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Ayes

Remove Lye From Concrete Creation

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You do not need charcoal piles to get the ash to high QL for making lye.

 

Take as high a QL log as you can find and use a carving knife, make it into kindling.  Do not make planks or anything else, just kindling. The kindling retains the original QL of the log, so a 50 QL log gives 50QL kindling this way.

 

take the kindling and go make multiple campfires.  Harvest the ash.  You will get more ash this way than waiting for the charcoal piles to finish.

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16 hours ago, Ayes said:

I have never seen any "alchemists" around construction sites mixing, pouring and finishing Concrete. Not to mention that comparing Mortar to alchemy has no association either and is mainly used to adhere various brick or stone types together. These guys I know as well would be quite amused to be compared to "alchemists" as they trowel mortar onto their brick/stone walls. Perhaps you might also be surprised that they refer to themselves as Masons; thus, the closest thing that Wurm has to Concrete creation is Masonry. Beyond this, since Wurm is an online game Concrete creation can be formulated in any way desirable.

 

Or more likely avoided by the majority of potential users. To make Concrete creation so tedious as it currently is by adding ingredients to the formulation that involve additional skills that can not be justified on any rational comparison makes little sense. Removing the unnecessary substance of Lye would go a long way towards making this very useful substance more accessible to everyone in terms of the work involved. Let's remember that the main use of Concrete is to correct undesirable problems in mine floors. Keeping the formulation as it currently is will only put off others from making these repairs. In turn my suggestion would in effect make Wurm a better place for all to enjoy.

 

=Ayes=

The guys that make mortar are mostly not the smartest types around and often dont know what alchemy is. If your logic is applied to everything then making a sword gives fighting skill because that is what it is used for and making healing covers is first aid, because that is what it is used for. I never saw an alchemist tout court because that profession does not exist irl. There are enough skills that require other skills, shipbuilding needs ropemaking, cloth tailoring and woodcutting; and cooking requires butchering, farming, and more cooking.

Skills are not defining professions, they are defining actions.

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DOESN'T. Make sense to use lye, but rock shards makes sense, some people - 1ing here - 1 else where because it wasn't realistic, how's lye in concrete realistic? 

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4 hours ago, Mclavin said:

DOESN'T. Make sense to use lye, but rock shards makes sense, some people - 1ing here - 1 else where because it wasn't realistic, how's lye in concrete realistic? 

 

Not sure where this criticism of lye as unrealistic is coming from. Concrete is traditionally made with quick lime, calcium hydroxide CaOH, a strong base (high pH, think 'opposite of acid'). Lye is simply a solution of sodium and/or potassium hydroxide NaOH or KOH, also strong bases and chemically very similar to quick lime. Concrete can be, and as far as I know actually is sometimes made with sodium/potassium hydroxide ('powdered lye').

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21 hours ago, Ayes said:
Quote

Concrete is a composite material composed of coarse aggregate bonded together with a fluid cement that hardens over time. Most concretes used are lime-based concretes such as Portland cement concrete or concretes made with other hydraulic cements...

I have never seen any "alchemists" around construction sites mixing, pouring and finishing Concrete. Not to mention that comparing Mortar to alchemy has no association either and is mainly used to adhere various brick or stone types together. These guys I know as well would be quite amused to be compared to "alchemists" as they trowel mortar onto their brick/stone walls. Perhaps you might also be surprised that they refer to themselves as Masons; thus, the closest thing that Wurm has to Concrete creation is Masonry. Beyond this, since Wurm is an online game Concrete creation can be formulated in any way desirable.

 

Those construction workers also use steel rebar to reinforce their concrete. 

 

New wurm proposed concrete recipe:

 

crushed limestone + kiln = quicklime

 quicklime + water = slaked lime

 slaked lime + sand = lime mortar

lime mortar + gravel = concrete

 

 

4 hours ago, Mclavin said:

DOESN'T. Make sense to use lye, but rock shards makes sense, some people - 1ing here - 1 else where because it wasn't realistic, how's lye in concrete realistic? 

The Romans used volcanic ash along with pebbles/rubble.

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1 hour ago, lolmaster said:

The Romans used volcanic ash along with pebbles/rubble.

And iirc, that concrete was very effective. Waterproof infact.

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Yep, all sorts of elaborate formulas could be dreamt up for creating Concrete. My suggestion was to simply the process thereby making it more attractive for its usefulness. Seems you'ze guys are missing (intentionally?) that point.

 

=Ayes=

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arguing realism for making concrete at all when we combine a pinenut and an apple to make a pineapple ok

 

id like to fix a lot of mine stuff to make it look nice but im not about to go make thousands of campfires.  what logical reason is there for even wanting concrete to stay difficult? is someone fixing their mine with less of a headache that awful?  is it protecting some weird market which is favoring someones wallet over gameplay?  do you make your cereal with a blindfold for the challenge?

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29 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

id like to fix a lot of mine stuff to make it look nice but im not about to go make thousands of campfires.  what logical reason is there for even wanting concrete to stay difficult? is someone fixing their mine with less of a headache that awful?  is it protecting some weird market which is favoring someones wallet over gameplay?  do you make your cereal with a blindfold for the challenge?

The reason to make it stay difficult is so people have that "WOW, they had to this to get this done." Every simplified action goes a long way when that action is involved in bulk items. Sandhill in Exodus for example: What if building buildings changed. What If all you needed was 20 bricks and 20 clay on the ground near you, and 1 fixed 60 second action to build a wall. Then I would look at Sandhill as a much less impressive place. Removing lye from concrete isn't just 1 step. Lye = kindling action + fireplace action + water action = 3 actions assuming you have wood scrap or logs laying around. Mines also don't necessary need "fixing" unless somebody accidentally mined in the wrong direction. The little tilts here and there are still passable by carts, flattening is just to make it look nice. If you want your mine to look nice, it should be like the work to make your house look nice (raising fine carpentry to nice looking furniture, cloth tailoring for banners/tapestries, smithing washing bowls and bird cages). If you want your mine to be functional, it should be like the work to make your house functional (Containers here and there, decent forges and ovens, wooden walls, simple bed). Someone fixing their mine with less of a headache devalues a place, simple enough. It's not about protecting a market. A market is involved with everything somebody would probably want easier to get anyway, so bringing in market is a terrible excuse. Also, the majority of people don't blindfold while making cereal (funny though). We walk to the kitchen, get a bowl, get cereal, get milk, pour the cereal FIRST!, then pour the milk in it. Boom, we have our cereal. People supporting this suggestion want to live in a world like the people in Wall-e do. They want to remove actions out of their life. All you want to do is hover to the kitchen, get your bowl under a cereal dispenser, and press on your favourite cereal on the dispenser's touch screen so it can make your cereal. In other words, take 3 actions out of a previous 6 action task. (I know the actions aren't directly related to the change, but they are similar)

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1 hour ago, Brew said:

Stop the lies ayes!

A very poetic response! Still, yeah I want to stop the Lye's addition. Good to see your statement imp-lies* the same.

 

=Ayes=

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honestly the debate over concrete is so bad, nobody walks through a cave and says 'wow blimey, i bet a lot of concrete was used!' no, not at all, I've done my whole cave dwelling without concrete, 
however, they can appreciate the ceilings being mined up, floor mined down, ramps and other platform chiseled away from the rest of the cave, the reinforcements the floors the extra's added to that, the houses, the lanterns...

Really, nobody thinks about concrete work and tbh with how dodgy making mines can be and a headache, having concrete so stupid to make is dumb.

Who was it that was fighting for Slate pavements/slabs to be made easier? We all saw a lot of +1's there, yet in Zeus people were together making a stupid amount of those, like 300+
it required a dumb founded unlogical unfun and no sense amount for what you got in return, same as concrete imo. 

It's a game people, let's talk about enchanted grass and how I'd rather see pens tended by farmers so i can appreciate the work they put in if you want to talk to me about the appreciation of concrete work.

Edited by Mclavin
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17 hours ago, Yiraia said:

The reason to make it stay difficult is so people have that "WOW, they had to this to get this done." Every simplified action goes a long way when that action is involved in bulk items. Sandhill in Exodus for example: What if building buildings changed. What If all you needed was 20 bricks and 20 clay on the ground near you, and 1 fixed 60 second action to build a wall. Then I would look at Sandhill as a much less impressive place. Removing lye from concrete isn't just 1 step. Lye = kindling action + fireplace action + water action = 3 actions assuming you have wood scrap or logs laying around. Mines also don't necessary need "fixing" unless somebody accidentally mined in the wrong direction. The little tilts here and there are still passable by carts, flattening is just to make it look nice. If you want your mine to look nice, it should be like the work to make your house look nice (raising fine carpentry to nice looking furniture, cloth tailoring for banners/tapestries, smithing washing bowls and bird cages). If you want your mine to be functional, it should be like the work to make your house functional (Containers here and there, decent forges and ovens, wooden walls, simple bed). Someone fixing their mine with less of a headache devalues a place, simple enough. It's not about protecting a market. A market is involved with everything somebody would probably want easier to get anyway, so bringing in market is a terrible excuse. Also, the majority of people don't blindfold while making cereal (funny though). We walk to the kitchen, get a bowl, get cereal, get milk, pour the cereal FIRST!, then pour the milk in it. Boom, we have our cereal. People supporting this suggestion want to live in a world like the people in Wall-e do. They want to remove actions out of their life. All you want to do is hover to the kitchen, get your bowl under a cereal dispenser, and press on your favourite cereal on the dispenser's touch screen so it can make your cereal. In other words, take 3 actions out of a previous 6 action task. (I know the actions aren't directly related to the change, but they are similar)

 

so basically you want it to be a mindnumbingly dumb task so people can be in awe of something they didn't even know was done, got it

i still support qol and gameplay over people thinking concrete being horrible means people will sit there dumbfounded as to how much work you put into making your mine flat

 

question buddy, if i have over 90 mining and all my new cave floors are perfectly flat and dont need adjustment because i grinded mining years ago, requiring 0 work to look nice, why cant i easily fix old mines to look the same?

another question, if i have over 90 mining and mine a 200 tile tunnel that is perfectly flat without needing any work, is this more amazing than a tunnel made 3 years ago with 90 mining but requires thousands of concrete and leveling to be fixed?  how will anyone know the work difference if the end result is the same?

 

this has absolutely nothing to do with wanting all difficulty gone and wanting instant gratification.  this has absolutely everything to do with removing the mindnumbing part to make people actually want to use concrete instead of counting how much they need and saying screw it

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3 hours ago, MrGARY said:

question buddy, if i have over 90 mining and all my new cave floors are perfectly flat and dont need adjustment because i grinded mining years ago, requiring 0 work to look nice, why cant i easily fix old mines to look the same?

another question, if i have over 90 mining and mine a 200 tile tunnel that is perfectly flat without needing any work, is this more amazing than a tunnel made 3 years ago with 90 mining but requires thousands of concrete and leveling to be fixed?  how will anyone know the work difference if the end result is the same?

Its not a mindnumbing task, making a bunch of fireplaces is actually one of the least mindnumbing tasks seeing that it requires movement, at least in my opinion. and if you have over 90 mining, then you have worked very hard to get there and able to make your mine without concrete, congrats!! I will look at the cave and still think its smooth cause of concrete. If you tell me otherwise ill still be amazed cause you have 90 mining.

 

3 hours ago, MrGARY said:

this has absolutely nothing to do with wanting all difficulty gone and wanting instant gratification.  this has absolutely everything to do with removing the mindnumbing part to make people actually want to use concrete instead of counting how much they need and saying screw it

If you want to do that, then you may as well lower the level required for furniture that takes 55+ fine carpentry to make people actually want to use better looking furniture and containers instead of attempting to grind it and saying screw it. Or make brown bear helms craft-able at 1 leather working, so people don't have to spend 1-2 hours grinding just to be within the level range. Lower the paving skill required to make those nice slate roofs. flat tiles aren't necessary for traversing in caves, they just look significantly nicer. 

 

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As much as I want to agree with this, I like how Natural Substance has a high end craft such as concrete. That said, I think there are ways around this issue to make it easier. I can see how ash can be very hard to get if you don't do coal making.

 

How about having forges, kilns, smelters etc create ash from wood usage. There is a mod on WU that works like this, it's nice and simple. 

 

I don't understand why people need to make campfires or make charcoal to collect ash only. 

 

One 24kg log could give  24 ash for example. It's been suggested before.

Edited by Niki

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11 hours ago, Niki said:

One 24kg log could give  24 ash for example. It's been suggested before.

*creates 20 1ql forges*

*light and fuel them all*

*gets 480 ash with no sweat*

... one month later

*Makes a wurm-record mountain*

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Personally I think the solution to having more ash is to enhance the need for coal making such that it becomes more popular.  Seems a better approach to me than to just wave a magic wand and there it is.

 

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22 hours ago, Yiraia said:

*creates 20 1ql forges*

*light and fuel them all*

*gets 480 ash with no sweat*

... one month later

*Makes a wurm-record mountain*

 

It would be the same for everyone, so the people with the most "will" or whatever you want to call it, will still make the biggest mountain.  So the peeps that like to slave away in mindnumbing tasks can still be recogniced for their syndrome/skill.  While the more relaxed players can still get things done without spending that much time just to level a few floors on a mine.

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On 9/9/2017 at 1:10 PM, Ayes said:

My suggestion was to simply the process thereby making it more attractive for its usefulness

If people need concrete they will make it they aren't gonna wait 5+ years till it is simplified.

 

Spoiler

 

 

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3 hours ago, lolmaster said:

If people need concrete they will make it they aren't gonna wait 5+ years till it is simplified.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

The same thing could be said about any fix, or balance fix proposed for the game ever. So what is the point of saying that people wont wait 5 years, or that if people need it they will use it. It makes no sense, we all know the speed at wich suggestions are implemented, if that is a deal breaker, then shut the forums down.

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2 hours ago, Rathgar said:

we all know the speed at wich suggestions are implemented, if that is a deal breaker, then shut the forums down.

The speed varies a lot... but you make it sound like every suggestion takes forever to implement. Smelters were suggested a long time ago and finally made it in at some point, same goes for alcoholic drinks. but bsb racks were suggested and implemented in probably within the same month or 2? I don't think you know the speed at wich suggestions are implemented.

 

On 12/09/2017 at 7:30 AM, Rathgar said:

It would be the same for everyone, so the people with the most "will" or whatever you want to call it, will still make the biggest mountain.  So the peeps that like to slave away in mindnumbing tasks can still be recogniced for their syndrome/skill.  While the more relaxed players can still get things done without spending that much time just to level a few floors on a mine.

plenty of people have this will, and the last thing i want to see are mountains where there used to be plains. I'm all up for buffed coal piles, or maybe even 1 ash when a forge is done by itself. but not 1kg per fuel to pump ash out like crazy.

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Yiraia, I think you should return to the real world to discuss this general topics, if you keep speaking from that wild speculation land you are in, we will never reconcile with the reality of the game.

 

Making concrete a step easier is NOT going to make the few remaining players to turn all their effort into using concrete to raise mountains everywhere, that is a fact, if it wasnt forbidden to gamble, Id bet you on it.

 

If that is your concern and reason to dislike this suggestion, then dont even worry about it, it wont happen, you can +1  this suggestion without fear of mountains cropping up everywhere as a result from it.

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