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Ayes

Remove Lye From Concrete Creation

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Ok then since Smelters will never be allowed to produce high QL Ash (just my pipe dream) I would suggest that the requirement of needing Lye to produce Concrete be removed. Actually I brought this up shortly after the disappointing Concrete creation process was revealed and introduced into the game. Also, Concrete creation should be based upon the Masonry skill, since yea it is in that family and has nothing to do with Alchemy or Natural Substances (Lye does).

 

So for WO standards creating Concrete should only require Mortar and a Rock Shard. Even this is a "compromise" nerf in comparison to *some* WU servers where only Clay and a Rock Shard are required (which I find to be the best solution for a reworked Concrete creation process, although far too offensive for WO standards).

 

There ya have it! Simplify the Concrete creation process within WO. Only Mortar and a Rock Shard should be required. Then y'all can have yer Ash and eat it too. No offense...

 

=Ayes=

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Technically,

Cement is limestone and clay.

Mortar is Cement and sand (twice as much sand per volume)

Concrete is that Cement, and sand with the same mix as Mortar, but add small stones for strength against crushing (the same amount as cement by volume)

There is no lye in cement. This is a misconception because both substances are caustic and have similar irritations to the skin.

 

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What's the problem with getting decent ash?  It doesn't have to even be all that great of a ql if you got a bit of natural substance skill.  It isn't like you got to have 90 coal making to get some ash.  Take it to 50 and use decent wood and you should be fine.

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the trouble is not getting decent ash, the trouble is having a ###### load of decent ash... i'd rather have the option to use mortar on a rockshard to make concrete than having to crank out a crazy amount of coalpiles anytime i need ash (or create thousands of kindlings and lighting them up).

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I like it, 

 

I would personally love to see some sort of trough or container in which you could mix these items, similar to say a cauldron so that as long as the mix levels are correct you can get a batch. 

 

The batch difficulty could be based on how much variance there is in the mixture.  

So say it's 1 liter of water to 0.1 kilo of ash.

Add more water and you increase the difficulty and could potentially get more "concrete".  It would however be at a much lower quality than expected as the batch is basically to watery.

The inverse could be done as well, where you could make a thicker  (higher quality batch) but you end up with less actual concrete because you are focusing on better vs more.

Edited by Tallios

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I used to complain about making concrete it is the worst to make with poor nat sub skills, but once you get natural substance over 65 its easy as pie, who cares about lye quality, its still a long process to make requiring so many components, but unless you are building a mountain, how much do you need?

 

Okay, you can build a mountain, just stock up a lot of ash.

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2 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

but once you get natural substance over 65 its easy as pie.

My priest is at 40~ NS and its pretty easy as well. Concrete is also more accessory than necessary. If you want a nice looking place, you should have the skills to make it at nice as you want. That makes raising firemaking and NS along with the skills everybody raises (masonry, digging). I had little to no trouble making 3 fireplaces worth of ash to make 2 concrete, infact its nice having a bulk item that requires some movement.

 

-1

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15 hours ago, JDBooker said:

There is no lye in cement.

Exactly! Not really sure who dreamt up this WO formulation but more than being inappropriate it adds way too much additional difficulty and work to create the simpler substance of Concrete. With the Rock Shard/Mortar formulation, the Rock Shard would be crushed and the Mortar used as the binding agent (for those needing some sort of RL justification).

 

Now more than ever with the ability to build housing within mines, the Concrete formulation should be modified as I suggested, since mine floors need to be level to even *attempt* to proceed.

 

=Ayes=

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Concrete is a pain with low NS (like me) but really easy with higher. I'm okay with that, the only thing that needs some love is the pile / result ql. That was brought up earlier and Retrograde mentioned it will be looked at - we are there since thenI think :D 

Why should everyhing be supereasy for everyone in WO?

Edited by Jaz
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my main issue with concrete is that you can't flat raise it (40 max slopes requirement), so yes, it's super easy when you are doing small fixes here and there... but as soon as you are working on a major project like a cave canal / underground highways which requires you to tweak the rock layer (you know raising it instead of surface mining trench everywhere), you will need thousands of concrete.

 

Been there, done that, not fun at all to have piles to run for days while making lots of kindlings to keep the production running as well.

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I've found those works are easier for me by collapsing and remining the problematic parts. Not easy as well of course.

The 40 slopes limit is a pain for sure, we still have no means to repair big abandoned flat or worse rockfaces.

 

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+1 remove lye from concrete

 

those that complain it would be too easy probably eat cereal with the spoon upside down for the challenge

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13 hours ago, Jaz said:

the only thing that needs some love is the pile / result ql. That was brought up earlier and Retrograde mentioned it will be looked at

One fortunate thing about Concrete is that the QL of it has no impact upon the success of its application (don't want this nerfed either). A non-issue to be looked at by Retrograde. A pointless distraction (diversionary tactics) from the core creation issue. More to the point is removing the Lye requirement from its creation and an adjustment to make the process more available to all players with even moderate Masonry skill. This in turn will make its beneficial uses more available to all players.

 

=Ayes=

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This was such a Concrete suggestion that I am surprised it has slid down out of view.

 

=Ayes=

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Concrete fits as natural substances, you take multiple materials to make a new one. That is what this skill does. Actualy mortar should be added to this skill as well.

Masonry is construction.

 

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1 hour ago, Chlodovech said:

Concrete fits as natural substances, you take multiple materials to make a new one. That is what this skill does. Actualy mortar should be added to this skill as well.

Masonry is construction.

Good point. Just like mining isn't the skill checked for making and imping pickaxes, there's no (logical) reason either mortar or concrete should fall under masonry.

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If anything making concrete should be on par to how it was made back in the good ol' days. Mine limestone, crush it, heat in a kiln to get that good stuff. Mix the good stuff  with water, sand and gravel.

 

It should be under Alchemy since we don't have chemistry in Wurm. 

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7 hours ago, lolmaster said:

 

If anything making concrete should be on par to how it was made back in the good ol' days. Mine limestone, crush it, heat in a kiln to get that good stuff. Mix the good stuff  with water, sand and gravel.

 

It should be under Alchemy since we don't have chemistry in Wurm. 

+1 seems like a lot of work. Would make projects more appreciated.

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Quote

Concrete is a composite material composed of coarse aggregate bonded together with a fluid cement that hardens over time. Most concretes used are lime-based concretes such as Portland cement concrete or concretes made with other hydraulic cements...

I have never seen any "alchemists" around construction sites mixing, pouring and finishing Concrete. Not to mention that comparing Mortar to alchemy has no association either and is mainly used to adhere various brick or stone types together. These guys I know as well would be quite amused to be compared to "alchemists" as they trowel mortar onto their brick/stone walls. Perhaps you might also be surprised that they refer to themselves as Masons; thus, the closest thing that Wurm has to Concrete creation is Masonry. Beyond this, since Wurm is an online game Concrete creation can be formulated in any way desirable.

 

15 hours ago, Yiraia said:

seems like a lot of work. Would make projects more appreciated.

Or more likely avoided by the majority of potential users. To make Concrete creation so tedious as it currently is by adding ingredients to the formulation that involve additional skills that can not be justified on any rational comparison makes little sense. Removing the unnecessary substance of Lye would go a long way towards making this very useful substance more accessible to everyone in terms of the work involved. Let's remember that the main use of Concrete is to correct undesirable problems in mine floors. Keeping the formulation as it currently is will only put off others from making these repairs. In turn my suggestion would in effect make Wurm a better place for all to enjoy.

 

=Ayes=

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30 minutes ago, Ayes said:

Or more likely avoided by the majority of potential users. To make Concrete creation so tedious as it currently is by adding ingredients to the formulation that involve additional skills that can not be justified on any rational comparison makes little sense. Removing the unnecessary substance of Lye would go a long way towards making this very useful substance more accessible to everyone in terms of the work involved. Let's remember that the main use of Concrete is to correct undesirable problems in mine floors. Keeping the formulation as it currently is will only put off others from making these repairs.

I have seen plenty of people avoid making iron fences, and instead made rock shard fences. I don't see them complaining that it takes too much iron to make iron fences, they just decide to go with the uglier rock shard fences (or they think they look better, but iron fences often have a better appearance). If you are upset that you are bouncing up and down 1-5 slopes in a cave and your path is too bumpy looking, then work for it. If the work is too time consuming and you don't want to make the place look nice, then don't. If you made a HUGE mistake and mined downwards when you were supposed to mine forward, then I understand where you would be more annoyed, but stuff like that seems to be less frequent, and fixing it with concrete shouldn't be much trouble.

39 minutes ago, Ayes said:

In turn my suggestion would in effect make Wurm a better place for all to enjoy.

Your suggestion is the type that leads Wurm into a "build rome in a day" type of game. Wurm unlimited for that, with 10x skill and actions along with clay and rock for concrete here and there.

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55 minutes ago, Ayes said:

I have never seen any "alchemists" around construction sites mixing, pouring and finishing Concrete. Not to mention that comparing Mortar to alchemy has no association either and is mainly used to adhere various brick or stone types together. These guys I know as well would be quite amused to be compared to "alchemists" as they trowel mortar onto their brick/stone walls. Perhaps you might also be surprised that they refer to themselves as Masons; thus, the closest thing that Wurm has to Concrete creation is Masonry. Beyond this, since Wurm is an online game Concrete creation can be formulated in any way desirable.

 

ok bud

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