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Baramor

Freedom skills to epic

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-1, Freedomers are safe from harm and able to do grinding as much as they want without the harm of others (unless they don't deed their stuff). If you want skill on epic, you should earn it with the risk they offer there. If you want to pvp with your skill, chaos is available.

 

*slips this in here*

 

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On 8/29/2017 at 1:13 PM, Daash said:

- 1 Cant see how it would work, what happens when you return to pve/pvp servers again ? 

 

Epic where created for those who wanted a fresh start or a quick skillgain game so i think it should stay that way.

 

Stay which way? Dead? Realistically there's no valid, rational or any type of reason not to allow the few remaining epic players which at best will number in the 40 people (and that's an overly optimistic number) to transfer their skills to freedom. One of the reasons Epic is dead is because players Believe Epic is dead. It's a sort of self fulfilling prophecy phenomenon where perceptions create reality. No new players or old players come to Epic because they think it's dead. Many other reasons are involved like unbalanced PvP mechanics, meta armor, high entry barrier to pvp, etc. I'm not gonna talk about those, no point. 

 

So let's assess options shall we : 

1. Epic eventually is closed and epic players can move to freedom without any skills transferred . This is a terrible idea that will alienate loyal players for a few reasons; a) Many epic players have invested years and a lot of $ into the game as well as Time to grind skills. You think skillgain on epic is 50000 times faster than freedom ? It's not. People have been playing for a long time on epic as well and they do deserve better treatment for their loyalty to the game than just being ignored. 

b ) It's more a reiteration of the same argument. If you close down epic or keep it in the dark as it is right now and don't allow players to transfer their skills to freedom then you're basically saying to the Epic playerbase " Thank you for investing years into this game, thank you for your work and loyalty to the game but now unfortunately we'll just delete all your hard work, skills and items you've worked towards because we don't want you to play on freedom with decent stats, despite often times enduring shitty moments of losing your gear, your deeds, all your work, etc. If you wanna continue playing, start over from 0 on a freedom server. Enjoy." 

 

2. Epic is not closed and nothing changes, situation remains.....tragic.

 

 

3. Epic is closed, and epic players can transfer skills to Freedom. This is a tricky one. You'd have to devise a proper and damn good math equation to figure out how to properly transfer those because you also have to keep the Epic curve in mind where after a certain point, skillgain is similar to freedom. Which creates problems. It's not as simple as "well epic has 50% faster skillgain so we'll simply cut down the skills they got over time taking in mind they should have had them at level similar to freedom over the course of years". It's not simple, there are many factors involved and needs a few good math wiz heads to figure that one out. 

 

As for Freedomers porting over skills to Epic, i'm all for it really. What people keep forgetting to mention in these discussions, which are becoming endless , is that EPIC And Freedom are part of the Same Game.  We are all wurmians and if Epic is treated poorly , then it also affects the rest of the playerbase even if you don't realise it yet. 

 

Figure out a way to properly transfer skills or just transfer them as they are because in the end, people have sacrificed an insane amount of time (and sanity) to get those skills, that gear, those items, to build those beautiful deeds, and so on. For me at least this will be the last MMO i'll ever play, nothing will come close to it in scope and adventures so I'll just say this. 

 

Developers and players, please remember this is a game we all love. Remember that it DOES not hurt to mention Epic in a new Valrei International news update once on a while, at least to let us know you aren't just sweeping us under the rug like a bit of dirt no one wants to clean. At least let us know what you're plans are if any, because which each update, like highways and crate racks, we all (as epic players) feel more left out of the game more than anything else. 

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Allow both servers to cross to each other but don't carry over items. Only allow silver [already done] and when logged from 1 cluster, allow to regain SB on that cluster whilst playing on the other.

We really need to remove the gap that separates our communities and most importantly creates a difficult choice for new players joining a game, freedom or epic.
It will also stop situations where if one cluster goes very quiet, atm epic...You don't have to stay and suffer because you don't wish to regrind on a different server. 
the option is really put up with a dead server and pay for dead content or quit, guess what most of us do? We quit. So keep us around, have us pay prem, most will happily do it on a different cluster.

Many people quit Epic because there is no 'saftey' for them to just sometimes chill and people from Freedom want to go try a pvp cluster but they don't because it requires a restart of their account and to grind again...
This is the biggest issue with new players...'It takes time to grind' so why would somebody who has already done that grind want to do it again? remove this requirement.
Yes they could go chaos but this is a very old map and within itself it has became stale from age alone and it's daunting for freedoms to travel to, but we should open up a portal to allow freedom players to cross to Chaos too and giving the people their a chance to go from freedom to chaos with more ease, not a 2 hour travel with possible death. 

I believe that this will also provide a small boost in both servers as players will be crossing over to each other more often, freedom will see a small market boost with Epic players looking to spend their silvers on tools and resources if building on freedom
and epic will see a small market boost in what is considered 'dead loot' as freedom will be looking to spend their silvers on pvp gear on epic.

But most importantly that wall is removed. I would preffer this over any reset or character wipe or destroying epic or chaos to 'merge'...I would rather keep it all open but allow ALL to cross to and from anytime giving us all the option to pvp or freedom it as we please!

Edited by Mclavin
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Agreed with Mclavin. The barrier that separates epic and freedom now does more harm than good. 

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

Agreed with Mclavin. The barrier that separates epic and freedom now does more harm than good. 

53 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Agreed. I cant think of a reason why this door remains locked.

I can't speak for everybody, but i would imagine that it would be an immense turn off. Its the exact reason I had left salemthegame and joined wurm, There were a good amount of overpowered players that got where they were because they played when there were no risks (They always had pvp but started with a small population). The amount of people in Epic that have this huge boost is already a slight turn off, but allowing people that already have 90+ skills in freedom would just kill the whole mood. Grinding with your resources at risk should be a part of epic. If people really have an issue with starting from 1 again, then bump up the xp gain more, and increase the skill loss when dead.

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Half merge to get people onto both clusters at the same time?  Take the cooking affinity fix for an example, it's an optional thing that anyone can use or remain without it but once used it is permanent

 

One time permanent use character merge.  Use it from the cluster you are on that you want to keep, and it overwrites and links the other cluster.  Skills, affinities, tomes, karma, titles, sb, everything tied to the account itself is properly linked on both clusters, 1:1 no modifications both ways.  If you gain 2 points in blacksmithing on freedom from 70 to 72, epic gained 2 points as well from 70-72

 

Now all the invested players on epic can try out freedom as a getaway or play chaos in the meantime while epic is in a slump, or freedomers/chaos players can try out epic in an attempt to have some fun

Since it is only an opt-in character merge and not a full merge, nothing is lost, and those accounts with the complicated situation of different skills/tomes/etc per cluster can remain as is for now

 

Again I don't see why anyone should give a heck about what they think is faster to grind a skill or easier or whatever.  It's wurm, whatever cluster it is it's still the same game, where people can just buy accounts and get 70-90 body strength instantly.  It's also more important to secure the future of the game rather than have petty arguments over differences in skillgain

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12 hours ago, MrGARY said:

Half merge to get people onto both clusters at the same time?  Take the cooking affinity fix for an example, it's an optional thing that anyone can use or remain without it but once used it is permanent

 

One time permanent use character merge.  Use it from the cluster you are on that you want to keep, and it overwrites and links the other cluster.  Skills, affinities, tomes, karma, titles, sb, everything tied to the account itself is properly linked on both clusters, 1:1 no modifications both ways.  If you gain 2 points in blacksmithing on freedom from 70 to 72, epic gained 2 points as well from 70-72

 

Now all the invested players on epic can try out freedom as a getaway or play chaos in the meantime while epic is in a slump, or freedomers/chaos players can try out epic in an attempt to have some fun

Since it is only an opt-in character merge and not a full merge, nothing is lost, and those accounts with the complicated situation of different skills/tomes/etc per cluster can remain as is for now

 

Again I don't see why anyone should give a heck about what they think is faster to grind a skill or easier or whatever.  It's wurm, whatever cluster it is it's still the same game, where people can just buy accounts and get 70-90 body strength instantly.  It's also more important to secure the future of the game rather than have petty arguments over differences in skillgain

I agree with this. I personally think maybe remove home servers, keep 1 epic pvp server with the curve and going thru the portal should bring everything over except items. So it will in my mind:

1. Put all the pvp players in 1 server.

2. Make it benefitial for people to try out pvp - extra skillgain and easier to lower the cap

3. Play either Pve or Pvp and no double grinding

 

Those are my 2 cents. I would personally prefer if chaos and epic will be shut down and 1 pvp server would merge with only way to get there would be the epic portal.

So close 2 pvp servers, make 1 server and skills/tomes/titles shared on both clusters(silver also) and items seperated. Keep the epic curve on it. Everyone knowing the curve understands that it only makes a difference until i think 70 skill for easier skilling. After that it actually becomes a pain in the ass. 

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They should unite both PvP communities, and then cut them off from freedom.  No more complaining about people hiding loot, or about raiders stealing uniques, most griefing in freedom would stop, and all the PvP folk can play together on an even ground.  I know its an unpopular position, but it would be so good.

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9 hours ago, Rathgar said:

They should unite both PvP communities, and then cut them off from freedom.  No more complaining about people hiding loot, or about raiders stealing uniques, most griefing in freedom would stop, and all the PvP folk can play together on an even ground.  I know its an unpopular position, but it would be so good.

Why do you believe that cutting pvp off from freedom would stop any of that?

 

>No more complaining about people hiding loot

Merchants and alts

 

>raiders stealing uniques

Wouldn't cutting pvp off from freedom just increase the intensity of unique hunting?

Deeds, expansions, res stones, various equipment, etc are usually all funded by kingdom funds that come from sales/statues/kingdom stuff/whatever

By severely limiting the ability to trade those things, i'd imagine people would go for uniques on freedom even harder to fund their kingdom

 

>most griefing in freedom would stop

I have no clue why you think it would have any effect at all

Most pvp players already play on freedom either by sailing over there or using an alt, this wouldn't change after cutting it off

There will always be people that grief, there's just no way to stop it

 

>and all the PvP folk can play together on an even ground.

just gonna ignore this part lol

 

idk why I even responded to you, guess I got triggered one too many times by your anti-pvp posts

 

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@Retrograde@Budda

I've spoken to 'disgruntled' ex epic players and freedom players who have left, 13 to be infact and they all love this idea.

Remove the barrier of choice and forced grind between wanting to play both, that is all.

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9 hours ago, Mclavin said:

I've spoken to 'disgruntled' ex epic players and freedom players who have left, 13 to be infact and they all love this idea.

Remove the barrier of choice and forced grind between wanting to play both, that is all.

That doesn't say much. If you were alone, wouldn't you be desperate to play with anybody too?

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It reinforces Mclavin's point. As long as the Barrier Epic/Freedom is in place, Epic will simply become a dessicated husk where only random spiders and crocs will roam those few hundred abandoned ruins, highways and roads. 

 

Coming from an alliance which, 4 years ago, had on average 20-40 different players per day in the ally chat, now we're around 5-6 different people per week. Seeing anyone in local or chats has become my highlight of the day.

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Some players plays in both clusters, merge the skills keeping the higher. Money is the same for both cluster, right?
Even can keep the thing of not tranfer/mailing stuff between cluster, epic is dying anyway, maybe this could get some people move.

 

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I disagree to this, skills on epic as well as the tomes are not the same time required as on freedom servers.

 

There is no way to make this work that players would be satisfied on either side.

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I have to admit that I am a relatively new player who did not realize that Epic was a less popular choice during character creation, so that's where I landed.  I am glad I did.  For all the discussion on the forum about it being a dead server, there always seems to be a someone online who is willing to chat.  And the established Players have been extremely helpful and friendly, once they were convinced I was not a spy.  There is lots of space to build and explore. 

 

Sure I think having extra people on the server could be great, and I can see how breaking down the wall between clusters might help promote that.  I'm not adverse to the idea.  And I don't want to leave anyone with any illusions - if you're looking for a large, active local community, Epic's not it.  There are plenty of quiet times.  But just speaking as someone who has spent the past six months learning the game and building a presence on Epic, I have to say that I am having a fantastic time.  And I certainly don't see myself leaving any time soon.

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6 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

I disagree to this, skills on epic as well as the tomes are not the same time required as on freedom servers.

 

There is no way to make this work that players would be satisfied on either side.


you're right, im kinda mad i spent 4x longer getting 70 meditation on epic than freedom but I can deal with that and the barrier being removed for all wurm players out weighs my small anger over having a slower gain.

But seriously, epic players have been around long enough to pass the average freedom grinder and we done it all under pvp conditions, including tomes.
Our generation is slowly dying, I'm thinking about who we got left and the new generation coming in. 

People don't want resets or servers deleted or full merges where clusters are shut behind us, this is the only fair way for all of the players in game, give players the choice where when and how. 

How does forcing a player to choose which community he wants to play, barring him from the other unless he wants to do 2x the grind help anything?
You have Many great players just leaving the game because they're stuck on a dead cluster simply not paying for their 2-3 accounts and leaving wurm. 
You have many great players who would like to go to epic and try the different, awesome mechanics that Epic can provide, but don't want to grind again. 

Long live wurm. Break The Barrier!!!

 

Edited by Mclavin

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Re JackRIvers comment

 

People seem to think that it's straight out easier skill gain in Epic.  But it's a curve, it's only easier in the very beginning. then it evens out and compensates even later on.  I have heard that in very high levels, definitely after 90, it is actually an easier grind on Freedom.  I'm not sure about mage achievements through tomes, as these are related to "things", maybe they should be left on Epic server and not carried over, to make it more fair.  It may upset some Freedomers alright...

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31 minutes ago, Rumi said:

Re JackRIvers comment

 

People seem to think that it's straight out easier skill gain in Epic.  But it's a curve, it's only easier in the very beginning. then it evens out and compensates even later on.  I have heard that in very high levels, definitely after 90, it is actually an easier grind on Freedom.  I'm not sure about mage achievements through tomes, as these are related to "things", maybe they should be left on Epic server and not carried over, to make it more fair.  It may upset some Freedomers alright...

After 70

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According to my logs, as one of the initially far more active Epic players that partook in the game of "easy valrei", it took me from the addition of sorcery to Epic in summer 2013 until Sept of 2015 to get Arch Mage, which is 9 tomes that's more than 2 years.  In Aug 2016 I finished using all tomes, more than a full 3 years of constantly doing missions trying to win to end the nerding, and spending around 400k+ karma in guiding gods in the easy valrei gameboard

 

Yet when the tomes were added to Freedom, Epic still knew hardly anything about tomes and ended up learning information about them from Freedom, and within months iirc maybe even sooner Freedom had multple Arch Mages, and all Freedom had to do was stare at a unique for 10 minutes per tome

 

I would certainly hope there would be zero discrimination in allowing used tomes to cross both ways.  It would even allow Freedom to try getting tomes the "easy" way, go ahead and have fun

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2-3 years on epic, average amount of missions - 3 tomes through Kingdom efforts not personal wins. 

Thats 1 tome per year and they're red tome, green tome and white tome. 

Moves to chaos for 1 year - we've had / seen more tomes through uniques than my whole time on epic. 

Edited by Mclavin
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4 hours ago, MrGARY said:

According to my logs, as one of the initially far more active Epic players that partook in the game of "easy valrei", it took me from the addition of sorcery to Epic in summer 2013 until Sept of 2015 to get Arch Mage, which is 9 tomes that's more than 2 years.  In Aug 2016 I finished using all tomes, more than a full 3 years of constantly doing missions trying to win to end the nerding, and spending around 400k+ karma in guiding gods in the easy valrei gameboard

 

Yet when the tomes were added to Freedom, Epic still knew hardly anything about tomes and ended up learning information about them from Freedom, and within months iirc maybe even sooner Freedom had multple Arch Mages, and all Freedom had to do was stare at a unique for 10 minutes per tome

 

I would certainly hope there would be zero discrimination in allowing used tomes to cross both ways.  It would even allow Freedom to try getting tomes the "easy" way, go ahead and have fun

While I certainly wouldn't debate that point, I do remember the screaming from epic when tomes started dropping on freedom and the huge nerf hammer that then dropped on them. I gotta chuckle at that now. Ya know, since we actually kill our uniques...

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Must be nice having more than 3 people around to enjoy killing uniqes... even if ours dont give tomes...

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