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elentari

Extend sleep bonus cap for loyal players

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49 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Playing the game for a certain amount of time seems like a poop reason to award this benefit :/ 

 

It's not for playing the game a certain amount of time. It's about giving Codeclub money for a certain amount of time. Think of it as one of the perks of a loyalty program. You know like when you book 10 nights at a hotel and they give you a free night if you're a member?

 

50 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

they are gone for a month, they are gonna have 1 extra hour, a significant amount of double xp time

 

"Gone for a month" and all they get is an extra hour of sleep bonus? That's basically nothing compared to how much time they "lost".

 

The people benefiting from the extra SB aren't front runners, anyway. If anything, this would narrow the gap between the "true" veterans (the ones with the crazy high skills) and the weekend warriors.

 

This reduces skill inequality not widens it.

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10 hours ago, Hailene said:

It's not for playing the game a certain amount of time. It's about giving Codeclub money for a certain amount of time. Think of it as one of the perks of a loyalty program. You know like when you book 10 nights at a hotel and they give you a free night if you're a member?

Lol im 19, I don't book hotels. And your 10 nights at a hotel for 1 free night is not much like the suggestion. That would be the equivalent to having 6 months of premium give a sleeping powder that gives 30 mins. You use up the sleeping powder, just like you use up that 1 free night. This suggestion is more like booking 10 nights at a hotel and receive a discount EVERY time you come back. May not be exactly like the suggestion, but much more similar than the 1 free night seeing that the discount is never consumed like the additional sleep bonus. 

10 hours ago, Hailene said:

"Gone for a month" and all they get is an extra hour of sleep bonus? That's basically nothing compared to how much time they "lost".

 

The people benefiting from the extra SB aren't front runners, anyway. If anything, this would narrow the gap between the "true" veterans (the ones with the crazy high skills) and the weekend warriors.

 

This reduces skill inequality not widens it.

Last time i saw you, you were grinding blacksmithing on tons of needles with 90+ blacksmithing and tackling college work. I would assume you would be considered a "true" veteran with such high skill. It wouldnt be uncommon to have to log off of wurm and pay attention to studies in order to pass your finals. With 3 years of premium, you can log of for 8 days and come back with 8 hours of sleep bonus (1 hr per day? am i wrong). A new player that just got premium and wants to grind his skills could be gone for 8 days, and would only get 5 hours of sleep bonus. Tell me 3 hours of sleep bonus is not a significant amount of time for grinding. Premium time base rewards are just better off as cosmetics, not boosts.

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5 hours ago, Yiraia said:

This suggestion is more like booking 10 nights at a hotel and receive a discount EVERY time you come back


There are hotel loyalty programs that do exactly that. Every time you rent a room you earn "points" and when you reach certain plateaus (say stay there 10 nights) you'll move up to "silver" membership. Silver members get a free breakfast every time they stay. Stay 25 nights and you're in "gold" and you receive a complimentary free room upgrade when available.

 

It's one way people get people to come back to them.

 

5 hours ago, Yiraia said:

Tell me 3 hours of sleep bonus is not a significant amount of time for grinding.

 

It really isn't. Not when one skill takes probably 50 hours (much more if you don't have access to CoC items, know how skillling works...etc.)

 

And weighed against the fact I didn't grind for 8 days, 3 hours of SB is basically a booby-prize.

 

And honestly someone who doesn't skill for 8 days either has a crazy schedule (which means he or she isn't grinding much, anyway) or whose play style is grind-avoiding that a few extra hours of SB every once in a great while isn't going to make a huge difference anyway.

 

It's just a nice nod to reward long-time players for their dedication.

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7 hours ago, Yiraia said:

Tell me 3 hours of sleep bonus is not a significant amount of time for grinding.

its not. this is wurm. telling someone grinding in wurm about how much can be done in 3 hours they will laugh at you and call you a special snowflake.

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1 hour ago, Arium said:

its not. this is wurm. telling someone grinding in wurm about how much can be done in 3 hours they will laugh at you and call you a special snowflake.

I have a friend thats hitting near 100 in a skill. And (s)he informs me how much time it takes to get 1 tick (approximately 1 hour). Assuming thats without sleep bonus, Im sure (s)he would much rather spend 3 hours with sleep bonus for those 3 ticks to have an additional 100% more gain. This player also has frequent breaks and logs on regularly to perform simple craft missions to get more sleep bonus.

4 hours ago, Hailene said:

It's one way people get people to come back to them.

Yes... Good thing this suggestion was made. Too many people are leaving because grinding isnt getting easier. 

4 hours ago, Hailene said:

It's just a nice nod to reward long-time players for their dedication.

Achievements are rewarding long-time players. Being premium for a long time isn't much an achievement, "congrats you sent money." Having it as a reward from meditation is more reasonable, and still a suggestion that I would -1.

 

Point is, extended cap on sleep bonus is WAY too functional to be awarded by premium time. Perma buffs for loyal players like this could even possibly make newer players view the game in a more negative way. Favouring long term players shouldn't be taken so far.

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32 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

I have a friend thats hitting near 100 in a skill. And (s)he informs me how much time it takes to get 1 tick (approximately 1 hour). Assuming thats without sleep bonus, Im sure (s)he would much rather spend 3 hours with sleep bonus for those 3 ticks to have an additional 100% more gain. This player also has frequent breaks and logs on regularly to perform simple craft missions to get more sleep bonus.

 

I'm not quite sure how this has any relevance to the topic?

 

Your friend has one high skill If he or she is relying on regularly generated sleep bonus (supplemented with some mission sleep bonus) then they should expect to hit 100 in a few years. If not later. How is this such a horrible thing?

 

33 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Yes... Good thing this suggestion was made. Too many people are leaving because grinding isnt getting easier. 

 

Took my quote out of context. But yes it can help player retention. Also might get people to premium up again if they're nearing another 6 month benchmark.

 

35 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Achievements are rewarding long-time players. Being premium for a long time isn't much an achievement, "congrats you sent money."

 

It might be because you're too young to really participate in reward programs (or simply choose to eschew them), but they're a time-tested method to have customers come back.

 

Quite frankly this conversation can't continue forward. In your head an extra 30 minutes or hour of maximum sleep bonus is some enormous advantage. But you're failing to acknowledge that someone that lets their sleep bonus his the cap is already behind the curve. No serious grinder (barring rare and/or serious situations) is ever going to hit sleep cap more than once or twice a year. Exceptions occur (people working 2 weeks on 1 week off on oil rigs, for example) but they are the exception and not the rule.

 

Extending the sleep bonus cap for long-time premium players is a tiny bonus for grinders and just a nice token of appreciation for long-term casual players.

 

It doesn't increase the rate of sleep bonus gained. Someoe that isn't grinding for a week is probably someone not worth worrying about skill-wise.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hailene said:

I'm not quite sure how this has any relevance to the topic?

It is the significance of sleep bonus, and how 3 hours would provide 3 more days of break before having to utilize the sleep bonus. Sorry you werent able to realize that.

5 minutes ago, Hailene said:

Took my quote out of context. But yes it can help player retention. Also might get people to premium up again if they're nearing another 6 month benchmark... It might be because you're too young to really participate in reward programs 

I'm sure this would make a person stick to a certain hotel, but I doubt this 30 mins of sleep bonus would make a significant difference at all in player retention in wurm. Hotels have to worry about other hotels with competition. One would think "Man I should go to this hotel for a better view, but my membership in this other hotel would lead me here for the amazing price." Im familiar with the membership bonuses with air plane flights, but I live with family when i go on vacation. 

35 minutes ago, Hailene said:

Quite frankly this conversation can't continue forward. In your head an extra 30 minutes or hour of maximum sleep bonus is some enormous advantage. But you're failing to acknowledge that someone that lets their sleep bonus his the cap is already behind the curve. No serious grinder (barring rare and/or serious situations) is ever going to hit sleep cap more than once or twice a year. Exceptions occur (people working 2 weeks on 1 week off on oil rigs, for example) but they are the exception and not the rule.

Quite frankly this conversation can't continue forward. In your head an extra 30 minutes or hour of maximum sleep bonus is an significant advantage worth obtaining though premium time. This suggestion is very heavily in favor of loyal players, when keeping loyal players is no where near an issue in wurm. This suggestion offers nothing more to do, and yells "Hey i have been playing the game for a while, I like it but would also like some more sleep bonus for me and my friends who played for a long time. Not the new guys out there though, thanks." 

 

I repeat:

1 hour ago, Yiraia said:

Point is, extended cap on sleep bonus is WAY too functional to be awarded by premium time. Perma buffs for loyal players like this could even possibly make newer players view the game in a more negative way. Favouring long term players shouldn't be taken so far.

I've jumped around from game to game and immediately consider leaving when I see any really functional perks given to loyal players, because those games are often solely focused on making loyal players happier. Dunno about what you guys look for in MMOs.

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This isn't a conversation worth having. If you think increasing the sleep bonus cap is somehow game breaking for casual grinding, loyal players then that's your opinion and that's all about I can say about it.

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more sb caps is good for everyone, the problem is filling it, you not play or get sleep powders.
Both, prem and non prem players refill the sb in the same way/rate. Unless we get free fill (whatever is the reason), sb dont affect that much

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I dont think it would help player retention, people dont quit because they run out of sleep bonus, they quit for completely diferent reasons, usually not even tied to game mechanics.

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5 hours ago, Rathgar said:

I dont think it would help player retention, people dont quit because they run out of sleep bonus, they quit for completely diferent reasons, usually not even tied to game mechanics.

 

No one saying this is a silver bullet. It's just a nice little token of appreciation. It gives a bit more flexibility for the schedule of long term players for their grinding sessions.

 

And I think it's one fewer thing to worry (as much) about. It can ease the urgency of playing for busy long-term players a bit.

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Think a lot of people missed my initial argument. This is not a game breaking change. It will not create or lower gaps between people. People who play frequently will play because they want to. People who do not, simply won't, for their own reasons ( time, jobs, kids, etc. ) . However both can have one thing in common and that is paying for premium time as loyal players. 

 

Yeah I admit I phrased one thing wrong, when I said "premium based rewards" I was not reffering to stuff like being able to increase your skills past 20 and so on. I was simply referring that stuff like xmas gifts and spyglasses are cute but not useful to very loyal players except maybe only in pvp circumstances, which these days, are few to be realistic.  

 

Extending sleep bonus ceiling will not create gaps, it will simply help those who want to play, grind ( which the game is 50% about anyway) and get skills faster. Will it create a bigger gap between players who play often and those who don't? No. Sleep bonus won't affect the gap, that's created by different playstyles and time investment. 

 

I admit, I haven't played many mmos, but I guess the community can give me some examples how games reward players for their loyalty with Non-game-breaking gifts and items. 

 

Will it help player retention? Maybe, maybe not. Will it harm it ? There's no evidence to prove that.

 

The difference between having a 5hr SB cap and 8-9 hour SB cap is not that big really especially if you know about the CCFP nutrition mechanics.  Like the game has been around for 10 years? At best, assuming you'd have paid for premium time since day 1 , your SB cap would be at 15 hours max.  But here I also admit I do not know if wurm initially started out as free to play or subscription based, so you can enlighten me on that. 

 

My point is that in the end, it won't break the game, it won't create gaps, it just helps people who actually want to play Often . Aren't those people the game needs anyway? People who play? :)

 

 

P.S. About Rathgar's argument : It's not about giving More benefits to premium. It's about rewarding loyalty. As I stated, I , as a veteran player don't want 50 things that can make me more powerful than others, I hate that type of disparity just as much as I hate pay to win games. When I made the suggestion about the SB cap, I thought about how and if it would imbalance the game and I cannot see a way this actually harms players. 

 

Edited by elentari

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Would like an increase on my sleep cap whether its a loyalty bonus or not. 5 hrs is too little.

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While I'm not against something to reward loyal players, there's 2 core issues that exist either way here

 

1. The current prem reward system has always been pretty buggy and doesn't always record things right so people have more/less/right amount of prem stored in their /playtime, which was evident by people getting the wrong knapsacks, or people not getting spyglasses when they should or vice versa.  This could create issues when someone isn't getting the bonus they think they should be getting

 

2. Ok I'm the most loyal customer, I made it to 10 hours sb max (assuming we even go that high but lets just say that), now I go on a tree cutting, laughing at pillars, animal slaying spree spamming missions for a couple hours next thing you know I went from 0-10 hours sb.  Is this a problem?  It might be as that would probably really push a gap as it's sb on demand.  So it's probably best to cap sb from missions to 5 hours (not the current 4).  or maybe reduce the gain per mission at least.  Not to poop on bonuses, just that spamming missions to a higher level of sb than others just helps it be an elitist gap and not so much of a bonus

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Not against that. Personally I always wondered why missions had the arbitrary bonus of 30 mins SB per mission, capped at 4 hours. I didn't understand why 4 hours, why not 3 or 5 . For long grinds tbh, I'd change it so missions give you Halfpowders instead of SB if possible, that are coded to not leave inventory unless you want to destroy them (similar to the "discard" options on rocks and trees).  Half powders could be consumed at any time for a 30 mins SB gain, capped at the old 4 hours mark, meaning if you have 4 hrs 01 mins of sleep bonus, half powders wouldn't have any effect. But that's beside the topic in a way, and I'm not sure if it would create more issues. Just a random thought. 

 

Addendum: Halfpowders would be non transferable between players meaning they couldn't be sold by people spamming easy missions. Just hard coded to each player. 

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@Rolfadd in the option for "premium+" to allow for extra SB loyalty stacking.  People want it, you get money for it, everyone wins.  Make it an add on option!  +50%? cap for premium + :P or w/e works for you, just my suggestion. 

 

make it wurm store only, (added this to avoid the in game currency option for payment of it).

Edited by Brew
added wurm store only request to above.

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4 hours ago, Brew said:

@Rolfadd in the option for "premium+" to allow for extra SB loyalty stacking.  People want it, you get money for it, everyone wins.  Make it an add on option!  +50%? cap for premium + :P or w/e works for you, just my suggestion. 

 

make it wurm store only, (added this to avoid the in game currency option for payment of it).

+1

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