sandokhan

Ugly Rift rewarding system needs an overhaul!

42 posts in this topic

Got my all time lowest score (90) in participating a Rift yesterday. The one before i had a score of 141.

 

And it is easy to explane why i just had a score of 90 and therefor also less rewarded: i found myself repeatly alone with the agro of 1 or 2 mobs. I saw repeatly people walking away from me targeting the next mob. And thatfor i needed to run off more frequently to heal up etc.

 

Why did this happen? Because the rift rewarding system creates TAGGERS.

 

In my opinion this system opens the opportunity for people being selfish and anti-social. This is the last thing i would expect from something what i would call as a 'team-event'.

 

So, a lot of burden comes at people that are commited to get the mobs killed. At the end what counts it's not their effort that they putted into it or their skills. 

And, silly excuses about 'ooooh it's random' are not valid and just an easy way to find an excuse.

 

I know i might step on toes but at least i can say i have the guts to bring this to the table (again)!

 

So developers...no time to hide here...lets get rid of this poor system!
 

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50 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

 

It doesn't really work as you think.

You can still play tagging game and a lot of people do. Usually you fight in a group and there's sometimes 5-20 mobs in your range every pull, so people just target, wait for a swing (you don't need to hit) and then target another mob, wait, and target another and another and another until 'pull' is finished. Rinse and repeat. You can get 60 participation this way with multiple alts without even getting in real danger, it's all about timing, binding target and remembering what mobs you've already 'scored'.

Edited by archer
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People are not that silly walking off a mob for none reason to the next one without helping finishing it and they all have a lot better participation than me... must be blind/dumb if u cant see that

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1 hour ago, archer said:

 

It doesn't really work as you think.

You can still play tagging game and a lot of people do. Usually you fight in a group and there's sometimes 5-20 mobs in your range every pull, so people just target, wait for a swing (you don't need to hit) and then target another mob, wait, and target another and another and another until 'pull' is finished. Rinse and repeat. You can get 60 participation this way with multiple alts without even getting in real danger, it's all about timing, binding target and remembering what mobs you've already 'scored'.

 

Acording to the linked thread above, if a person just tagged the mob and moved on to the next, they wouldnt recieve credit for the kill. The best strategy is to target mobs that everyone else is targetting until it dies and the target the next one that wveryone is targetting.

 

Your strategy of killing the stragglers by yourself is not a good strategy since they will die far less often. Those people you ovserve moving away from the mob that you are killing are actually probably doing what they are suppose to, which is find the target that the majority of people are targetting. Regardless of how loot works, this would be the optimal strategy for getting all of the mobs down as quick as possible with the least amount of damage to the group as a whole.

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Also...if you're frequently finding yourself out on your own, while the rest of the group is somewhere else, then it's probably not everyone else that isn't being a team player.

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7 minutes ago, McGarnicle said:

if a person just tagged the mob and moved on to the next, they wouldnt recieve credit for the kill.

no, that just means no loot drops from rift mob if you're not targeting, does not effect participation at all, selecting an enemy then selecting another (don't even need to swing or anything) will give participation points as long as you're within 4-5 tiles or so of it when it dies.

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6 minutes ago, McGarnicle said:

 

Acording to the linked thread above, if a person just tagged the mob and moved on to the next, they wouldnt recieve credit for the kill. The best strategy is to target mobs that everyone else is targetting until it dies and the target the next one that wveryone is targetting.

 

Nope. That's good tactic, but won't get you to the top of participation list if someone else is tagging.

 

You don't need to be engaged with dying creature to get points. I tested it. You only need to be engaged once with mob (so it's enough to swing, you don't need to deal any dmg) to get points from killing it when it dies.

I'm not to sure about being in combat range, but what is the combat range? IMO around 4-5 tiles.

 

Oblivionnreaver might be right as well (about not having to swing at mob at all). 

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3 hours ago, sandokhan said:

I found myself repeatly alone with the agro of 1 or 2 mobs.

In my opinion this system opens the opportunity for people being selfish and anti-social. This is the last thing i would expect from something what i would call as a 'team-event'.
 

Im with Wonka on this

41 minutes ago, Wonka said:

Also...if you're frequently finding yourself out on your own, while the rest of the group is somewhere else, then it's probably not everyone else that isn't being a team player.

 

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2 hours ago, SmeJack said:

 

It is completely broken, tagging is still a thing. I do it but I stay there and actually kill things, armor takes a serious beating though, others though are one hit wonders and offer zip in taking down the rift mobs. If it was not for the rune mats at the end, I would never attend a rift ever again.

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I've yelled about this very issue since early on. It's broken. IMO rifts as a whole are broken. They happen way too often, and many people don't care about making an effort to attend anymore. 

 

Yes, you can tag, swing, move on. I've tested it more than once. I'm constantly amazed at how some of the really high scorers never have to retreat to heal, and was talking about it to another player. They said it's because you don't have to ever really put yourself in danger. I tested it. Did an entire rift without ever taking any real health hits, ended up in the top three, then felt like a fraud. I guess if you're "that type of person" (read lowlife who doesn't care about any except themselves) you can play that way. I'd rather push to see how many hits I can get. 

 

There has got to be a way to tie score to damage dealt instead of just tagging.

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13 minutes ago, ChampagneDragon said:

There has got to be a way to tie score to damage dealt instead of just tagging.

 

 

Trouble is, anyone in support roles is then punished. Rifts are a mess, the poorly design mechanisms relying on score, RNG and even more RNG make them a real pita.

 

Yes, something needs to be done for them, yes, they are far from community or team oriented events...

 

Right now they are just a quick cash and ressources grab (when it's not to resell them).

 

I have said it countless times, but the most fun i had was during the rift beta test on the test server... mechanisms and loot management were totally different than the current broken system.

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1 hour ago, Odynn said:

 

Trouble is, anyone in support roles is then punished. Rifts are a mess, the poorly design mechanisms relying on score, RNG and even more RNG make them a real pita.

 

Yes, something needs to be done for them, yes, they are far from community or team oriented events...

 

Right now they are just a quick cash and ressources grab (when it's not to resell them).

 

I have said it countless times, but the most fun i had was during the rift beta test on the test server... mechanisms and loot management were totally different than the current broken system.


resell? rift stuff dont sell well, all the stuff is for high end players, runes are hard of make and attach, most of them probably have all the weapon, armour and tools already runed. Moonmetals in the other way are needed for imp at least

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I'm glad to hear you guys talking about its broken. When i had a score of 141 we where with a significant smaller group and we where all more focused on the same target.

But when people move off the same target as i ...while its just lets say half of its health...how would i be not a teamplayer?
If i leave someone alone with 1 or 2 mobs...that means he will receive more damage because he need much more time to finish mobs.

Imo thats not teamplay. And Wurm rewards this way better... 
 

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Agreed. Give participation points for damage (1 point for every 20 damage dealt or something) to eliminate tagging as a strategy. Give extra points to players who are the target of ogres when they die so players have a reason to tank. Give extra points to players who are healing other players tanking rift mobs.

 

These changes would incentivize efficient and helpful play instead of tagging.

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People sometime wander off mid-kill because they've just realized that the mob is too crowded to even target it properly.

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59 minutes ago, thorgot said:

Agreed. Give participation points for damage (1 point for every 20 damage dealt or something) to eliminate tagging as a strategy. Give extra points to players who are the target of ogres when they die so players have a reason to tank. Give extra points to players who are healing other players tanking rift mobs.

 

These changes would incentivize efficient and helpful play instead of tagging.

 

I like it, because I have an addy huge axe and 90 skill in it.

There were people at last nights rift who were participating in every kill, not tagging, who almost got nothing but glances (due to their lower ql weapons and using one handers) I'm not sure that'd be a very good way to go on about it, either.

 

Maybe just only give points based on the critter dying when you have it targeted, instead of being within (x) tiles?

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Wow I never knew about this tagging business, I always try to choose the one that will die fastest (lot's of people hitting it) and try my best to actually kill it faster.. Works well for me tbh, but I would get rid of any tagging mechanics unless the person is tanking a mob and/or targeting it, when it dies.

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2 hours ago, thorgot said:

Give extra points to players who are the target of ogres when they die so players have a reason to tank.

 

That would just enable someone to taunt the mobs before they die. In effect stealing the points from the original player that took 90% of the mobs hits.

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Plz remove rifts and give us something fun that actually fits with the game

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1 hour ago, Toolhead said:

Plz remove rifts and give us something fun that actually fits with the game

Only if you remove player gods and runes?  Oh and please also remove the easy channel grind for alts.  (end sarcasm)

 

But on a more serious note; the tactic of "tag don't bag" does work with rifts.

 

However, if you changed it to kills or damage, weaker players would not bother turning up.

 

What I do feel is that each mob should have a point value (beasts 1, jackles, summoners and mages 3, ogres and ogre mages 5 and rift warmaster 10).  The existing "1 point if you hit or fight" should persist, but players who deal certain damage percentages should get more.  So if you do 50% of the damage to an orge, you get 50% of their point value.

 

While you're at it, remove the LoF cap, since (at the moment) preists spend 30 copper per LoF cast.

 

KTNXBAI

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30 copper!? Where do you get that number? Are you billing for the wear and tear on your shoes for running? 15 chopped veggies is more than 70 favor and at 10 iron per veggie thats 1.5 copper. Make it x3 for chopped veggies maybe? Thats 4.5 copper.

 

If your paying 30 copper for 15 chopped veggies you're getting ripped off, my man. You should change your supplier. 

Edited by Angelklaine

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7 hours ago, thorgot said:

Agreed. Give participation points for damage (1 point for every 20 damage dealt or something) to eliminate tagging as a strategy. Give extra points to players who are the target of ogres when they die so players have a reason to tank. Give extra points to players who are healing other players tanking rift mobs.

 

These changes would incentivize efficient and helpful play instead of tagging.


that is really bad, so you will balance toons with 60+ strenght with other will less than 30?

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1 hour ago, tamat said:


that is really bad, so you will balance toons with 60+ strenght with other will less than 30?

Yes, people who contribute more should definitely get more rewards.

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I suppose the flip side of not rewarding higher strength toons for their work, is to let all those 30 strength toons fight ogres on their own...

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