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Maxthx

One Time Skill Transfer from Epic to Freedom

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49 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

But aside from that, the only reason I pointed out the 2x skillgain difference was to highlight why it's not so straight forward.

 

It wont be halved to 48, you can rest easy

 

Why is a 1:1 Skill Transfer on the table for Freedom and not for Epic?

 

We keep dancing around this so I'll just be direct. Freedom isn't receiving a skill bonus for the conversion so obviously its not about equivalency. Why is a 1 to 1 Skill Transfer not on the table for Epic?

 

Because it sounds like that is what is needed, what is wanted by the players. Unless you can find me a player, who has actually ground the skills on both clusters, that is willing to back up this claim that Epic is easier.

 

Something is missing here. You are looking at the code and saying one thing, but the ACTUAL PLAYERS who have DONE THE GRIND are saying another.

 

Why is a 1:1 Skill Transfer not an option for Epic?

Edited by Maxthx
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i would also like to +1 garys post, i want my tomes that I worked for (and the ones I bought) and I want my affinities i killed for, and my karma pls

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8 hours ago, Maxthx said:

Why should I continue playing a game that does this?

Bingo. Stupid, poorly thought out decisions like this that clearly favor one group over another are IMHO the root cause of the decline in WO population that has been going on for years.

 

It's not just this decision either. So many historic examples like thieves getting priority over victims, fountains being removed from the game after years of promises they wouldn't be removed (I never owned one personally), the promise that WU would receive everything that WO received, and so many, many, many more examples.

 

Why indeed would anyone continue playing on WO and submit themselves to this kind of stuff? At one time I had 23 prems and paid for 6 deeds. Not anymore. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

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quick question. Why does it bother everyone so much what other people skills are? Just make it so epic players can come over once with 1:1 on skills and be done with it. Like make a window such as a week before the update everyone who come over will get their skills and thats it. 

 

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If we're still getting epic turned into a comical joke cluster since there was no mention of this possibly changing can we just do a 1:1 merge throwing epic onto freedom disable deeding and give us a month to move our stuff and animals we want with cages to minimize the loss and then after that month kill all the former epic servers and open a new permanent challenge since that's what the aim seems to be. Put a valrei on chaos and keep a joke valrei for challepic then it can have all its resets or whatever.  Pretty sure by now I own the second oldest deed remaining on the epic cluster and i'd happily watch it disband if the last 6 years of playing this game can be appreciated and let loyal epic players get off the sinking ship.  There's no one left after all this time to care about their deeds and the poor gameplay epic has to offer for both the last year or so and the future doesn't make holding onto deeds worth it, but if we can continue real remaining meaningful gameplay on freedom with chaos as a real serious option and a joke cluster for people to try and not care about skills or whatever that would be good

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My two cents:

I only play on the freedom cluster. I do feel bad for the remaining epic players and feel like they deserve a way off of that cluster. I'm not even really opposed to a 1:1 transfer, because at this point, how many of them are there? Not enough for it to really cause any type of issue for the Freedom cluster.

What I am VERY cautious about is that the last time PVPers in this game wanted an "out" from their "dead" server, they turned their "out" into a "transfer back and forth with everything" situation and, in turn, completely ruined the PVE economy through saturation.

Let them come, one way - one time, with their skills, titles, karma and whatever tomes they have already consumed. Let them come, one way - one time, with 50 items on their person, no tomes... no moonmetal. 

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16 minutes ago, As_I_Decay said:

Let them come, one way - one time, with their skills, titles, karma and whatever tomes they have already consumed. Let them come, one way - one time, with 50 items on their person, no tomes... no moonmetal. 

 

One way one time is all anyone wants since it's pretty permanent.  But... losing your cluster, your home, multiple deeds you've paid for, losing thousands of bulk materials and veggies etc, losing items you've spent years earning or paying for, and only allowed to take a restricted extremely limited amount of items?  Not a very encouraging way to treat some of wurm's most loyal players that stuck through servers seeing 0-10 online on average in hopes of something better

 

It doesn't even make sense, chaos has the same hota epic does for moon metal, chaos has the same valrei mobs that epic does for moon metal, freedom has rifts that you can do up to 7x per 9 day cycle which can give 3-4kg of moon metal in total pure safety per cycle per person, so why is moon metal from epic a problem?  Why cant we keep it so we can use it to compete on chaos?  I certainly have no plans to sell an ounce of my metal even if I could.

Tomes I can kind of understand the fear, but in reality there just aren't unused tomes pouring out of peoples pockets, sure some like myself will have some spares but it's extremely limited supply, and even if anyone sells, I highly doubt it will affect the prices much but at all it will make it even more available to freedom briefly so not sure what the issue is there.  Especially with the idea I tossed around of removing epic and throwing valrei onto chaos

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figured i'll add my opinion as a freedomer

 

i play on freedom, so my grind is slower than on epic (i played epic when it first came out, got bored after a week cause my skills were going up so fast)

which means i have to spend more time on my skills, and have to invest more premium time in grinding them

so i got to invest more for the same result as on epic

 

so why is my time less valuable than those on epic? why should there be a 1:1 skill transfers from epic to freedom?

 

as for items/money spent on epic, you'll soon get some naked freedomers coming to epic who will most likely be ready to buy stuff so you'll have options to sell your stuff and get money back

 

i'm all for allowing those who want to leave epic to move to freedom, but make it fair to those on freedom who grinded on a slower skillgain (and i'm guessing it's giving headaches to the devs to figure out how)

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little example for those saying it's harder on epic:

 

1 player on freedom with 100 hfc, doing basic meals in a forge (50 diff)

1 player on epic with 100 hfc, doing the exact same thing

 

both doing it for stats as they can't go higher in skill anyway

both get the same tick rate since the difficulty of the meal compared to their skill is the same

yet the player on epic gets twice more stats than the one on freedom.... 

 

just got to check niarja, the only player with 90+ ML & SD is on epic

 

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3 minutes ago, Cerber said:

little example for those saying it's harder on epic:

 

1 player on freedom with 100 hfc, doing basic meals in a forge (50 diff)

1 player on epic with 100 hfc, doing the exact same thing

 

both doing it for stats as they can't go higher in skill anyway

both get the same tick rate since the difficulty of the meal compared to their skill is the same

yet the player on epic gets twice more stats than the one on freedom.... 

 

just got to check niarja, the only player with 90+ ML & SD is on epic

 

 

There are wurm players... and then there's Bix...

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9 minutes ago, Cerber said:

little example for those saying it's harder on epic:

 

1 player on freedom with 100 hfc, doing basic meals in a forge (50 diff)

1 player on epic with 100 hfc, doing the exact same thing

 

both doing it for stats as they can't go higher in skill anyway

both get the same tick rate since the difficulty of the meal compared to their skill is the same

yet the player on epic gets twice more stats than the one on freedom.... 

 

just got to check niarja, the only player with 90+ ML & SD is on epic

 

body stats aren't affected by 2x skillgain though

?????????????

 

and that's bix you're talking about, one of the most hardcore grinders in the game

Edited by Worksock

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So bix is at 15m stp. How many days/hours are on that account? 


because itd be really interesting to see how he compares to some freedom players with 15m STP+ with total time played

 

Edit:

 

So how come people have, for example, 100 milking on Epic?

 

How can you even legally gain 100 milking?

 

love to see your skilldump gary

Edited by whykillme

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16 minutes ago, whykillme said:

So bix is at 15m stp. How many days/hours are on that account? 


because itd be really interesting to see how he compares to some freedom players with 15m STP+ with total time played

 

Edit:

 

So how come people have, for example, 100 milking on Epic?

 

How can you even legally gain 100 milking?

 

love to see your skilldump gary

Dadd has 20m on freedom, beckett has 15m. And i know a few guys with 90 milking on freedom, none with 100 but seeing how fast they got 90 its not impossible on freedom.

Edited by Wulfgarr

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19 minutes ago, Worksock said:

and that's bix you're talking about, one of the most hardcore grinders in the game

 

well i got 100 hfc and 100 beverages so i think i'm a decent grinder too

yet no 90 ML (yet) and barely 80 SD

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6 minutes ago, Wulfgarr said:

Dadd has 20m on freedom, beckett has 15m. And i know a few guys with 90 milking on freedom, none with 100 but seeing how fast they got 90 its not impossible on freedom.

90 is not even 10% of 100, skilltick wise.

Edited by whykillme

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The account Dadd has been playing since around 2008 when epic only came out in around 2014 quite a big difference when you're comparing the time frame to grind the account.

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9 minutes ago, Cerber said:

 

well i got 100 hfc and 100 beverages so i think i'm a decent grinder too

yet no 90 ML (yet) and barely 80 SD

idk why you're bringing up body stats since they're not affected by the 2x gain but ok

 

Bix has been constantly farming

everything from farming (except 0.005% which goes to our enchanting supply) he uses for huge hfc sessions

he's been doing this for ages, even after hitting 100hfc

 

Edited by Worksock

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1 minute ago, shakys said:

The account Dadd has been playing since around 2008 when epic only came out in around 2014 quite a big difference when you're comparing the time frame to grind the account.

Thought it was 2010 or 2011

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2 minutes ago, shakys said:

The account Dadd has been playing since around 2008 when epic only came out in around 2014 quite a big difference when you're comparing the time frame to grind the account.

 

nov 2011 

 

so the average person should have 40m stp or something right

Edited by platinumteef

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Going by his forum account which says 2008, i know he was playing before me from what i remember and i was 2009

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Just now, shakys said:

Going by his forum account which says 2008, i know he was playing before me from what i remember and i was 2009

 

epic came out in nov 2011 not 2014

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1 minute ago, platinumteef said:

 

epic came out in nov 2011 not 2014

my mistake then went there when it opened didn't think it was so long ago.

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2 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

One way one time is all anyone wants since it's pretty permanent.  But... losing your cluster, your home, multiple deeds you've paid for, losing thousands of bulk materials and veggies etc, losing items you've spent years earning or paying for, and only allowed to take a restricted extremely limited amount of items?  Not a very encouraging way to treat some of wurm's most loyal players that stuck through servers seeing 0-10 online on average in hopes of something better

 

Gary, I am sympathetic to your plight, but ultimately, I am more concerned about the economy in the game. I saw it (and called it) with Chaos. They ended up bringing years worth of dusty enchanted stuff that they had accrued from the years when everyone and their brother was a champ. Tanked out the PVE economy, and quite frankly, it's never bounced back since.

I hate to be cold hearted about it, but yes, you will have to give up most of your physical possessions to leave Epic. Let me remind you (and anyone else who may or may not remember) that the people of JKh and MRh had to leave behind tons of possessions when they were forced onto the newly created Independance map.  We were only allowed to bring 100 items on person, 200 on boat. I sold off what I could but I left behind thousands of lamps, hundreds of tools, champ animals, the works. I had been a paying customer for years at that point. Sure, it was unfair.... but was deemed "necessary". You'll get reimbursed in full for your deeds (and I'd also say any PMK) and remaining upkeep, and the coin moves with you. You'll get over it.

 

 

2 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

I certainly have no plans to sell an ounce of my metal even if I could.

 


You say that, and I take you as a man of your word. But you're not every other player. Humans are very opportunistic. Especially when it comes to money.

 

 

2 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

Tomes I can kind of understand the fear, but in reality there just aren't unused tomes pouring out of peoples pockets, sure some like myself will have some spares but it's extremely limited supply, and even if anyone sells, I highly doubt it will affect the prices much but at all it will make it even more available to freedom briefly so not sure what the issue is there.  Especially with the idea I tossed around of removing epic and throwing valrei onto chaos

I wager you're not the only Epic player sitting on tomes (or moonmetal). Again, referring back to humans being opportunistic. You guys can all use your tomes up on your characters before you cross them over. Plenty of moonmetal on Chaos and PVE to be obtained, right?

 

Edited by As_I_Decay

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14 minutes ago, Worksock said:

idk why you're bringing up body stats since they're not affected by the 2x gain but ok

so in the sake of testing it, i just made 2 alts: one on each cluster

 

for both i took the noob shovel, full stam, full water/food from being a brand new noob, both 1 digging action in the center of a flat 2*2 grass area, both had a 12.6s timer when digging, no sb used (noobs got none when they start), feel free to try yourself to double check my results

 

first action on epic i got:

[23:10:36] Mind increased by 0,0374 to 1,0374
[23:10:36] Mind logic increased by 0,0023 to 19,5023
[23:10:36] Miscellaneous items increased by 0,1871 to 1,1871
[23:10:36] Body stamina increased by 0,0023 to 19,5023
[23:10:36] Body increased by 0,0374 to 1,0374
[23:10:36] Body strength increased by 0,0023 to 19,5023
 

first action on freedom i got:

[23:16:59] Mind increased by 0,0187 to 1,0187
[23:16:59] Mind logic increased by 0,0012 to 19,5012
[23:16:59] Shovel increased by 0,2679 to 1,2679
[23:16:59] Body increased by 0,0187 to 1,0187
[23:16:59] Body stamina increased by 0,0012 to 19,5012
[23:16:59] Body strength increased by 0,0012 to 19,5012
[23:16:59] Digging increased by 0,6250 to 1,6250
 

if that's not exactly twice the stats on epic, i don't know what is......

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5 minutes ago, As_I_Decay said:

Gary, I am sympathetic to your plight, but ultimately, I am more concerned about the economy in the game. I saw it (and called it) with Chaos. They ended up bringing years worth of dusty enchanted stuff that they had accrued from the years when everyone and their brother was a champ. Tanked out the PVE economy, and quite frankly, it's never bounced back since.

I hate to be cold hearted about it, but yes, you will have to give up most of your physical possessions to leave Epic. Let me remind you (and anyone else who may or may not remember) that the people of JKh and MRh had to leave behind tons of possessions when they were forced onto the newly created Independance map.  We were only allowed to bring 100 items on person, 200 on boat. I sold off what I could but I left behind thousands of lamps, hundreds of tools, champ animals, the works. I had been a paying customer for years at that point. Sure, it was unfair.... but was deemed "necessary". You'll get over it.

 

You say that, and I take you as a man of your word. But you're not every other player. Humans are very opportunistic. Especially when it comes to money.
 

I wager you're not the only Epic player sitting on tomes (or moonmetal). Again, referring back to humans being opportunistic. You guys can all use your tomes up on your characters before you cross them over. Plenty of moonmetal on Chaos and PVE to be obtained, right?

 

I'm not concerned with muh markets and people lining their pockets with coins.  I'm concerned with the quality of the gameplay from the game that I'm paying to play, epic has a higher cost to pay for than freedom too, yet people want us treated unfairly

 

Just because people lost tons of items 10 years ago doesn't mean we cannot move forward and better the game with more reasonable behavior

 

It doesn't matter whos word is what or how opportunistic people are or what items they have, we're literally balancing paying players not quiting the game and leaving it permanently helping it die vs someone else lining their pockets with muh monies.  Saying we can play chaos/pve to regain the moon metal we spent years earning and some buying is not really acceptable especially when carrying it over allows people to get right into the chaos game because they don't have drake/scale to compete so their moon metal gives an edge

 

Also, who the hell has 100 milking?  I have never heard of it and the highest on niarja is 70.  I only know of one person that got 90 and that was when skillgain for multiple actions per "action" (forestry, botanizing) had broken skillgain

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