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Darmalus

Player Gods to Patron Gods

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Gods

 

 

Only the four original gods, Fo, Libila, Magranon and Vynora, would exist. There could only be priests and followers of these four.

 

 

By restricting it to a static four gods, spell lists and abilities can be balanced between them, with each god having unique benefits and spells not found on any other god or player god.

 

 

 

 

Player Gods

 

 

Player gods would not be removed, but changed into Patron Gods. Patron gods have a very restricted list of spells, but can be worshiped by any follower or priest of any religion. A patron god has no priests. A patron god could be called a Saint, Demon, Spirit, Angle, or other appropriate name.

 

 

 

 

Patron Gods

A patron god blesses a player that makes a sacrifice to them. The duration of this blessing is a function of the player’s prayer skill and the Get Price of the sacrifice, a large Get Price can be used to offset a low prayer skill. The blessing can last between 10 minutes to up to 24 hours.

 

 

A patron god has a single passive ability that priests and follower with Faith of 20 or more gains the benefit of. The patron god also has a very short list of 3 spells that priests gain access to. If the priest did not have access to these spells before, then their spell list is simply expanded temporarily. If the priest already had that spell, then the spell can benefit from a variety of possible benefits such as reduced favor cost, increased effective channeling skill or removed restriction (ie a Vynora priest being able to cast disintegrate on a pve server).

 

 

Example: Patron Spirit of Caves

Passive ability: Increased effective prospecting skill, allowing for more accurate information.

Spells: Light Token, Strongwall, Disintegrate

 

 

Example: Patron Saint of the Harvest

Passive ability: Increased harvest quality, like your hands had the rune of quality on them.

Spells: Humid Drizzle, Morning Fog, Wild Growth

 

 

You can only be blessed by a single patron god at a time, with a new patron blessing replacing the old one if it had not yet expired.

 

 

By making each Patron God tightly themed with a short list of abilities, many can be designed before exhausting or repeating abilities, removing the issues of randomized spell lists. The number of possible themes goes on almost endlessly, Patron gods of caves, houses, blood, darkness, love, hate, roads, mountains, smiths, trolls, etc.

 

The Transition

The most fair way to handle this would be to allow all player god priests a choice of following one of the four gods without loss of faith. Any player god altars could either be left in as legacy items or go blank until blessed again.

Edited by Darmalus
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Well outlined and simple enough! I like it a lot!

 

I think it would stir things up initially in those who are already the existing priests of the player Gods currently, but after the initial stir up, it could be a more streamline and intuitive way of doing it. 

 

+1

Edited by Lei

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I like this. I think the current player god system is ridiculously imbalanced. I don't see any kind of change coming anytime soon, though, as any Nahjo priest (and there are a lot of them) will raise hell if you make them do anything else.

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I'm only concerned with how existing player god priests would be handled, as I have 2(Nahjo + Paaweelr). Will they default to an old god or can they choose a new good keeping all their faith? Probably stating the painfully obvious, but the transition will have to be (widely) lossless or the butthurt will be quite detrimental and possibly make people quit.

 

Still, the concept is intruiging as a new game mechanism and deals with the whackyness of random spell lists that have griefed many people, so this should at least be discussed to some extent. One caveat is that Meditation is being reworked currently (So that'll take some time before the devs can entertain this idea properly) and there are some changes to Epic coming also, which may affect player gods or the ascension process. Don't quote me, I have nothing concrete on this right now, but depending on what the changes bring this idea may have to be reviewed aswell.

But as the state of affairs are now, +1 from my side.

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-1 sorry but no.  i do think player gods do need to be reworked.

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-1 To be honest, I dont even think player gods need reworking anymore. Right now a huge percent of the priest population is either Paaw, Nahjo, or Vyn. If player gods are removed, then its just going to be a whole lot of Vyns and a few Fo priest for life transfer and even fewer priests for Magranon (some demise spells). Player gods have increased the options of spell lists and I wouldnt wanna go back. I would +1 anything related to having just "Priests" and then choosing spells from a tree.

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I REALLY like this idea a lot (just a few ideas though), and I think it's a very fair way to fix the current problems!

(It reminds me a lot of the God system in Skyrim, and I think that's a realy good thing.)

 

So let's say, I am a Magranon follower (doesn't really matter what God) with 20 Faith. I go up to an "altar" (we can change this later) of Gary, and receive his blessings. These blessings, imo, would stay permanent, until I switched (to remove annoying repetitiveness, etc). I would be granted.... let's say, Patron of the Cave, and receive the passive abilities, but not be able to cast the spell because I'm not at 30 faith of my main follower. I would keep this basically forever until I switched patrons (which, should have a 24 hour to 1-week cooldown).

 

If I'm 30 Faith of my God, and I have a Patron God, I will get their passive abilities, plus be able to cast his/her spell. The spell should have a cooldown of about 30m-1h, or longer.

 

It would use the same favour, channeling, etc system that the base Religion system does, but be sort of an off-branch, sort of.....

 

Here are some Patrons I came up with. I think they should be assigned randomly to each Player God, and not double, triple, quadruple, etc, until all of them have been filled once, twice, thrice, etc.....

 

Patron of the Animal

- 10% easier to tame animals

- 10% longer to keep animals tamed

- Can cast Humid Drizzle once per hour (30 faith (normally 21), 30 favour)

 

Patron of the Cave

- 10% easier to mine higher QL material

- 5% chance to mine an extra rock/ore

- Can cast Disintegrate once per hour (30 faith (normally 70), 30 favour(normally 80))

 --  (Strongwall would be too OP)

 

Patron of the Crafter

- 10% higher improvement ticks

- 5% higher chance to create a rare object on a roll

- Can cast Mend once per hour (30 faith (normally 29), 30 favour(normally 29))

 --  (Wisdom of Vynora would be too OP)

 

Patron of the Farmer

- 10% higher QL farm/herb/garden produce

- 5% chance to yield extra crop/herb/garden per tile/pot when harvesting/picking

- Can cast Wild Growth once per hour (30 faith (normally 41), 30 favour (normally 40))

 

Patron of the Forest

- 10% higher QL fruit/flower/sprout/forage & botanized items/etc

- 5% chance to gather extra fruit/flower/sprout/forage & botanized items/etc

- Can cast Wild Growth once per hour (30 faith (normally 41), 30 favour (normally 40))

 

Patron of the Ocean

- 10% higher QL fish (and as such, higher weight)

- 10% higher chance to catch the "rarer" fishes when fishing on rare tile

- Can cast Tentacles(??) once per hour (with 30 faith (normally 33), 30 favour)

 

Patron of the Wild

- 10% higher QL butchered produce

- Receives Fo's creature non-aggressiveness (at 30 faith)

- Can cast Reveal Creatures once per hour (30 faith, 30 favour)

 

 

And of course, free switching to any of the main Gods.

 

 

And sorry for a bit of off-topicness, but with all of the above said, there are some things that need to be addressed with the main Gods.

 

For one, all 120 favour spells should be reduced to 100 favour to limit the alt spam (at least the crafting ones).

Magranon needs to be buffed/changed into a priest that Smeagain is (a real combat priest).

Libila, Fo, and Vynora also need a bit of spell tweaking, but they are about right.

 

Of course, a detailed suggestion for them can be done at a later point, but sort of in line with this one. :)

Edited by Xallo
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What incentive would there be for a player to become a god on epic to have such a short spell list?

 

I don't know about epic player gods, but it seems like part of quest to becoming a god is to be powerful?

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49 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

What incentive would there be for a player to become a god on epic to have such a short spell list?

 

I don't know about epic player gods, but it seems like part of quest to becoming a god is to be powerful?

 

Mostly the fact you get a random tome or dragon egg I suppose?

 

Give them permanent passive and active ability (as long as they have 30 faith (?)) and perhaps even allow them to still follow another patron God?

 

Also, a cool extra permanent title [Ascended]....

Arch Mage Gary the 15th Eidolon [Ascended][Champion of Magranon]....

 

Could be more buffs/reasons to Ascend, but I think it's a good start.

 

 

Edit: I suppose this suggestion could still be used even if Epic/Player Gods are scrapped altogether..... just another extra title at the end [Patron of the <...>] if you chose to receive the blessings of a Patron God at 20-30 Faith. ;)

Edited by Xallo

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+1 and here is why:

 

Balance in a game like wurm is important; the old gods were already a bit iffy on balance, though not overly broken.  Player gods are in no way balanced since they are the product of RNG rolls.  While they are convenient and nice to have, they're convenient and nice to have in the same way as a "set health to 100%" button, they are convenient in a way beneficial to individuals but not the collective playerbase.

 

The proposed suggestions gives player gods a purpose (nice passive for non-priests, access to extra spells/buffed spells for existing priests) and integrates them into the game lore a little more solidly (demigods vs gods).  It also allows those who did back player gods to retain their skill progress.

 

@Xallo's suggestion for non-priests casting spells is a nice one, however perhaps this should go both ways; give each patron a linked skill that unlocks when a priest follows them.

 

So to use some of the examples above:

 

Patron of the Cave: Mining

Patron of the Forest: Woodcutting

Patron of the Farmer: Digging

Patron of the Ocean: Ship Building

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I like this idea. I like Xallos ideas except for disintegrate. He pointed out Strongwall would be too OP but as disintegrate is used to break into enemy mines on pvp servers Id not want this to be introduced.

 

Other than that some change is definately needed as well as adequate compensation or a free transfer to one of the original 4 gods at the same faith would be required.

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17 hours ago, Darmalus said:

By restricting it to a static four gods, spell lists and abilities can be balanced between them, with each god having unique benefits and spells not found on any other god or player god.

 

When Vynora, Fo, and Magranon were the only priest available in PvE the majority of people said the spell list doesnt need working on. I have seen SEVERAL forum posts asking to buff Fo and Magranon so they could cast money making spells like Vynora, but then people complained "If you value a priest by the money it makes, then its your issue." Vynora remained the Cash-Money priest, Fo remained the Nature priest, and Magranon was the rest and combat. Now everybody is saying that the new priest combinations have priests that have even better combinations than Vynora, and would like to remove them so Vynora is on top? To get all the spells you still need more than 1 priest. People who chose Paaw and have BoTD may need coc for a proper skiller tool, people who choose Nathan still need woa. The only thing there is not to like about this is that the names are pretty stupid from time to time.

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1 hour ago, Yiraia said:

 

When Vynora, Fo, and Magranon were the only priest available in PvE the majority of people said the spell list doesnt need working on. I have seen SEVERAL forum posts asking to buff Fo and Magranon so they could cast money making spells like Vynora, but then people complained "If you value a priest by the money it makes, then its your issue." Vynora remained the Cash-Money priest, Fo remained the Nature priest, and Magranon was the rest and combat. Now everybody is saying that the new priest combinations have priests that have even better combinations than Vynora, and would like to remove them so Vynora is on top? To get all the spells you still need more than 1 priest. People who chose Paaw and have BoTD may need coc for a proper skiller tool, people who choose Nathan still need woa. The only thing there is not to like about this is that the names are pretty stupid from time to time.

 

The key notion is that the four old gods each had their own domain, yes some of those domains could be expanded a little to balance out PvE, but every priest had something solidly unique; be it CoC, WoA and MS for Vyn, Genesis, Courier and LT for Fo or Strongwall, Disintegrate or AoSP for Mag.

 

At the moment all we have is Nahjo at the top with Paaw for anyone who wants BoTD.  Vyn priests are still above every other priest as they (currently) have the source of CoC;, the others are just much further down the roster, with some priests like mag priests being rarer than dragons.  If removing player gods were simply to return us to the status quo before player gods, it would still be a massive improvement for every god.

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I like the idea, it is quite in line with the direction we are going with food affinites.  Some polishing may be needed but the general idea and Xallo's refining sounds real cool.

I will bite the bullet to convert my Nahjos.

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22 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

or Strongwall, Disintegrate or AoSP for Mag.

Vynora has AoSP as well, making another reason to just choose Vynora. If player gods are removed, There will be still be a top priest, just not Nahjo or Paaw. Its a whole lot of effort for such a little fix.

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One of the reasons I'd prefer only the original four as gods is that it greatly reduces the job of balancing those gods (and yes, I have a Nahjo I'd be converting). Pool the enchants then spread them out evenly so no single god dominates the desirable enchants. It's just easier when you know no new gods will suddenly show up with RNG spell lists to undo that work.

Edited by Darmalus

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You're all so wrong. Balance-shmalance. See, thing is if most people like something randomly generated like Nahjo or Paa and it doesn't harm anyone, then this randomly generated thing should be taken as prime example for future (re)design, solely because it's obviously better for the players based on actual usage evidence.

Edited by zigozag
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So what when people ascend they become a patron of <random>? 

Anyway +1

Edited by Kurson

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1 minute ago, Kurson said:

So what when people ascend they become a patron of <random>? 

Anyway +1

Well, hopefully there would be a bunch of pre-made themes they could choose from or be assigned to randomly. Then you could choose what kind of patron you are. "Kurson, Demon of Fire" or "Kurson, Spirit of Lions" which would be cosmetic but still a fun thing to have.

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Maybe the Patron Gods that you are able to follow should be sort of limited to the Main God that you actually are a follower of, to sort of have a limitation to it (Gods can have multiple of them, and they can overlap)?

 

For example:

Magranon would have Patron of the Cave, or Patron of the Wild

Fo would have Patron of the Animal, Patron of the Forest, or Patron of the Wild

Vynora would have Patron of the Crafter, Patron of the Farmer, or Patron of the Ocean

Libila would have Patron of the Animal, Patron of the Cave, Patron of the Crafter, Patron of the Farmer, or Patron of the Wild  (incentive to join BL/Libila?)

 

 

 

I also like Etherdrifter's idea of unlocking a single action/imping/crafting skill for a priest, too.... just not sure if it's really necessary if they are broken into the above limitations.

 

Animal could be .....???

Cave could be .....???

Crafter could be Blacksmithing (little OP maybe?)

Farmer could be Digging

Forest could be Woodcutting

Ocean could be Shipbuilding

Wild could be Healing Cover creation

 

 

Anyway, looking forward to hearing some dev input on this. :) 

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+1 to this change. I think everyone can realisticly say that the current system for player gods is so , so bad. This would be a great change and would not "ruin" the game even more when yet another player becomes a god.

 

Also +1 for converting the current player gods to this.

Edited by whykillme

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I think this is the best way to go, although even if we only get 1 new pmg per year, in 5 years we could run out of all the premade patron spots. I would suggest that players can choose domains that are already taken, so instead of 'demon of fire' they could be named 'spirit of fire' and have the same exact effects as the other guy.

Edited by Kurson

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