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JakeRivers

New Highway system and KOS (kill on sight)

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I dont understand why the 3 tile away from perimeter addition to the rules is needed. It wasnt needed for the prior GM enforced system. Why now? 

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Because that's where kos extends into ,and with a mechanical solution as opposed to a manpower solution it's easier all around. There were still many cases of players using KoS over legitimate highways, and countless issues with griefing. This system replaces that and eliminates possible abuses of the kos system.

 

If you wish to use kos to keep people away, it's as simple as not routing a highway directly on to your deed. 

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I'm gonna counter this new rule with an old old old rule.

 

People are responsible for their reputation, and as was mentioned in this thread, there are more than a few jokers who find nothing more amusing than griefing perimeters which has a way of ending with a ruling against the deed owner for some reason (including one known repeat offender given CA rank and whatnot, don't PM me about it unless you're someone in staff willing to properly look into it for a change).

 

You wanna use a certain highway?  Don't piss off people in the area.

 

Wrongly KoS'ed?  You had no plans to stay in the area to do bad stuff anyways and anyone can outrun a templar.

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im just going to drop a 1silver deed outside my deed so it can be part of highway system. so i can still kos people.

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8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

There were still many cases of players using KoS over legitimate highways, and countless issues with griefing.

 

Then why we're these players warned, then banned?

 

 

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9 hours ago, Mordraug said:

I'm gonna counter this new rule with an old old old rule.

 

<Ego snip>

 

Oh man he used the holy rite of precedent. That has never been overturned. Well, guess the feature has to be rolled back.

 

Anything else on the agenda for automating GM duties? I'm all for automation. Give people back their time to relax and enjoy themselves or come up with weird event stuff.

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Easy solution PvE solution:

 

Give a player auto-travelling a flag (autotravel=true), if a player has auto-travelling set to true templars ignore them.  If their destination is a deed they are KoSed at, warn them that they are KoSed for that deed and ask them if they want to continue, then have them stop on the tile next to the perimeter of that deed (should be easy enough to code) rather than at the end of the highway.

 

This would allow folks to keep their KOS, but not use it to block highways.  The only rub is that "gated highways" would have to be impossible (reasonable sacrifice).

Edited by Etherdrifter
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47 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

should be easy enough to code

 

Lol 

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Well the game must log when you enter a perimeter you are KOSed on, otherwise the templars/guards would not respond.  Thus all you need to do is check for the flag (which are you doing anyway to make the guards ignore them), if they have the auto-travelling flag then check their destination and compare it with the deed the guards due to move in belong to.  If they are the same stop movement, scan the 8 surrounding tiles around the player for one outside the perimeter, automove the player to the one with the least slope difference.  Job done.

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You could crack open WU and take a look for yourself how kos works. Empower yourself!

 

That is a lot of unnecessary checks though.

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8 hours ago, Zerocool said:

You could crack open WU and take a look for yourself how kos works. Empower yourself!

 

That is a lot of unnecessary checks though.

 

There is probably a smarter way to do it.

 

I spent long enough in there finding the various spell mechanics and getting the context for them to make sense!

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Good! If you get in the habit of taking a peek at the logic whenever you get curious about how something works or if something is possible, you will learn a lot. Even if you don't find what you are looking for, you will get more familiar with how the project is structured and you will find it becomes easier to navigate and to read over time.

 

You can do a whole bunch of checks to accomplish a block of logic, but just because you can see the logic in your head being possible doesn't make it simple. The more state you have to track, the more bugs you will have. Your code will become increasingly complex and less readable as you patch that out. You want the next guy who maintains your code to want to hug you, not shank you.

 

Internally, they probably aren't checking every tile that you step to for permissions every time. They probably have a callback set up to have whatever manages player movement inform whatever manages deed security that a check is relevant to run. You could piggyback off of that a bit by passing the flag about auto travel and doing the comparison just in part of the callback. You don't need to be looking backwards in time through logging to figure out if you should be doing something now. You don't need to move the player, you just need to stop them and maybe present a warning on starting the trip. You don't need to check what guards should be responding to, let the existing logic handle that. If you can keep the server side logic to "if they are gonna do the bad, don't let them do the bad" and then make it the client's responsibility to convey why, the server won't have to do the legwork and can get back to servicing the next operation for someone else.

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12 hours ago, Zerocool said:

You want the next guy who maintains your code to want to hug you, not shank you.

 

I think wurm's code has passed that point of shankability already; it's fastly approaching an invitation to vivisection.

 

You do make a good point though, I must admit that most of my experience with programming is dealing with non-standard logics.  Client-Server interaction is something I am still learning (and I am very much in favour of the maxim "never believe the client"), but a lot of the logic could be done by the client since (in this situation) we're more concerned with the world's actions upon the player (sudden death by templar if you AFK at the wrong moment) and not their actions upon the world (the player is just auto-moving to a set location via a series of waypoints).

 

The only thing that would likely be server side would be the initial warning and then interceding to prevent templars from killing people passing through a deed they are KoSed on.  The rest could be done via the client because the server already tells it all it needs to know.

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15 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

I think wurm's code has passed that point of shankability already; it's fastly approaching an invitation to vivisection.

 

I said your code not the existing code. If you touch it you own it. You become "they guy" to ask about how it works. You want your code to be the easy part to read. Don't touch the parts you don't need to change unless you spot a bug.

 

15 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

but a lot of the logic could be done by the client

 

Any time you are performing checks that influence server side behavior, you wanna do them on the server side if at all possible. You cannot trust your client for a number of reasons.

 

Keep the problem small down to what it is. You are looking to prevent an existing behavior given a flag as input. The reasonable place to start is where the behavior is already being triggered.

 

 

Edited by Zerocool

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Maybe we could try to move all the general programming discussion away from this thread and return to the original topic? ;)

 

 

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Please, lets keep it on topic guys.

 

On that note, I would like to see if anyone has started using the catseyes and how hard are they to remove once planted?

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Today I went to reset our Village MOTD and I couldn't because there was a previous KOS, and I could not change the MOTD until I removed our past KOS.  I find that a bit disturbing.  While our village is on a 'road' like many are, we have none of the new highway mechanics in place, and I find it a bit intrusive that we have to redesign our politics just to change our message of the day.  

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8 minutes ago, Dorian said:

Today I went to reset our Village MOTD and I couldn't because there was a previous KOS, and I could not change the MOTD until I removed our past KOS.  I find that a bit disturbing.  While our village is on a 'road' like many are, we have none of the new highway mechanics in place, and I find it a bit intrusive that we have to redesign our politics just to change our message of the day.  

 

You should report this as a bug. I'm sure it's not intentional.

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1 minute ago, Yaga said:

 

You should report this as a bug. I'm sure it's not intentional.

Okies, will do!

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1 hour ago, Dorian said:

Today I went to reset our Village MOTD and I couldn't because there was a previous KOS, and I could not change the MOTD until I removed our past KOS.  I find that a bit disturbing.  While our village is on a 'road' like many are, we have none of the new highway mechanics in place, and I find it a bit intrusive that we have to redesign our politics just to change our message of the day.  

 

First thing I did with my village was tick off the KOS box, maybe that step was required first.

 

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Although it is stated that the perimeter is no man's land, traditionally, only asshats or complete noobies would go messing around in someone's perimeter.  I would prefer people not make a highway three tiles from my deed and in effect taking my right to KoS away on my own deed.  If they do that, they will be deemed asshats and prone to griefing.  There should be a clear understanding that for any road built in a deed's perim, the owner's right to KoS will not be affected.  There should be no reason for anyone to sit around in a deed's perim if they are close enough to get the KoS messages.  They should just move right along, they are not welcome there.  Any highway in perim should not affect  a deed owner's right to KoS.  

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I hadn't thought of that. So if someone builds a highway on my perimeter or 3 tiles from it, where there was not a road before, I am required to give up my kos rights or move? That seems quite unfair.

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