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Xallo

Fight Fix - Very Detailed Suggestion

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There's been a lot of talk about wanting to fix the fighting system, but I have yet to see an in-depth explanation of how exactly to implement a "better" fighting system, other than a few suggestions, with a lot of them gearing towards reverting the nearly decade-old "fight fix" altogether.

 

In an effort to bring some life into the huge assortment of armours, weapons, and fighting capabilities that we have in Wurm, I am proposing a complete revamp of armours, weapons, and many of the features of the fighting system. Please note, this suggestion tries to be as "Wogical" as possible, with an in-depth reasoning behind why things are the way they are. It's not about giving one or two armours in the entire game the best possible competitive edge, but rather, bringing in a sense of balance, while at the same time keeping powerful armours better for multiple different reasons.

 

Keep in mind, this is a WORK IN PROGRESS, and things will most likely change as the majority sees fit. The numbers are probably not exact, but they should give a good idea of what I'm leaning towards and trying to accomplish.

 

Here's a link to the spreadsheet where things are a bit more colorful and easier on the eye, I suggest reading it alongside the below wall of text:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15Y2oO3-uU-nD_8ubj1bneh2JVuwab9W-lzAhUkh151M/edit?usp=sharing

 

#1 - Base Armour Adjustments

Spoiler
  Cloth Leather Studded Chain Plate (Steel) Drake Hide Dragon Scale Plate (Moonmetal)
100QL Damage Reduction 0.4 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.7 0.7 0.75 0.8
Base Speed (No Helm) 16 15 14 14 12 15 16 12
Hurting Status Speed 15 14 13 13 12 13.5 14 12

 

Damage Reduction, Where 1 = 100% Damage Reduction, Lower = Less Reduction

- At 100 Overall Body, 10% more speed; at 50, 5%; etc...

 

Yes, I understand seeing Leather/Studded/Chain all having the same base modifiers is kind of weird, but look at the following ones in the next few categories to get an understanding of why they are set the way they are. In my opinion, Studded and Chain should be matched, with Leather being a bit weaker, but more mobile.

 

And yes, I understand people want to keep their valuable drake/scale/moon plate "special," so they still are more powerful than the other sets, with some different modifiers below.

 

(On a side note, Leather, Studded, Drake, and Scale can take appropriate quality levels of leather to imp, making it just as difficult as Chain/Plate).

 

The idea here is to create a better balance between armours, and to give some purpose to the “less” used armours. Obviously, Moon Plate and Scale would still be the best protection, followed by Drake and Steel Plate, and then the rest.

 

Scale is still probable to be the most sought after, due to its speed, followed by Moon Plate and/or Drake, depending on scenario.

 

Studded, Leather,  and Chain are matched because they give differing bonuses and/or buffs explained further.

 

Hurting statuses are set in such a way where it’s about the same or very close to the base speed of the armour lighter than it. Plate does not have a hurting status difference due to its heaviness.

 

 

#2 - Armour Glance Rate Adjustments

Spoiler
  Cloth Leather Studded Chain Plate (Steel) Drake Hide Dragon Scale Plate (Moonmetal)
Glance Rate - Slash 0.15 0.25 0.3 0.25 0.3 0.3 0.25 0.3
Glance Rate - Pierce 0.1 0.15 0.2 0.25 0.3 0.2 0.3 0.3
Glance Rate - Maul 0.15 0.2 0.25 0.25 0.1 0.3 0.25 0.2
Glance Rate - Bite 0.15 0.25 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3
Glance Rate - Arrows 0.1 0.1 0.2 0.25 0.25 0.2 0.3 0.25

 

Glance Rate, Where 1 = 100% Glance Chance, Lower = Less Glancing

 

Glance rates are set logically according to differing attack types.

 

They are also set in such a way that all the different weapons in the game become more useful.

 

Because leather has the same base damage reduction as studded and chain, it will receive more damage based upon differing damage types, and glance less to make up for the easiness of crafting.

 

 

#3 - Armour Damage Modifications

Spoiler
  Cloth Leather Studded Chain Plate (Steel) Drake Hide Dragon Scale Plate (Moonmetal)
Damage Mod - Slash 1 0.9 0.85 0.9 0.85 0.85 0.9 0.85
Damage Mod - Pierce 1.1 1 0.95 0.9 0.85 0.95 0.85 0.85
Damage Mod - Maul 1 0.95 0.9 0.9 1.1 0.85 0.9 0.95
Damage Mod - Bite 1 0.9 0.85 0.9 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85
Damage Mod - Arrows 1.1 1.1 1 0.9 0.9 0.95 0.85 0.9

 

Damage, Where 1 = Base, Lower = More Reduction

This would be divided onto the base damage reductions above.

 

100QL Steel Plate which has a base reduction of .7, getting hit by a maul, would have a formula of .7/1.1=.63 Reduction, which is worse.

100QL Steel Plate which has a base reduction of .7, getting hit by a spear (pierce), would have a formula of .7/.85=.82 Reduction, which is a boost.

 

100QL Dragon Scale which has a base reduction of .75, getting hit by a maul, would have a formula of .75/.9=.83 Reduction, which is a boost.

100QL Dragon Scale which has a base reduction of .75, getting hit by a spear (pierce), would have a formula of .75/.85=.88 Reduction, which is a boost.

 

100QL Studded which has a base reduction of .6, getting hit by an axe (slash), would have a formula of .6/.85 = .70 Reduction, which is a boost.

100QL Studded which has a base reduction of .6, getting hit by a maul, would have a formula of .6/.9 = .66 Reduction, which is a boost, but less than slashing.

100QL Studded which has a base reduction of .6, getting hit by an arrow, would have a formula of .6/1 = .6 Reduction, which is the same as its base reduction.

 

Similar to glance rate percentages, but it actually gives damage buffs and de-buffs depending on damage type.

 

 

#4 - Damage Enchant Modifications

Spoiler
  Cloth Leather Studded Chain Plate (Steel) Drake Hide Dragon Scale Plate (Moonmetal)
Enchant Mod - Fire D*P* .3 D*P* .2 D*P* .2 D*P* .2 D*P* .3 D*P* .2 D*P* .15 D*P* .2
Enchant Mod - Frost D*P* .3 D*P* .2 D*P* .2 D*P* .2 D*P* .3 D*P* .2 D*P* .15 D*P* .2
Enchant Mod - Rotten D*P* .3 D*P* .3 D*P* .3 D*P* .2 D*P* .2 D*P* .25 D*P* .2 D*P* .15
Enchant Mod - Venom D*P* .15 D*P* .15 D*P* .15 D*P* .1 D*P* .1 D*P* .1 D*P* .1 D*P* .1

 

Enchants, Where D = Afflicted Wound Damage * Power of Cast * Mod (Higher the Number, Higher the Damage)

Similar to damage modifiers, enchant modifiers would actually give a purpose to the various kinds of weapon enchants.

 

For example, fire and ice would hurt plate wearers more than someone wearing leather, but in return, rotten touch would do more damage to leather than plate wearers.

 

The “Wogic” behind it would be that more porous armours would be less susceptible to ice/fire enchants, and more susceptible to rotten enchants. Similarly, less porous armours would be more hurt by ice/fire enchants due to more conductivity, where rotten enchants would more likely “leak away” and damage less. Also, Venom is essentially half of RT because of its chance to kill over time.

 

 

#5 - Archery & Casting Difficulty Modifications

Spoiler
  Cloth Leather Studded Chain Plate (Steel) Drake Hide Dragon Scale Plate (Moonmetal)
Archery Chance Modifier 1 1 1 1 0.75 0.85 0.85 0.75
Casting Chance Modifier 1.1 1 0.85 0.85 0.75 0.75 0.75 0.85

 

Difficulty, Where 1 = Base, Lower = More Difficulty

 

Casting and Archery would be modified based upon the armour type. This is in an effort to make wearing lighter armours more attractive.

For example, if you’re wearing studded or chain, you could fire a bow better than someone wearing plate.

 

 

#5 - Shield Modifications

Spoiler
  Slash Slash Slash Maul Maul Maul Slash/Pierce Slash/Pierce Slash/Pierce Pierce Slash Maul
  Small Axe Large Axe/Sickle Huge Axe/Scythe Small Maul Medium Maul Large Maul Short Sword/Knives Longsword Huge Sword Spear (Medium) Halberd Staff
Small Metal Shield 1.1 1 0.9 0.9 0.8 0.75 1 0.9 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.75
Medium Metal Shield 1 1.1 1 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.9 1 0.9 1 0.9 0.8
Large Metal Shield 0.9 1 1.1 0.75 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.9 1 0.9 1 0.9
Small Wooden Shield 0.9 0.8 0.75 1.1 1 0.9 1 0.9 0.8 0.9 0.75 0.8
Medium Wooden Shield 0.8 0.9 0.8 1 1.1 1 0.9 1 0.9 1 0.8 0.9
Large Wooden Shield 0.75 0.8 0.9 0.9 1 1.1 0.8 0.9 1 0.9 0.9 1

 

Shield Block Chance Modifier, Where 1 = Normal Block Percentage

There is a (already calculated above) 10% Bonus to Blocking Against Logical Weapons

There is a (already calculated above) 10% Reduction to Blocking Against Logical Weapons

All shields have same base block percentage, as well as same block radius.

Metal shields keep opponents bashed 20% longer, Wooden shields have 20% more chance to shield bash.

ALL SHIELDS HAVE A MINIMUM BLOCK TIMER OF 2 SECONDS IN DEFENSIVE, 3 SECONDS IN NORMAL, AND 4 SECONDS IN AGGRESSIVE. SKILL DETERMINES SUCCESS.

 

This is in an effort to make the different shield types more attractive. Larger shields would be able to block larger weapons easier because they cover more surface area, and theoretically, larger weapons swing slower, thus allowing time to block. Likewise, a smaller shield would be more useful against a smaller weapon because it’s much easier to time the block than with a large shield, where a small weapon could much easier find a way around the larger shield.

 

 

#6 - Fighting Stance & Weapon Modifications

Spoiler
  Damage Mod Pole Dmg Mod Damage Mod Weapon Speed Mod (Applied to the next 3 columns) Small Weapon Speed Medium Weapon Speed Huge Weapon Speed Shield Block Speed
Aggressive Fighting 1.1 1 1.1 -1s 2s 3s 4s 4s
Normal Fighting 1 0.9 1 0s 3s 4s 5s 3s
Defensive Fighting 0.9 0.8 0.9 +1s 4s 5s 6s 2s
  Inflicted Inflicted Received   Axes Axes Axes  
  Exclude Poles Includes Poles     Mauls Mauls Mauls  
          Swords Swords Swords  
          Knives Spear Halberd/Staff  
            Sickle Scythe  

 

Damage, Where 1 = Base, Lower = Less Damage

Speed, Where 0s = Base, Lower = Slower

 

Scythes, Sickles, and Knives become viable weapons.

Spears changed to a medium weapon, allowing a shield to be worn. It acts as a weapon that does solely pierce damage.

Polearms do 25% extra damage to mounted opponents, and animals that are mounted.

 

ALL WEAPONS SHARE THE SAME DAMAGE, SPEED, AND PARRY VARIABLES RELATIVE TO THEIR SIZE

(BUT, POLEARMS TAKE DIFFERENT DAMAGE MOD ABOVE).

 

Short Sword = Small Maul = Small Axe = Knives | Longsword = Medium Maul = Large Axe = Spear = Sickle | Huge Sword = Large Maul = Huge Axe = Scythe = Staff = Halberd

Artifacts do 25% more damage based upon their weapon class. Artifacts have 25% more chance to parry. The Scale has 50% more chance to block.

GLIMMERSTEEL = 20% Speed Bonus, Applies to All Weapons

ADAMANTINE = 20% Damage Bonus, Applies to All Weapons

SERYLL = 10% Damage & 10% Speed Bonuses, Applies to All Weapons

 

 

#7 - Dual Wielding

Spoiler
  Primary Speed Primary Dmg Off-Hand Speed Off-Hand Dmg Primary Parry Off-Hand Parry
Dual Wield 1 1 0.5 1 1 1
Weapon + Shield 1 1 - - 1 -

 

Damage, Where 1 = Base, Lower = Less Damage

Speed, Where 1 = Base, Lower = Less Speed

 

Dual wielding is viable to those who care more about DPS than defense, but is not overpowered.

 

 

#8 - Aiming/Protecting

Spoiler

Aiming at an area gives a 1.1 modifier to successfully land a hit.

Protecting an area gives a 1.1 modifier to evading hits overall, plus another 1.1 modifier to blocking hits in the protected region.

Protecting an area gives a .5 modifier to successfully landing a special move, but does not entirely block it.

 

 

#9 - Body Part Damage Effects

Spoiler

Fun Stuff (Calculated after all of the above):

Damage on the left arm, left shoulder, or left hand reduces block and shield bash by 10%. Does not stack with multiple hits.

Damage on the left hand and right hand reduces chance to hit by 10% on that particular hand, and reduces damage done by 10% on that particular hand. Does not stack with multiple hits.

Damage on the face, eyes, or head reduces chance to evade a hit by 10%. Does not stack with multiple hits.

Damage on the feet, legs, or crotch reduces speed by 5%. Does not stack with multiple hits.

Damage to the torso, chest, or neck reduces carrying capacity by 5%. Does not stack with multiple hits.

 

 

THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ON PRIESTS/GODS, SO PLEASE KEEP THE DISCUSSION ON PLAYER GODS/ETC OUT OF THE TOPIC.

THIS IS PURELY ABOUT FIGHTING AND THE MECHANICS BEHIND IT.

 

Also, there is no poll because I want this to be a discussion, not a simple vote for or against without any explanation.

 

So, with that, please keep the discussion open-minded, and please try to refrain from thinking too biased.

 

If I missed anything, please feel free to point it out, and give an opinion on it if you have. :)

 

Thanks, and comment/suggest away! :D

Edited by Xallo
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Too much to read atm but off the bat in case it matters, "moon metal" you have would only refer to glimmersteel/seryll, where adamantine has the same dr as scale

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8 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

Too much to read atm but off the bat in case it matters, "moon metal" you have would only refer to glimmersteel/seryll, where adamantine has the same dr as scale

 

I understand, but I think all three should be the same to avoid complications. Now that they are all dropped in various different scenarios on all servers, it's a bit complicated to separate their usage, especially considering the speed and weight penalties of steel in comparison to scale.

 

Unless, you think adamantine is a lot more abundant than glimmer/seryll, that it doesn't deserve the same protection?

 

 

Edit: And on that topic, I forgot to mention that in regards to weapons.....

 

I suppose adamantine should provide about a 20% damage boost, glimmersteel should provide about a 20% speed boost, and seryll should provide about 10% of both speed and damage?

Edited by Xallo

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ah didn't realize it was meant to all be the same, if anything seryll would be the most abundant though comparing a fresh start in gathering if hota is not counted

 

I think the max dr from moon metal should be on par with scale as the base dr at that point is incredible.  Maybe they all could be 75% but have different other properties of some sort, like how addy on weapons adds damage, glimmer is faster, and seryll in general is shatter proof

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29 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

ah didn't realize it was meant to all be the same, if anything seryll would be the most abundant though comparing a fresh start in gathering if hota is not counted

 

I think the max dr from moon metal should be on par with scale as the base dr at that point is incredible.  Maybe they all could be 75% but have different other properties of some sort, like how addy on weapons adds damage, glimmer is faster, and seryll in general is shatter proof

 

Well, I kept it as it is in-game, for the most part. I think it's relatively fair considering the scarcity, upkeep, and speed of the armour in general.

 

Alternatively, if they are set at 75%:

Glimmersteel = 10% faster walking speed (13.2 km/h)

Adamantine = 20% glance increase

Seryll = 5% faster speed (12.6 km/h), 10% glance increase

 

And in general, I think all moon stuff could be either 100% shatter-resistant, or at least extremely shatter-reduced.

Edited by Xallo

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12 hours ago, Xallo said:

 

And in general, I think all moon stuff could be either 100% shatter-resistant, or at least extremely shatter-reduced.

 

Making it shatter resistant will just make it even more common than it already is due to rifts.  This stuff never leaves the economy once it enters, so with a steady supply expect it to be saturated before long.  With seryll, its shatter resistance comes with a dubious list of other benefits.  (really only good for plate armor)

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Random shatter is a horrible way to remove stuff from the economy. If you want it regularly removed from the economy, give people a reason to sacrifice rare or moonmetal items.

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0.85 damage mod is too low for any armor, thats what plate has right now to maul and it makes it so weak.

plus drake has no mod over 1?

I think the current damage mods are find with the exception of plate which should be 0.9 or 0.95 to maul

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2 hours ago, Threap said:

0.85 damage mod is too low for any armor, thats what plate has right now to maul and it makes it so weak.

plus drake has no mod over 1?

I think the current damage mods are find with the exception of plate which should be 0.9 or 0.95 to maul

 

There are no damage mods in the game atm.

 

The base armour reductions are set pretty much as they are now in WO.

 

Also, the damage mod is inverse. The lower the damage mod, the less damage it takes.

 

Edit: Added clarifications....

100QL Steel Plate which has base reduction of .7, getting hit by a maul, would have a formula of .7/1.1=.63 Reduction, which is worse.

100QL Steel Plate which has a base reduction of .7, getting hit by a spear (pierce), would have a formula of .7/.85=.82 Reduction, which is a boost.

 

100QL Dragon Scale which has a base reduction of .75, getting hit by a maul, would have a formula of .75/.9=.83 Reduction, which is a boost.

100QL Dragon Scale which has a base reduction of .75, getting hit by a spear (pierce), would have a formula of .75/.85=.88 Reduction, which is a boost.

 

100QL Studded which has a base reduction of .6, getting hit by an axe (slash), would have a formula of .6/.85 = .70 Reduction, which is a boost.

100QL Studded which has a base reduction of .6, getting hit by a maul, would have a formula of .6/.9 = .66 Reduction, which is a boost, but less than slashing.

100QL Studded which has a base reduction of .6, getting hit by an arrow, would have a formula of .6/1 = .6 Reduction, which is the same as its base reduction.

Edited by Xallo

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i'm sorry but if they want to do the game right they need to just fix the armors flat. ill tell you right know movement is no diff from leather/chain/plate in real life if the armor is made for u and fits right. the main diff is how strong are you.

chain is the heaviest. but overly all best vs slashing.  ok at piercing  poor at mauls (unless back by leather.){like alot of highql chains sets where made back in the day.}
plate vs slashing glances alot but it dents the armor to the point it can start to lower movement of your body's parts that's why mauls work so good on plate. and Piercing on plate is just silly u have to have hard anof blow and hit at 90deg to even  get past the armor.
normal leather is a joke its ok slash is better at mauling because it spreads the load around.and just you out right dies to Piercing
Studed Leather is oh must as good as chain at slashing. mauling little worse then normal leather{unless they  did the 2 layer trick then its better} and still outright sucks at piercing

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+ to what icbash said.

I believe the only non-annoying change would be making it all work just like IRL. But of course it would be annoyingly complex then and also is a hell of a job that nobody has done before, probably.

 

@Xallo, i wouldn't try to judge your numbers, but can you explain what is behind them, how did you get to these numbers? Imo that's even more important.

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12 minutes ago, zigozag said:

+ to what icbash said.

I believe the only non-annoying change would be making it all work just like IRL. But of course it would be annoyingly complex then and also is a hell of a job that nobody has done before, probably.

 

@Xallo, i wouldn't try to judge your numbers, but can you explain what is behind them, how did you get to these numbers? Imo that's even more important.

 

They're based off a combination of real-world logic, with a sense of balance. I tried to make chain the "norm" balanced armour with giving two alternate versions (studded and leather) with the same base protection with different damage/glance mods. I thought it would be a good idea to make LW'ing more useful beyond Drake, and give a purpose to Leather/Studded because nobody ever uses them in PvP (or chain, really).

 

I understand if they're not exactly in-line with what we could assume is real-world logic, and it may be a bit skewed, but overall, it was more about trying to create a sense of balance between all of the armours and weapons, while taking some input from real-world logic.

 

Anyway, with that said, the numbers may not be exact, but the balance between the numbers and what armours are better/worse against weapon types, the speeds of the armours and weapons, etc, I hope makes at least somewhat sense in the grand scheme of balance and logic. :P

 

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3 hours ago, Xallo said:

 

They're based off a combination of real-world logic, with a sense of balance. I tried to make chain the "norm" balanced armour with giving two alternate versions (studded and leather) with the same base protection with different damage/glance mods. I thought it would be a good idea to make LW'ing more useful beyond Drake, and give a purpose to Leather/Studded because nobody ever uses them in PvP (or chain, really).

 

I understand if they're not exactly in-line with what we could assume is real-world logic, and it may be a bit skewed, but overall, it was more about trying to create a sense of balance between all of the armours and weapons, while taking some input from real-world logic.

 

Anyway, with that said, the numbers may not be exact, but the balance between the numbers and what armours are better/worse against weapon types, the speeds of the armours and weapons, etc, I hope makes at least somewhat sense in the grand scheme of balance and logic. :P

 

i feel leather and chain should be same moment speed as plate* if over 30str. moon metal get the bust ya talking about drake=leather with 10%moment /10% damage reduction /10%glance.(% can be changed)   scale same bonus over plate. would still be king but put it in line with make them all about level playing field all  just being what do u want higher def in slash pierce or mauling. would love to see leather and chain on the battle field with out get owned

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13 hours ago, icbash said:

i feel leather and chain should be same moment speed as plate* if over 30str.

 

I agree on the strength and was considering suggesting it, but I chose not to because I felt that it would give an unfair advantage against newer players trying to get into PvP. It would be yet another requirement to PvP, essentially.

Edited by Xallo

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17 hours ago, Xallo said:

 

I agree on the strength and was considering suggesting it, but I chose not to because I felt that it would give an unfair advantage against newer players trying to get into PvP. It would be yet another requirement to PvP, essentially.

not if leather/chain same def rating as plate just dif weakness's
with out 30str its only 10% loss in speed

Edited by icbash
hit enter to soon

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