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Ayes

Smelters Should Produce Ash

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I would suggest that Smelters produce Ash as they burn wooden fuel. The QL of the Ash should be the same as the Smelter QL. The amount of Ash produced should be based upon how it works on some WU servers (Sklotopolis for example). In this way Smelters can be lit and used specifically for this purpose if desired.

 

Unlike the Charcoal Pile they will not produce Charcoal and Tar, so will offer no alternative for obtaining those items. By restricting this Ash making to Smelters it will avoid Forges and Ovens spamming up the server with mass amounts of Ash which might lag the servers (as has happened in WU). Campfires can still remain as is to create their minimal amount. I am thinking of this suggestion in terms of an alternative to creating larger amounts of Ash which are necessary to create Concrete, as well as used for Leatherworking purposes.

 

Yes, great idea! I know. Thanks.

 

=Ayes=

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-1 

 

I don't see a point, really. Smelters have their use. Adding a gathering use to them would make them extremely profitable. Getting ash from an already useful tool serves no purpose and would create an inbalance. They don't decay like campfires and coal piles do.

 

If you want ash, make coalpiles and campfires.

 

Edited by Angelklaine
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+1

 

 

To hell with usefulness of campfires and coalpiles. One is basically an exploit and the other one is stupidly ineffective in all measures.

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14 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

-1 

If you want ash, make coalpiles and campfires.

 

While I agree with you to a point, one is AFK producer one is 1 per one maker.

 

Could we have campfires make ash until it is "full" at which point it burns out naturally?

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14 hours ago, zigozag said:

to hell with usefulness of campfires and coalpiles. One is basically an exploit and the other one is stupidly ineffective in all measures.

Then why not suggest bumping ash creation from coal piles.

 

-1

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Another benefit of my suggestion is that it would eliminate the need to create Charcoal Piles for the purpose of producing a larger amount of Ash over time. This in turn reduces server lag from a large number of them (Charcoal Piles) burning over a few days time. A good point then for Devs to consider.

 

Remember, Charcoal Piles do basically the same thing I am suggesting for Smelters to produce Ash and yet they create 3 ingredients at once. Smelters would only create Ash, which if anything makes Charcoal Piles overpowered in comparison and yet they are endorsed as being fine and dandy. Strange eh?

 

=Ayes=

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You lazy people, trying to bring some unrealistic rules, like getting ash after burning wood.

 

+1

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+1

Not sure but I can't really imagine there's a huge market for ash that this would throw into imbalance.  I like the mod in WU when I've seen it.

 

@Ayes

Question:

You put 100 ores in the smelter, light, and wait for your iron lumps.  Smelter is full.  Where does the ash go?

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20 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

+1

Not sure but I can't really imagine there's a huge market for ash that this would throw into imbalance.  I like the mod in WU when I've seen it.

Concrete is 1s per 100, I can imagine it going down to 20c per 100/1s per 500 if ash can just magically appear out of smelters. Imagine how much easier it would be fueling an 8 by 8 array of smelters with 1 log each, rather than using around 20 logs to make a pile.

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I'd love to see the price on concrete drop,

I'd also love for it to be easier to make as I tunnel across a mountain atm and only neat way to do it without (mending with) concrete is to  mine up and then level the floor

+1

 

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5 hours ago, Ayes said:

Another benefit of my suggestion is that it would eliminate the need to create Charcoal Piles for the purpose of producing a larger amount of Ash over time. This in turn reduces server lag from a large number of them (Charcoal Piles) burning over a few days time. A good point then for Devs to consider.

 

Remember, Charcoal Piles do basically the same thing I am suggesting for Smelters to produce Ash and yet they create 3 ingredients at once. Smelters would only create Ash, which if anything makes Charcoal Piles overpowered in comparison and yet they are endorsed as being fine and dandy. Strange eh?

 

=Ayes=

Charcoal piles are not the source of any lag on the server

 

Global warming however. 

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Charcoal piles are not the source of any lag on the server

 

Global warming however. 

they have particles, if you make then in large numbers they WILL drop your FPS, I belive thats what Ayes was refering to as "lag".

 

4 hours ago, Yiraia said:

Concrete is 1s per 100, I can imagine it going down to 20c per 100/1s per 500 if ash can just magically appear out of smelters. Imagine how much easier it would be fueling an 8 by 8 array of smelters with 1 log each, rather than using around 20 logs to make a pile.

The price of concrete going from 1 twig down to 1/4 twigs is no reason to modify anything in-game.  If it becomes too easy or too hard to make for the benefit it provides, then it should be fixed. We can use the market price to gauge how important players consider such item.

 

But other than that, I dont think the internal market should ever need to be brought as a stand alone reason to promote or deny a fix or feature.

 

Edit: Also, ash wouldnt magically appear, but it would stop magically disapearing, you burn stuff, you got some kind of ash left behind.

Edited by Rathgar
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This would only work if the ash was low QL (maybe smelter QL/10).

 

If you want high QL ash, either grind firemaking or coalmaking.

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low ql ash makes sense, this would just be a byproduct of a fire anyway. Maybe base the ql on fuel ql. But then why wouldn't forges and ovens do the same thing? what's so special about a smelter?

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16 hours ago, Kurson said:

But then why wouldn't forges and ovens do the same thing? what's so special about a smelter?

 

Because my suggestion was to restrict Ash creation to Smelters for the reasons mentioned. Also, NO to Smelters producing low QL Ash. It should be based upon the QL of the Smelter and produced at a rate as suggested in the OP.

 

Even with high QL Ash making Concrete with it is prone to numerous failures, since rather than basing Concrete creation on Masonry skill (which makes more sense and actually is on *some* WU servers), Concrete creation is based upon Alchemy and Natural Substances skills in WO. Another odd and odious addition to the Concrete creation process.

 

Of course there is a much simpler solution to Concrete creation as again exemplified on *some* WU servers but rather than having any hope that Lye will be removed from the Concrete creation process in WO, I would at least like to see the burden eased somewhat with the implementation of this OP suggestion. The suggestion should also be implemented as I suggested and not watered down and nerfed as several in this thread have mentioned.

 

=Ayes=

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5 hours ago, Ayes said:

NO to Smelters producing low QL Ash.

 

Why no to producing low QL ash? We already have means of getting high QL ash.

 

Grind up the respective skills. Coalmaking isn't too bad since you can level up woodcutting at the same time. Just use the junk logs to skill up on.

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Is there a tool.that makes high quality anything for you without taking skill into account? I think skill should always be what determines the quality for you, not the tool used.

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QL of ash from coalpile is QL of coalpile.

QL of ash from campfire is QL of campfire.

 

I think, right?

 

Maybe Ayes's logic is that QL of ash from smelter is QL of smelter?

 

Permanence of the smelter does make it different though.  Still, there are far far more intrusive mechanics that pass with minimal input.  How, when or why your neighbor gets their ash for their personal projects that have no effect on you doesn't really seem like it should be a huge deal.

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30 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

Permanence of the smelter does make it different though.  Still, there are far far more intrusive mechanics that pass with minimal input.  How, when or why your neighbor gets their ash for their personal projects that have no effect on you doesn't really seem like it should be a huge deal.

 

Personal projects, sure. But for people who are in, say, the concrete selling business this could cripple their profits.

 

There are avenues for getting high QL ash out there. It requires a bit of work, but almost everythign in Wurm requires "a bit" of work.

 

Forgive me if this is wrong, but this seems like a pretty blatant appeal to get something (high QL ash) without putting in the work for it.

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25 minutes ago, Hailene said:

 

Personal projects, sure. But for people who are in, say, the concrete selling business this could cripple their profits.

 

There are avenues for getting high QL ash out there. It requires a bit of work, but almost everythign in Wurm requires "a bit" of work.

 

Forgive me if this is wrong, but this seems like a pretty blatant appeal to get something (high QL ash) without putting in the work for it.

 

I think this is just something that showed up on WU, and for those who have tried it, it's been a great idea. 

 

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of keeping a status quo on account of profits.   I wish I knew more about economics though.  If a component used to make a product becomes cheaper and more readily available, does that necessarily depreciate the value of the final product?

My gut kinda says no.  If Apple can streamline their manufacturing process, that doesn't make an iPhone cheaper (unfortunately), it just increases their profit margin.

If someone making concrete for sale can more easily make high QL lye, they can more easily make their concrete.  Since they deal in volume, they can crank out their orders faster.

The person buying concrete could already make their own currently, but they don't want to deal with the volume.  I would think they'd still be going to their concrete supplier...?

 

I've never used high QL ash myself.  I've always made do just fine with low QL so I don't necessarily agree with the OP on it having to be high QL.  However, not my suggestion, not my call.

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Once i was on a coal making spree and i still have thousands of ash around 60ql from that. It's more of a by-product than anything the way it's created now. Maybe there should be some way to make it directly but also take skill into account like fire making and woodcutting. Or other types of 'piles' like one dedicated to making huge ammounts of ash?

 

Bottom line being i don't think anyone likes 10x10 fields of fires or more

Edited by Kurson

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11 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

Personal projects, sure. But for people who are in, say, the concrete selling business this could cripple their profits.

 

 

###### them, they should get a real job. 

 

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14 hours ago, Reylaark said:

I wish I knew more about economics though.  If a component used to make a product becomes cheaper and more readily available, does that necessarily depreciate the value of the final product?

My gut kinda says no.  If Apple can streamline their manufacturing process, that doesn't make an iPhone cheaper (unfortunately), it just increases their profit margin.

 

It does when everyone had the skill and capability to make cellphones at home. Why would you go pay $700 for the latest iPhone when you can make just about the same phone at home for a tiny bit of effort?

 

4 hours ago, Rathgar said:

###### them, they should get a real job. 

 

Yeah. Just like everyone else who gets paid silver or real life currency for stuff in game.

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23 hours ago, Hailene said:

Personal projects, sure. But for people who are in, say, the concrete selling business this could cripple their profits.

 

True, making one's own Concrete will eliminate the expense of purchasing it from others; thus, reducing the demand for it and in turn decreasing the profits of those who create it to sell to others. Same thing as making one's own bricks rather than purchasing them from others. The difference is in the ease of creating bricks in comparison to creating Concrete due to the complexities of the process which depend upon one major impediment of obtaining decent QL Ash. Then you still need to create Lye from it, which is still not easy mode, to use for Concrete creation or Leatherworking.

 

21 hours ago, Reylaark said:

I think this is just something that showed up on WU, and for those who have tried it, it's been a great idea. 

 

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of keeping a status quo on account of profits.   I wish I knew more about economics though.  If a component used to make a product becomes cheaper and more readily available, does that necessarily depreciate the value of the final product?

 

Exactly. Smelters, forges and ovens create an overabundance of Ash on *some* WU servers, which is tied to the QL of these items that produce it. My OP was an attempt to temper down this Ash abundance by restricting it to Smelters which are much harder to create and improve than forges and ovens. Also, Smelters aren't used that often in comparison to forges and ovens and with my suggestion it would give them an additional use. The Ash creation through Smelters could then be adjusted independently to tune it more to WO standards without the nerf stick making it marginally worthless per some comments here.

 

The game mechanics should not be adjusted in terms of players being able to make more silver/RL currencies but rather to make the game more enjoyable and economical to play by its players. I see my suggestion as fulfilling that *option* to assist in players creating high QL Ash for their own use, not to sell it off to others, for which it takes no consideration of silver/RL currency earning capacity. These are two adversarial positions, one to protect profits and the other to improve accessibility and reduce game expenses. Of course Wurm enables this conflict by enabling the ability to make RL convertible profits from playing the game. Let's just not get carried away here by eliminating and reducing the ability of players to *avoid* paying for game items which they would prefer to create themselves.

 

WU is all about tailoring the game's QoL options per player enjoyment of playing the game. WO could learn from this and add at least a little bit of it to their branch of Wurm.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
add s
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