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Fablecrafter

Workbenches - (Public Tools "Bound" to a Deed) "Formerly Chained Tools"

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Alright, so I've been workin on the idea of making a public deed, an artisan's guild, if you will, and was thinking that it'd be neat to let people be able to use good, rare, and enchanted tools to work on stuff here... But then you run the risk, of your nice tools walking off... So I had the thought, what if we could chain them to a tile, or a new plantable item or something, and then they can't be taken more than 5 tiles from that location, traded, or put into a container, thus keeping said tool on the deed for others to use it freely?

I know it's not a perfect solution, as the player could still just hold it in their inventory and prevent others from using it... but still it's a step towards the idea at hand imo :)

*Update* (10-22-17)

Wanted to post my new post here for people viewing this for the first time can see that the direction I want to take this idea would be different than the original idea I'd posted:
 

 

 


I really wanna thank those of you that have backed the idea of this, and support the idea of it, but I'm really liking the idea put forth by some about a workbench "container", it could be a more viable option imo:

 

 

 

 

On 10/10/2017 at 5:12 PM, Erlindur said:

Item: Workbench

  • Skill: Fine Carpentry
  • Attributes: Can be planted/secured, locked with large padlock, loaded with cart or better, normal decay rates apply for items within.
  • Permissions: Location (deed) rules apply for the workbench. If locked, item permissions are typical with the addition of a “Use” flag.
  • Capacity: Acts as a simple container with anyone with the right permissions able to place/remove tools in it. The maximum number of tools it can hold is workbench Quality/10.

Description: Anyone allowed, has the Use option in the right click menu if s/he stands near it. Upon Use, a toolbelt-like window opens, with the appropriate size and filled with the tools in the toolbox. The window is location sensitive. If you move away from range, it disappears (just like a container inventory). The tools in the workbench-belt can be examined, repaired(?), activated (as if they are in your inventory) and dragged (or right click→add) to the crafting window.

 

 

Wish-list:

  • Reduced decay for pelts/whetstones.
  • If I can place a bucket/small barrel of water in there, then the active tool is the water in it. I will still have to refill it manually.
  • Place appropriate graphic models on the workbench, depending on what is inside. It could be a nice exercise on placing items on furniture.

 

Edit: on abandoned workbenches, damage can deactivate tool-slots, according to effective QL, till the workbench is destroyed and the remaining tools drop to the floor.

 

On 10/8/2017 at 7:46 PM, Niki said:

A item such as a workbench, place the tools inside the container, use the workbench in your crafting window - solves a lot of these issues. It would act correctly like you would use a loom or a large anvil for creation, the tool would be damaged, enchants would decay, rarity would work - it would prevent people from taking them but maybe repair them.

 

They'd have to make a special interface for imping items though!

 

Would be super cool to have more public areas, especially the starter towns for new players. They're mostly useless because of permissions. Personally I never understood why starter towns are so limited. This would also help for impalongs and other events.


Thanks a lot both of you two for the workbench suggestions, to be honest, I'd hope to see this implemented over the Chained Tools, it'd be a bit more practical, just wasn't an idea that'd come to me when suggesting this idea.

Also I wanted to point out that my original intention for this idea was the fact of making a public deed, that players wouldn't even have to become a member of to use the tools and facilities of, while still not having to worry about said tools walking off the deed... The Workbench suggestion put forth would be much better than the Chained Tools idea I'd come up with for this, as any number of players could then "add to crafting menu" instead of having said tools being used in their inventories, where other's can't be using them, or having to worry about coding it, for players trying to log out with said tools.

Edited by Fablecrafter
Update for new suggestions.
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Had a similar idea once for tools that were chained to a spot. While you had the tool in your inventory you couldn't move or teleport. Good for a specific work area.

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A item such as a workbench, place the tools inside the container, use the workbench in your crafting window - solves a lot of these issues. It would act correctly like you would use a loom or a large anvil for creation, the tool would be damaged, enchants would decay, rarity would work - it would prevent people from taking them but maybe repair them.

 

They'd have to make a special interface for imping items though!

 

Would be super cool to have more public areas, especially the starter towns for new players. They're mostly useless because of permissions. Personally I never understood why starter towns are so limited. This would also help for impalongs and other events.

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While I get the general idea behind it, I have to say, I don't see the benefits from something like this.

 

Why would this system be beneficial over new players learning how to create their own tools and working with them as their skills go up? Skipping all the growth straight to end game tools with enchants and rarity bypasses a lot and places excessive focus on the grind.

 

If you're handing them 90ql enchanted gear what is their motivation to work on that skill beyond higher numbers?

 

Permissions are pretty flexible on starter deeds, allowing players to use public forges and beds, if there's anything that could be added without being abused we could look at adding it. 

 

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

While I get the general idea behind it, I have to say, I don't see the benefits from something like this.

 

Why would this system be beneficial over new players learning how to create their own tools and working with them as their skills go up? Skipping all the growth straight to end game tools with enchants and rarity bypasses a lot and places excessive focus on the grind.

 

If you're handing them 90ql enchanted gear what is their motivation to work on that skill beyond higher numbers?

 

Permissions are pretty flexible on starter deeds, allowing players to use public forges and beds, if there's anything that could be added without being abused we could look at adding it. 

 

Because the game had better be more than learning to make every single piece of gear by hand, most deeds that welcome new players to visit or join for long periods of time would see a huge benefit from this instead of the having to put trust in players and relying a now far too complicated permission system.

 

And I hate to break it to you, Skill with higher numbers still making the same long sword over and over again and making the ql number higher.

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Anything that allows more player interaction without having to trust them not to walk away with your stuff or log off with it when they decide Wurm is not for them is a good thing, Retro.

 

Of course, if you want me to tell a new player "Here's a full set of 50QL tools. Now get off my deed, go make your own, I don't trust you." Well, thats exactly what the current system creates so mission accomplished.

 

Or did you forget a few thousand dollars worth of fraud that happened not so long ago?

 

 

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So you want to help new players or old players out ? Most old players already have their good tools for imping, and new players probably wouldn't know or tell the difference between a 70coc tool that's almost free these days and a rare botd tool.. So what is the point of the idea then ?.. who should benefit from it besides just showing off your stash of rare tools ? You could just lend them to your friends for use, and help out new players with 70ish cast tools that wouldn't make such a big hole in your wallet if they forget to bring them back.. That way you don't need any new type of permission or working bench type item..

It just seems to me as an unnecessarily complicated thing that has to be implement with very little applicable use and overall benefit..

-1

 

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Good suggestion Fablecrafter. I think it should be kept simple like an item chain that is created, anchored to the ground and then the desired item attached to it. These are really only like "loaner items" and must be used where located so I don't see any negative impacts. A similar feature to securing Large Anvils for others to use, it seems to me.

 

=Ayes=

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2 hours ago, faty said:

You could just lend them to your friends for use, and help out new players with 70ish cast tools that wouldn't make such a big hole in your wallet if they forget to bring them back..

 

Any hole in my wallet is considered a bad hole o.o. I used to be in a village where all of the public items were 50ql tools, then public houses were available and you would store your own enchanted tools. 

 

11 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Why would this system be beneficial over new players learning how to create their own tools and working with them as their skills go up? Skipping all the growth straight to end game tools with enchants and rarity bypasses a lot and...

Because starting with a 70 coc tool would give 70% more skill... If a player wants to, they could forage and botanize until they get a few silver and buy the gear themself. That would make them "Skip all the growth." They could also attend like 4 impalongs within 2 months and get tons of 70ql stuff and maybe even some decent enchants on the way. If a player joins a village, they already skipped a lot of growth.

11 hours ago, Retrograde said:

...places excessive focus on the grind.

There's more to do than grinding!?!

 

+1, Its the villagers choice if they don't want to spend their time with 20ql stuff. Creating the tool is nothing, Its the grind that takes more time. 

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You wouldn't be giving a newbie HQ tools, it'd be a loan, the benefit of joining a deed as a citizen.

As for making your own tools.. I've never made a tool, i played for 2 years before i bought a rare, 1 year before i bought my second enchanted tool.
WoA needs skill to activate the augment so no harm there, CoC would aid in skill gain.
People that grind their skills up fast from go, throw money at the problem to do so... it'd be nice for those that can't afford to do that, to have access to these things. 

Recruitment should be encouraged, I wish to +1 this thread because i believe it would make a mayors job easier. Thereby making the average player more likely to recruit.
Newbies that want their own rares but can't afford to buy them, will still grind toolmaking, if it's in your face and it isn't yours, you're likely to want your own. The same can be said of enchants. 

At present i reckon 80-90% of people that join the game, quit before long. that's alot of effort, introducing people to the game, teaching them the ropes, for very little return for Codeclub. 
Alot of people avoid recruiting newbies because of the hassle, because of the `organisational demands`.. this change would lessen the burden by a fair amount and encourage more players to recruit, teach, guide. simply because they'd have the time to do so instead of keeping track of tools and perms.  

There's one thorn in this suggestion.. if they logged out on the chained tile and never returned.. how is one to get the tool back?
The code would need to bind the tool to a container and force the item out of their inventory when they logged out or got out of range.

That's a leap, i agree, we may never see this happen. But i think this is a good suggestion. 

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On Epic (I think?) stuff already drops out of your inventory on log out under certain conditions, so the code for making chained tools leave your inventory on log out already exists.

Edited by Darmalus
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As I read this OP I think it is perfect.  It would be amazing to set up a 'starter deed' with some sort of shared workshop, where citizens could get the benefits of amazing tools, but not have the ability to ..pardon the word...steal them.  New players to Wurm could get the bonus' from tools crafted by village elders, without requiring the village elders to reproduce amazing tools every single time someone logged off for a number of weeks with one of the amazing tools in their inventory.  In my minds eye it is like an lower version of an impalong that doesn't require all of the avies online and all of the potential lag.  I think of it more like creating a village as a 'crafting school' where avies can go to and train up their skills using the tools created by 'masters of the craft'.  

No idea how this could be coded, but I really like the thought behind it.  

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Item: Workbench

  • Skill: Fine Carpentry
  • Attributes: Can be planted/secured, locked with large padlock, loaded with cart or better, normal decay rates apply for items within.
  • Permissions: Location (deed) rules apply for the workbench. If locked, item permissions are typical with the addition of a “Use” flag.
  • Capacity: Acts as a simple container with anyone with the right permissions able to place/remove tools in it. The maximum number of tools it can hold is workbench Quality/10.

Description: Anyone allowed, has the Use option in the right click menu if s/he stands near it. Upon Use, a toolbelt-like window opens, with the appropriate size and filled with the tools in the toolbox. The window is location sensitive. If you move away from range, it disappears (just like a container inventory). The tools in the workbench-belt can be examined, repaired(?), activated (as if they are in your inventory) and dragged (or right click→add) to the crafting window.

 

 

Wish-list:

  • Reduced decay for pelts/whetstones.
  • If I can place a bucket/small barrel of water in there, then the active tool is the water in it. I will still have to refill it manually.
  • Place appropriate graphic models on the workbench, depending on what is inside. It could be a nice exercise on placing items on furniture.

 

Edit: on abandoned workbenches, damage can deactivate tool-slots, according to effective QL, till the workbench is destroyed and the remaining tools drop to the floor.

Edited by Erlindur
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-1 in the hopes of avoiding even MORE min-maxing newbies.

 

I'm starting to get tired of new players not deigning to waste their time on any action without the absolutely optimal 90 QL 95 coc tool to complement their click lest it be wasted.  It's ridiculous when they could accomplish twice as much with a 2 QL stone chisel if they didn't waste all their time running around begging for fancier tools.  Especially when they're going to leave the game a week after joining your village, I don't see why it matters if they got a 95% bonus to stone cutting instead of a 70% bonus (reaching 27 instead of 25 skill before quitting). 

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1 hour ago, Belgrim said:

-1 in the hopes of avoiding even MORE min-maxing newbies.

 

I'm starting to get tired of new players not deigning to waste their time on any action without the absolutely optimal 90 QL 95 coc tool to complement their click lest it be wasted. 

 

 

Any time you get tired of new players, its a bad time. There's not all that many around and I think wurm should be focussing on keeping them around and getting more of them, too.

 

I see the suggestion useful for shared accounts. Since its completely permitted by the game to login other peoples accounts and use them, it would be nice if villages with a shared smith/carpenter/leatherworker/whatever could have workbenches (see above!) for those shared accounts to use, without everyone having to create their own set of tools. A village could together invest in an excellent set of rare, enchanted tools, for everyone to use on said account, without worrying of someone taking them for themselves.

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i like the idea, and everyone kind of said it already about how it would help new players be welcomed more easily and avoid the running away with tools issues. +1

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I really wanna thank those of you that have backed the idea of this, and support the idea of it, but I'm really liking the idea put forth by some about a workbench "container", it could be a more viable option imo:
 

On 10/10/2017 at 5:12 PM, Erlindur said:

Item: Workbench

  • Skill: Fine Carpentry
  • Attributes: Can be planted/secured, locked with large padlock, loaded with cart or better, normal decay rates apply for items within.
  • Permissions: Location (deed) rules apply for the workbench. If locked, item permissions are typical with the addition of a “Use” flag.
  • Capacity: Acts as a simple container with anyone with the right permissions able to place/remove tools in it. The maximum number of tools it can hold is workbench Quality/10.

Description: Anyone allowed, has the Use option in the right click menu if s/he stands near it. Upon Use, a toolbelt-like window opens, with the appropriate size and filled with the tools in the toolbox. The window is location sensitive. If you move away from range, it disappears (just like a container inventory). The tools in the workbench-belt can be examined, repaired(?), activated (as if they are in your inventory) and dragged (or right click→add) to the crafting window.

 

 

Wish-list:

  • Reduced decay for pelts/whetstones.
  • If I can place a bucket/small barrel of water in there, then the active tool is the water in it. I will still have to refill it manually.
  • Place appropriate graphic models on the workbench, depending on what is inside. It could be a nice exercise on placing items on furniture.

 

Edit: on abandoned workbenches, damage can deactivate tool-slots, according to effective QL, till the workbench is destroyed and the remaining tools drop to the floor.

 

On 10/8/2017 at 7:46 PM, Niki said:

A item such as a workbench, place the tools inside the container, use the workbench in your crafting window - solves a lot of these issues. It would act correctly like you would use a loom or a large anvil for creation, the tool would be damaged, enchants would decay, rarity would work - it would prevent people from taking them but maybe repair them.

 

They'd have to make a special interface for imping items though!

 

Would be super cool to have more public areas, especially the starter towns for new players. They're mostly useless because of permissions. Personally I never understood why starter towns are so limited. This would also help for impalongs and other events.


Thanks a lot both of you two for the workbench suggestions, to be honest, I'd hope to see this implemented over the Chained Tools, it'd be a bit more practical, just wasn't an idea that'd come to me when suggesting this idea.

Also I wanted to point out that my original intention for this idea was the fact of making a public deed, that players wouldn't even have to become a member of to use the tools and facilities of, while still not having to worry about said tools walking off the deed... The Workbench suggestion put forth would be much better than the Chained Tools idea I'd come up with for this, as any number of players could then "add to crafting menu" instead of having said tools being used in their inventories, where other's can't be using them, or having to worry about coding it, for players trying to log out with said tools.

Edited by Fablecrafter
To provide feedback instead of a simple "bump" to the thread.
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+1. Id also limit the tools or even the entire bench to 1 person at a time. That way people aren’t able to use a supreme tool with high enchants at the same time. 

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+1 Still a fantastic suggestion that should be added.

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The workbench sounds good. I've been playing with some thoughts similar to the original OP long ago, and this "workbench" sounds better. I love it!

 

Still, if this is for new players mainly, how do you limit crazy usefulness a good workbench would have for older players? My entire village could share the same tools without bothering to even meet... and alts would benefit even more. I don't really endorse making alts cost free and burden free, at least I have to bother to leave/mail something to an alt or it won't have it.

 

Could simplify it this way perhaps:

- tools end up at the ql of the workbench

- no enchants (or max 50)

- the water container could be ignored.

 

This way it will be useful in starter villages, to new players, and in a public-intended deed, to new and old passersby, but it won't replace one's own enchanted tools. It still makes alts easier but probably who is grinding them would still want to give them enchanted.

 

Edited by Anarres
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Honestly, now I'm thinking this'd be better as instead of just aimed at newer players, to be more like a public sharing method of tools instead, but I'd like to point out a fact that's been mentioned, that if everyone could be using the workbench at once, it'd be pretty overpowered, especially if someone were to use a stack of alts just standing there using it.

Main idea I think that could work as a well rounded solution, would be only 1 using the workbench at a time (not sure of a viable coding way to do that, if someone has an action currently going or just simply has the workbench in their crafting interface, something along either of those lines, or if something more practical), and the other being that this'd be a way to allow players to share tools with both fellow deed members, or even the public, without risk of said tool just walking off.

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