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1 hour ago, Lisabet said:

 

I believe the WU characteristic curve you mention is what I noticed when I played on WU, Jaz.

 

This is my understanding of that 'curve': Because you don't need to do the 1.01-39.99 to get skill, you're getting crafting/gathering skills with every action.  Because of this, you're doing far less actions and gaining far less in characteristics.  On WO, if you are mining and have to rig your pickaxe to mine the 1.01-39.99ql to gain mining skill, every action you do, whether it gives you mining skillgain or not, still adds to your characteristics.  If you change that to the WU skillgain system, you're getting mining every time because ql doesn't matter, so you're doing far less actions to get to 90+.  What this also means though, is you have far fewer actions giving you body, body strength, body stamina, etc.  

 

If this change goes through, causing epic to have the same type of skillgain as WU, you're effectively gimping the players on that server to not only have lower stamina than those on freedom because of past mechanics, but to ALWAYS be lower than those that come over from freedom.  It's a complete slap in the face to those players on epic that have been loyal to Code Club and Wurm all these years.

 

Characteristics in many ways are more important than many other skills when it comes to pvp.  Specifically the body characteristics.

 

Not every mining action in the current system gets you characteristic gain, either. So, if every action under the new system did, at 2x the current rate of gain, that would certainly help balance it.

 

If that's not how it works, and characteristic skillgain doesn't change (and gets an additional roadblock in the form of a curve at 31), then yes, that's a huge problem.

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Please stop saddling a dead horse. Free skilling for freedomer will hurt epic and chaos ...

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On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 8:18 AM, Retrograde said:

 

In addition to the above, we will be changing how skilling works on the Epic cluster in a few ways. First is switching the skillgain system over to the ‘new’ system that is mostly used by Wurm Unlimited servers where using your skill is all that is needed to gain in it instead of the current system that relies on timer length and successful skill rolls between 0 and 40. In addition to this, the experience rate on Epic will be set to 2x as well as the action timer rate being increased to 2x. This will make most actions take half the time and give twice the skill gain, making things a bit easier for new players to get into the game on Epic. The curve will still be in effect.

 

With PvP being the endgame focus on epic, we want to ensure that getting to that stage is not too long for players starting out. Not only that, but hopefully these changes make regearing and preparing tools, weapons and other aspects of the PvP system a lot easier to recuperate after a loss.

 

This coupled with the ability to drop in and out via epic portals straight to Freedom means it's a lot easier to get into the action faster, and hopefully encourages more activity.

 

 

We are here to play Epic and not Wurm Unlimited. The skill gain on epic is already unique. Their are people literally waiting to find out if this is in fact true and going to be implemented. This change will result in the termination of many premium subscriptions. It really feels like a bad April Fools joke. Epic skill gain is easy enough. Don't change this.

 

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On 10/13/2017 at 11:50 AM, Alectrys said:
Spoiler


Definitely NOT.

 

As was said:

 

As we advised with the launch of the new highway system, we’ll be phasing out the existing highway rules in exchange for a new ruleset with the next update too. The focus will be on returning the majority of control of the highways to players, but still allowing for accountability and control by the GM team when necessary.

 

Until the rule is changed in the official forum, the highway rule remains as it is now.

 

I'm probably missing something, but it really looks as though the new rules aren't different from the old rules?  At least, not as was intended.  Highways are still GM protected, involving GM's, but now with cat's eyes...

 

I understand the necessity, but seems a shame to go through all the trouble of developing cats eyes and not reach the ultimate goal.  Do the mechanics around the new highway system need to be tightened to allow full removal of GM responsibilities?  I thought that was the goal. 

 

13 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Given epic is an a unique position that it's completely separate from freedom, it allows us to introduce new, unique PvP  centric mechanics and systems and even items without worrying about bleed through into PvE servers and requiring balancing for both with the same mechanics.

 

a definitive split allows us to change lots of various mechanics and systems for optimisation in PvP while not influencing PvE mechanics and systems. This update will also include some epic specific pvp mechanic balances and changes too.

 

This should be the ultimate goal, and I hope it is.  Complete segregation of PvP and PvE so mechanics can finally be tuned specifically to each ruleset without either being held back. 

  1. Allow the transfer of Freedom skills to Epic so PvP minded players can head over.
  2. Remove PvP from Freedom, allowing Freedom to be PvE, and Epic to be PvP.
  3. Profit.

Also allows the much desired end of people from Chaos using the PvE islands as a refuge, in particular to avoid consequences for their actions, but also to safely replenish/resupply thereby watering down the experience of war. 

Removes the impetus for continual transfer of dragon materials from PvE islands to PvP island, which has been the source of much angst for some in the community, and admittedly schadenfreude for others.

 

It would naturally upset people in the short-term.  I'm certainly neither blind nor deaf to their plight, but in the long term (as in years), I think it would prove very beneficial to Wurm as a whole.

 

My 2i

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13 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

I'm probably missing something, but it really looks as though the new rules aren't different from the old rules?  At least, not as was intended.  Highways are still GM protected, involving GM's, but now with cat's eyes...

 

I understand the necessity, but seems a shame to go through all the trouble of developing cats eyes and not reach the ultimate goal.  Do the mechanics around the new highway system need to be tightened to allow full removal of GM responsibilities?  I thought that was the goal. 

 

 

This should be the ultimate goal, and I hope it is.  Complete segregation of PvP and PvE so mechanics can finally be tuned specifically to each ruleset without either being held back. 

  1. Allow the transfer of Freedom skills to Epic so PvP minded players can head over.
  2. Remove PvP from Freedom, allowing Freedom to be PvE, and Epic to be PvP.
  3. Profit.

Also allows the much desired end of people from Chaos using the PvE islands as a refuge, in particular to avoid consequences for their actions, but also to safely replenish/resupply thereby watering down the experience of war. 

Removes the impetus for continual transfer of dragon materials from PvE islands to PvP island, which has been the source of much angst for some in the community, and admittedly schadenfreude for others.

 

It would naturally upset people in the short-term.  I'm certainly neither blind nor deaf to their plight, but in the long term (as in years), I think it would prove very beneficial to Wurm as a whole.

 

My 2i

though i am intrigued by separating pve and pvp clusters i still think skills should be linked between the two somehow.

i agree that when seperated and there is no way to bring items to and from the other cluster, the replenish in safety feature is gone. 

but the players that want to occasionally do PVP though should have some way of going to PVP without having two seperate characters to grind. 

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6 hours ago, Reylaark said:

Also allows the much desired end of people from Chaos using the PvE islands as a refuge, in particular to avoid consequences for their actions, but also to safely replenish/resupply thereby watering down the experience of war. 

Removes the impetus for continual transfer of dragon materials from PvE islands to PvP island, which has been the source of much angst for some in the community, and admittedly schadenfreude for others.

 

 

Either of these are poor reasons.

 

Freedom has always benefited from the chaos players, they buy your materials, your tools for 2 examples, there are more I am sure.

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I may be naive but I feel an active Chaos helps a lot in keeping up the market of Freedom. The bulk and crafting market of the PVE realm will (and in fact as I feel and see the market already does) suffer from low or no activity on PVP lands. No more big dirt/buildmats deals. No more large orders for weaponry/plates just to name a few. These stuff are much more less volatile in PVE. Also, again maybe I'm naive but the coins earned on Chaos are much less converted into Paypal balaces but being put back into the deeds and equipment as the rate of replacement required and the deed costs are significantly higher than on PVE.

Epic overhaul will definitely hurt Chaos activity - seeing myself now turning towards Epic for my PVP plans instead of Chaos.

Edited by Jaz
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On 10/13/2017 at 6:08 PM, Retrograde said:

Mechanics and balance changes will be coming, and we'll be addressing some things there 

 

The biggest thing you can make sure gets done to help newer players in pvp. is fix plate armor. Specifically:-

 

1. The 0.85 damage modifier to DR when being hit by maul damage.

2. Going less than 1km/s when getting hurting\webbed.

 

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Silver converted into real money still goes to someone who presumably spends it. The concern would be people who get silver (by any means), but don't spend it.

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Plus: Let's hope the HumbleBundle promotion will drip a percentage over to WO of the +100k WU owners of the last 4 days. If 5% of them come and try WO later that may yield a few hundred new players at least.

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2 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

Silver converted into real money still goes to someone who presumably spends it. The concern would be people who get silver (by any means), but don't spend it.

The demand for silver seems to decline as well looking at late market activity.

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Just now, Jaz said:

The demand for silver seems to decline as well looking at late market activity.

Wurm is a bit weird, economically speaking. Our big movers of wealth, rent (deed upkeep) and income (foraging or the store) are invisible and require no other players. Its easy to become a self sufficient hermit. Economic activity happens across a gradient, and Wurm is extremely flat.

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I WANT TO PLAY FREEDON NOW!!!! GIVE ME TRANSFERE IVE BEN STUCK ALONE FOR I DONT REMEMBER HOW LONG! DANKO IS DEAD AND AND  I THINK IM GOING CRAZY! WHO WANTS WU SKILLGAINS, NOT ME, I WANT FREEDUM! NEED SONE ONE TO TALK WHIT SAYS MY SHRINK FREEDUNE IS MY ONLY HOPE. I HAVE ALL THE PIZZAS ORDERED AND POST!

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 7:00 AM, Retrograde said:

Given epic is an a unique position that it's completely separate from freedom, it allows us to introduce new, unique PvP  centric mechanics and systems and even items without worrying about bleed through into PvE servers and requiring balancing for both with the same mechanics.

 

a definitive split allows us to change lots of various mechanics and systems for optimisation in PvP while not influencing PvE mechanics and systems.

I think this is the best news for PvE players, that being there will be less nerfing of the PvE mechanics to benefit pvp. Of course then it will benefit pvp as well in this respect. Still, Chaos is under the Freedom Isles connection so there is always that to contend with. Anyway, yea a nice idea to have this focus and outlet to separate these two distinct playstyles.

 

=Ayes=

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4 hours ago, Ayes said:

I think this is the best news for PvE players, that being there will be less nerfing of the PvE mechanics to benefit pvp. Of course then it will benefit pvp as well in this respect. Still, Chaos is under the Freedom Isles connection so there is always that to contend with. Anyway, yea a nice idea to have this focus and outlet to separate these two distinct playstyles.

 

=Ayes=

 

IMO, Completely ignore Chaos when balancing things for Freedom, and allow anybody who actually wants to partake in the imbalanced version to do so. There is always fun to be had in that sort of situation.

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I'm so confused right now. I really don't get what your plan is?

 

Don't get me wrong - I'll be playing Epic after the update... PURELY because if I want to PvP in Wurm I have NO other choice! Epic in it's current state it shocking, Chaos is the same and Wurm Unlimited doesn't have a PvP scene at all!

 

Ok - Lets say you make some awesome changes to Epic, you add cool things, you fix broken mechanics (which is great).... New players STILL wont want to grind skills for 3-6months (even longer) when theres players out there with 50+ body stats and 90FS (plus more). The only market you are appealing to is returning Wurm players. I mean thats pretty obvious right (or am I missing something)?

 

I really don't understand why people can't figure out that Wurm PvP servers aren't perminant. They categorically cannot be perminant its not how a very time demanding, skill based game works. I'm really struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel?

 

Let me try to explain my thoughts better... When a server thats PvP, has hardly any players on it other then the grindy hard-core veterans and the very small amount of account buyers... then it becomes PvE. At that point, you don't have a PvP server anymore.

 

Why are you so scared to just end the current "PvP" servers and start again? I'm sick of hearing about time and effort... about how much people have invested. I played Chaos for years, I played Epic for a couple of years and I've got nearly 2k hours on Unlimited. I've poured thousands of hours into this game like everyone else... and I would happily watch my account get wiped just so we can get some decent PvP again!! I mean does nobody else remember the Epic release?

 

Anyone who is reading this and thinks they deserve to keep their account and hard work. Imagine yourself as someone who has never played this game before and wants to get involved. You know its not even possible right now.

Edited by Moonpoppy
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Of course you would happily watch it get wiped you let go of it a long time ago and it means nothing to you. I also know it is possible right now just not for those looking for instant gratification or those who set up in the path of a cannibal

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3 hours ago, Moonpoppy said:

Ok - Lets say you make some awesome changes to Epic, you add cool things, you fix broken mechanics (which is great).... New players STILL wont want to grind skills for 3-6months (even longer) when theres players out there with 50+ body stats and 90FS (plus more). The only market you are appealing to is returning Wurm players. I mean thats pretty obvious right (or am I missing something)?

Which is why shifting to a much more fluid skillgain system will be coming too, changing requiring hard skills to achieve certain thresholds to effective skills and so on. 

 

70 in a skill is 91 effective, and 90 in a skill is 99 effective, the curve benefits lower skills and shortens the gap.

 

Having to work on your account for 3-6 months in an mmo in order to go toe to toe with established players of years is not a bad thing, I think expecting it to be feasible to pvp with zero skills would quickly bore anyone. 

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6 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Which is why shifting to a much more fluid skillgain system will be coming too

Making 100k arrowheads and woodscraps = fluid? all changing to the WU skillgain system will do is devaluate accounts that grinded skills before, i don't think anyones enticed by spam creation.

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12 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

 

Having to work on your account for 3-6 months in an mmo in order to go toe to toe with established players of years is not a bad thing, I think expecting it to be feasible to pvp with zero skills would quickly bore anyone. 

The experience of DesolationV3 was actually the opposite. With all barriers removed for new player entry, including easy access to skilling and things like moon metals, many players described the experience as the best they ever had in Wurm PVP. Some of these players had spent years PVPing prior to this.

 

A new player could be battle ready in a couple of hours, had easy access to moon metals, drake and scale and if a battle was lost they could recover in typically less than an hour.

 

DesolationV3 had over 180 unique, non alt, PVP players with a 4 week average of 61 concurrent online players.

Edited by Nappy

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I think they also said that while it was fun there was no sense of satisfaction or accomplishment to give it longevity

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1 minute ago, SmeJack said:

I think they also said that while it was fun there was no sense of satisfaction or accomplishment to give it longevity

How much of that are you feeling right now knowing that the current plan for Epic is to cut the ground out from under the player's feet?

 

DesolationV3 wasn't designed with longevity as a primary purpose. It's purpose was to give people a very fun PVP experience where they could experience more of the game with fewer obstacles. Something to get them hooked in other words knowing that other, longer term, environments were available if they wanted less fighting and more grinding.

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Just curious, if Deso was so good, why weren't there more rounds to keep going?

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I'm attempting to leave my feelings out of this and just make objective observations on things being said, I understand what you are saying and get that it wasn't designed to be long lasting but do we want that temporary fix for epic?

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