

Edited by Amadee
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-1.  This is Wurm, and this practice has been deemed acceptable by Rolf and company.  The time-sink that Wurm is should have an actual value on the character itself.

 

+1 to Name change on transfer or sale.   Reputations are not for sale.  (Tho I bet several would like to get rid of theirs.)   If it's a new owner, they should build their own reputation.

 

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On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 10:41 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Aye; there was also a lot of politics and a fair few griefers wanting to keep their monopolies (oaks were rare on P/R because one group of players always cut down any undeeded oaks).

I managed to get an oak forest going on Release. Had to buy 10 sprouts for 1s and only 2 survived the planting process due to low skill, so it was expensive.

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-1, no one is forcing you to buy or sell an account.  You can mind your own business.  This is a toxic suggestion.

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12 minutes ago, madnezz said:

-1, no one is forcing you to buy or sell an account.  You can mind your own business.  This is a toxic suggestion.

 

We should also remove botting restrictions while we're at it.  No-one is forcing anyone to bot after all.

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You are dreaming Iberis CCAB owns the account and everything in it. it is by their statement that uyou are allowed to use the account and the items whgich come with it. and +1 I did sell my first account and have regretted it ever since and now I can't get it back because the guy who bough tit played it for a few months got bored and disappeared thankfully I got most of my stuff abck from the dead deed..but I still would never buy an account and yes I would grinfd another character up like I am dojng now.. I am loving every minute I play in Wurm as I always have... hell I have never built a stone building...biut I have enjoyed this game for 2 years at least now..

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The account trade allows for accounts to have real value and gives people without as much play time an opportunity to play competitively by playing on an account that could otherwise be abandoned.  You are buying people's time spent working, just like in real life.  There is no negative unless you want to count all the moaning from the likes of some in this thread.  Stop the moaning and mind your business and voila the account trade is perfect!

Edited by madnezz
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12 hours ago, madnezz said:

The account trade allows for accounts to have real value and gives people without as much play time an opportunity to play competitively by playing on an account that could otherwise be abandoned.  You are buying people's time spent working, just like in real life.  There is no negative unless you want to count all the moaning from the likes of some in this thread.  Stop the moaning and mind your business and voila the account trade is perfect!

This. I have bought and sold a lot of accounts, for me it means time spent in the game. If i upgrade an account for a better one (more skills) it means i have more time to actually play the game or have a life outside Wurm. The thing with Wurm is - it take sooo much time to do anything. In one side it is good as people feel more like they have accomplished something other times it means that you have to either grind a lot - which is not fun or you are limited about a lot of things. And here comes in the account trading. Maybe i am a person who can find an hour or 2 to play every day. Now i might be working 14h a day and make a decent salary. Now for those 2 hours maybe i want to do stuff which require high skills. So should i quit playing or should i grind for years to be able to do something. No - instead i buy an account - i am happy, the person selling is happy. Whats wrong with that? Why can´t i buy an account so i can join the time i have to play the game? I know for many its the grind which make the game so great, but for a few its not that, its the freedom to do stuff. Add the fact that people playing this game get a feeling like its an investment as if they walk away they can get some money back.

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The irony is that banning the sale of accounts, rather than help the game, might actually bang the final nail in its coffin – Code Club AB would have to give notice before implementing the ban, and in that time window you'd likely see a lot of players rushing to sell their accounts, knowing it's their last opportunity to do so. It could actually end up pushing people to leave the game prematurely.

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Believe the issue is that Wurm doesn't have much of a High tier economy, and mainly is dependent on "New Characters".

Since traditionally Fine Carp, Shipbuilding and Blacksmithing were the main earners of the early economy.

 

Which generates the hate on buying characters

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Just now, enoofu said:

Believe the issue is that Wurm doesn't have much of a High tier economy, and mainly is dependent on "New Characters".

Since traditionally Fine Carp, Shipbuilding and Blacksmithing were the main earners of the early economy.

 

Which generates the hate on buying characters

For last 4-5 years the main earners afaik has been bulk, Vynora priests and WS.  Afaik Vynora priests got screwed with the playergods(Nahjo grinds), WS is also devaluated a little but not that much and bulk is even booming, with the same prices. Fine carp came into play last year when new decorations came in and that is high end fc.

But i have to agree that some people who dislike buying/selling chars are those who feel that they cannot make the same money the used to thanks to this. And that i do not agree on. Never understood that mentality.

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2 hours ago, Gwyn said:

The irony is that banning the sale of accounts, rather than help the game, might actually bang the final nail in its coffin – Code Club AB would have to give notice before implementing the ban, and in that time window you'd likely see a lot of players rushing to sell their accounts, knowing it's their last opportunity to do so. It could actually end up pushing people to leave the game prematurely.

 

Dead wrong, it would definitely help the game in the long run.  And in the short term, yes, maybe some of the people who try to make a living by playing Wurm will rush, or quit, or try to sell their accounts illegaly.  I might be alone in this, but I dont mind those folk leaving.  And if in leaving, along with their accounts, it means that newer players get to be in the spotlight, then its a double win.

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